Third Party Discussions only

[Swamp Sensei]

Where did I say in my post that Sakurai stated he liked classical games?

I have nothing to prove this but based on Sakurai's love for classical games (Kid Icarus, Game & Watch, Ice Climbers) I could see Sakurai wanting Pac-Man in the game.

There ya go!

Reread your comments sometime.

 

[Shorts]

Third Party characters. Who do you think needs to be on DIS LIST? I'm gonna be a little tough on adding for this part, because of how many options you'll give me.

Sonic The Hedgehog
Snake (Metal Gear Solid)
Ace Attorney (Phoenix Write)
Banjo & Kazooie
Battletoads (Zitz)
Bayonetta
Bomberman
Castlevania (Simon Belmont, Alucard, Dracula)
Conker's Bad Fur Day (Conker)
Crono Trigger (Crono)
Dragon Quest (Slime)
Final Fantasy (Chocobo, Black Mage, Moogle, Cloud, Lightning)
Kingdom Hearts (Sora)
KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
Megaman
Ninja Gaiden (Ryu Hayabusa)
No More Hereos (Travis Touchdown)
Pac-Man
Professor Layton
Rayman
Resident Evil [Jill Valentine, Chris Redfeild, Leon Kennedy)
Scribblenauts (Maxwell)
Soul Calibur (Nightmare, Ivy Valentine)
Street Fighter (Ryu, Chun Li, M. Bison)
Tales Series (Cless/Cress, Lloyd)
Tekken (Heihachi, Jin, Kazuya)
Super Mario RPG (Geno, Mallow)
Viewtiful Joe
2nd Sonic Character (Tails, Shadow, Knuckles)
2nd Metal Gear Character (Raiden, Gray Fox)
NO THIRD PARTY CHARACTERS

 

[Deleted member]

Make sure to space out Mega Man <<< like this. Not Megaman.

 

[Neanderthal]

Make sure to space out Mega Man <<< like this. Not Megaman.

Still curious on what your theory is for why 3rd parties are hard to fit into smash, from the last page.
I just can't think of any other reason other than legal issues, so I'm curious if there's something I hadn't thought of since you kept refering to a problem with it a few times but didn't specify.

 

[Shorts]

Still curious on what your theory is for why 3rd parties being hard to fit into smash from the last page.
I just can't think of any other reason other than legal issues, so I'm curious if there's something I hadn't thought of since you kept refering to a problem with it a few times but didn't specify.

Read the quote I left on the previous page. It's from sakurai himseld.

 

[Neanderthal]

Read the quote I left on the previous page. It's from sakurai himseld.

Might you be thinking about a different thread?
You only make one comment of the previous page and it was not a Sakurai quote.

 

[Deleted member]

It's this one:

Masahiro Sakurai: Adding characters from other series and from other worlds, really, outside the Nintendo universe, is an incredibly difficult process. In some ways it's more difficult from just building a game from the ground up because you're really trying to make everything match and in some ways that creates limitations. I hope that people can understand that's the reason we can't include more characters from outside the Nintendo universe. And, of course, I believe that when you increase the number of worlds, you're also increasing the number of people who could potentially enjoy that videogame and the series that you're putting in there. But there are also problems because having these non-traditional characters in there -- even with just Snake and Sonic -- has resulted in a number of people who do dissent in seeing these characters put into the Smash series. It's not a simple matter of adding as many worlds and characters from other games as possible -- you can't be careless in doing that sort of thing, you have to be careful. Internally and externally, there have been people who have raised objections to it.

 

[FalKoopa]

It's this one:

I actually find it difficult to understand his way of thinking. IMO, Sonic and Mega Man can easily fit in the style of Nintendo franchises.

 

[Deleted member]

I actually find it difficult to understand his way of thinking. IMO, Sonic and Mega Man can easily fit in the style of Nintendo franchises.

I agree that Sonic and Mega Man could integrate really well into Smash (and Sonic already shown he can work). But the thing is, if Sakurai considers working with Sonic in some ways, harder than making the game itself, then we have no choice but to follow the same logic with all third-parties unless he contradicts this with another statement later on. There's also licensing issues to consider and they are in no way easy to solve.

Regarding licensing issues and Namco Bandai, I wonder if anyone knows enough to tell us whenever or not the issues are non-existence like Neanderthal said or if there are still licensing issues involved.

