"Thinner character, bigger appeal!" Paper Mario for SSB4; Thread migration soon!

[AnOkayDM]

I don't understand your reasoning, sir. I never said that Paper Mario can't be in because there's already a Mario. I just don't think it's mandatory for him to be in before other characters. Like, I don't think it would have been mandatory to have Young Link before Skull Kid if Adult Link already exists.

Maybe this'll make more sense. It wouldn't make sense to have Vaati, the villain who's only been in Toon games, before Toon Link. Likewise, having a Paper character before having Paper Mario in the game would feel odd to me.

 

[Staarih]

I've been rooting for Paper Mario to be included in a Smash game for quite some time now, so it's nice to see there are other supporters as well! Now that the Mario franchise has five characters in the game already, I'm not too sure about Paper Mario getting in, but as many have said, he could definitely represent his own series (maybe the icon for him being a "paperized" mushroom, or a hammer or something). I think he could have a very interesting move set not only because he's a flat character, but because of the use of his hammer. That would definitely set him apart from normal Mario at least (definitely more so than Dr. Mario in Melee). I personally would like his move set to have elements especially from The Thousand-Year Door, since that's where he acquired most recognizable paper abilities. You know, his recovery could be a pointy paper plane, and maybe rolling into a cone shape for a smash attack and/or becoming paper thin for protection. Maybe some 3D-thing from Super Paper Mario or sticker elements from Sticker Star as well.

Anyway, Paper Mario is a growing, popular series (that's how I've interpreted it) and I think a new game for the Wii U could come in the future. Not that that would be any indication of letting Paper Mario in Smash Bros., but I find four popular games already a good enough reason to at least consider him as a newcomer. If not now, then maybe in the future.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

It's nice to see this thread getting some love....
It's been a while since I myself have been on here.

Speaking of Paper Mario, I feel like Rosalina's reveal has less of an impact on Paper Mario's chances than on Bowser Jr. Paper Mario is non-canon to the regular "Super Mario" series, and I think that having him would essentially represent Mario's evergrowing RPG subfranchise (Paper Mario, M&L, and even Super Mario RPG). Unlike Dr. Mario, Paper Mario can bring a unique "Game & Watch" twist, and he can also incorporate hammer use as well as partner utilization. Although I do think that Paper Mario isn't the most likely of characters, who honestly knows what Sakurai will end up doing? I mean, of the four newcomers, three of them were pretty unexpected to a degree. People doubted Rosalina more than Waluigi, and she got in. Villager was also disregarded due to people believing that Smash was too violent for Animal Crossing, and he got in. Lastly, no one expected WFT, and what happens? She of all characters gets in (don't take that as negative, I still approve of her inclusion). What I'm trying to imply is that you shouldn't count out paper Mario just yet, he still has a chance.

 

[JediLink]

Maybe this'll make more sense. It wouldn't make sense to have Vaati, the villain who's only been in Toon games, before Toon Link. Likewise, having a Paper character before having Paper Mario in the game would feel odd to me.

Not a good comparison at all, because Vaati is from Minish Cap and the Four Swords games, whereas Toon Link is from Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass. Same artstyle, but not the same Link.

I understand what your viewpoint, but I don't share it. Agree to disagree?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think with so many Mario characters revealed already so early, there's still room for Paper Mario easily.

 

[aldelaro5]

I think with so many Mario characters revealed already so early, there's still room for Paper Mario easily.

oh that's a good point but I'm tempted to saythat they could reveal him when they anounce paper mario on wiiu

 

[aldelaro5]

EDIT : wow double post after getting an error?

 

[Louie G.]

