The True Arena - Kirby Match-Up/Stage Discussion (Discussing: Villager!)

[Asdioh]

Kirby Match-Up Discussion

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This is where we will discuss and analyze Kirby's match-ups against other fighters in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS. As the game is new, the competitive scene is constantly growing. Remember that everybody has a different opinion than your own -- some may agree, some may disagree.

Schedule
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The current schedule is similar to most other character boards - one character will be discussed every week. On the last day of the week, final thoughts will be made regarding the currently-being discussed character, while the match-up ratio is being calculated.

Due to the mass amounts of characters featured in this game, one character a week may become too slow. While I personally don't have any ideas for how to fix this, we could change it into two or three characters every week, although that could get a bit unorganized.
​

Discussion Rules & Guidelines
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As stated above, opinions will vary between players. While healthy debate regarding a character is fine, flaming or harassing other people regarding their opinions will not be tolerated. Don't do anything that'll get you an infraction.

While talking about a character, the format below is recommended to keep a lively, active thread and ensure that everybody can contribute.
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1. Pros
2. Cons
3. Copy Ability
4. Stage Picks
5. Additional Notes
6. Overall Score

Similarly to how the overall scores have been handled with in the past, the match-up score will be made into a ratio out of 100. The left side is devoted to how Kirby fares in the match-up, while the right side will involve the character in discussion. The following ratios will be used:
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• 100:0 - 95:5: Kirby can eat this character faster than Strawberry Cake.

• 90:10 - 85:15: Kirby has a massive advantage.

• 80:20 - 75:25: Kirby has a strong advantage.

• 70:30 - 65:35: Kirby has a moderate advantage.

• 60:40 - 55:45: Kirby has a slight advantage.

• 50:50: Kirby is evenly matched against his opponent.

• 40:60 - 45:55: Kirby has a slight disadvantage.

• 30:70 - 35:65: Kirby has a moderate disadvantage.

• 20:80 - 25:75: Kirby has a strong disadvantage.

• 10:90 - 15:85: Kirby has a massive disadvantage.
• 0:100 - 5:95: Kirby was given expired Strawberry Cake by King DeDeDe.

Match-Up Table

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | 40:60

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | 50:50 | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | 50:50 | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?

Weekly Results
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​

Week 1: Mega Man
[50:50]

Spoiler

50:50 - Asdioh
70:30 - WootSnorlax
40:60 - Reserved
40:60 - MikeKirby
50:50 - t!Mmy
50:50 - C.O.M.M

Week 2: Sheik
[50:50]

Spoiler

50:50 - Asdioh
50:50 - t!Mmy
45:55 - Agent Emerald
50:50 - Chef Kirby
55:45 - WootSnorlax
50:50 - MikeKirby

Week 3: Diddy Kong
[40:60]

Spoiler

40:60 - t!Mmy

Week 5: Rosalina/Ness
[50:50]
[50:50]

Spoiler

these numbers are made up but sound about right

​

Week Something: Mario/Yoshi

[40:60]
[35:65]

Pikachu Week:

[41.5:58.5]

Villager Week:

[??:??]

​

​

 

[Aunt Jemima]

@ Aunt Jemima !

Keeping this post for right now.

 

[Macchiato]

Stage Discussion

Final Destination|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

Battlefield|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

Smashville|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

Town & City|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

Lylat Cruise|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

Duck Hunt|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

Wuhu Island|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

Skyloft|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

Halberd|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

Kongo Jungle|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

Delfino Plaza|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

Castle Siege|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

Pokemon Stadium 2|
Characters We Should Take Here|
Characters To Not Take Here|
Strategy|
Techs|

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Kirby Triple Dededeluxe.

As I've mentioned before, I think it might be a good idea to start off with Dedede, the match up seems to be in his favor, especially in lag. I went to the Dedede boards for advice before, but they didn't really have any, only that they felt the match-up was favorable to him.

I'll edit this into the OP in a bit, but I feel like it needs to be said now. This is directed at everybody.

Please, PLEASE be careful about what you say when the only experiences you have are online. All contributions count, but remember that punishing characters, reacting to situations, dealing with projectiles, dodging attacks, etc. are all affected by online input lag. Before anybody starts, this does not mean you can't contribute with only online experiences. While posting about a match-up, remember to say whether your experiences are from online or offline.

