The True Arena - Kirby MU Discussion "Weeks" 10/11: Ness, Meta Knight, Lucario and Lucas

[Professor Oats]

My vote's Pac, seems a lot of people agree. Also, making a video about this currently (I should have it done tonight or tomorrow), but the new forward throw combos into a few charged neutral B's at decently late percents.

Samus and DK matchups are extremely fun now.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Anyone ever even faced a Pacman before?
Knowing what they do, how they setup, and how to avoid his traps.
I bet one of the Pacman mains will act like they completely counter us or something,

 

[RedNova]

Anyone ever even faced a Pacman before?
Knowing what they do, how they setup, and how to avoid his traps.
I bet one of the Pacman mains will act like they completely counter us or something,

I fought against the best Pacman in my town and double eliminated him. The matchup is difficult, but not what I would call a counter. You need to know the exact position of your body to avoid all he throws at you.I even counterpicked Villager (I don't play with him, ever) and won

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I fought against the best Pacman in my town and double eliminated him. The matchup is difficult, but not what I would call a counter. You need to know the exact position of your body to avoid all he throws at you.I even counterpicked Villager (I don't play with him, ever) and won

So would you say it was his possible lack of MU knowledge.

 

[Wintermelon43]

tbh I've never faced a Pac-Man either, they're that rare in america.

 

[SapphSabre777]

It seems like, thanks to the votes for the Strawpoll, the character to be discussed alongside Duck Hunt will be Pac-Man ! I'll go ask the people at the Pac-Man Boards and such and see what all we can make of each MU.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Lol, I've never even played a Pac-Man tbh (Although I'vwe heard that it's in our favor)

 

[Megamon]

I have some trouble against Kirby due to his insane priority when it comes to pretty much everything. Ftilt can disrupt your air approach, though, and Nair/Fair can get us out of combos, along with the hydrant. The copy ability may be what turns this in you guys's favor, but a true pacmain should be able to outclass any Kirby when it comes to fruit knowledge. Approaching Pac from behind is a no-no due to his utilt which is fairly strong and can clank with almost anything. Coming in from the air is strangely not your best bet against Pac due to trampoline, which can interrupt you if done sporadically and not spammed. If you're not in his face, you're probably going to lose. Zdropping can be done by both characters due to Kirby's copy, but we're probably more versed in that area, so that's another thing to watch out for. If Pac's in the air with a fruit in hand, do not go under him. You're just begging to get combo'd. Cherry, to fair and catch cherry, to z drop, to hydrant. Pac can throw out a lot of moves, so sitting in shield and plodding your time may be wise if the pac's beating you. Try to see what he's doing, then go in. Some characters you can straight rush down and torment, but you gotta be patient with this match up. Pac has trouble killing sometimes, but Kirby's fairly light. Makes for an even match.

 

[Megamon]

Oh, and most kills I've gotten off Kirby have been due to a sweet spot bair. Pac's bair is deadly, long, and quick. Some Pacs can combine the water with the hydrant and come at you with a very fast bair. It's kinda hard to pull off, and you will rarely see a pacman go for it, but it's something to be aware of.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

VS

Pros:

• Really easy edge-guards.
• Good combos on duck hunt.
• If Kirby can get in, it gives DH a hard time.
• We can duck under down-b and side-b (in frisbee mode, not attack)

Cons:

• DH outranges us.
• DH can space us out really well and take advantage of our little approach options.
• Kirby's u-tilt is useless unless you actually get in.
• DH's projectiles can poke us really well and are difficult to avoid.
• DH kills us early with smashes that have long range.
• DH can juggle us easily.
• DH can play the keep away game expertly.

Copy Ability:

• Good and needed. The can makes this MU a bit easier.

Customs:

• Regular inhale is our best bet because with jumping inhale we are just gonna hit his projectiles if he is spacing properly. Grounding Stone, Hammer Bash, and Upper Cutter.

Stage Picks:

• Stages where you can edge-guard easily, like battlefield.

Additional Notes:

• The one really good advantage we have in this MU is our edge-guarding capability. Our d-air demolishes DH's recovery, and can net us early gimps at insanely low percents.
• The best thing for DH to do in this MU is camp and space. This leaves Kirby at a bad position since he can't approach DH, and Kirby's approach options are lacking.
• If you can get in on a DH, then you are good. DH will have a hard time escaping Kirby's combos, and we can get our percent that way.
• Really try to get his ability. Makes it so we can have a projectile to trade with his projectile.