@Neanderthal: I'll address your replies later, not feeling it now. Though you did say this in the Pac-Man thread:

Namco will be desperate to give their struggling little mascot a lifeline and Nintendo surely have an obligation under common courtesy to allow their co-developer at least one representation.
It would be ridiculous to deny the co-developer of the game even a single character slot!

So you did say in a way that Nintendo has an obligation to add a Namco character into the game and went as far as to say that it'd be ridiculous if they denied them a slot.

I'm just going to say right now I have a big pet peeve when people say that a certain third-party must be added in and your quote does exactly to fulfill said pet peeves.

 

[volbound1700]

There ya go!

Reread your comments sometime.

Based on Sakurai's love... Nothing about based on a comment by Sakurai. It is based on his love by sticking them in Smash titles.

Honestly do you just go around to boards to pieces of my comment to fish and troll?

 

[volbound1700]

I actually find it difficult to understand his way of thinking. IMO, Sonic and Mega Man can easily fit in the style of Nintendo franchises.

He is talking about the financial, legal, and contract aspect. It is easier to add an internal character because you don't need to have Sales/Purchasing Agents, Lawyers, and other staff sit down and negotiate and put it into a contract on how they handle the IP.

Each time Sakurai leaves the Nintendo world, he has to get an agreement with the company on not just getting the character in the game but also how the character should be handle as well as advertising of that character's addition.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly do you just go around to boards to pieces of my comment to fish and troll?

Ugh...

I have never intended to troll you sir.

I'm...just not gonna reply to your comments ever again... Too much trouble....

 

[Neanderthal]

@Neanderthal: I'll address your replies later, not feeling it now. Though you did say this in the Pac-Man thread:So you did say in a way that Nintendo has an obligation to add a Namco character into the game and went as far as to say that it'd be ridiculous if they denied them a slot.

I didn't say that I didn't say "Nintendo has an obligation to add a Namco character into the game". I don't think they do but what I really said was Sakurai doesn't need an obligation to include him. There are many reasons why he might want to include him anyway.

I'm just going to say right now I have a big pet peeve when people say that a certain third-party must be added in and your quote does exactly to fulfill said pet peeves.

I don't understand what you mean sorry.

 

[volbound1700]

Ugh...

I have never intended to troll you sir.

I'm...just not gonna reply to your comments ever again... Too much trouble....

Basically I don't have a quote of Sakurai stating that and I didn't mean to insiduate that at all in my post. I was just stating based on the large number of classic characters that he puts into the game and the fact he brought back Kid Icarus and re-made it (a classic game). Sorry if my post was confusing.

 

[Deleted member]

Bringing this here to prevent de-railing the Mega Man thread with Namco discussions:

Not only Tales but Namco has talked about how fans want a Tekken rep.

I've only heard about them saying "if there's enough fan demand, we'll push for a Tekken rep". Which I see as the main issue with Tekken is that it's simply not going to get enough demand for Namco to consider pushing a Tekken rep in Smash.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I've only heard about them saying "if there's enough fan demand, we'll push for a Tekken rep". Which I see as the main issue with Tekken is that it's simply not going to get enough demand for Namco to consider pushing a Tekken rep in Smash.

I edited my post to look more accurate. They talked about how questions about Tekken took off before any other possible Namco character.

 

[N3ON]

I think a Namco character is pretty likely (not as likely as Mega Man, but still a fairly good chance), but which Namco character it'll be is still hard to pin down, there isn't one absolutely clear choice like Mega Man is for Capcom and Sonic for Sega, especially given Namco's comments. I do think Pac-Man and Lloyd have the best chances though.

 

[volbound1700]

I think a Namco character is pretty likely (not as likely as Mega Man, but still a fairly good chance), but which Namco character it'll be is still hard to pin down, there isn't one absolutely clear choice like Mega Man is for Capcom and Sonic for Sega, especially given Namco's comments. I do think Pac-Man and Lloyd have the best chances though.

I don't buy much into their comments because as I pointed out in another post, Sega never made any comments about Sonic and the creater of Snake went privately to Sakurai about his character so that wasn't public until the rumors after Melee got leaked about it.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Know what they should do? They should make a Namco character similar to the Pokemon Trainer.

Pac-Man = Squirtle, Lloyd = Ivysaur, and Heihachi = Charizard.

