The Uniqueness Tier List: Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Shulk, and Meta-Knight

BluePikmin11 · Feb 4, 2014

Obviously Sakurai's main goal in Smash 4 is to add unique characters. But who is unique enough to make the cut? What new mechanic does each character bring to the table? Which characters don't deserve to come back since they are not unique, or what needs to happen to make them unique? This will hopefully help everyone decide who Sakurai may go with in terms of unique characters, and who he might just kick to the curb.

Here are some questions to ask yourself while discussing:
These questions are optional, but it can really help you on delving into every area
of the certain character's uniqueness. Totally recommended to answer them in the
best way possible.

BluePikmin11 said:
1. How many diverse options does this character have?
2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
3. Has the concept of the character been done before?
3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own.
4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
6. Does it fit the character well enough?

THE UNIQUENESS TIER LIST:

S TIER:
Bayonetta
Lip
Medusa
Scrooge Mcduck
Zoroark
Doshin the Giant
Aeron
Chibi Robo
Porky
King Boo
Chorus Men
Wild Gunman

A TIER:
Chaos Zero
Shulk
Isaac
Savvy Stylist
Tiki
Zits
Midna and Wolf Link
Paper Mario
Jill Dozer
Simon Belmont
Ayumi Tachibana
Fossil Fighter
Bomberman
Muddy Mole
King K. Rool
Bubbles
__________

Ridley
Little Mac
Palutena
Duck Hunt Dog
Slime
Metal Sonic
Zoda
Tamagon
Bowser Jr.
Serperior
Dark Matter
Banjo and Kazooie
Captain Syrup
Ghirahim
Black Mage
Anna
Diddy/Dixie
Genesect
Eevee
Dillon
__________

Wonder Red
Dr. Kawashima
Micaiah
Professor Layton
Vaati
Robin
Classic Ganon
Alph, Brittany, Charlie Trio
Chrom/Lucina
Leif
Mona
Jack Frost
Zant
Starman
Donbe and Hikari
Excitebiker
Scizor

B TIER:
NiGHTS
Jimmy T.
Stork
Goku
Monita
Krystal
Mr. Resetti
Tingle
Masked Man
Marshall
Geno
Ray MK
Takamaru
Mach Rider
Andy
Tharja
Sheriff
Greninja
__________

Goose
Saki
Victini
Jeff
Hades
Barbara the Bat
Toad
Sceptile
Pterodactyl
Kururin
Pac-Man
Black Shadow
Prince Sable
Sukapon
Hawlucha
__________

Meowth
Daitoryo
Captain Rainbow
Chrom
Nabbit
Mike Jones
Bandanna Dee
Lucina
Rayman
Impa

C TIER:
Mallo
Zael
Gardevoir
Batman
Demise
Tetra
Blaziken
Lyn
__________

Mii
Samurai Goroh
Balloon Fighter
Toon Ganondorf
__________

Diskun
Cranky Kong
Dixie Kong
Louie
E. Gadd

D TIER:
Urban Champion
Magnus
__________

Slippy
Jumpman
Alph
Dark Pit
__________

F TIER:
__________

Toon Zelda
__________

Ninten
__________

Toon Sheik
Pink Gold Peach

THE VETERAN UNIQUENESS TIER LIST:

S TIER:

Rosalina
Olimar
Yoshi

A TIER:

Kirby
Lucario
Zelda
__________

Diddy Kong
Pikachu
Villager
__________

Donkey Kong
Sheik
Samus
Megaman
Sonic

B TIER:

Peach
Greninja
Pac-Man
Wii Fit Trainer
Link
__________

Mario
Bowser
Little Mac
Palutena
Marth
Pit
Zero Suit Samus
__________

Fox
Charizard
King Dedede

C TIER:

Ike
Mii Gunner
__________

Luigi
__________

Mii Brawler

D TIER:

__________

Mii Swordfighter
__________

F TIER:

Toon Link
__________

__________

__________

This will be expanded once we discuss more characters.

DIRECTORY:

Very special thanks to Louie G. for making this thread! Now were making lots of progress thanks to him!

