The ULTIMATE Probable Playable Characters In Brawl Analysis Topic!(1 week til Brawl!)

[Staz]

3 dayzz oh em gee

 

[ChronoBound]

A sticker of Sukapon can be seen in the Iwata Asks Volume 5 Sticker Video. However, I don't think a sticker necessarily deconfirms a character, though it does hurt his chances. Okay, I got around to the massive update. I placed Ness back in with the likely contenders, and I also tweaked the analyses for Marth, Jigglypuff, and Lucario due to recent developments. Finally, I made an analysis for R.O.B.

In the latest update, Sakurai is bragging about the amount of content in Brawl. For someone so quick to brag about the amount of content in Brawl, Sakurai sure does like holding off showing the character selection screen. However, I do believe that the character selection screen was leaked, and according to it, there are no question mark blocks on it. If Sakurai is really that persistant on keeping the number of characters secret, then I really think the 35 is our roster number. Many people were expecting at least 40 characters, including Japanese Smash fans. A roster that does not make that amount might make Sakurai anxious that it might deflate hype for Brawl for quite a few people.

 

[The rAt]

In the latest update, Sakurai is bragging about the amount of content in Brawl. For someone so quick to brag about the amount of content in Brawl, Sakurai sure does like holding off showing the character selection screen. However, I do believe that the character selection screen was leaked, and according to it, there are no question mark blocks on it. If Sakurai is really that persistant on keeping the number of characters secret, then I really think the 35 is our roster number. Many people were expecting at least 40 characters, including Japanese Smash fans. A roster that does not make that amount might make Sakurai anxious that it might deflate hype for Brawl for quite a few people.

That's certainly one way of reading it. However, you could just as easily say he's holding off on the character select screen because there are still surprises he doesn't want to give away yet. His wanting to be secretive could just as easily be because he wants to retain some intrigue for the Japanese gamers who'll be getting it in three days. If he gives a solid number, let's say 38, (just as an example), then when the first person who gets to 38 has the full roster and can start spreading it around the internet. However, if he doesn't give a full list or number until well after the game comes out, people won't know for certain if there's another character burried somewhere deep in the game until he chooses to reveal that information. If there's a particularly difficult to find character in the game, that one would not discover without some hint from him, then he can maintain the mystery and surprise well after the game is released. That's personally how I would read it.

To be honest, I wouldn't really expect official word from Sakurai giving the exact number of characters until closer to, if not on or after, the American release date. But that's just me.

On a side note, leaked Character Select screen? Really? Can you post a link?

 

[ChronoBound]

That's certainly one way of reading it. However, you could just as easily say he's holding off on the character select screen because there are still surprises he doesn't want to give away yet. His wanting to be secretive could just as easily be because he wants to retain some intrigue for the Japanese gamers who'll be getting it in three days. If he gives a solid number, let's say 38, (just as an example), then when the first person who gets to 38 has the full roster and can start spreading it around the internet. However, if he doesn't give a full list or number until well after the game comes out, people won't know for certain if there's another character burried somewhere deep in the game until he chooses to reveal that information. If there's a particularly difficult to find character in the game, that one would not discover without some hint from him, then he can maintain the mystery and surprise well after the game is released. That's personally how I would read it.

To be honest, I wouldn't really expect official word from Sakurai giving the exact number of characters until closer to, if not on or after, the American release date. But that's just me.

On a side note, leaked Character Select screen? Really? Can you post a link?

I still think the reason why he is holding off is due to their being only 35 characters.

Also, here is a link to a video showing the starting roster, which basically contains all of the characters on the Doojo minus Snake and Sonic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VxrQiCz4_o

There is also a sticker of Ray MKII in today's update, though since it is not the latest model, I don't think it really affects his chances.

Finally, I will posting my wishlist roster either later today or tomorrow. I am still surprised no one has their hands on the game yet.