Trainer/Final Smash = Harada

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2aBRrCeKAeE#t=92s

 

[volbound1700]

Know what they should do? They should make a Namco character similar to the Pokemon Trainer.

Pac-Man = Squirtle, Lloyd = Ivysaur, and Heihachi = Charizard.

Trainer = Harada

This made me laugh out loud.

 

[8-peacock-8]

This would of course be their final smash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2aBRrCeKAeE#t=92s

 

[N3ON]

I don't buy much into their comments because as I pointed out in another post, Sega never made any comments about Sonic and the creater of Snake went privately to Sakurai about his character so that wasn't public until the rumors after Melee got leaked about it.

The fact that in Namco's comments they've brought up several different characters they'd like to see included make it significantly different than Sega or Konami, because there was a clear character for each of those companies, either due to popularity or Kojima. Since Namco themselves are of differing opinions on who should be included, it makes it harder for us to narrow it down to a single-most probable character. We didn't/don't have that problem for Konami, Sega, or Capcom, as the latter two are obvious which character it should be, and we were unaware of Konami's involvement beforehand.

 

[volbound1700]

With Namco there is an obvious character (Pac-Man), hardcore gamers just dont like him.

 

[N3ON]

With Namco there is an obvious character (Pac-Man), hardcore gamers just dont like him.

"Obvious" means that he is the clear first choice for which Namco character will be included. Like how Sonic would be the obvious Sega rep, and Mega Man is the obvious Capcom rep. While Pac-Man might have the best chance, he's not the only Namco character with a semi-realistic shot of being included, therefore he's not the sole "obvious" Namco character. It's not obvious he'll be the Namco character chosen. It's up in the air. We might not even get a Namco character. Even if he's been brought up internally and we haven't heard about it, the fact that we know other Namco characters have been brought up proves that Namco wasn't unanimously behind one single character. If it comes down to Sakurai's choice, it's no guarantee that he'd pick Pac-Man.

Also, casual gamers like/dislike Pac-Man just as much as hardcore gamers. Just because they know him, doesn't mean they like him, and doesn't mean they'd support his games or his inclusion.

 

[Knight Dude]

I think a Namco character is pretty likely (not as likely as Mega Man, but still a fairly good chance), but which Namco character it'll be is still hard to pin down, there isn't one absolutely clear choice like Mega Man is for Capcom and Sonic for Sega, especially given Namco's comments. I do think Pac-Man and Lloyd have the best chances though.

Hhmmm. I dunno. I do agree that Pac-man has a good chance of being added to the roster. But so much with Lloyd, if I'm not mistaken he's only appeared in three games. I understand that he's popular and everything but he doesn't seem like a character that Namco would have priority for. But I'm not too versed in the "Tales Of" series. I would say a Tekken character might have a good chance as its one of Namco's more popular franchises, and so far three Tekken games have been on Nintendo consoles. Though perhaps I'm unintentionally bias towards Tekken as its one of my personal favorite series.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Tecmo's Rygar! I loved playing his NES game when I was young.

http://smashboards.com/threads/rygar-master-of-the-murder-yo-yo.336266/

 

[Starcutter]

hey, there's always klonoa if namco wanted him. I know I would like him :D

 

[N3ON]

Hhmmm. I dunno. I do agree that Pac-man has a good chance of being added to the roster. But so much with Lloyd, if I'm not mistaken he's only appeared in three games. I understand that he's popular and everything but he doesn't seem like a character that Namco would have priority for. But I'm not too versed in the "Tales Of" series. I would say a Tekken character might have a good chance as its one of Namco's more popular franchises, and so far three Tekken games have been on Nintendo consoles. Though perhaps I'm unintentionally bias towards Tekken as its one of my personal favorite series.

To be clear, I think Pac-Man has the best chance of Namco characters, then followed by Lloyd. I don't think they are of equal chance. As for Lloyd though, even though he's only made a few appearances, he's one of the most popular characters in his series (the most popular in the west) - a series which is extremely popular in Japan, and one of the characters with closest ties to Nintendo. He's also been specifically brought up by Namco in reference to a Tales character being included in Smash, and did actually have support (minor support - but still support) before Namco was revealed to be working on SSB4. A Tekken character is possible though, sure, but as there hasn't been a single specific Tekken character mentioned or elevated above the others, and no single Tekken character really has the same popularity Lloyd does, I personally believe Lloyd stands the better chance, though again, a Tekken character isn't impossible.