 

[Asdioh]

I have a decent amount of experience vs Megaman (and I also play the character quite a bit myself) so I can talk about him to an extent. I'll try to just stick with the facts though, so you won't have to worry about online/offline/opinions

Pros: Megaman was originally seen as a fairly weak character, but unless I'm mistaken, lately he's been perceived as a real threat, a contender for at least mid tier or higher. One of his main character strengths, his bread and butter, is his keepaway game with projectiles. His projectile game is even good against reflectors, since his pellets (they're clearly eggs, not lemons) cancel out his own projectiles that were reflected. Luckily for Kirby, he can crouch under Eggs, Crash Bomb, Uncharged Fsmash (when not in crouch's idle animation), and item-thrown Metal Blade, whereas standard B Metal Blade can be easily shielded/grabbed/attacked. Other pros: uptilt/upair are very effective vs Megaman, as he has difficulty landing. No more Rush Cancel means these combos (and multihit moves such as Jab and Dair) are more effective. Megaman can escape later upairs with Rush, but he'll have to land and he has some difficulty doing so. In addition, Megaman is one of the easier characters for Kirby to gimp. His recovery is predictable and linear, perfect for Bair and occasionally even Stone.

Cons: I'd like more input from Megamains, but... Kirby can die at like 80% to uptilt, and fairly low to other moves. Dthrow->Fair works pretty well on Kirby. Upair can be hard to avoid and can be dangerous, due to Kirby's overall slow airspeed and light weight. Megaman's heavy weight means he'll be living for significantly longer than Kirby, outside of gimps.

Copy Ability: It's pretty good. It's mostly useless when both characters are on the ground facing each other, but angling the throw is useful, and item-throwing it is a strong edgeguard. Just have to be careful, because missing an Inhale means Megaman gets a free Fsmash.

Additional Notes: Apparently Kirby and Megaman can both do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3xHtDo6ohA

Overall Score: I'd rate it 50:50, possibly in Kirby's favor, since he has less difficulty than almost any character dealing with Megaman's keepaway game, due to his amazing crouch, small stature, and multiple jumps. I'd like more input though.

 

[WootSnorlax]

@ Asdioh with that many pros over cons I find it hard to believe that the matchup is 50:50.

Kirby may seem like a bad character, but in my opinion he has so many good matchups in this game. Megaman being one of the easier matchups.

Megaman is a character known to have a limited keep away game. With limited range on practically all his neutrals and slow moving non lethal projectiles it is easy for Kirby especially to maneuver around. Kirby's duck really makes Megaman have to play just incredibly different and from that we already have the advantage. You can duck under his nairs, jab, ftilt(which is also his jab kind of), crash bomber, and uncharged fsmash. Because of that Megaman has to rely on extremely laggy moves in order to attempt to hit Kirby. Megaman's dtilt, uptilt, dash attack, and all his smashes are easily punishable. Megaman also has no aerial approaches. His fair has little range and punishable on block. His dair and uair don't even count as an approach. His bair is decent if spaced correctly, but even still is punishable on block or miss. All of his aerials excluding his nair (which you can duck under) has at least 19 frames of landing lag. Grabs are really Megaman's friend in this matchup so spacing is still pretty important.

As I've mentioned before I believe that Kirby can do some solid damage once he can get in on his opponent. You should always be trying to get close to Megaman while avoiding his attacks by using a series of jumps, ducks, and shields. Megaman once approached has a hard time resetting the game back to neutral. You can really rack up some solid damage using your uptilts, dtilts, and jabs. Don't forget you also have a grab too if he is a bit shield happy. Uair strings for Kirby are easy to pull off because Megaman has no threat once you pop him in the air. I can't even consider his dair to be a threat. Megaman is also one of the easiest characters to edgeguard, and if you're Kirby you can just dair, fair, or bair him back off stage to send him to his death. He does have the option to air dodge so you'll have to read.

That being said the only down side I can see for Kirby is dying a bit early. But being the 3rd lightest character in the game it should be expected. As Asdioh said, utilt can kill around 80%. Uair can be frustrating to deal with but isn't a such a big threat if you know how to work around it.

I see this as a 70:30 or maybe even higher for Kirby. I could be wrong, but this is how I see it unless someone can give me really strong argument on Megaman's strength.