 

[RandomGuy42]

Chrono, your size tag and grammar are broken in the "Overall Analysis (Pokemon)" section.

 

[ChronoBound]

Chrono, your size tag and grammar are broken in the "Overall Analysis (Pokemon)" section.

Thanks for the heads up. I just fixed it.

 

[Erimir]

Also, here is a link to a video showing the starting roster, which basically contains all of the characters on the Doojo minus Snake and Sonic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VxrQiCz4_o

I don't think this "leak" is all that credible at this point. This person supposedly has the game, yet all they have shown us is videos of menus. They are all menus that already have been shown or could easily be composed with the information we have now. The only thing about it that suggests it might be real is the Zelda/Sheik picture.

If this person really has had the game for over a week now, they would most likely have a large portion of the roster unlocked, including some characters that haven't been revealed on the Dojo yet. And also they would have many of the challenges unlocked, which could be another way to show that they really have the game. And yet they have shown nothing. I mean, just because of that, I've ceased to care about this "leaker". What's the point if it's only three days away from the release, when we'll get real, credible and :gasp: high quality videos (not low quality 10 second bull****) showing stuff we don't already know all about?

We shall see, but I don't think that video confirms anything. It could be correct, but I see no reason to assume so.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Wasn't Ray MK on a document detailing ATs?

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

anyone else notice the 2 paper mario stickers in today's update? (it was paper mario style kamek, and the p-up badge). Anyone else think that means something, or is it just me trying to convince myself paper mario will be in brawl?

 

[IsmaR]

That's Kammy, not Kamek
And Chrono, didn't you say Hong Kong should be getting the game today/tommorrow?(It's already night over there, isn't it?)

 

[SmashChu]

I still think the reason why he is holding off is due to their being only 35 characters.

That's not a very good rebuttle.

Of course, your reading to much into it. I mean, couldn't it just be that he want to keep it secret so that no one knows how many characters are left. It doesn't have to be becuase there are too few. He may just want to hide it so people don't know the final number, and have no clue what they are getting. He has been secretive on everything. Why would this be any different.

Also, here is a link to a video showing the starting roster, which basically contains all of the characters on the Doojo minus Snake and Sonic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VxrQiCz4_o

It doesn't confirm anything. The "leaker" has yet to show anything that hasn't been shown on the Dojo. Not to mention that the background of the names is the wrong color in those videos.

My List
(assuming the starting roster is everyone on the Dojo but Sonic and Snake)
Capt. Falcon
Ness
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Falco
Ganondorf
Krystal
Ridley
Sonic
Snake
One other character no one will guess (wasn't on the poll more then once)

 

[SmashChu]

I still think the reason why he is holding off is due to their being only 35 characters.

That's not a very good rebuttle.

Of course, your reading to much into it. I mean, couldn't it just be that he want to keep it secret so that no one knows how many characters are left. It doesn't have to be becuase there are too few. He may just want to hide it so people don't know the final number, and have no clue what they are getting. He has been secretive on everything. Why would this be any different.

Also, here is a link to a video showing the starting roster, which basically contains all of the characters on the Doojo minus Snake and Sonic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VxrQiCz4_o

It doesn't confirm anything. The "leaker" has yet to show anything that hasn't been shown on the Dojo. Not to mention that the background of the names is the wrong color in those videos.

My List
(assuming the starting roster is everyone on the Dojo but Sonic and Snake)
Capt. Falcon
Ness
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Falco
Ganondorf
Krystal
Ridley
Sonic
Snake
One other character no one will guess (wasn't on the poll more then once)

 

[ChronoBound]

That's Kammy, not Kamek
And Chrono, didn't you say Hong Kong should be getting the game today/tommorrow?(It's already night over there, isn't it?)

Yeah, Hong Kong should be getting the game tomorrow. I think we will be getting our first roster leaks tomorrow. If not tomorrow, definitely on Wednesday.