BluePikmin11 · Feb 4, 2014

NOMINATIONS LIST
x3 Demise (Zelda)
x3 Mickey Mouse (Disney)
x3 Mallo (Pushmo)
x2 Son Goku
x2 Gengar
x2 Blastoise
x2 Ryu(Street Fighter)
x2 Sub-Zero
x1 Orcos (Kid Icarus)
x1 Etecoons and Dachoras (Metroid)
x1 Pyoro (Wario)
x1 Petey Piranha (Mario)
x1 Krokorok (Pokémon)
x1 M. Bison
x1 Honey Queen
x1 Ashei
x1 Diancie
x1 Rapunzel (Disney's Tangled)
x1 Wreck It Ralph (Disney's Wreck It Ralph)
x1 Elsa (Disney's Frozen )
x1 Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
x1 Garchomp
x1 Feraligatr x1

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

BluePikmin11 said:
Perhaps we should make a uniqueness chart to see which character offers the most potential, there should be some sort of ranking system so we maybe able to find out.

That's a good plan.
A tier list, of sorts, based on whose playstyle resembles whose, and who is completely unique.

Morbi · Feb 4, 2014

Black Shadow brings something entirely unique to the table, a very similar build to our favorite Ganondorf; Black Shadow is actually pertinent to F-Zero (as such, it is logical that he might have a cloned move-set from the very series that he resides), one of the most Smash relevant franchises offered. This might not be entirely unique on its own; however, please envision something. Imagine Smash without Ganondorf, pretend that Ganondorf was never in Smash and that Black Shadow was the Falcondorf that we know today.

I presume you see where I am going with this. Ganondorf is one of the most unique characters for Smash 4, it is just so unfortunate that he doesn't have his own move-set... if only he could impute it to someone. IF ONLY!

Meowth, he is one of the most prominent Pokemon villains pertinent to the series. He is ideal based on the notion that he is entirely iconic, important, and popular. One has to consider, what can Meowth actually do? Meowth has a myriad of gadgets used in the popular anime, something that associates him with relevance. The plethora of items he could utilize during a battle is staggering, you could go almost any direction you wanted to. Rocket Launchers, Nets, Cages, Robots, Punching Gloves, Balloons, Disguises/Costumes (this could be an entirely new mechanic, I am mostly alluding to Toro Inoue), Spring Shoes, Jet-packs, Grappling, Deflectors/Shields, Boomerangs, Traps... um... digging holes? You could also be more subtle and give him Coin-esque attacks and generic clawing for neutrals. His Final Smash might include his infamous Hot-Air Balloon.

I don't like the idea, but they could even include elements or aspects of Team Rocket in his character.

His move-set potential is utterly phenomenal... perhaps even... remarkable. This is only in addition to his role as the main villain, something everyone wants more of. He is also the spiritual rival of Pikachu (inverted Pokedex numbers alluding to cat and mouse) and he was apparently designed after Satoshi Tajiri's cat.

ToothiestAura · Feb 4, 2014

I think this going to boil-down to who can come up with the most unique moveset/playstyle for a character.

Also, people's opinions on what's "unique" or "good" are going differ. If you're serious about implementing some sort of tier system, I don't think one person's opinions will be good enough. There should be votes for what tier a character belongs to, either by a mass vote or by a small, hand-picked panel of judges.

That said, it's probably safe to put Rosalina in the S-Tier, but this topic is more for potential newcomers.

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

ToothiestAura said:
I think this going to boil-down to who can come up with the most unique moveset/playstyle for a character.

Also, people's opinion on what's "unique" or "good" are going differ. If you're serious about implementing some sort of tier system, I don't think one person's opinions will be good enough. There should be votes for what tier a character belongs to, either by a mass vote or by small, hand-picked panel of judges.

That said, it's probably safe to put Rosalina in the S-Tier, but this topic is more for potential newcomers.

That was my plan.
I'm not simply putting characters into tiers based on what one person has to say.
In fact I may even give different characters special days in which we discuss them and ultimately place them in a tier.
It's a group effort.

Gune · Feb 4, 2014

Unique as in playstyle? Playstyle gimmick? or both?

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

Gune said:
Unique as in playstyle? Playstyle gimmick? or both?

Both.
A playstyle that hasn't yet been seen, or is completely unique compared to the other Smashers, or a playstyle gimmick like Rosalina's, or possibly Little Mac's star system.
Either would do.