Score:
40:60 :

This MU is pretty tough for Kirby. DH dominates us on stage but we dominate offstage. If we can get in on a DH we have easy percent but even that isn't enough to regain what percent we will lose from DH's projectiles and fine spacing. We have an amazing offstage game against him though, and thats the redeeming quality that doesn't make this a really tough MU for Kirby. Its just a hard one.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

I have some trouble against Kirby due to his insane priority when it comes to pretty much everything. Ftilt can disrupt your air approach, though, and Nair/Fair can get us out of combos, along with the hydrant. The copy ability may be what turns this in you guys's favor, but a true pacmain should be able to outclass any Kirby when it comes to fruit knowledge. Approaching Pac from behind is a no-no due to his utilt which is fairly strong and can clank with almost anything. Coming in from the air is strangely not your best bet against Pac due to trampoline, which can interrupt you if done sporadically and not spammed. If you're not in his face, you're probably going to lose. Zdropping can be done by both characters due to Kirby's copy, but we're probably more versed in that area, so that's another thing to watch out for. If Pac's in the air with a fruit in hand, do not go under him. You're just begging to get combo'd. Cherry, to fair and catch cherry, to z drop, to hydrant. Pac can throw out a lot of moves, so sitting in shield and plodding your time may be wise if the pac's beating you. Try to see what he's doing, then go in. Some characters you can straight rush down and torment, but you gotta be patient with this match up. Pac has trouble killing sometimes, but Kirby's fairly light. Makes for an even match.

The copy ability is really nice, it gives you a doble fruit. Pick up kirby's fruit and zdrop it while you charge your own fruit. Charge a key because sometimes he will taunt to remove the ability and you will put the key on his face.
Bair is your friend against kirby. Outpriorize almost every kirby's attacks.
If kirby eats a fruit, run ,grab and goes for the combo or Usmash. He will heal 1% and you will do like 10%-15%
Fair to Key works at 100%, kirby dies really early with a well placed key.

 

[Megamon]

The copy ability is really nice, it gives you a doble fruit. Pick up kirby's fruit and zdrop it while you charge your own fruit. Charge a key because sometimes he will taunt to remove the ability and you will put the key on his face.
Bair is your friend against kirby. Outpriorize almost every kirby's attacks.
If kirby eats a fruit, run ,grab and goes for the combo or Usmash. He will heal 1% and you will do like 10%-15%
Fair to Key works at 100%, kirby dies really early with a well placed key.

I do that to DDD and Wario as well. Funny seeing them think they can just eat my fruits and get away with it. I haven't done this, but after they eat the fruit, can a cherry be spawned to start a combo immediately? This info could also be of help to Kirby mains (avoidance wise), so I'm not just asking for myself .

 

[PEPESPAIN]

I do that to DDD and Wario as well. Funny seeing them think they can just eat my fruits and get away with it. I haven't done this, but after they eat the fruit, can a cherry be spawned to start a combo immediately? This info could also be of help to Kirby mains (avoidance wise), so I'm not just asking for myself .

I didn't try because I think that toss a cherry again will be a waste of time. You can deal more % with something else.

Cherry deals 4%. Which combo can you do that helps in this situation? Bread & butter? Cherry + fair to nair? ~+- 19%

I usually go for the down throw (10%) and if the miss the DI/tech you can perform a hard punish (36%+-) or maybe a breat and butter combo. ~25% (10+5+10)

DA to Fair to nair/ Down B will be a good option too.

It depends on %. If he does this at high % you will perform a usmash.

I don't recommend a cherry. Grab(Combo starter) or Usmash(1 attack -> Kill option) or DA (Good combo starter) will be the best options.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

Guys, Can we talk about the MU please? Take this back to the Pacman boards if you want to talk.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Kirby Vs. Pac-Man​

Pros:
*Copy Ability
*Grab is laggy, and his throws aren't that good. If he misses the grab
*Getting air combos can be easy, since his air attacks have a good amount of startup or ending lag.
*If you're close enough to his side-b, but not enough to get hit by it, you can hammer or smash him.
*Meteor Stone and Jumping Inhale makes it hard for him to recover.
*Kirby's not used in Japan, so Abadango would think that you're trying to play instead of the real person that he's playing. So he tells the TO you're cheating, the TO think's HE'S cheating, and win the set automatictially


Cons:
*Pac-Man's Fire Hydrant and Key makes it easy for him to KO us.
*Grabbing is difficult, due to his specials and forward smash (Espicially fruit)
*Smashes have pretty good range, which can potentntially make approaching hard.
*The Abadango thing above won't actually happen


Copy Ability:
The Copy Ability would be very useful, as if the Pac-Man dies, you can charge up a key easily. You could also have the advantages of Pac-Man'a fruit, such as killing easily with Bell and key, damaging with Key and Galaga, and camping.


