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The truth about "Competition"

Puffer

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
171
Melee is more competitive than Brawl. How do you quantify this? You can’t. Is baseball more competitive than football? Is poker more competitive than golf? You can say that one game’s competition is greater than another. Both Brawl and Melee are competitive, just in different ways.
I stand by this guy - the above statement pretty much sums it all up, I guess. I said before that Melee was "more competitive" because it had "more material for players to focus on", but now that I think about it, a game is only competitive if its players MAKE it competitive. Melee would never have been the game if it was without the loyalty and effort of its players, and I think Brawl will be the same way.

So let's leave it at that - BOTH games will be highly competitive, provided that both games have a strong, loyal base of players that will KEEP them competitive.

In fact, if you look at the grand masters of competitive gaming (StarCraft, Street Fighter, WarCraft, Counter-Strike, etc.), the ONE thing that they all had in common was a strong, unified group of players that launched each game to great competitive heights. Brawl requires that same thing - a dedicated group of players to push its gameplay higher and higher until it hits the spotlight and receives the competitive attention it deserves.

By the way, good job to the OP and to all the posters - you guys just convinced me that Brawl does, indeed, have competitive appeal. Thanks.
 

Rufeo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
59
Some guy standing at the edge doing nothing but smashing isn't the same as one guy having a rocket launcher while your stuck with a pistol. And when you play competitively you don't play 4 player free for alls.
 

Lixivium

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
2,689
Melee is more competitive than Brawl. How do you quantify this? You can’t. Is baseball more competitive than football? Is poker more competitive than golf? You can say that one game’s competition is greater than another. Both Brawl and Melee are competitive, just in different ways.
Sure you can. Example:

Baseball is more competitive than teeball.

Table tennis is more competitive than Pong.

Golf is more competitive than minigolf.

It's not that hard.
 

PhillCollins

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2004
Messages
425
I'm a little confused here, do more people believe this game isn't made for competitive play?
Is it the old good melee players that believe the game isn't made for competitive play? Or is it just random nonsense?

I don't have time to read all of these multiple threads on the subject.
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
You must not have played that many videogames if you think Guitar Hero is the only game out there without a random element in it. I could name 20 off the top of my head.
 

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
12,731
Location
Bellevue, Washington
so POINT: We are all randomly born with different abilities naturaly, so you can never consider "yourself" "better" than someone else, because they can just say you were lucky, and you cannot really argue against that (at this time in history at least).
Umm...so, because everyone is born unequal but they deserve equality that means everyone really is equal in video games, even though Azen will beat everyone in this thread by multiple stocks? If Brawl weren't competitive and random elements were really that big a deal with how we run tournaments (no items) then why oh why has DSF won multiple tournaments in a row, Gimpyfish won multiple tournaments in a row, Azen, chillin, forte, and G-reg pretty much won in the exact same placings multiple tournaments in a row, and the list goes on. I'm sorry, but your argument can be applied to every single sport in history, I guess Lebron James isn't actually better than me, he was just born with better Genes.

Guitar Hero is a great game, but it isn't as competitive as Smash is. Games where you have to out think your opponent require more than games where all you have to do is practice with yourself repeatedly and memorize songs.

And I'm sorry, but you must not be very good at Halo if all you think you need to do is be the first to see someone. I just spent 40 hours last weekend watching Halo at MLG Meadowlands. Final Boss STOMPED on most of the competition, do you honestly believe its just because they see people first? Running strategies, anticipating the opponent, knowing how to stay alive when your down a shot (through straffing, or strongsiding away from the opponent) nade placement, weapon timers, spawn controls (forcing enemy to spawn where you want), etc.

Litterally, what your argument amounts to is: because everyone is born different but were all somehow equal than we must all be equal at video games!

The reality is: Azen will beat you in Smash. Lebron James will dunk over your head in Basketball. Tiger Woods will outdrive you. Final Boss will beat you in Halo 1, 2, or 3.

