Social The Zero Suit/Samus in Shorts Social

[Tobi_Whatever]

Thats the whole point of the 50/50 lol. The sheik either can immediately upair and hit you if you dont airdodge quick enough or the sheik can wait for the airdodge and uair. She has all the control after the dthrow, at that high percent using down b and jump will force you to land to the ground aka 1 needle = hitstun/cant land. Its a pretty hard scenario

Yeah I understand where you are coming from, what made it suspicious to me was that I never saw you try (dSpecial that is).
I guess it wasn't that relevant at EVO since you lost one stock to this particular 50/50 if I remember correctly, but you lost 3 at CEO.

While we have you here, what's your opinion on the Sheik MU? You seem to manage pretty well.

 

[Take 5]

From ZeRo's AMA today:

Question: Was the dropping out of ZSS's fsmash against Nairo DI or luck? Be honest!

Answer: I held down which cuts the stun a little bit, then I Smash DI'ed up and away the first hit to make it a bit more likely he could miss, then he hits me as the stun wears off because he was late. This resulted in me escaping the F-Smash.

Also it looks like he's sticking to Sm4sh (the whole switching to Melee thing must have been for hype purposes, lol).

 

[Glyphagos]

From ZeRo's AMA today:

Question: Was the dropping out of ZSS's fsmash against Nairo DI or luck? Be honest!

Answer: I held down which cuts the stun a little bit, then I Smash DI'ed up and away the first hit to make it a bit more likely he could miss, then he hits me as the stun wears off because he was late. This resulted in me escaping the F-Smash.

Also it looks like he's sticking to Sm4sh (the whole switching to Melee thing must have been for hype purposes, lol).

So it wasn't DI it was timing or am I misunderstanding?

 

[Urameshi_]

would anyone be willing to play me some matches? i wanted to take zss a little more seriously

 

[IsmaR]

I'll shoot you a friend request.

 

[Urameshi_]

I'll shoot you a friend request.

oh sorry i just saw this, still here?

 

[IsmaR]

Always here.

 

[Urameshi_]

Always here.

ayy, i'll open up a room then.

EDIT: i actually have to cut my beat down short after this next one, dinner got ready sooner than expected.

 

[IsmaR]

Ah, no worries. GGs ^^

 

[Urameshi_]

Ah, no worries. GGs ^^

thanks a ton for the matches btw. also if you're on later or maybe some other day this week would you mind another round?

 

[IsmaR]

'Course. I'll probably be playing Splatoon for the rest of tonight, but should be on around this time during weekdays.

 

[Daisy101]

I totally need to get back on my scene way before summer ends. i do feel the need to improve with my ZSS.

OT: Splatoon is the game brother!

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

From ZeRo's AMA today:

Question: Was the dropping out of ZSS's fsmash against Nairo DI or luck? Be honest!

Answer: I held down which cuts the stun a little bit, then I Smash DI'ed up and away the first hit to make it a bit more likely he could miss, then he hits me as the stun wears off because he was late. This resulted in me escaping the F-Smash.

Also it looks like he's sticking to Sm4sh (the whole switching to Melee thing must have been for hype purposes, lol).

As we suspected. Can't blame Nairo though, not charging that thing would probably not have killed anyway.

I totally need to get back on my scene way before summer ends. i do feel the need to improve with my ZSS.

OT: Splatoon is the game brother!

God I have so many games to play, don't want to suck at smash and have to go to work.
Now my stupid sexy flatmate bought a PS4 and I have to play Bloodborne all the time. Curse him and the game, why is it so much fun.

 

[pichuthedk]

So it wasn't DI it was timing or am I misunderstanding?

Well if we go back and watch the replay would we see zero crouch a frame before getting downsmashed?

IIRC holding down only effects the stun time if you are holding down before you get stunned and are on the ground therefore allowing you to crouch cancel it...or should it have a different name? Lol.

 

[David Viran]

Well if we go back and watch the replay would we see zero crouch a frame before getting downsmashed?

IIRC holding down only effects the stun time if you are holding down before you get stunned and are on the ground therefore allowing you to crouch cancel it...or should it have a different name? Lol.