 

[Locke 06]

I have a decent amount of experience vs Megaman (and I also play the character quite a bit myself) so I can talk about him to an extent. I'll try to just stick with the facts though, so you won't have to worry about online/offline/opinions

Pros: Megaman was originally seen as a fairly weak character, but unless I'm mistaken, lately he's been perceived as a real threat, a contender for at least mid tier or higher. One of his main character strengths, his bread and butter, is his keepaway game with projectiles. His projectile game is even good against reflectors, since his pellets (they're clearly eggs, not lemons) cancel out his own projectiles that were reflected. Luckily for Kirby, he can crouch under Eggs, Crash Bomb, Uncharged Fsmash (when not in crouch's idle animation), and item-thrown Metal Blade, whereas standard B Metal Blade can be easily shielded/grabbed/attacked. Other pros: uptilt/upair are very effective vs Megaman, as he has difficulty landing. No more Rush Cancel means these combos (and multihit moves such as Jab and Dair) are more effective. Megaman can escape later upairs with Rush, but he'll have to land and he has some difficulty doing so. In addition, Megaman is one of the easier characters for Kirby to gimp. His recovery is predictable and linear, perfect for Bair and occasionally even Stone.

Cons: I'd like more input from Megamains, but... Kirby can die at like 80% to uptilt, and fairly low to other moves. Dthrow->Fair works pretty well on Kirby. Upair can be hard to avoid and can be dangerous, due to Kirby's overall slow airspeed and light weight. Megaman's heavy weight means he'll be living for significantly longer than Kirby, outside of gimps.
Overall Score: I'd rate it 50:50, possibly in Kirby's favor, since he has less difficulty than almost any character dealing with Megaman's keepaway game, due to his amazing crouch, small stature, and multiple jumps. I'd like more input though.

Fact checking here:
- Utilt kills Kirby at 74% with no rage and no DI.
- Landing can be assisted with leaf shield to have an active hitbox while air dodging.
- Mega Man's recovery is not linear or predictable as he can double jump after his up-B. If you commit to edge guarding him low, Mega Man should just go over you. You don't have the vertical speed to match his recovery.

Also, how does ducking really help you guys? You're still not really getting through the wall of projectiles by crouching.

Edit: Fixed utilt KO% to what the Mega Man boards have (74 from 73%). I think it's probably 73% with the freshness bonus which is why I have that number in my head. Either that or I am mixing it up with Jigglypuff's 63% utilt KO%.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Fact checking here:
- Utilt kills Kirby at 73% with no rage and no DI.
- Landing can be assisted with leaf shield to have an active hitbox while air dodging.
- Mega Man's recovery is not linear or predictable as he can double jump after his up-B. If you commit to edge guarding him low, Mega Man should just go over you. You don't have the vertical speed to match his recovery.

Also, how does ducking really help you guys? You're still not really getting through the wall of projectiles by crouching.

Thank you for this!

Anyways, Kirby can advance on Mega Man by doing "crouch walks" (I don't know if it has an official term). Just keep walking towards Mega Man, and continuously duck while walking so you can't hit us with projectiles. It also forces you to approach, as none of your ranged options will really work on us as long as we're ducking.

Anyways, I'll edit this post with my own opinions on this MU sometime later.

Going to say that this MU is 40:60, but I'll have to write up about him soon to explain.

 

[Locke 06]

Thank you for this!

Anyways, Kirby can advance on Mega Man by doing "crouch walks" (I don't know if it has an official term). Just keep walking towards Mega Man, and continuously duck while walking so you can't hit us with projectiles. It also forces you to approach, as none of your ranged options will really work on us as long as we're ducking.

Anyways, I'll edit this post with my own opinions on this MU in a bit.

Yup, no problem.
The issue that I find with your crouch walking is that Mega Man throws out projectiles faster than anyone else in the game. I think you'd have a better time using your multiple jumps or just shielding. It also doesn't really force us to approach as you don't really have ranged options of your own (barring final cutter and its customs). It might force a stalemate much like both of us can crouch under Fox's lasers indefinitely until he decides to stop lasering... but having metal blade still able to hit you keeps you honest. And if you pick up Metal Blade, you limit your own options while throwing the metal blade loses to a pellet.