 

[JhMS]

Just want to say that I really enjoy this thread and I will miss it.Great work ChronoBound.
____________________________________
Only a few days and the whole characters wars will rest.Im waiting for Ridley(unless the 35 thing is correct),Claus,Wolf,Isaac,Falco and Rool.

 

[IkexMarth]

Marth is in Brawl!!!!! I'm not joking go to the brawl central rumor forum!!!!

 

[JhMS]

Yes,its true.The 35 roster gets bigger and bigger.
On the other hand,Marth was very predictable.

 

[ChronoBound]

I just seen a screenshot with Luigi, so he is confirmed (along with Marth).

Its only a matter of time until the entire 35 character roster is confirmed to be the real deal.

 

[IsmaR]

Captain Falcon...and BOMBERMAN CONFIRMED?!

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

...That Bomberman art is definitely not made for Brawl. It was from an older Bomberman game for the N64 I believe.

 

[Deleted member]

My source has been correct on three out of four of the things I said (though they WERE the most obvious ones). *Waits for R.O.B.*

 

[SmashChu]

Confirmed so far
Jigglypuff
Ness
C. Falcon
Luigi
Marth
Falco
Lucario
R.O.B(not the Starfox one)

 

[Zoo-bellocks]

I was really hoping I wouldn't have to post this, but it seems like there's nowhere to run.

I'm writing this at 3:14 in the morning on the 28th. If I post this, it means that our worst fears have been totally confirmed about the leaked roster. I will copy and paste this saved document straight into the topic unedited as soon as/if the roster is revealed to be the one we dread. This will be my final post on Smashboards, and it's a long read. Whether or not anyone reads it means little to me, but I just need to get it off my chest. But I REALLY, REALLY hope that I will be able to delete this document instead.

First of all, here are the reasons I'm writing this:

1. To vent frustration

2. It's late and I can't sleep

3. To maybe help people understand why exactly I (and countless others) are disappointed

There are always the people who say "well you should at least be grateful for blah blah blah", or "quit whining" (because apparently expressing displeasure at something on the internet automatically makes you a big whiner). You know what? I'm glad that some people can see just the good in everything, but it really gets tiring to listen to them. I'm here to talk about the bad. I don't deny there is good in this game, but it's totally beside my point.

A little history; I loved Smash ever since the first time I saw the commercial. You know, the one with the Turtles music. It was hilarious. At the time, I wasn't even a big Nintendo fan. I had played some Star Fox, Metroid, Zelda, and I loved Mario and Yoshi, but the only franchises I would have considered myself a fan of at the time were Pokemon and Donkey Kong.

I didn't have an N64, so the first time I played it was when I rented it at my cousin's. And I loved it. For the time I was there, I played the crap out of the game. After that, it went out of my life for awhile.

The next time I played it was a few years later in Grade 8, when I found out my friend had it. I had "outgrown" Pokemon by then, so the only character I used anymore was DK. It was always DK vs Link (my friend's top choice). After a few months of playing, I learned of the upcoming Super Smash Bros. Melee. I didn't really care about it much since there weren't really any characters I wanted besides Donkey Kong, but hey, a new Smash game? I'll take it. I didn't ever go on message boards or keep up with gaming news at all, so there was no hype for me to buy into. And shortly after Christmas, I went to my friend's to play his new gift.

It was weird how little difference we noticed. I couldn't even really appreciate the new graphics. It just seemed like the 64 version with new stages. Bowser, Peach, and Zelda seemed like good additions, but other than that, I didn't care about the rest of the characters at all, and was totally oblivious to the massive disappointment that occured. There was nothing to disappoint me, because I didn't have any expectations of it. Nowadays, when I look back at those old IGN threads about character speculation, I can almost feel their pain. Nintendo announced ahead of time that there would be more than 20 characters, and eventually they confirmed it would be 11 unlockables. I still can't help but smile at the characters people expected, as cruel as it seems. Their lists usually included Wario, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Ridley, Wolf (I find it pretty funny how popular he was considering all we had ever seen of him was his head), and Pit among others. The only characters that made the cut that at least some people agreed on were Mewtwo, Falco, and Marth (better known as Prince Mars in those days). Apparently, Nintendo didn't tell them about the clones.