Why would zero crouch when he could just sheild?

 

[Shaya]

It's risk/reward.

Crouch cancelling means you basically cannot die (remember us being scared as **** at people going from dying at 100 to 160%?) to non multi hits.
Also cannot get grabbed by zss (maybe max range you can?) either.
Coincidentally also reduces the stun time of our paralyzer/down smash significantly.

If people crouch cancel AND smash DI Boost Kick's first hit downwards they can fall right out of it without even taking the second hit.

 

[David Viran]

@ Nairo I'm curious as to why you take sheik to smashville so often? It's like her best stage.

 

[Champ Gold]

Man, I'm still having trouble with the Stun Laser off stage into Flip Kick spike combo.

That or I'm just having trouble in general. But I'll keep fighting. I just miss the range she had with her whip in Brawl

 

[Shaya]

Honestly I personally think Battlefield is a terrible stage for us against Sheik.
What does it do for us? Enhances the rewards of our advantaged state.
Great.

What does it for Sheik?
Makes her neutral and pressure game GODLIKE, you're never escaping from the platforms against Sheik even if she doesn't kill you as easily as we do for it.
Wait... a harder time dealing with Sheik in neutral? GOD NO.

Smashville is good for Sheik, definitely... just... ughh battlefield is suffocation.

 

[Champ Gold]

Honestly I personally think Battlefield is a terrible stage for us against Sheik.
What does it do for us? Enhances the rewards of our advantaged state.
Great.

What does it for Sheik?
Makes her neutral and pressure game GODLIKE, you're never escaping from the platforms against Sheik even if she doesn't kill you as easily as we do for it.
Wait... a harder time dealing with Sheik in neutral? GOD NO.

Smashville is good for Sheik, definitely... just... ughh battlefield is suffocation.

What about Dreamland? Is it worse that Battlefield with the high platforms

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Honestly I personally think Battlefield is a terrible stage for us against Sheik.
What does it do for us? Enhances the rewards of our advantaged state.
Great.

What does it for Sheik?
Makes her neutral and pressure game GODLIKE, you're never escaping from the platforms against Sheik even if she doesn't kill you as easily as we do for it.
Wait... a harder time dealing with Sheik in neutral? GOD NO.

Smashville is good for Sheik, definitely... just... ughh battlefield is suffocation.

Alternative suggestions? Town and City?

 

[Shaya]

I like lylat >.>

Smashville wouldn't be our best stage in a lot of match ups, but I think it's pretty ok in this match up.
Dreamland plays out better than battlefield mostly due to the jump height differences.
T+C/FD are alright.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I like lylat >.>

Smashville wouldn't be our best stage in a lot of match ups, but I think it's pretty ok in this match up.
Dreamland plays out better than battlefield mostly due to the jump height differences.
T+C/FD are alright.

You like Lylat? I hate that stage. So many attacks miss because of the stupid tilt.

 

[ぱみゅ]

BF is fine if you're comfortable with going offstage.
Seriously, Sheik's options get drastically reduced if she doesn't have Needles loaded. Also, the top platform does not make her a lot of favors. Alsoalso, she is easy to get stuck at a platform, weird enough, they seem to disrupt her aerial/landing game.

Not sure about the matchup though, I don't really play it too often.

 

[infiniteV115]

I feel like Lylat would be good against Sheik. ****s up her needle game; if she's on the higher end of the slope we can probably crawl under them. If she's on the lower end then they'll just crash into the ground.

Right?

 

[Shaya]

It's really easy to set up a roofie or chain fairs/bairs between platforms.
Ever since the ledge change it's pretty hard to kill yourself during recovery.

And the stage tilts 'alter' your jump heights giving you different timings your aerials are functional (zair baby, ZAIR)
Also ground moves can apply to this too (jab hitting people closer to the ground/etc).

And in some situations you can crouch under things too. Like needles.

 

[Peahnuts]

If delfino/halberd get banned (which they always do against me) I usually take sheik to BF because I feel it opens our options as much as hers and the bigger blastzones help out a little. T&C maybe because zss probably benefits more from the platforms due to her jump heights but I don't need sheiks uair killing any earlier than usual. Smashville not for obvious fair reasons.