 

[volbound1700]

"Obvious" means that he is the clear first choice for which Namco character will be included. Like how Sonic would be the obvious Sega rep, and Mega Man is the obvious Capcom rep. While Pac-Man might have the best chance, he's not the only Namco character with a semi-realistic shot of being included, therefore he's not the sole "obvious" Namco character. It's not obvious he'll be the Namco character chosen. It's up in the air. We might not even get a Namco character. Even if he's been brought up internally and we haven't heard about it, the fact that we know other Namco characters have been brought up proves that Namco wasn't unanimously behind one single character. If it comes down to Sakurai's choice, it's no guarantee that he'd pick Pac-Man.

Also, casual gamers like/dislike Pac-Man just as much as hardcore gamers. Just because they know him, doesn't mean they like him, and doesn't mean they'd support his games or his inclusion.

Llyod Irving is not well known to most the Smash fan base, especially the casual gamers. Pac-Man is pretty well known universally on the same level as Mario. No Namco character comes close to Pac-Man in recognition/fame. Same holds true for Sonic with Sega.

 

[volbound1700]

Then again who knows, both Llyod and Pac-Man could be in the game lol

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Llyod Irving is not well known to most the Smash fan base, especially the casual gamers. Pac-Man is pretty well known universally on the same level as Mario. No Namco character comes close to Pac-Man in recognition/fame. Same holds true for Sonic with Sega.

So what? My mom may know who Pac-man is, but I guarantee that she wouldn't give even a fraction of a sh*t if he were in Smash.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So what? My mom may know who Pac-man is, but I guarantee that she wouldn't give even a fraction of a sh*t if he were in Smash.

She's not a gamer is she?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

She's not a gamer is she?

Well she owned a 2600 back in the '70s, but she's not much of a gamer today.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well she owned a 2600 back in the '70s, but she's not much of a gamer today.

She's probably not a good argument, these kinds of arguments would be told personally.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

She's probably not a good argument, these kinds of arguments would be told personally.

My point was that while there are a lot of people who recognize Pac-man, that doesn't necessarily mean that him being in Smash would get them interested.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I didn't know who Marth, Roy, Ike, Ness, Captain Falcon, Samus, Lucas, or Pit were when I first saw them.

 

[Frostwraith]

First time I've heard of Melee, I only recognized these characters: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Pikachu, Mewtwo, Pichu, Jigglypuff and Mr. Game & Watch.
Basically, the Mario characters (excluding Dr. Mario), Pokémon characters and Mr. Game & Watch.

I knew Mr. Game & Watch because I had Game & Watch Gallery 4 for GBA.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I mean, the thing that Lloyd could help Namco with, isn't so much getting people into Symphonia as much as it is the Tales series in general. Snake got me into MGS. Lloyd could do the same thing for others.

Pac-Man I don't see this happening with. Before I get bombarded with comments, I realize that this isn't a main point to achieve for Namco, but it's out there. They get paid to help in the first place, so it isn't THAT important.

I still think Lloyd would be much more interesting than Pac-Man. I think (as it has been mentioned before) that Pac-Man is more expected than requested. But that is just me.

 

[Neanderthal]

I mean, the thing that Lloyd could help Namco with, isn't so much getting people into Symphonia as much as it is the Tales series in general. Snake got me into MGS. Lloyd could do the same thing for others.

Pac-Man I don't see this happening with. Before I get bombarded with comments, I realize that this isn't a main point to achieve for Namco, but it's out there. They get paid to help in the first place, so it isn't THAT important.

I still think Lloyd would be much more interesting than Pac-Man. I think (as it has been mentioned before) that Pac-Man is more expected than requested. But that is just me.

It's not just you. It's just these boards make it seem like Lloyd has popularity comparable to Pac due to the gaming forum demographic.
If you actually survey SSB4's entire target market, Pac would generate way more interest than Lloyd who few would even recognise.
You're also ignoring several other advantages Pac has going for him.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I simply don't like the idea of Pac-Man in Smash. Period. I think he is incredibly boring to be honest. I even saw a fan made moveset, and it didn't spark any interest in me at all.

I don't really know what advantages he has quite frankly. I still believe Pac is popular more so because people expect him more than want him. I will continue to believe that unless proven otherwise.