Edit: Also take into account possible moveset overhauls.

BluePikmin11 · Feb 4, 2014

THE OFFICIAL UNIQUENESS CRITERIA
These questions are optional, but it can really help you on delving into every area
of the certain character's uniqueness. Totally recommended to answer them in the
best way possible.

1. How many diverse options does this character have?

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?

3a. If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?

6. Does the moves and abilities fit the character well enough?

ToothiestAura · Feb 4, 2014

Louie G. said:
That was my plan.
I'm not simply putting characters into tiers based on what one person has to say.
In fact I may even give different characters special days in which we discuss them and ultimately place them in a tier.
It's a group effort.

Good. So, a group vote based on the participants in this topic?

UltimateWario · Feb 4, 2014

Anooother one of theeeeeese.

~whoops~

Gune · Feb 4, 2014

Louie G. said:
Both.
A playstyle that hasn't yet been seen, or is completely unique compared to the other Smashers, or a playstyle gimmick like Rosalina's, or possibly Little Mac's star system.
Either would do.

hmm... so PT, Zelda/sheik, Olimar, Lucario, IC, Samus, rosalina, Megaman, Kirby, Pichu, little mac (possibly).....Did i forget anyone else?

Sabrewulf238 · Feb 4, 2014

I feel like what a character can bring to the fight depends more on what the moveset creator can bring to the character.

I for one didn't really put much stock in Rosalina as a playable character before her reveal, if you had asked me what she'd bring to the table I would have said something like "fan pleasure and little else".

You could make the blandest moveset in the world for Isaac and just have him shoot clay and hands all over the stage while waving his sword about at every opportunity......or you could incorporate more varied earth based attacks, utility psyenergy and also Djinn. It depends on how well you know the series and how willing you are to see what it's offering. (Generally speaking, not just Golden Sun)

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

Sabrewulf238 said:
It depends on how well you know the series and how willing you are to see what it's offering.

Exactly. The experts on the series are who should be pushing for a character's uniqueness, convincing everyone else why and how this character could work.

UltimateWario said:
Anooother one of theeeeeese.
~whoops~

Well hopefully this one's a little different than the others.
I'm turning it into a little game.

ToothiestAura said:
Good. So, a group vote based on the participants in this topic?

Essentially, yes.

lordvaati · Feb 4, 2014

One character that could be interesting is Chibi Robo, as they could create some unique mechanic involving his Battery mostly controlling his overall moveset and damage input, kind of like how Robo-Ky does with his Overheat meter in Guilty Gear.

BluePikmin11 · Feb 4, 2014

So were not following a uniqueness criteria? Alrighty then..

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

BluePikmin11 said:
So were not following a uniqueness criteria? Alrighty then..

What do you mean?
Any character has at least some potential to be unique, it just depends on who is willing to find it.
There's no criteria needed.

BluePikmin11 · Feb 4, 2014

Well if he wanted the most unique characters, Sakurai would have to go into specifics. If we just leave it at just having some potential for characters, we won't find out the most unique characters Sakurai may choose. But we could go into specifics on who is the most unique in each category like most unique retro.

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

BluePikmin11 said:
Well if he wanted the most unique characters, Sakurai would have to go into specifics. If we just leave it at just having some potential for characters, we won't find out the most unique characters Sakurai may choose. But we could go into specifics on who is the most unique in each category like most unique retro.

Oh, I see what you mean.
Well, it seems like Sakurai wants every character to fall into their little niche this time. If a character could bring a very interesting mechanic never before seen, then Sakurai may consider said character. Sure, it isn't likely that, say, Mario gets 8 reps, but there could just be a whole bunch of unique Mario characters. Uniqueness doesn't absolutely dictate how likely a character is, but it could possibly. Do you understand what I mean?
And we can compare to fighters already included. How similar a character is compared to another may dictate their uniqueness.

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

So does anyone want to nominate a character that we can start with?
If we can't decide I'll take it upon myself to choose one.

BluePikmin11 · Feb 4, 2014

Yeah you can be the most unique choice like the Stork or Tiki, but they don't really feel notable enough to be considered by Sakurai. At least be notable in some form.
Oh and yeah we are comparing previous characters too. I have no idea we should nominate. Start with Little Mac?