Though I did come 3rd at a tourney today by being double eliminated by the best sheik in our region (got 2-1ed WR3 then 3-1 LF) where BF was chosen every game so my opinion might be a little fraudulent lol.

Also this is probably known but thought I'd mention I escaped fthrow>bouncing fish a few times by DI'ing in at zero/low percents.

EDIT: might consider lylat next time because of what's been said even though I dislike/am uncomfortable on that stage.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Lylat sounds good, but the edges can still be bad for us using Up B if it's tilting toward the side we're recovering. (we have a tether anyway though tbh)

 

[IsmaR]

Not to mention Flip Jump, which actually lets us go under most stages.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Just came back from a local tourney, 16 players.
A very good Link main that I initially 3:0 to losers came back strong in GF and actually got me to game 10 before I finally won.
I don't have too much experience with the MU so I had to adapt a lot myself. His grab made perfectly spaced bAir and nAir unsafe moves. I had trouble to properly get in. I couldn't poke to get kills. His OOS options are solid so I couldn't just jump over him for better shield pressure. He zAir'd a lot and his bomb game was phenomenal, as was his grab game.

 

[Nairo]

@ Nairo I'm curious as to why you take sheik to smashville so often? It's like her best stage.

Shes pretty good on BF too if that was what the stage youd think I would go. Im fine with BF SV and TAC but its more of a player preference than a character preference IMO.

 

[David Viran]

Just came back from a local tourney, 16 players.
A very good Link main that I initially 3:0 to losers came back strong in GF and actually got me to game 10 before I finally won.
I don't have too much experience with the MU so I had to adapt a lot myself. His grab made perfectly spaced bAir and nAir unsafe moves. I had trouble to properly get in. I couldn't poke to get kills. His OOS options are solid so I couldn't just jump over him for better shield pressure. He zAir'd a lot and his bomb game was phenomenal, as was his grab game.

Bair? His grab is frame 12 I'm pretty sure so you should definitely be able to spot dodge in time.

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah you should be able to spotdodge in time. Also landing uair --> jab in case the shieldgrab is guaranteed on nair/bair (which I really doubt) for even more pressure options. Link should be one of the easiest characters for you to shield pressure lol

 

[Peahnuts]

Yeah FF uair to instant jab or boost kick catches so many people off guard as they try to drop shieldshield (or OOS grab) to punish, its great. Praise frame 1 jab. Even if the landing uair hits as well for whatever reason and you instant upb on habit it will connect until 60%ish.

 

[Shaya]

@ Tobi_Whatever , you're probably needing to think about placing your aerial hitboxes towards the corners/on top of the bubble.
Bomb bull **** is hard. Try to use down-b to cross over on occasion.

Side-b can clank and blow up bombs, bringing you neutral. But you can also catch bombs if you're really tuned with the timing (and ZSS with an item in her hand is broken).
Otherwise sounds like you need some zair.

Link's grab game is -kinda- free right now. People really sleep on him lol.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

@ David Viran @ infiniteV115 @ Shaya Thanks guys, gonna lab more.
I got the very last kill with a dSpecial kick soft read actually but he did his best not to use any pattern.
And I really need to step up my zAir game, my aim is awful lol.

 

[pichuthedk]

@ David Viran @ infiniteV115 @ Shaya Thanks guys, gonna lab more.
I got the very last kill with a dSpecial kick soft read actually but he did his best not to use any pattern.
And I really need to step up my zAir game, my aim is awful lol.

So my friend who plays Link is not especially good however he takes his prescribed aderal to play video games all day which gives him an edge in figuring out my already easily telegraphed patterns, somethings to note would be the following.

While bIg stages like fd give him a lot of camp you can compensate this with a small unpunishable boost to some abilities.
When link boomerangs,
-down b recovers around as far as FD's length useful for getting around boomerang edgeguards along with stalling if you just jump into it.

-you can also jump over boomerang and wait for it to start retracting to unlock the use of shinespark level speed with your dash (I've used this to land some things like boost kick , up smash or just wait until the last second and run right through him only to flip jump backwards and kick/bury him)

You can also do some Shinanegans with zair or bait him but firing a paralyzer into it while your being drawn him which is risky but can set you up for surprise grabs/boost kicks when he goes to punish.