Although my hope for Paper Mario, once my most wanted newcomer, has decreased, my support has never died. I feel like Rosalina as the 5th Mario character heavily decreases every possible contender's chances: except Paper Mario, who now stands above the rest. As much as I want him to be included, I don't find it likely, and I don't think I ever truly did. He was on my roster mainly for my selfish desire. Still, if Sakurai decided that another Mario character would be cool, I think Paper Mario is the best choice, if not solely for the loophole of adding him as a separate series.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Not a good comparison at all, because Vaati is from Minish Cap and the Four Swords games, whereas Toon Link is from Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass. Same artstyle, but not the same Link.

I understand what your viewpoint, but I don't share it. Agree to disagree?

Toon Link, while being from WW/PH, represents every Toon Link in my opinion. Nevertheless, if you wanna get semantic: ( ) if Ganon was from Wind Waker but Link and Zelda were from Twilight Princess, and there was no Toon Link (from Wind Waker), it would be odd.

But sure, I can agree to that.

 

[Kenrallminyah]

Add me to the list of supporters! If anybody wants to argue that Paper mario is a clone of Mario, then try to convince me that Toon link is not a clone of link. Paper mario has so much possibility in his sidekicks, and his in game combat abilities. I havent really played a Paper Mario game since the old 64 days, but I loved it then and I still love it now! That game was nuts. Mario still has hit mallet and spin jumping abilities to work with. He isnt as easy to work with as say Banjo Kazooie (cough) would be. But I will agree he has a good chance of eating up a roster spot soon.

I cant see paper mario being a skin to regular mario, mostly because from the paper mario I played, he didnt use fireballs, and he definitely didnt use the FLUDD from sunshine. Sorry if i butcherd the flood spelling or any other grammer. Super early and im in a rush ahahhah. Being serious Lets Go paper mario. Hes more unique than toon link!

 

[Gallowglass]

I've never been a supporter of the idea of Paper Mario but then again I've never played the game. Well I've got the original game on my Wii and I'm going to try it out. I've just started but so far I haven't found anything really impressive yet. We'll see if the game will change my mind.

 

[aldelaro5]

I've never been a supporter of the idea of Paper Mario but then again I've never played the game. Well I've got the original game on my Wii and I'm going to try it out. I've just started but so far I haven't found anything really impressive yet. We'll see if the game will change my mind.

if this game isn't good enough, just play ttyd really some elements of this game really impressed me comparing to the first one.

 

[Gallowglass]

Well I've only beaten chapter 1 so far and I'm not going to make any final opinions until I beat the game.

My issue with it is that its not a new character. Its just Mario in a different style. If we did this why don't we have 2D Jumpman (which they've made a thread for), Kart driving Mario, Sport Mario, Tag team Mario/Luigi from the Mario and Luigi series, Artist Mario from the Mario Paint Series, and while we're at it lets have Mario from Mario Teaches Typing. I could add a few more but you get the point. Each of these Marios can have a unique move set and play style but why have more version of the same character?

Paper Mario is a really fun game by the way and I recommend it to everyone to play.

 

[aldelaro5]

Well I've only beaten chapter 1 so far and I'm not going to make any final opinions until I beat the game.

My issue with it is that its not a new character. Its just Mario in a different style. If we did this why don't we have 2D Jumpman (which they've made a thread for), Kart driving Mario, Sport Mario, Tag team Mario/Luigi from the Mario and Luigi series, Artist Mario from the Mario Paint Series, and while we're at it lets have Mario from Mario Teaches Typing. I could add a few more but you get the point. Each of these Marios can have a unique move set and play style but why have more version of the same character?

Paper Mario is a really fun game by the way and I recommend it to everyone to play.

I've heard this before and although, your argument is kind of true, it depends how you see it

One thing that makes a character, IMO, good is the fact that not only it adds something to the game but that it would fit the character. Now all of all incarnation that exists of mario paper mario is the one that really stuck to my mind because it has already something unique from the start that would actually, according to the character, make sense (talking about paper abilities but especially partner). I agree to your point tough: it is possible to give a unique moveset to each of the incarnation you mentioned but that don't necessarily means that it's worth to include it.

