Lots of quoting of others, so if you don't wanna read all of my post, just read what I've quoted from ya.
Whenever you're using jump art, you always need to be careful with your second jump because it's your only way with recovering horizontally with jump art Shulk.
Objection!, we also have our amazing drifting speed along with fall speed to use for recovering horizontally.
WELL, the thing with air slash is that although with jump art, it is a good recovery but it has issues with sweetspotting the ledge and because of this, some characters can actually hit Shulk before he can even grab the ledge (Greninja and Mario's water specials, Some meteor smashes if timed right, d-tilts, some d-smashes, etc).
This issue can be alleviated with several of these remedies:
1. Master Jump art's Air Slash height by being within very close distance of the ledge in order to ledge-snap with the 2nd hit's input
2. Use an aerial while you're Doublejumping towards the ledge & utilize the aerial's FAF so that you can buffer inputting Air Slash's 1st hit to instantly snap to the ledge. In your case with B-air, let's use B-air for the aerial example
3. Delay the Air Slash from recovering low as much as you possibly can. Jump art increases the vertical height to both hits of Air Slash, so it's definitely doable to use this remedy over the others if you're dealing with a move possessing a wind-box
How about mixing up between either double jumping to recover high, air slash to recover from low, or a rising b-air? I mean, b-air does beat everything and for as long as you mix it up between double jumping, and recovering, you're opponent may not expect it despite being frame 18. Main issue with this is of course, frame 18. If they don't get confused, you will get shielded and you will be punished afterwards. Basically, use rising b-air (with jump art) with the same mentality when you're using b-air for basically anything. That mentality being: "Use b-air when your opponent does something"
Personally for me, it kinda depends on the opponent's position near the ledge, watching them & recovering with the
Jump art active. On one hand that the opponent is very close to the ledge but waiting patiently until I'm at about mid-way level with the ledge, I stay cautious but if the character has a slow run speed, I opt to Doublejump over them & drift towards the center stage. Those slow running characters include:
or
Now, in the case that the opponent is near the ledge but won't commit to going off-stage and / or doesn't have any formidable tools to use against me recovering from low, then I'm going to recover from the mid-low - very low range. What I do here is input a rising Doublejump + whichever aerial that isn't N-air or D-air, but N-air & D-air can get a use although it's very seldom. Anyway, I'd always say do F-air or B-air for mid-low & U-air from very low. F-air is for covering ourselves from mid-low because it allows Shulk to immediately snap to the ledge by using the FAF that is 41 by using Air Slash as soon as the F-air finishes. As for U-air from very low, it's a given considering that U-air is like using an airborne U-smash protecting directly above us, & that I use a rising Doublejump + U-air to poke through the lip / stage's ledge area in order to deal unsuspecting damage or hit their bubble shield telling them, "respect me & get away from my ledge".
I wouldn't say that B-air being that it's frame 18 is the issue 'cus frame 18 is when I would say the hitbox takes place in front of Shulk, which has terrible horizontal range.
Frame 19 or perhaps Frame 20 is probably when the solid
Blade 12% occurs behind Shulk. But, the thing with using B-air as a coverage move similarly to using F-air from mid-low I would say is dependent on Shulk's direction he's facing obviously, & whether the opponent has already respected our ledge-space or not. B-air has a very thin hitbox from behind, so it doesn't outdo F-air's wide coverage since F-air has a worthy hitbox that begins almost directly above Shulk that I use for poking through the stage's lip area. So B-air's sourspot taking place on the Frame 21-22 window while also having more horizontal hitbox range than F-air, I'd use B-air to poke the opponent standing on the floor to make them respect our ledge even more
(My friend I play offline tells me that Shulk's B-air is the "pokey" with good reasons XD. I've done this kind of situation frequently to the point that we can't even see the B-air attack because it's stabbing through the stage hitting the character within range nearby). Now as far Shulk's direction he faces goes, it most likely varies on the attack or throw that launches off-stage since there are throws that launch us facing towards the blastline such as Villager's & Shulk's B-throw. Jigglypuff's B-throw does this too so I'll just say that B-throws have this common launch effect, as well as any other potential directional throws that do the same. The other factor we can use to turn our direction around manually is with the Jump art's activation; just make sure to be drifting without being in the tumble falling state while cycling to Jump, & then tap the joystick towards the blastline to make Shulk face that direction thus we can setup into a rising Doublejump + B-air for edge-guard breaking their edge-guard. A friendly warning is to be careful of the B-Reverse from the art's activation, for it can put a slight damper on you if you're not aware of the sudden shift of movement taking place.