Now when Link hits you with a bomb he gets a guaranteed dair spike at certain ranges so theoretically we should be able to spike as well if not that boost kicks for days.

Watch out for his single hit bair -> turn around jab/tilts.

One thing I myself need to do acknowledge and do more myself is instead of shielding his projectiles like arrow /boomerang, is to tilt/jab them as it offers you more leeway in terms of the shield lock frames.

You must have had this happen to you but o don't forget to be cautious of his nair combo breaker.

I rarely face good links but you can generally determine skill level within the first few seconds or hit confirms.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So my friend who plays Link is not especially good however he takes his prescribed aderal to play video games all day which gives him an edge in figuring out my already easily telegraphed patterns, somethings to note would be the following.

While bIg stages like fd give him a lot of camp you can compensate this with a small unpunishable boost to some abilities.
When link boomerangs,
-down b recovers around as far as FD's length useful for getting around boomerang edgeguards along with stalling if you just jump into it.

-you can also jump over boomerang and wait for it to start retracting to unlock the use of shinespark level speed with your dash (I've used this to land some things like boost kick , up smash or just wait until the last second and run right through him only to flip jump backwards and kick/bury him)

You can also do some Shinanegans with zair or bait him but firing a paralyzer into it while your being drawn him which is risky but can set you up for surprise grabs/boost kicks when he goes to punish.

Now when Link hits you with a bomb he gets a guaranteed dair spike at certain ranges so theoretically we should be able to spike as well if not that boost kicks for days.

Watch out for his single hit bair -> turn around jab/tilts.

One thing I myself need to do acknowledge and do more myself is instead of shielding his projectiles like arrow /boomerang, is to tilt/jab them as it offers you more leeway in terms of the shield lock frames.

You must have had this happen to you but o don't forget to be cautious of his nair combo breaker.

I rarely face good links but you can generally determine skill level within the first few seconds or hit confirms.

Reading this, my Link seems to be quite solid all around.
I have to test a lot of stuff. The spotdodge to avoid grab after nAir/bAir, if I can run below an angled boomerang, better zAir usage mainly.
By the way, the stages I beat him on in the final set were Lylat (thanks @ Shaya ), T&C and Battlefield. I tried to avoid flat stages without platforms as much as possible.

 

[pichuthedk]

Reading this, my Link seems to be quite solid all around.
I have to test a lot of stuff. The spotdodge to avoid grab after nAir/bAir, if I can run below an angled boomerang, better zAir usage mainly.
By the way, the stages I beat him on in the final set were Lylat (thanks @ Shaya ), T&C and Battlefield. I tried to avoid flat stages without platforms as much as possible.

Hmmmm so I take it you got some f /b throws to flip jump spikes during the tilt janky bits?

Man the one time I cp'd to there for that I literally never got a tilt or maybe I was on the wrong side unfortunatestuff really.

I also envy you my link spams dash attack and upsmash to much and I only get hit sometimes because I am not expecting the continued use when I always punish with like a boost kick...

On a small note at a small bi weekly Wednesday I pulled a nairo near the top flip jump kick spike straight down on a player that normally always beats me. That game ended with him yelling "oh you dirty motha !#$@!" Like a second and a half before I got the spike. I guess he just knew to accept that zss is law.

 

[Champ Gold]

Hmmmm so I take it you got some f /b throws to flip jump spikes during the tilt janky bits?

Man the one time I cp'd to there for that I literally never got a tilt or maybe I was on the wrong side unfortunatestuff really.

I also envy you my link spams dash attack and upsmash to much and I only get hit sometimes because I am not expecting the continued use when I always punish with like a boost kick...

On a small note at a small bi weekly Wednesday I pulled a nairo near the top flip jump kick spike straight down on a player that normally always beats me. That game ended with him yelling "oh you dirty motha !#$@!" Like a second and a half before I got the spike. I guess he just knew to accept that zss is law.

PRAISE THE ZERO SUIT. ZERO SUIT IS LAW