Toon link is my best example I know that the opinion is mixed about him: on one side he feels different from link and you can feel this by playing wind waker (even tough it IS link you don't have the feel that it is the main one) and on the other side, his moveset is too close from the main link which creates the clone problem.

I already stated this before but paper mario is a toon link decloned because he has what toon link don't: unique enough to stands out from the main character. The reason toon link don't have this is because he acts really similar to link in his games although you feels it's a different one, they are similar.

Now I think you get where I'm going, I think that paper mario stands out enough from the main one to not only feel unique but to actually be unique. The main reason for that is that his series itself is unique taking the whole platformer series into an rpg with such "unique artistry" (quote from the melee trophy description) is enough to make this series unique enough to not say that paper mario is A version of mario but he's ANOTHER version FROM the main mario.

To come back to your question, you can add any mario you want and manage to make his moveset unique enough but there's 2 main problem. The first one is that the overall character moveset has to be unique not just a part of it and second, there's still the problem that they won't have the feel that it's another mario but rather a mario.

That's how I see it your argument depends on how you interprets it and I respect your interpretation but I don't consider it useless to have paper mario considering he's from mario.

 

[Gallowglass]

I understand your point and your reasoning is just as sound. They have put Dr. Mario in it so it is very possible. I just feel like because he has paper-style moves and companions really isn't justifiable for his inclusion.

Toon Link is a separate person from Link though. Also there are more games that show Link as a kid rather than an adult. Paper Mario is only two games (unless there are more that I don't know of). I don't believe Toon Link is included because of his artistic variation but rather that he represent the child Links. This is shown with his brown hair coloring representing Link from the original LOZ.

Paper Mario wasn't the first game to bring Mario into the RPG world. Mario RPG did that and Paper Mario was originally going to be a sequel (which is why its known as Mario's Story in Japan).

I'm not saying you're wrong just giving my interpretation of it.

 

[JediLink]

Paper Mario is only two games (unless there are more that I don't know of)

How can you be in a Paper Mario thread and yet not know about half of the series?

 

[aldelaro5]

How can you be in a Paper Mario thread and yet not know about half of the series?

thing is, the first 2 games are really good where the last 2 removes the best things they had (especially sticker star) but spm isn't that bad still, I don't even think they can manage to do better than ttyd imo it's too close from perfection.

 

[JediLink]

thing is, the first 2 games are really good where the last 2 removes the best things they had (especially sticker star) but spm isn't that bad still, I don't even think they can manage to do better than ttyd imo it's too close from perfection.

This man speaks the truth.

PM1 is great.
TTYD is godlike.
SPM is a good game in its own right, but somewhat disappointing compared to the holiness that is TTYD.
SS can die in a fire.

But still, you'd think that even if Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star are different from the rest of the series and not as good, people would have still heard of them...

 

[SchAlternate]

I feel like Paper Mario could easily fit the category of "that one Mario look-alike that goes before him in the roster" along Luigi in 64 and Dr. Mario in Melee.

I also adore the Paper Mario series, have played the crap out of Two Thousand Year Door, had a blast with the original, had a pretty good time in Super Paper Mario, and I've never played Sticker Star, but after seeing everyone's comments on it, I think it's best if it stays that way.

And I think he's got a deceivingly vast moveset potential, despite the fact that some people could easily classify him as a clone. Ha ha. Poor naive losers.

 

[Gallowglass]

How can you be in a Paper Mario thread and yet not know about half of the series?

If you've read just four post above this one you would have notice that I'm just getting into the series.

I also shouldn't have to play every game just to understand why this character should be in Smash.

 

[JediLink]

I also shouldn't have to play every game just to understand why this character should be in Smash.

You kind of do. If you've only played the original Donkey Kong, then Donkey Kong is a terrible character for Smash because he's just a mindless ape that can only climb and throw barrels.

With Paper Mario, really a lot of his moveset potential comes from TTYD and SPM. In TTYD, he gets all of his paper abilities like turning into a plane, a boat, a tube, etc. In SPM, he has the flip ability as well as all his Pixls.