The way you describe it, I'd compare it to Link's hylian shield (which blocks everything except metal blade). Sure, he can walk slowly and approach that way... but you're approaching at Ganondorf speeds. I haven't experienced the crouch-walk (and would love to at some point) but it doesn't seem that useful here as opposed to approaching through Link's projectiles.

 

[BBC7]

Fact checking here:
- Utilt kills Kirby at 74% with no rage and no DI.
- Landing can be assisted with leaf shield to have an active hitbox while air dodging.
- Mega Man's recovery is not linear or predictable as he can double jump after his up-B. If you commit to edge guarding him low, Mega Man should just go over you. You don't have the vertical speed to match his recovery.

Also, how does ducking really help you guys? You're still not really getting through the wall of projectiles by crouching.

Edit: Fixed utilt KO% to what the Mega Man boards have (74 from 73%). I think it's probably 73% with the freshness bonus which is why I have that number in my head. Either that or I am mixing it up with Jigglypuff's 63% utilt KO%.

I tested U-Tilt kill percent yesterday and killed Kirby at 69% every single time with U-Tilt. This is not factoring DI or Rage.

Anyways, ducking doesn't help much. It heavily limits your movement and attacks, not to mention Mega Man is still fully capable of hitting you with attacks such as D-Tilt, Leaf Shield, Leaf Shield into Grab, Z-Dropped Metal Blade, Downwards Metal Blade, U-Tilt etc.

EDIT: Kirby can't avoid Metal Blade by ducking, unless it's an Item Metal Blade that is thrown straight or upwards.

 

[Rochette]

I didn't fight really good Megaman. I just noticed that :

-Grabbing Metal Blade is useful.
-Easy to gimp after/with an Inhale star pit.
-Jab for destroying some projectiles

Up-throw + his own Crash bomb could be tricky.

 

[Salad Bowl]

Also he can crouch under so many of mega mans projectiles if u haven't got that covered

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Also he can crouch under so many of mega mans projectiles if u haven't got that covered

Er, every post except the one above your post has something to do with Kirby ducking under projectiles. In the future, please read the above posts before commenting.

 

[Salad Bowl]

Well I read them and I don't think I saw anyone mention this but his Nair can clash with megamans projectiles

 

[sandmanahoy]

Hey Kirbies, I'm getting back into competitive Smash for the first time in like 10 years, what's up?

Does Kirby get any special anti-death mileage out of using Down B through Megaman's Uair (upward whirlwind thing)?

 

[Unknownkid]

Hey Kirbies, I'm getting back into competitive Smash for the first time in like 10 years, what's up?

Does Kirby get any special anti-death mileage out of using Down B through Megaman's Uair (upward whirlwind thing)?

Although Air Shot slow down your descent, you still go through it. Make sure you transform into Stone before the Air Shot touches you or else you lose your form and send to your death.

Anyways, it was quite interesting to see this thread getting raided by Megaman players. Thank you for contributing to make this analysis more accurate. But you guys need to relax. We are not saying Kirby completely destroy Megaman. Kirby has an easier time against Megaman if Kirby knows how to get in. As mention before, Kirby can duck under most of the Blue Bomber's basic projectile minus Metal Blade (which can be catch). However, Kirby can neutralize Mega's projectile, even Metal Blade, just by jabbing. This mean Kirby can neutralize the shoots with timed attacks while approaching. These moves include N-Air (easiest), Dtilt(For Metal Blade), F-Air (hardest), and B-Air. Of course, the task is not easy. Megaman's Slide comes out fast and Dtilt doesn't beat it - You have to jump/shield/spotdodge. Mega Upper kills at low percentages (if sweetspot). Fire Sword covers a good frontal area but strong lag at the end. Bair Kills! Keep a sharp eye on this move. Also do not sleep on Leaf Shield. That move can steal your jumps and is an active hitbox when Megaman rolls or Airdodge.

I don't know where to place our matchup. I know my friend Alex who is a good Megaman player said he has to change his playstyle when fighting my Kirby. Watching MikeKirby vs NinjaLink's Megaman have various results. 50:50 sounds alright.

Reserved, I believe this is the last day for Megaman. Who is next on the list?

 

[GangsterPuff]

Ok, I know we are discussing megaman here and this is kinda off topic. But am I the only one who found the kirby jiggs MU to be really bad for kirby?

 

[Asdioh]

I haven't had a problem with it, but I haven't really played a good Jigglypuff. I wouldn't mind Jiggs being our next matchup discussion.