Now let's go to 2005. At this point, I'm a pretty big Nintendo fan (and a pretty big gamer as usual). When I found out about the SSB Revolution, there was a lot more for me to get excited about. The top of the list (it has since changed) for me was Krystal and Ridley; 2 characters I had really grown to like in their games. I was also rooting for Wario and Diddy Kong too, but not as much (and they were obvious shoo-ins anyway).

Over the next 2 years, there were many other characters I came want as I was introduced to more games. I had Smash Bros. on the mind. All these possibilities and great character ideas. Yet, since E3 2005, we had pretty much been deprived us of info. Finally, in E3 2006, the glorious trailer was unvield. Wow, 5 newcomers already? We only knew 5 Melee newcomers (counting Sheik) when Melee was just about to come out, as that was all that was in the starting roster. This game must be huge. I wasn't too impressed by the additions of Zero Suit Samus and Snake, but still, it looked like they're making a lot of progress already.

It was all quiet again for quite awhile, aside from the Nintendo World demo. Then the daily updates began. When I first saw that counter counting down the days until the new website launched, I went totally giddy. No joke. And so, over the course of the next several months, we saw 7 more newcomers join Brawl. Man, if this is how many they're showing us now, then there must be tons of new secret characters, right?

Well, according to several "reliable" sources, the answer was no. Only 4 (at the time of writing, it's 4, but if "Toon Link" or "WW Link" turns out to be called Young Link, then it's 3) newcomers left, and we unlock a bunch of veterans. I won't bother listing the roster since we should all know it.

Before I rag about what's wrong with the roster, I'll take a minute to say what I like about the newcomers. I LOVE the addition of Lucas. Mother 3 was such a great game. However, I know I shouldn't get attached considering he'll never appear in another game again. Also, I'm very glad Wario, Meta Knight, Pit, King Dedede, Olimar, and Ike got in. I don't necessarily like those characters, and have little desire to play as any of them, but they definitely deserved it.

Now, here's what I think is wrong with the roster (and no, it isn't just because some of my favourite characters didn't get in):

Zero Suit Samus. She looks fun to play as, but she's such a waste. Metroid needs more proper character rep, rather than just having Samus without her suit. The only game where a suitless Samus was even relevent to the plot was Zero Mission, and it was only for a short time.

Pokemon Trainer. The funny thing is, Red (the character PT is obviously supposed to be) was one of my most wanted characters. I was so excited when I first saw him, but became slightly less so when I found out how he worked. Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard may enjoy some popularity, but they are definitely not worthy of being playable in Brawl, and had little support previously. THREE character spots were wasted on this trio. THREE more deserving characters could have gone in their place.

Star Fox representation. At the time of writing this, I don't know the status of clones. I'll assume for this that Wolf and Falco both have original move sets (which I find somewhat unlikely due to how shallow the Star Fox move set pool is). I'll have an alternate situation later down where I assume that one is a clone. Seriously, why not Krystal? She's extremely popular, very important (Star Fox Adventures and Star Fox Command both revolved almost exclusively around Fox and Krystal), and her move set practically writes itself. There is SO MUCH potential in the staff. And yet, Brawl's team instead just pulled more move sets out of their *** to make Wolf and Falco. Sakurai suggested that he wanted more females (specifically, he said he was happy to include ZSS because Smash lacked girls) and Krystal seemed like such a totally obvious choice. You'd have to be totally blind to overlook her. What were they thinking?

Ness and Jigglypuff. While I don't really have much against these characters, they really have overstayed their welcome. Sakurai is just keeping them for the sake of meaningless tradition. They are no longer relevant characters.