 

[SmashBro99]

We got Toon Link with the same moveset as Link, they couldn't possibly pull that **** with Paper Mario.

+1

 

[王女 クマトラ]

Not here for these clone characters

If you've ever even played Paper Mario, you know how much moveset potential he has and that he would be in no way a clone character. Plus, if he ended up as a clone character, Sakurai would probably put him as an alternate costume (see: Male Wii Fit Trainer) rather then an extra slot on the roster. However, I'd prefer he have his own moveset considering he has a whole series, 4 games of his own. I'm sure it's already been suggested but all of his special moves could involve his partners from each game, while his smashes could involve his hammer and jump attacks. His Up+B/Recovery could be the airplane, and if he's in a stage with water it'd be the sailboat (both from TTYD) and he could have a custom animation for a spot dodge as him flipping into 3D. His shield could be Lady Bow pulling him into the background like she does in PM64, and when broken it could show Bow knocked out (as partners do in TTYD) and him quickly healing her with a Mushroom or something (as opposed to the standard dizzy animation, he'd be forced to do this, wasting time still of course)

Edit: So, this turned into a moveset post apparently.

 

[aldelaro5]

If you've ever even played Paper Mario, you know how much moveset potential he has and that he would be in no way a clone character. Plus, if he ended up as a clone character, Sakurai would probably put him as an alternate costume (see: Male Wii Fit Trainer) rather then an extra slot on the roster. However, I'd prefer he have his own moveset considering he has a whole series, 4 games of his own. I'm sure it's already been suggested but all of his special moves could involve his partners from each game, while his smashes could involve his hammer and jump attacks.

I tough that his aerial could be the ttyd's stylish figure.

 

[BluePikmin11]

We got Toon Link with the same moveset as Link, they couldn't possibly pull that **** with Paper Mario.

+1

It's a nice possibility considering it's a rule that the Special Moves would have to be the same. I'd rather wait for a Nintendo character from a new Nintendo IP who can use those paper abilities.

 

[Knight Dude]

I still think he'd be cool addition. Though admittedly, I'm doubting his chances even more this time around. Since we do have a new Mario character along with the main four. But I think that if we ever did get another Mario character, it could end up being another version of Mario. Whether it would be Paper Mario or Doctor Mario, is yet to be seen. Still, I support the character.

 

[Gallowglass]

You kind of do. If you've only played the original Donkey Kong, then Donkey Kong is a terrible character for Smash because he's just a mindless ape that can only climb and throw barrels.

With Paper Mario, really a lot of his moveset potential comes from TTYD and SPM. In TTYD, he gets all of his paper abilities like turning into a plane, a boat, a tube, etc. In SPM, he has the flip ability as well as all his Pixls.

His move set potential is not what I'm looking at per say. I'm looking at how the paper series stands out from the rest (or at least the classic) of Mario's games. Also I should be able to pick up any of the games and get a general idea of what the game is about. Most move sets of characters in Smash come from item/abilities seen throughout their series. Link and Toon Link use bows, bombs, and boomerangs because they're found in nearly every Zelda game. Sure they could add the deku leaf from Wind Waker or the ball and chain from Twilight Princess but you would only know about those items if you played those specific games.

 

[JediLink]

His move set potential is not what I'm looking at per say. I'm looking at how the paper series stands out from the rest (or at least the classic) of Mario's games.

If you're still only early in (which I'm not sure if you are) then so far it probably just looks like "Mario saves Peach again but with turn-based battles and a different artstyle", but maybe once you delve a bit deeper you'll start to see what makes Paper Mario (both the character, and the series in general) unique and distinct from classic Mario. There is some great stuff ahead. (Espcially in TTYD. If you're enjoying PM1, then TTYD is going to blow your mind.)