ToothiestAura · Feb 4, 2014

BluePikmin11 said:
Yeah you can be the most unique choice like the Stork or Tiki, but they don't really feel notable enough to be considered by Sakurai. At least be notable in some form.
Oh and yeah we are comparing previous characters too. I have no idea we should nominate. Start with Little Mac?

Little Mac is probably a good starting point. Starting with the most popular choices for newcomers seems like a good way to work.

Louie G. said:
So does anyone want to nominate a character that we can start with?
If we can't decide I'll take it upon myself to choose one.

I think we should come up with criteria for the tiers themselves first (Or at least before we get to voting).
Or at least come up with an example of an existing character who fits in said tier. For example, Rosalina as S-Tier uniqueness. Or Dr. Mario as F-Tier uniqueness.

Erotic&Heretic · Feb 4, 2014

If I had to go for guest, I'd say a stripping witch who is able to slow down time is pretty unique.

For Nintendo characters, I'd say Midona and Wolf Link, as she would be the only character with a mount. It's more visual uniqueness this time, though it can provide unique gameplay, I think.

lordvaati · Feb 4, 2014

I guess I'll nominate Chibi.

when I come up with a better discussion of possible mechanics I'll update later.

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

Alright, good plan @

ToothiestAura .
So who do you think would fall into what tiers?
I would certainly place Rosalina in S.
Peach, Pikachu, and Sonic in A, since they are basically completely unique characters with almost no moves derived from others.
Jigglypuff, Luigi, and Wolf in B, since they have some similarities with existing fighters but are ultimately different enough.
Falco and Lucas in C, since they share a variety of moves with a counterpart and also have similar stats to said character.
Maybe characters like Roy or Pichu in D, since their attacks do different things than their counterparts, but ultimately they are very similar.
And F is full fledged clone.

Give me feedback guys, anything you want to change?
This is just an outline, remember.

Depressed Gengar · Feb 4, 2014

Well, Mach Rider could have a mount to.

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

Erotic&Heretic said:
For Nintendo characters, I'd say Midona and Wolf Link, as she would be the only character with a mount. It's more visual uniqueness this time, though it can provide unique gameplay, I think.

KingShadow said:
Well, Mach Rider could have a mount to.

See, now here's a discussion.
Maybe we should discuss characters before we make this a game, unless you guys just want to jump right into it.

Erotic&Heretic · Feb 4, 2014

Ah, yes, somehow I forgot about Mach Rider, another character I want.
But it's a vehicule, it's not exactly the same :troll:

AEMehr · Feb 4, 2014

So when can I discuss Muddy Mole?? I just whipped up a snazzy moveset for him earlier today.

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

Ariand/AEM said:
So when can I discuss Muddy Mole?? I just whipped up a snazzy moveset for him earlier today.

Post it here, maybe it can get people interested in Muddy.
I find him hideously underrated.

BluePikmin11 · Feb 4, 2014

We should start with the newcomers from Rate Your Chances Returns:

1. Little Mac (Punch-Out!!): DAY 81: (88.11% chance, 77.00% want); DAY 12: (83.59% chance, 73.22% want)
2. Palutena (Kid Icarus): DAY 141: (81.66% chance, 75.07% want); DAY 97: (70.69% chance, 74.37% want); DAY 2: (76.35% chance, 77.22% want)
3. King K. Rool (Donkey Kong): DAY 89: (74.36% chance, 84.47% want); DAY 5: (72.48% chance, 78.57% want)
4. Ridley (Metroid): DAY 80: (71.38% chance, 84.80% want); DAY 44: (69.95% chance, 84.13% want); DAY 3: (71.1% chance, 78.73% want)
5. Takamaru (Nazu no Murasamejou): 59.54% chance, 52.82% want
6. Mii (Wii Series): 57.08% chance, 27.40% want
7. Shulk (Xenoblade): Day 136: (55.76% chance, 67.20% want); Day ???: (49.58% chance, 61.12% want)
8. Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong): DAY 65: (55.39% chance, 40.60% want); DAY 7: (57.38% chance, 50.17% want)
9. Pac-Man (Pac-Man): 54.99% chance, 34.79% want
10. Chrom (Fire Emblem): DAY 125: (44.56% chance, 31.46% want); DAY 25: (69.65% chance, 57.27% want)

Ariand/AEM said:
So when can I discuss Muddy Mole?? I just whipped up a snazzy moveset for him earlier today.