Sheik. There is absolutely NO NEED for Sheik. She was a one shot minor character who will never appear in another Zelda game. If she wasn't God Tier in Melee, no one would have ever wanted her back. The transformation gimmick was neat (but unnecessary) in Melee, but it is no longer unique.

Snake. I can barely believe it. Sakurai knows there is only room for so many characters, but apparently, there's enough room to waste doing his close friend Kojima a personal favour and putting his character in the game. Nobody but Kojima seriously wanted Snake to appear, but he made it JUST because of his connections to Sakurai. That's downright ridiculous in my opinion. Snake has no place in Brawl. No, not because he doesn't "fit", but he has so little history with them. Plus, he opened the door for (ugh) Sonic.

The cutting of Mewtwo. Why? I mean, seriously, why? Some have said that it's because it's too hard to balance Mewtwo without making him too weak (which is a poor representation of him) or too over-powered (which he is supposed to be). But who gives a crap if he's weak? He's fun to play with. It doesn't make any less sense than Ness, who has absolutely insane power in his game. If Sakurai can take liberties with continuity by making what is obviously the Twilight Princess version of Zelda transform into a character exclusive to the Ocarina of Time Zelda, he can live with putting in a weak, or moderately powered Mewtwo.

Toon Link. I will NEVER understand this thing's appeal. Yay, another Link. I'm sure there aren't any better characters that could have been put in instead. I mean, seriously.

Olimar. As I said, I like Olimar and I'm pretty happy to see him get in, but Pikmin should NOT have taken priority over other older and larger franchises which have not gotten character rep, like Nintendo Wars, Custom Robo, or even Panel de Pon/Puzzle League. I think he really butted in line here.

Now, about the clones...

Again, I don't know if there are any in Brawl. But just for a minute, I'm going to assume that either Wolf or Falco is a clone, or Toon Link, or that Ness didn't get a total move set revamp.

Why didn't Sakurai put MORE clones in? What's so special about Ness, Falco/Wolf, or Toon Link that makes them alone worthy of being clones? Clones are easy to make and could have made so many more fans happier. Why not keep Roy as a clone? Why not stick Black Shadow in as the new C. Falcon clone? There are plenty of other examples too. Just a tiny bit of extra effort could have made this game's roster seem a lot better.

Character representation is extremely imbalanced. Mario, Nintendo's best selling, most famous, and most iconic series has less reps than Pokemon and Zelda. Unless Luigi gets a complete move set revamp, Mario will have 3.5 move sets, while Pokemon has 6 and Zelda has 5 (unless WW Link is a clone). Not only does Mario not gain any new reps, it even LOSES one. Star Fox getting more reps than Donkey Kong, Wario and Metroid? That's just straight up Bull.

Sakurai's priorities in general were messed up. He put WAY too much time into the adventure mode at expense of improving multi-player. So much more could have been done to multi-player rather than wasting time and resources on an enormous single player. Don't get me wrong, I think a solid adventure mode would have been fine, but they really overdid it. In a year, no one will be playing the Subspace Emissary anymore. It'll all be about the multiplayer. Sakurai also seemed too hung up on including characters on the battlefield that he went a little nuts with the assist trophies. Also a waste. In moderation, it would be fine, but too many and it takes away from other more important aspects, such as including more PLAYABLE fighters.

I'm kind of glad that this is at least Sakurai's last game. I'm grateful that Sakurai created the series in the first place, but this roster is proof that he isn't essential to make a game. Yes, this is HIS vision. I understand that. The problem though, is that his vision should not get in the way of what most of the people who will be shelling out 50 dollars for this game want. Hopefully whoever takes over the Smash Bros. series will put their biases aside and try harder to please the masses. I remember reading an interview done at E3 2006 where Sakurai said that he and Miyamoto were in disagreement over whether or not Smash should have a strong single player mode or concentrate on multiplayer. I know Miyamoto is a busy guy, but maybe he should take a crack at the next Smash Bros.