Also I should be able to pick up any of the games and get a general idea of what the game is about. Most move sets of characters in Smash come from item/abilities seen throughout their series. Link and Toon Link use bows, bombs, and boomerangs because they're found in nearly every Zelda game. Sure they could add the deku leaf from Wind Waker or the ball and chain from Twilight Princess but you would only know about those items if you played those specific games.

They have been using the more generic/common stuff for movesets, but that doesn't mean that they have to. I'm going to be pretty pissed if Toon Link doesn't have the Deku Leaf in Smash 4. It's just such a wasted opportunity to make him a more unique and interesting character.

 

[Sonicguy726]

As long as he doesn't count as a mario character, I'd rather have him representing his own series like yoshi and wario with like maybe a mushroom sticker icon that has been half peeled off, that would be pretty cool

 

[Zzuxon]

Paper Mario is one of my top desires. I can't believe I haven't dropped in before.

 

[Staarih]

As long as he doesn't count as a mario character, I'd rather have him representing his own series like yoshi and wario with like maybe a mushroom sticker icon that has been half peeled off, that would be pretty cool

I personally wouldn't mind even if he did count as another Mario character (and in some peoples' eyes he still would even if he was to represent his own series (much like Yoshi and Wario, and DK, are still partly considered as Mario characters as originated from Mario games)). That would make 6 Mario reps, which I don't think would be a problem (and maybe it'd give a chance for a 6th Pokémon character hahaha). But I'd still prefer if Paper Mario represented his own series, or maybe the Mario RPG-series as a whole. I do like the idea of his icon being a mushroom, which is peeled off (or has a "papery" vibe instead of being the normal mushroom).

My avatar must indicate I'm an avid Paper Mario -supporter...

 

[aldelaro5]

My avatar must indicate I'm an avid Paper Mario -supporter...

It's funny that you say that because, even if it doesn't look likes it, my avatar is a screenshot from ttyd. When I was doing glitch hunting, I found that while the fish cutscene is playing (when you fall into the water), there's 2 big red thing underneath the map that appears; you can't see it normally I had to move my camera using an emu to see it.

For your interest, this is actually an upscaled version of mario's arms texture. IDK why it's there but they are here so lol.

 

[JediLink]

It's funny that you say that because, even if it doesn't look likes it, my avatar is a screenshot from ttyd. When I was doing glitch hunting, I found that while the fish cutscene is playing (when you fall into the water), there's 2 big red thing underneath the map that appears; you can't see it normally I had to move my camera using an emu to see it.

For your interest, this is actually an upscaled version of mario's arms texture. IDK why it's there but they are here so lol.

That is immensely weird...

 

[Sonicguy726]

Here's my idea for paper mario's moveset:
http://sonicguy726.deviantart.com/art/Super-Smash-Bros-for-Wii-U-3DS-Paper-Mario-Moveset-433628036

 

[Rockaphin]

Obviously I want Paper Mario in lol, but really he has a great moveset potential.

 

[SchAlternate]

Obviously I want Paper Mario in lol, but really he has a great moveset potential.

Don't you mean because he has great moveset potential?

 

[Rockaphin]

Don't you mean because he has great moveset potential?

Yesh

 

[Thirdkoopa]

We need more support! Honestly I want him to be his own series so we can get more Mario RPG representation all over the place!

 

[aldelaro5]

We need more support! Honestly I want him to be his own series so we can get more Mario RPG representation all over the place!

It's true that he needs more support (tough, I was thinking to put more info on the op. Like moveset conterarguments etc... because I just don't like how it's just a summary.) The thing is, I really wonder if we'll see paper mario stuff other than trophy and sticker.

EDIT: I just read your message on the character discussion thread when you say that the serie is underepresented and I just want to say THANK YOU really having at least music is a minimum.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Ahem....