These people don't need to play every sole in the world to prove they are the best. Do I have to play Lebron 1v1 in basketball to know he is bettter than me? In video games, these great players submit themselves every week to any challenger that wants to come, and every week, they have proven over and over to be superior. Never has randomscrub309 showed up to a tournament and beaten Azen, because Azen is far and away superior to anyone who has never been to a tournament. Why? Because tournaments players exploit the game as far as they can, looking for advantages, strategies, counter strategies, whatever. They go to tournaments, and they encounter other people who do the same thing, and by going to a tournament and seeing this you gain experience and learn all these new strategies and styles of play, your knowledge expands, you adapt more, you evolve yourself. When your at a tournament, your against a pool or 50-100 people usually. Unless you submit yourself to experience all the variety of play, you will not know what to do when you encounter this, and this is often the problem when think your good but all you've done is play against the same pool of 3 or 4 people your whole life. Azen has far more experience than most people and also far more natural talent than most to supplement this. He is better than you, you can either take my word for it, or go to a tournament and lose to someone who has already lost to him or lose to him yourself.

Do you think its coincidence that the second place player from 2006 MLG circuit, KoreanDJ, also won the Nintendo sponsored Brawl tournament? Do you think its coincidence that pretty much every single player who made top 8 in the gamestop tournaments, or who even won just the first round, were Smashboards/tournament players?
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Just for fun, off the top of my list, games where there's absolutely no random elements involved (and which can be played competitively since there's scoring of some kind):
* Elite Beat Agents
* Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan!
* Moero! Nekketsu Rhythm Damashii! Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan!
* Dance Dance Revolution
* In the Groove
* Drummania
* Guitarfreaks
* Keyboardmania
* IIDX/Beatmania
* Pop n' Music
* Singstar
* Karaoke Revolution/Stage
* ParaParaParadise

And then I tired of naming games...

These are completely devoid of randomness because you don't even have an opponent there so you don't have to adapt to or anticipate their moves. So I guess the conclusion is, we should all start playing 1P-games? Down with fighting games!
 

Bluebottel

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
61
Location
Sweden
The only game I can think of that can truly be considered "competitive" is Guitar Hero. Why? Because there is absolutley no random elements in the game (note in game). When you play Guitar Hero it is always the same structure for everyone who plays it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The lolwall salutes you. Are you serious? Either you are seriously dumb or a professional troll.
You have obiously not been in contact wih gametheory. There are games with perfect information, that is games with absolutely no random/unknown elements. Lets name a few shall we?

Go
Chess
Arimaa
Checkers
4 in a row
Dots and Lines
Hive
Chinese Chess
Japanese Chess
Shogi

The list goes on.

When you look at it you cannot deny that people will luckily (especially in a 4-player match) just happen to charge up a smash and you will fall right into them, or you will get juggled and combo'd within the brawl.
My brain hurts. Really.
What version of Melee are you playing? In my version things dont just "happen", you make them happen. And if i "happen" to charge a smash right where my opponent lands, i made it happen. And i also "happen" to always push the X button when i should jump. What coincidence!

POINT: Stop being so instinctually hostile because you dont have a purpose to your life. Love your fellow man/woman/atom and just have fun with the game because heck, it is fun.
Show us your purpose, oh Great One. Our opinion of 'fun' is very different.
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
The lolwall salutes you. Are you serious? Either you are seriously dumb or a professional troll.
You have obiously not been in contact wih gametheory. There are games with perfect information, that is games with absolutely no random/unknown elements. Lets name a few shall we?

Go
Chess
Arimaa
Checkers
4 in a row
Dots and Lines
Hive
Chinese Chess
Japanese Chess
Shogi
Oh, but there is! What if the opponent doesn't do what you think he will? Random! That's why I only listed videogames that you can compete in in 1P-mode or a 2P-mode that was exactly like 1P-mode.

BTW, I'm playing go as I type this.
 
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