 

[GangsterPuff]

I haven't had a problem with it, but I haven't really played a good Jigglypuff. I wouldn't mind Jiggs being our next matchup discussion.

I brought it up because I just met this jiggs player online, and he had perfect spacing with his jiggs. I lost every single match against his jiggs. The problem is he is constantly staying in the air, and jiggs had so much better air momentum and aerials attack which put kirby to shame in comparison. Sure, you can just call me bad, but I was able to beat most of his secondaries with ease, so yeah. Also thanks, that'll help.

 

[Unknownkid]

I don't mind if we do Jigglypuff but Apex is about 4 weeks away. Shouldn't we concentrate on matchups that will most likely happen there?

 

[GangsterPuff]

I don't mind if we do Jigglypuff but Apex is about 4 weeks away. Shouldn't we concentrate on matchups that will most likely happen there?

There will be no point doing that since the diddy kirby MU is like 0:100

 

[Unknownkid]

Go to the Video Thread, bro. MikeKirby already shown that is not true. Also, there are other matchup to worry about. Captain Falcon, Mario, Luigi and Fox are being used more often.

 

[WootSnorlax]

If you want to talk about matchups that are really common we should do Sheik. That's one I feel like every smash4 player is going to have to know.

 

[Asdioh]

Sheik/Diddy/Yoshi are all good candidates, in that case. Diddy/Sheik are generally considered the best 2 in the game, with Yoshi being high up there somewhere. But of the three, I feel like Kirby struggles the most against Yoshi by far.

 

[Unknownkid]

I ignore Sheik and Diddy because they were obvious. I will also point out Rosalina as well but she is not brain dead/pocket character compared to Diddy and Sheik. It was good that we did Megaman first. I have seen player use him in many tournaments.

Yoshi... man Yoshi! I don't know what to do against Yoshi. You cannot stop his eggs. Dash Attack leds to Up Air. Nair comes out fast. I don't know. I am surprised I do not see him more in tournament. Only Yoshi I have seen is Raptor. But that is another topic. We will wait for what Reserved has next on the list.

 

[Salad Bowl]

I think we should do Diddy

I don't think the MU is actually that bad

Pros: Kirby can easily gimp Diddy since he doesn't have the best recovery. Since kirby spends most the time in the air, bananas and grabs won't be that easy for Diddy to get. Diddy is also easily combod and stringed. He can crouch under his monkey flip, popgun, etc.

Cons: diddy can kill him at an early percent. Diddy can also camp and run which is the type of playstyle kirby can't deal with. I don't have enough experience since I only played one competitive one.

Copy ability: It's not that good but it still gives him a projectile that helps.

Additional Note: Kirby's Nair can cancel out his bananas and peanuts

Score I think it's 45-55

 

[MikeKirby]

Megaman... I feel like it's slightly in Megaman's favor. Yeah, we can duck stuff but Kirby needs to do something rather than just sit there to create the openings he needs. MegaMan's D-tilt and the Metal Gear keep you very much aware. You have to shield or item grab those attacks respectively, which, any reaction you take will take you out of the safety of crouching. Because of this, Kirby is almost always forced to approach. This matchup gets very campy because Kirby slowly has to make his approach while MegaMan throws a wall of projectiles. Kirby doesn't have any throw combos on him while MegaMan does at low percents. MegaMan's recovery is gimp-able by Kirby. However, MegaMan still has his mix-ups and never forget that he can jump out of up-B if he hasn't used it yet. Also note that MegaMan CAN wall jump so if you're CP'ed to a stage with walls at the ledges keep that in mind when gimping (ex. Wiley's Castle Omega Form)

Offstage, Kirby wins. It's getting him there that's the problem. It's a bit difficult but not far from doable.

@ Asdioh
Alkdjfhdhdjsjsslaka!
Oh my gosh! That jab lock video!!! Hahahaha!

 

[Salad Bowl]

Okay so Megaman

Pros: kirby can crouch or clank the projectiles with Nair. Megaman also has a limited close range game which kirby outclasses him in. Offstage is horrible for mega man since he has a linear and predictable recovery easy for kirby to spike or bair at. Mega man is easily uair chained too since his dair has lots of starting lag.

Cons: mega man can rack up damage fast and has grab combos something kirby doesn't. Also he kills him considerably fast. He can also space himself and has good mixups.