Custom Moves:

Neutral Special:
Jumping Inhale. Obvisualy. It can be used as a recovery, can be used to screw up Pac-Man's recovery, and can pass

Side Special:
Due to the side-b thing in the pros section, and since it can take some time for hom to get back to the ground, you might be able to charge your hammer at times. I still think side-b 2 is better, but default could be useful.

Up Special:
I have No idea. This is the hardest one of all. WHAT is the BEST? Oh wait. 3.

Down Special:
I think Meteor stone is best, since you can gimp/edgeguard Pac-Man during recovery with it.

Stage Picks:

Pac-Man likes flat stages and stages that you can camp on. So, beause of this, try to go on stages that have platforms (Like Battlefield and Dream Land). Try not to get into Fnal Destination, or Lylat Cruise.

Additional notes:
Be careful of the bell, if you get hit by that in higher percents, you're died

Matchup Ratio:55:45 (Close to 60:40, but I think 55:45 makes more sense.)

 

[JS2D]

Kirby Vs. Pac-Man​

Pros:
*Copy Ability
*Grab is laggy, and his throws aren't that good. If he misses the grab
*Getting air combos can be easy, since his air attacks have a good amount of startup or ending lag.
*If you're close enough to his side-b, but not enough to get hit by it, you can hammer or smash him.
*Meteor Stone and Jumping Inhale makes it hard for him to recover.
*Kirby's not used in Japan, so Abadango would think that you're trying to play instead of the real person that he's playing. So he tells the TO you're cheating, the TO think's HE'S cheating, and win the set automatictially


Cons:
*Pac-Man's Fire Hydrant and Key makes it easy for him to KO us.
*Grabbing is difficult, due to his specials and forward smash (Espicially fruit)
*Smashes have pretty good range, which can potentntially make approaching hard.
*The Abadango thing above won't actually happen


Copy Ability:
The Copy Ability would be very useful, as if the Pac-Man dies, you can charge up a key easily. You could also have the advantages of Pac-Man'a fruit, such as killing easily with Bell and key, damaging with Key and Galaga, and camping.


Custom Moves:

Neutral Special:
Jumping Inhale. Obvisualy. It can be used as a recovery, can be used to screw up Pac-Man's recovery, and can pass

Side Special:
Due to the side-b thing in the pros section, and since it can take some time for hom to get back to the ground, you might be able to charge your hammer at times. I still think side-b 2 is better, but default could be useful.

Up Special:
I have No idea. This is the hardest one of all. WHAT is the BEST? Oh wait. 3.

Down Special:
I think Meteor stone is best, since you can gimp/edgeguard Pac-Man during recovery with it.

Stage Picks:

Pac-Man likes flat stages and stages that you can camp on. So, beause of this, try to go on stages that have platforms (Like Battlefield and Dream Land). Try not to get into Fnal Destination, or Lylat Cruise.

Additional notes:
Be careful of the bell, if you get hit by that in higher percents, you're died

Matchup Ratio:55:45 (Close to 60:40, but I think 55:45 makes more sense.)

Good analysis, but there are a few mistakes here and there that I'd like to point out.
Pac-Man's slowest aerials are B-air and Up-air, at frame 9. His N-air is frame 3. As far as startup is concerned, they're quite fast - generally faster than ours anyway. His Nair can also be used as a combo breaker.

A good Pac-Man won't just let you hit them out of their side-b in neutral. From what I know, they'll use it to recover, or when they're hiding behind the hydrant as a way to break it while being protected by armor. Yes, if they start the move next to you they will get punished, but that won't usually happen.

As far as approaching is concerned, I'd worry less about his smash attacks and more about his Hydrant/Fruit combos. If you over commit, you will get punished and take a ton of damage. If you can do it safely, get rid of the hydrant as quickly as possible (I think 12% is enough). A Pac-Man player will also place their trampoline on the ground to make approaching on the ground very awkward. Pac-Man mains are also adept at keeping you in shield and then going for grabs, thanks to all of their tools. Fortunately, I don't think they have too many follow ups late game.