Aside from that, the other times that the opponent tries to do something like you mentioned at this quote's ending, I do like using a rising Doublejump + B-air to cover myself. It's quite helpful when you cover all that horizontal range in between you & the opponent coming toward you.
I only thought about this because some of the people I play with tend to ready their attacks. Like, some of them charge their smash attack against me hoping that they'll hit me once I use air slash (and miss the ledge snap) or they just have the habit of always throwing out an attack when I recover so I was like, "Hm... Maybe I should just use b-air while jumping back on stage. I'd probably beat out their attack anyway"
So yeah. I know b-air is godlike and all that. Thing is, if you **** it up, you're most likely dead and the punishment for ****ing up b-air recovering is faaar worse than using b-air when your opponent isn't doing **** on stage. Thoughts?
F-air could work but the horizontal range isn't as much so... eh
It's a good thought. There are times my opponent does ready a move that would be so punishable if I could just jump up there & reach their move in time to Vision counter it, but y'know.
So anyways, I approve of B-air edge-guard breaking for coverage & challenging moves, but I think that it's kind of a risk if B-air's timing is a stranger to someone who'd want to use it in that manner.
If I wanted to be safe edge-guard breaking their attack or whatever they prepare while being close enough tot he ledge, I'll just F-air the lip area or Shark them by inputting U-air to stab from below. That's just me though. In the end, I'd use B-air's sourspot just to poke them from a range beyond what F-air couldn't reach, that or something else.
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What I would want to discuss more about this topic is the fact that using B-air in this kind of way begins first with us facing away from the stage. That first step is required before trying this strategy & the opponent who doesn't ready an attack & sees this against them for the first time may keep it in mind & watch out for it at anytime we're facing towards the blastline. When they see Shulk facing away from the stage, they may not even think to challenge with anything.
Also, when customs are allowed, I see no reason why one should not opt for Back Slash Charge. It may have less KB, but that super armor makes recovery possible while precluding being projectile-gimped.
There's a customs thread y'know.
Back slash charge is pretty bad man
Idk, it's so punishable
Masonomace said: There's a customs thread y'know.
Though I have this case when playing against my friend (who is a good captain falcon main)
Now he knows he runs the chance to get hit, so if the doesn't edge-guard me, he pays attention if Im going to attack, so he either shields b air. or waits, then proceed to execute an U tilt, which spikes.
I'd say to use F-air or U-air in that case. If he reacts against B-air with his oos option, then he's probably aware of B-air's slim & yet far-reaching hitbox. Instead of B-air, I'd choose to use F-air because you'll be able to snap to the ledge with Air Slash if you're utilizing F-air's FAF that is 41, or if you're choosing to slash through the stage's ledge area, then F-air is perfect for that.
And yeah, BSC is not good. Its a free grab for the opponent if you dont hit the back...
Masonomace said: There's a customs thread y'know.
The fact it has less KB isn't certainly a downside because you should never never use BS to attack. Generally, you should never use normal BS for anything. But BSC has that nice frame one super armor that could potentially help escaping juggles, which are one of the biggest Shulk's weaknesses, against Floaty opponents (read:Rosalina). So yeah, I see little to no reason using BS over BSC.
EDIT: The fact is that with BS you can only hit people. But it's so unsafe that someone who can punish BSC can punish also BS on whiff, let's be real. Instead, BSC helps in an other situation where it can be useful.
I like this as Erico & I have been talking about BSC lately, but there's a customs thread that we all can post at discussing about BSC.
