Tier List Speculation

[DrinkingFood]

Edited with an analogy

 

[Bleck]

I think it's pretty clear what I meant by 'featureless'.

 

[DMG]

I'm a pretty smart dude, and even I am lost

...

Are you calling bald people hairy?

WW platforms: I know it adds those things, but those are lame anyways! It's begging for people like Zard to stick out moves, see what sticks, and basically GG you beyond a respectable death.

 

[DrinkingFood]

WW platforms: I know it adds those things, but those are lame anyways! It's begging for people like Zard to stick out moves, see what sticks, and basically GG you beyond a respectable death.

NERF
BUFF
PATCH
BAN WARIO WARE
ADAPT

I think it's pretty clear what I meant by 'featureless'.

featureless has too strong a connotation for FD, the only thing"less" FD is is platformless.

 

[DMG]

I'm not playing Charizard, Bowser, or DK just to redeem a stage. It could just be a better stage without being too cheeky m8

 

[Bleck]

don't stop until every stage is battlefield

 

[DMG]

Ew Battlefield

Why can't we all be Marth brothers on Yoshi's?

 

[Frost | Odds]

1v1
no items
ice climbers only
rainbow cruise

 

[DMG]

1v3
Ganon Only
Smash games are banned, must CP with Zelda games

 

[Bleck]

Can we give Marth his Brawl side special back? It's so much more fun.

 

[Zx2963]

Can we give Marth his Brawl side special back? It's so much more fun.

What's the difference between his Melee one?

 

[TreK]

It links better
But isn't a killmove

....that's the jist of it anyway. Brawl marths use it as their primary ground punish move since it's frame 4, and, more importantly, it counts as 4 distinct moves in the stale queue (staleness is very important to keep track of in brawl)

 

[Deleted member]

marth with brawl side b would just get CC'd sooooooo hard

 

[Zx2963]

It links better
But isn't a killmove

....that's the jist of it anyway. Brawl marths use it as their primary ground punish move since it's frame 4, and, more importantly, it counts as 4 distinct moves in the stale queue (staleness is very important to keep track of in brawl)

So the damage doesn't decrease as fast when used in Brawl?

 

[shairn]

Remove top platforms from WW

Now MarthWare

I dig it

 

[trash?]

shoutouts to skyloft's massive hatred for not being a flat lower platform with patterned top platforms, tho

stage tier list speculation, gogogo

 

[Circle_Breaker]

I love skyloft when playing as sonic cause you can take first stock and run away so ****ing hard all day no problem

 

[InfinityCollision]

I like Skyloft. Partly because some of my characters can do interesting things with the angled surfaces, partly for variety's sake, partly because most people hate it.

 

[shairn]

I wish Skyloft was at least symmetrical so I could dtilt camp on both sides of the stage.

 

[Ogopogo]

I like Skyloft. Partly because some of my characters can do interesting things with the angled surfaces, partly for variety's sake, partly because most people hate it.

Bruh as a Wolf and Kirby player I enjoy taking advantage of angles. Especially Skyloft and Yoshi's Island. Not so much Lylat because ledges

 

[Circle_Breaker]

That feeling when you **** up a wavedash on the edge of lylat or yoshi's and SD.

Also guys I think sheik is still high tier because, well, reasons.

 

[1FD]

Fun question.
Since EVERYBODY IS HIGH TIER and almost everyone could be TOP HALF and it wouldn't be a big deal...
Who are the characters that are FOR SURE IN NO WAY AND BASICALLY NO CHANCE of being TOP HALF in the game?

 

[Player -0]

Jigglypuff..?

 

[Pseudomaniac]

Fun question.
Since EVERYBODY IS HIGH TIER and almost everyone could be TOP HALF and it wouldn't be a big deal...
Who are the characters that are FOR SURE IN NO WAY AND BASICALLY NO CHANCE of being TOP HALF in the game?

Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Ganondorf, Ness, Luigi. There's some debate on whether or not Kirby, Squirtle, Olimar, and Toon Link should be bottom tier as well.

Thing is, despite being bottom tier, most of these characters can still do decently in a lot of matchups. Even though they're weak compared to the rest of the P:M cast, they're pretty tough compared to most of the Melee cast.

 

[DMG]

Fun question.
Since EVERYBODY IS HIGH TIER and almost everyone could be TOP HALF and it wouldn't be a big deal...
Who are the characters that are FOR SURE IN NO WAY AND BASICALLY NO CHANCE of being TOP HALF in the game?

Luigi, ROB, G^W, Ganon, Squirtle, Olimar, D3. Some chars would fall in the bottom half, but there's a ton of good characters near the middle so falling a few placements short might not mean much anyways. These would probably be near the lower end of bot half though.

 

[didds]

buff squirtle
make him bowser weight

 

[Comprehend13]

Fun question.
Since EVERYBODY IS HIGH TIER and almost everyone could be TOP HALF and it wouldn't be a big deal...
Who are the characters that are FOR SURE IN NO WAY AND BASICALLY NO CHANCE of being TOP HALF in the game?

If everyone is high tier the tiers need to be normalized. If everyone is super then no one is [see Syndrome, The Incredibles].

 

[jtm94]

Meh, maybe changing my mind a tad. GnW, Squirtle, and Olimar I think have potential to start to break into mid with time. We're at a good point where honestly no character or extremely few characters needs direct help to make them viable. In time as the strengths of top characters gets toned down the lower tiers will inherently be buffed because they can now compete on a more level playing field.

I still believe GnW is bad because he has MUs that he will always at least have a hard time with considering his moveset. Basically what I mean is that he will lose to certain characters no matter what unless he is made not GnW or super GnW, neither of which I want. He has a hard time with any form of projectile, and most of them are so fast or lagless that bucket can start to be baited and punished. He loses even harder to non energy projectiles.... Diddy, Link, Tink, etc. Also bad against swords because of inferior disjoint, but his projectile helps against fatties and characters without disjoint.

Squirtle has really interesting movement and creative super armor. His DownB can put in work especially if recoveries are normalized and I find some really fun use with most of his moves.

Olimar has weird recovery, and it doesn't necessarily go far, but I have seen Olimars go deep and make it back. It just sucks his recovery is contingent on his pikmin not falling away. He also has to put extra time into micro-managing his pikmin in order to get optimal moves, but that honestly may not be that bad because imo his good pikmin are REALLY good and his bad pikmin really aren't that bad/have a redeeming quality.

 

[BluntedMask]

Olimar has so much potential. If your pikmin didn't randomly fall out of order while offstage it wouldn't be that terrible.

 

[1FD]

For sure to the whole characters falling a few places short of middle might not mean much. Hence the question of who VERY LIKELY won't crunch that mid-way mark on any possible development is probs da bess question that we can answer to figure out who's ACTUALLY lower in the game.

Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Ganondorf, Ness, Luigi. There's some debate on whether or not Kirby, Squirtle, Olimar, and Toon Link should be bottom tier as well.

Thing is, despite being bottom tier, most of these characters can still do decently in a lot of matchups. Even though they're weak compared to the rest of the P:M cast, they're pretty tough compared to most of the Melee cast.

So all of the ones you listed, do you see ANY of them maybe being at a point where they can/will be -doing decently in a lot of matchups- enough to be above 50% of the cast?
You think some of them are more destined to be below the 25% mark than others/if so, who?

Luigi, ROB, G^W, Ganon, Squirtle, Olimar, D3. Some chars would fall in the bottom half, but there's a ton of good characters near the middle so falling a few placements short might not mean much anyways. These would probably be near the lower end of bot half though.

Same to you. Of those chars, any of them stand out more than others as not even making it above the 1/4 of the cast area?