Allow me to show you my proposal for a Paper Mario moveset

Let's Begin with the overview:

Paper Mario is just as his name implies - paper. What does this mean for the character? Well he is incredibly light and incredibly evasive. This will mostly cater to his B moves. Also, please note that my move set won't highlight his partners AS much as past ideas, as those require a little more knowledge of the game. Mine will focus on more shallow traits he represents that make him unique.

Neutral B - Flip

Being the most primary puzzle ability in Super Paper Mario, and subsequently big to in game mechanics in following games, I feel it should be his most important special move. All this move does is allow Paper Mario to flip. As in the game, people in the other dimension cannot see him. He is able to move wherever he pleases and cannot attack until he switches out. So to the player, he looks virtually invisible. Although this is the case, he can still be damaged if the player can find him. Simultaneously, if the B button is just pressed instead of held, PM will just flip, causing opponents to phase through him his they are attacking. Like in Super Paper Mario, when you flip, there is a meter for how long you can do it. If PM exceeds this, he'll go into a shield break type animation

Side B - Airplane

As the name suggest. I'm sure this is common to be had on Paper Marios moveset. However, many don't see how intricate it is. Firstly, he becomes a paper airplane. He could gain momentum by doing a tiny hop before and he would glide in one direction with little mobility. If he hits the ground, he stops and is vulnerable. If he hits opponents, they'll get caught in it, building damage, and shot out. It also is worth mentioning that his hitbox becomes extremely smaller, so although he is vulnerable, he is hard to hit. Can be applicably in recovery.

Up B - Super Jump

Used in Paper Mario 2 and Super Paper Mario (although Luigi uses it) , Mario folds himself into a spring and builds up tension. When lets go, he springs high into the air. It takes time when trying to recover, but the height achieved is well worth it.

Down B - Partners

Paper Mario has had many partners in his games over time. Instead of compiling a move set based on all of them, I figured on having one move to highlight and tribute them all would be all the more fun (and in Paper Mario's style, quirky) to implement. You would have a G&W type move (Judge) that would be a random attack by one of your partners. This could include:

• A koopa shell being fired
• A bob-omb being placed down
• A rare one where a goomba reads about your opponent
• Flurrie, where she blows your oppenents away (FLUDD type move)
• Barry, providing a shield

And so on. Note that these are random, and like G&Ws judge, hard to implement and truly. I kinda thought that it'd be interesting if you could bring up a menu as Paper Mario does when he fights that scolls left and right and choose from that what to do. But i digress

Now Basic Attacks.

Side Smash - Hammer (and have the cool little countdown timer too like in PM:TTYD; when it reaches the third beep, the attack is at it's strongest)
Up Smash - Jump Punch (Very simple, very basic, but also one of the most common sprites you see in the game)
Down Smash - POW block

Dash attack - Spinning Run from Paper Mario 1
Jab - 3 Hole-punch: Basically a punch combo, but with a clever name xD

Final Smash: You Struck First!

As it implies, it would require you to have the Smash Ball and be next to an oppenent. When done correctly, the text 'You Struck First' would appear and the curtains would go down. You go into the stage fight in Paper Mario 1 and 2. You're foe would have 1hp left and Paper Mario would decide (random) what to do. It could vary from Showstopper to just jumping on the opponents head. When defeated, it switches back to the actual stage and the opponent gets KO'd. It would be about as fast as Peaches Final Smash but wouldn't ruin the flow all that much, as when you return everyone can see what their doing.

It's worth mentioning that PM moves in sprites, similar to G&W. So the punch combo above would change from one punch sprite to another to another.

If he sounds OP, then look here. Like I said, he's paper, so he's light. I'd say lightest on the potential roster but that's debatable. As such, he needs to have great recovery options and good evasive tactics. Similarly, his speed would be faster than normal Mario, and he wouldn't be sluggish in terms of lag after moves. He'd be clean cut. *ba-dum, chh*

He's probably the only character I'm rooting to be him right now. For all my life as a Smash Fan, it was him and Sonic (Lately Toad but that's been put into the fire.) I'm hoping this times his shot.