Copy ability: the metal blade gives kirby a solid projectile something that kirby needs but not required just helps a little.

Also if you or he has a sticky bomb on them, an upthrow works. This could help u Come back from a percent lead or finish a match. It's a safer Kirbycide.

I personally think it's 60-40

 

[WootSnorlax]

Sheik/Diddy/Yoshi are all good candidates, in that case. Diddy/Sheik are generally considered the best 2 in the game, with Yoshi being high up there somewhere. But of the three, I feel like Kirby struggles the most against Yoshi by far.

I agree. Yoshi can be frustrating because of egg toss along with a few other things. In my opinion Kirby has a good matchup against sheik. I'll save my reasoning until we get into the matchup discussion.

 

[t!MmY]

While crouching is great, it will by no means give Kirby much in the way of *offensive* options. For instance, in the Mega Man match-up even if Kirby could crouch under Metal Blade that does little to dissuade Mega Man from using it at a safe distance. A better option is simply to catch it - not only does it prevent Mega Man from spawning another Metal Blade, it then gives Kirby a chance to do something more at long range.

I, too, feel like the Mega Man match-up isn't necessarily a bad one for Kirby... just that Mega Man has a solid ranged game that Kirby has to constantly deal with. Copying his Metal Blade helps out a lot, but there's always the problem with landing an Inhale on Mega Man first. In general this is a game of both sides playing very safe while trying to get their hits in... rage can play a big factor in who gets their KO first.

Also, I agree with Asdioh: while Diddy Kong and Sheik are good characters in general and can give Kirby a tough time, I feel like Yoshi is a notable challenge for our pink, puffy hero. He's got the speed and power as well as the egg spam and big hitboxes... he hits all the bases in Kirby's checklist of problems. (I forgot to mention that he's also heavy and his recovery is difficult to gimp).

 

[Nerdicon]

Quick question, can we crouch F-Smash?

Anyway as both a Kirby main and a Mega Man main I have a few things to mention in this match-up

• Mega Man doesn't have an easy time netting KOs, Up Smash is probably the most dangerous kill move in his arsenal against Kirby because of it's long lasting hitbox and upwards orientation
• You can crouch under pellets, if you know the opponent will go for pellets you can punish by crouching the pellets and attacking the retreat or shield grabbing the attack
• Snatching up Metal Blades helps a little, they're better if you throw them down and pick them up btw
• Most of Mega Man's moves have plenty of lag or are easy to shield grab so be patient.

Those are a few things I've noticed, this match-up is doable, it just takes some patience

 

[C.O.M.M]

My experiences are all online but I do have some general thoughts from playing my friend and FG Mega's.

Kirby and Mega can basically counter one another in tons of ways, Mega's projectile game forces Kirby to approach him or to try and bait a closer attack by ducking (which is pretty effective, especially against his buster), dodging or catching projectiles, I found myself usually beating Mega in the air but I have died due to a good bair on Mega's part. fair is somewhat dangerous and fair covers a wide range in-front of him but if timed correctly our fair can be quick enough to beat him to the punch. His uair is very nasty due to our floaty nature, but thankfully stone can negate this weakness if used properly.

Mega has amazing approach and retreat options with his slide and dash and his mega buster ain't no joke either, so you got that, yet Kirby is faster inside, his jumps and duck can handle uncharged fsmashes yet again, once the fast Kirby get's inside on Mega, he has some real good combo potential on him. Mega's utilt is nasty and can KO early if sweet-spotted and his usmash can catch us in the air and can send Kirby sky-high.

Mega is very gimp-able but he does have tricks to help him counter our trole tricks. He can use his jump after Rush, giving him a degree of unpredictability and could even jump over us fairly quickly. But again, that can be read as well. Stone edge guarding is actually pretty effective against Mega, especially catching him coming up from Rush.

I feel it's about 50-50, maybe a slight Kirby advantage, but hey. I'm biased clearly

 

[WootSnorlax]

Quick question, can we crouch F-Smash?

We can crouch under uncharged fsmashes yes. Maybe a little charged also since the size of the blast is based on how long they charge it.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Going to be finishing this week up and starting out next week in a bit. Before that, I have a question. How would you guys feel if we started doing three characters each week instead of one, so we can get through the roster faster?