Maybe we should start on what the character offers first. Maybe when we get to picking the most unique retro.

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

Also a character's uniqueness should not be reflected in their attacks alone.
It should also be their weapon of choice and stats that are considered.

OctiVick · Feb 4, 2014

I guess for now I'll nominate Slime as a unique character for discussion.

I think out of most 3rd parties he would have something pretty new to bring to the table. ^/////^

Hippopotasauce · Feb 4, 2014

The Wrestler of Rhythm Heaven can have a wrestling-based grappler moveset. Think professional wrestling - but as a character.
Any of the other Rhythm Heaven characters can have timing based specials and smash attacks, like Melee Marth's Dancing Blade.
Karate Joe could do karate but that's not terribly interesting.

ToothiestAura · Feb 4, 2014

Louie G. said:
Alright, good plan @ ToothiestAura .
So who do you think would fall into what tiers?
I would certainly place Rosalina in S.
Peach, Pikachu, and Sonic in A, since they are basically completely unique characters with almost no moves derived from others.
Jigglypuff, Luigi, and Wolf in B, since they have some similarities with existing fighters but are ultimately different enough.
Falco and Lucas in C, since they share a variety of moves with a counterpart and also have similar stats to said character.
Maybe characters like Roy or Pichu in D, since their attacks do different things than their counterparts, but ultimately they are very similar.
And F is full fledged clone.

Give me feedback guys, anything you want to change?
This is just an outline, remember.

S Tier:
Characters in league of their own. Characters with such varied movesets, unique abilities and playstyles that you can't contain excitement about playing as them. Rosalina for sure, possibly Megaman?

A Tier:
Characters who are wholly unique, but not quite as incredible as S-Tier members. This would include characters who had unique ideas that were not implemented as well as they could have been (i,e. Lucario in Brawl).

B Tier:
Characters that are unique, but not groundbreaking. Nothing truly new is added in terms of mechanics, playstyle or abilities. But the character is far from a clone.
(Mario?)

C Tier:
Character ideas that aren't entirely unique. C-Tier members would include characters with uninspired or generic A moves. Even if some of their B moves are unique. (Ike? Jiggs?)

D Tier:
The Luigi Tier. Characters who have a lot in common with other characters, but vary with stats, hitboxes, attributes,certain moves, etc.
Semi-clones would fall here.

F Tier:
Full on clones. These characters are essentially reskins. With some slight alterations.

General guidelines, of course. If a character represents his series perfectly (or close) or something along those lines it may be grounds to bump them up a tier.

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

I agree with Blue, we should probably start with the Top 10 from RTC.
That would be Little Mac, Palutena, K. Rool, Ridley, Takamaru, Mii, Shulk, Dixie Kong, Pac-Man, and Chrom.

@

ToothiestAura
I like it! Personally, I wouldn't group Luigi in D Tier though (if only because of my personal bias).
Characters like Luigi or Wolf really don't have that much in common with the characters besides a few moves, so I would personally put them in C Tier and save D Tier for characters like Roy or Pichu.

Cpt. · Feb 4, 2014

Well every character could bring something new to the table depending on what Sakurai does with them/how much time he spend creating them.

I can see character like Ridley, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Krystal, Pac-Man, and Isaac all being very unique characters.

and Alfonzo as a unique stage hazard...

BluePikmin11 · Feb 4, 2014

Though personally I would save Takamaru for later when we get along to rate specifically retros. I think there a whole unique category on their own, and I think one or two of them could be chosen. So we should rate the notable retros soon.

Louie G. · Feb 4, 2014

BluePikmin11 said:
Though personally I would save Takamaru for later when we get along to rate specifically retros. I think there a whole unique category on their own, and I think one or two of them could be chosen. So we should rate the notable retros soon.

So maybe we should start with the Elite Four.
K. Rool, Ridley, Little Mac, and Palutena.

BluePikmin11 · Feb 4, 2014

Yup let's go start with those 4.
Make sure you guys bring up as many moves the character can offer as much as possible, I don't want to miss a move that could make the character interesting.

The Uniqueness Tier List: Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Shulk, and Meta-Knight

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