Meh, maybe changing my mind a tad. GnW, Squirtle, and Olimar I think have potential to start to break into mid with time. We're at a good point where honestly no character or extremely few characters needs direct help to make them viable. In time as the strengths of top characters gets toned down the lower tiers will inherently be buffed because they can now compete on a more level playing field.

I still believe GnW is bad because he has MUs that he will always at least have a hard time with considering his moveset. Basically what I mean is that he will lose to certain characters no matter what unless he is made not GnW or super GnW, neither of which I want. He has a hard time with any form of projectile, and most of them are so fast or lagless that bucket can start to be baited and punished. He loses even harder to non energy projectiles.... Diddy, Link, Tink, etc. Also bad against swords because of inferior disjoint, but his projectile helps against fatties and characters without disjoint.

Squirtle has really interesting movement and creative super armor. His DownB can put in work especially if recoveries are normalized and I find some really fun use with most of his moves.

Olimar has weird recovery, and it doesn't necessarily go far, but I have seen Olimars go deep and make it back. It just sucks his recovery is contingent on his pikmin not falling away. He also has to put extra time into micro-managing his pikmin in order to get optimal moves, but that honestly may not be that bad because imo his good pikmin are REALLY good and his bad pikmin really aren't that bad/have a redeeming quality.

Jigglypuff..?

Settles it

Highest Chance of not being higher in the giant PM mid-tier
#1 Ganon
#2 Jiggs ? / D3 ?
#3 Squirt ? / GW ? / Oli ?
#4 Luigi ? / ROB ? / Ness ? / TL ?

^Which of those characters are MOST LIKELY to make it above the 50% mark? (Even it's NOT LIKELY AT ALL there's still a most-likely)
Which of them are the least likely?

 

[Ripple]

DDD has the best chance of being good if recoveries plan on being nerffed

 

[DMG]

Yes, mortals should fear the almighty hammer

 

[TheDuckChris]

Highest Chance of not being higher in the giant PM mid-tier
#1 Ganon
#2 Jiggs ? / D3 ?
#3 Squirt ? / GW ? / Oli ?
#4 Luigi ? / ROB ? / Ness ? / TL ?

^Which of those characters are MOST LIKELY to make it above the 50% mark? (Even it's NOT LIKELY AT ALL there's still a most-likely)
Which of them are the least likely?

I would say most likely to be top half out of those is probably TL if his recovery isnt nerfed. Really a great and interesting character that isnt as polarized as some of the others on this list (Jiggs, D3, Luigi/Squirtle, Ness) or as mid-tier (ROB). Most of the others just remind me of melee mid-high tiers (not top 7) which in this game means you're bottom half.

 

[Paradoxium]

Gimme a break, why the hell would toonlink be bottom tier? At the least he would be solid mid tier.

 

[Deleted member]

What's the difference besides more stages not being FD?

larger stages, not necessarily dominating smaller stages like YS/FoD/ weird CPs like skyloft, and yes even more stages being not FD.

It was stupid head umberon

i don't know what you're talking about, but coming from you it's probably wrong.

 

[mimgrim]

I will never understand the stigma of Toon Link being a bad character. It just doesn't make sense and I have yet to see anyone give an actual good reason as to why he is "bad". Like really, he has a great recovery, a good combo game, a good projectile game that helps out his combo game, good kill power, he has a good speed to him, and is pretty mobile.

.....How is he possibly bottom half?

I also fail to see how Ness or Oli are bottom half. But meh, at least they make more sense then Toon Link.

 

[Vashimus]

If you're a bad character, you're in the bottom half of the cast.
If you're in the bottom half of the cast, it doesn't automatically mean you're a bad character.

Squares and rectangles.

 

[DMG]

Cheese and Biscuits

Post warning edit: Shadic is not a fan of cheese or Biscuits I see

 

[GP&B]

But he is a fan of salt kappa

 

[Bleck]

Can we give Marth his Brawl side special back? It's so much more fun.

Seriously, though.