If it is generally accepted that we should do three instead of one, we'll do Diddy, Sheik, and Yoshi for next week. If not, we'll be doing Sheik most likely (unless everybody wants to do another character).

 

[fromundaman]

Okay so I'm a bit late to the party, but I've actually played the Kirby/MM MU a bit from both sides both online and off. I see a lot of good points here and want to add a few things:

-we're not exactly helpless on the way back down to the stage and actually have more options than most between B-reversed leaf shield, falling with FF Dair onto rush to have no lag and renew jumps/UpB, FF Fair and Nair, downwards metal blades and Z-dropped metal blades.
That said, you are right to say you can pressure our landing; we may have options, but you are still able to abuse landing mechanics against us, especially since...

-Megaman can't recover low in this matchup, especially if you have our power. Stone murders our UpB unless we are very good at timing the invincibility frames on it. Z-drop a metal blade first though and we're screwed.
This means we pretty much always have to save our jump and use UpB first. This unfortunately doesn't work out so well if weget kknocked more horizontally than vertically.

-On the plus side (for Megaman), it is not hard for Megaman to mess with Kirby either. Fair beats all of your forward facing aerials, so we can use that, crash bomb and metal blades to try and waste jumps. The moment you are forced to use UpB you are dead as we WILL spike it.

-Crouching pellets is nice, but it doesn't a really accomplish anything. Jab/tilt>jump cancel>retreating nair locks you un crouch while we regain positional advantage. You're honestly better off staying in the air in our blind spot and forcing us to jump to try and catch you, then punishing that.

-Speaking of staying in the air, it can actually be really hard for Megaman to kill you if you abuse your jumps and stay in the air. His only aerial kill moves are Bair and Uair which can be fairly easy to evade in the neutral game.

-Your Uthrow makes using crash bomb very dangerous. It is really easy to get that double kill with crash bomb stuck to you.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Asdioh]

I think today's a good day to start discussing Sheik. We could also do Diddy Kong at the same time, or start him in 2-3 days. I don't see a need to be strict with "EXACTLY 1 or 3 characters for EXACTLY one week" etc, as long as we get some discussion from both boards :D

@sheik_boards

I'll post a really quick tl;dr thoughts and then see what you guys think.


Pros: Kirby can combo her pretty well, and has superior KO power with smashes and Bair.

Cons: She can combo Kirby a lot as well, and he can be easily overwhelmed by her speed. He has trouble approaching, and he also can't just sit in shield because of her safe shield pressure.

Copy Ability: Kirby uses needles better in pretty much every way. He can crouch under her needles while she can't crouch his, and 5 jumps makes it easier to use aerial needles. Oh, and for some reason he still has 1.0.3 needles, try it in 1/4 Hold L training mode, you'll see that Kirby's has less ending lag.

Additional Notes: Can't think of anything atm

Overall Score: I really want to say Kirby's advantage for once, but Sheik's top tier for a reason. It's probably even though.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Wow this thread is behind. Week one has lasted for 2-3 weeks. We should do multiple for week or one per few days so it goes a bit faster.

 

[t!MmY]

Kirby vs Sheik is about even when the two are just all out fighting, landing blows, and getting KOs. When Sheik plays 'campy' with needle spam, run away tactics, and safe pokes the match-up becomes much more difficult as Kirby starts taking damage while trying to deal damage to Shiek without leaving himself wide open.

I'm saying all this now because I've played a wide variety of Sheiks (I also like playing Sheik myself) and I've seen how the match-up looks with 'lower level' play and with 'higher level' play. Pretty much all my experience comes from offline since I have been traveling around to tournaments in different areas and played with a wide variety of opponents.

Important things to remember for the match-up:

Ducking Needle Storm is very useful against defensive Sheik players.
For one, it gives you an option to quickly avoid pot shots sent from far away. For another, it actually does work against the opponent's strategy because you can start inching up on the opponent which starts to break their defensive play. When that happens you can expect many defensive Sheik players to go aggressive and rush in with a Dash Attack or Grab mix-up. Smarter Sheik players will stick to the defensive strat and will harass with Aerial approaches, False Aerial approaches, pokes, and a crazy variety of other mix-ups that range from safe to risky.