There's some more I wanted to rant about (like including the stage creator at the cost of original Nintendo based stages), but I'm tired of typing.

In closing, these are the reasons why I'm disappointed with Brawl. Of course, not everyone will share all my reasons, but I'm sure they'll share at least some of them. If you can see the silver linings, or if you're happy with the roster as it is, good for you. I'm truly glad. But don't act like douches to people who are disappointed. They have their reasons for disliking the roster, just as you have reasons for liking it. I'm sure most will get the game anyway, maybe even I'll pick it up in a few years. Nonetheless, I've learned my lesson and I won't get myself hyped up for something like this again. I'm just glad I can put these last 2 and a half years of waiting and hoping behind me and get on with my life.

So, good-bye everyone (for real this time). I might log in to check PMs for a few days, and then I'm done here forever.

And I have a few additional thoughts as well...

Seriously, I am beyond disappointed at this. Despite the few days I've had to prepare for it, it still hurts. This is far worse than the Melee roster. Melee kind of snuck up on us. We knew the roster about 8 months after it was announced. With Brawl, it was close to 3 years.

I suppose I have to blame myself for buying into thie hype, but it is Nintendo's fault as well. They could have told us what to expect. They kept the number of characters hidden to the end. With Melee, we knew how many characters to expect beforehand. The thing that disappointed people was that most of the characters were clones. Brawl's roster sucks for different reasons. It has fewer if any clones, but very few secret newcomers.

What's even a worse kick in the face from Nintendo is that Nya was right about the fact that they were planning on delaying the game AGAIN far before it was announced. Nintendo doesn't have the balls to deliver the bad news all at once, so it gives us a date they KNOW they won't live up to again. I'm ashamed to be a Nintendo fan right now.

I used to think that there would be nothing to stop me from getting this game. If someone had told me last year that I would be cancelling my preorder, I'd say they're absolutely nuts. And here I find myself doing just that.

Well Game Arts, you managed to make a game even more disappointing than Grandia III. Good job. This time, however, you won't get my cash.

By the way, I know this sounds dramatic, but in the real world, I'm handling this pretty well. After all, the internet is a great place to relieve stress, is it not?

Anyway, I'm out.

 

[SmashChu]

What is strange is this. 36 was always the number I thought it would be, and it turns out it's one less then that.

There are 34 of 35 right now. I'd be happy if that last one was Krystal (why pass up a worthy female when we have the chance to finally add a great one). The size doesn't bug me. Quality, kind of. I am against Wolf and Toon Link, but I'll probably have to live with the latter. I hope it's Krystal to round it out a bit. This roster feels way to clony to me.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Sakurai said not to expect as big of a roster increase as Melee had.

Hell, an SWF member, SamuraiPanda, stated that Sakurai said that.

At no point did Sakurai NOT give a hint as to how many to expect. He never gave anything to indicate how many characters we would get, people just got their hopes waaay too high. Don't blame Sakurai for something that you created.

And Wolf is definitely in... He's the very first newcomer that Markman confirmed, and as we can see, the roster has a special seat for Wolf.

 

[SmashChu]

And Wolf is definitely in... He's the very first newcomer that Markman confirmed, and as we can see, the roster has a special seat for Wolf.

Or Krystal. Just put all your eggs in one basket. You may never know.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

The fact that he was spot-on, balls-to-the-wall accurate with every other character, and said that Ridley was not in, does not bode well for Krystal at all.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

The fact that he was spot-on, balls-to-the-wall accurate with every other character, and said that Ridley was not in, does not bode well for Krystal at all.

 

[RandomGuy42]

I still can't believe this topic was the first to have the 35 character roster with us.

Also, whining and shouting about how you going to "cancel your pre-order" just makes you look stupid. -_-

 

[Lecto2007]

I just cant believe wolf is a clone