Watch for Bouncing Fish: it will come eventually.
If Sheik has you off-stage this move can be difficult to avoid (thanks a lot, Air Speed), but it's possible to Air Dodge and make it back to the ledge most of the time due to Kirby's multiple jumps. If the Sheik player is brash and throws this at Kirby while both players are on-stage make sure to defend against it because if you do you can get a good punish off of it. It's nicknamed "Flopping Fish" for a reason. Intercepting this move with one of Kirby's attacks is almost infeasible; it's better off just making sure not to get hit and getting some sort of punish when possible.

Copy when you have the chance.
Having needles of his own will help this match-up tremendously for Kirby. Having a long-range option helps alleviate part of the rougher parts of this match-up. Also, being able to shoot needles after ducking an in-coming Needle Storm sends the message "You can't camp me, bro". Getting the Inhale on a defensive Sheik can be a tough job - don't try to force it, just take the opportunity if you see it.

Be patient. Play Safe.
You have to do this against aggressive Sheiks as well as defensive Sheiks. Against the aggressive Sheiks you have to play very smart so as not to get caught up in their fast play and mix-ups while using your own safe attacks (mostly U-tilt, D-tilt, and Jab). Against defensive Sheiks you have to play very defensive yourself so as to not show any openings that they can strike all while trying to pressure them into a position that you yourself can take advantage of. Taking risks is part of the game, but remember that every risk that you take should definitely be worth it because Sheik will be right there to punish.

Remember Rage.
Yes it's important to remember that Rage can affect when moves can KO, but there's more to this match-up than just KO percentages when it comes to Rage. When Sheik has low damage, she can combo like crazy (F-air, F-air, F-air...). Kirby doesn't get affected by Rage quite so much; his combos are more based on his opponent's damage than his own. More important on his side of things is knowing when an attack will KO Sheik, specifically B-throw, B-air, F-air, U-throw, and all three Smash Attacks. When Sheik starts seething (100% and up) she doesn't have quite the combo potential but remember that she can start looking for KOs (generally U-smash, Bouncing Fish, and Up Special). When Sheik's at 150% and up, she can start going for 'safe' KO options, such as F-air, U-air and maybe even Dash Attack and F-tilt if Kirby has enough damage on him.

Air Dodges.
Don't be too hasty to Air Dodge against Sheik. Sure there are plenty of times an Air Dodge can save you from her U-air or maybe her F-air, but just keep in mind that your opponent can - at any time - bait you into using an Air Dodge and punish accordingly. If you're at high percents and this happens, just roll with it cuz it can happen like that. What you really should watch out for is at mid-percents (Kirby at 70% or so) Sheik can be very tricky and bait the Air Dodge with a charged Up Smash. This can cut your stock short very early since a sweet-spotted Sheik Up Smash is very strong against light characters like Kirby. This kind of bait might not crop up too often, but it's definitely something to keep your eye on. While Kirby doesn't have quite the same kind of bait against Sheik, make sure to take advantage of this for yourself as well.

 

[Unknownkid]

I have been wondering about characters that use Uair to kill/damage. Wouldn't it be better to jump up and react accordingly rather than simply air dodge? Most characters shouldn't use their jump because they only have one. But Kirby get 4-5 jumps which can help avoid getting hit. I know sometimes forget I can jump. What do you guys think?

Oh. I have nothing for Sheik. I might have something against Diddy since pro who stream talk about how dealing with him. I haven't fought enough good sheiks to make an opinion but what I'm hearing is amazing. You guys really believe Kirby is around 50:50 with Sheik? Interesting...

 

[2Mixer]

So i played against quiKsilver, cyve and Eddy the past days and figured some things:

against Zss-

- I think its a very though mu for Kirby, since Zss is pretty strong in the air AND on the ground and have much more prio on her moves than our moves
- crouching (as always) is very good against her
- its hard to gimp her recovery
- upb oos kill us at about ~ 90%
- the copy ability is pretty good against her, but dont overuse it

against Sheik-

- have a 30-40% combo at 0-10% against shiek
- duck under needles
- fair is very strong and we barely cant do anything against it
- too much airdodges will lead you into death


against Diddy-

- i hate diddy
- DI the f*ck dthrow
- upair beats almost every move from our, so dont do a move against diddys upair
- gimp his recovery with a ff nair, its great

i am tired, maybe ill edit it later but this is my oponion
(btw they had problems against me, cyve even said that the sheik vs kirby mu is even)