Here are a few notes I'd like to add:

Getting the copy ability helps a lot in this matchup. It used to combo from Fthrow from between 40% - 70%, but after the patch, it combos from 0% - 80% or somewhere around that range, even with proper DI. It can also kill. Try to get it.

One last thing; landing on the trampoline in stone form will immediately revert you back to normal, much like the water in Delfino plaza. If you want to go for cheesy gimps, aim for the trampoline. You'll either hit Pacman, or steal one jump from them, potentially causing them to SD. Just don't do this too late, or you might fall to your death...

All in all, good analysis on your part. I would say the matchup is even more than anything, but I haven't played it enough. I do feel quite comfortable playing it though.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Kirby Vs. Pac-Man​

Pros:
*Copy Ability
*Grab is laggy, and his throws aren't that good. If he misses the grab
*Getting air combos can be easy, since his air attacks have a good amount of startup or ending lag.
*If you're close enough to his side-b, but not enough to get hit by it, you can hammer or smash him.
*Meteor Stone and Jumping Inhale makes it hard for him to recover.
*Kirby's not used in Japan, so Abadango would think that you're trying to play instead of the real person that he's playing. So he tells the TO you're cheating, the TO think's HE'S cheating, and win the set automatictially


Cons:
*Pac-Man's Fire Hydrant and Key makes it easy for him to KO us.
*Grabbing is difficult, due to his specials and forward smash (Espicially fruit)
*Smashes have pretty good range, which can potentntially make approaching hard.
*The Abadango thing above won't actually happen


Copy Ability:
The Copy Ability would be very useful, as if the Pac-Man dies, you can charge up a key easily. You could also have the advantages of Pac-Man'a fruit, such as killing easily with Bell and key, damaging with Key and Galaga, and camping.


Custom Moves:

Neutral Special:
Jumping Inhale. Obvisualy. It can be used as a recovery, can be used to screw up Pac-Man's recovery, and can pass

Side Special:
Due to the side-b thing in the pros section, and since it can take some time for hom to get back to the ground, you might be able to charge your hammer at times. I still think side-b 2 is better, but default could be useful.

Up Special:
I have No idea. This is the hardest one of all. WHAT is the BEST? Oh wait. 3.

Down Special:
I think Meteor stone is best, since you can gimp/edgeguard Pac-Man during recovery with it.

Stage Picks:

Pac-Man likes flat stages and stages that you can camp on. So, beause of this, try to go on stages that have platforms (Like Battlefield and Dream Land). Try not to get into Fnal Destination, or Lylat Cruise.

Additional notes:
Be careful of the bell, if you get hit by that in higher percents, you're died

Matchup Ratio:55:45 (Close to 60:40, but I think 55:45 makes more sense.)

See? That wasn't bad at all, just do these more and you'll notice its not so hard BTW you mean in Kirby's favor right?

 

[Wintermelon43]

Good analysis, but there are a few mistakes here and there that I'd like to point out.
Pac-Man's slowest aerials are B-air and Up-air, at frame 9. His N-air is frame 3. As far as startup is concerned, they're quite fast - generally faster than ours anyway. His Nair can also be used as a combo breaker.

A good Pac-Man won't just let you hit them out of their side-b in neutral. From what I know, they'll use it to recover, or when they're hiding behind the hydrant as a way to break it while being protected by armor. Yes, if they start the move next to you they will get punished, but that won't usually happen.

As far as approaching is concerned, I'd worry less about his smash attacks and more about his Hydrant/Fruit combos. If you over commit, you will get punished and take a ton of damage. If you can do it safely, get rid of the hydrant as quickly as possible (I think 12% is enough). A Pac-Man player will also place their trampoline on the ground to make approaching on the ground very awkward. Pac-Man mains are also adept at keeping you in shield and then going for grabs, thanks to all of their tools. Fortunately, I don't think they have too many follow ups late game.

Here are a few notes I'd like to add:

Getting the copy ability helps a lot in this matchup. It used to combo from Fthrow from between 40% - 70%, but after the patch, it combos from 0% - 80% or somewhere around that range, even with proper DI. It can also kill. Try to get it.

One last thing; landing on the trampoline in stone form will immediately revert you back to normal, much like the water in Delfino plaza. If you want to go for cheesy gimps, aim for the trampoline. You'll either hit Pacman, or steal one jump from them, potentially causing them to SD. Just don't do this too late, or you might fall to your death...

All in all, good analysis on your part. I would say the matchup is even more than anything, but I haven't played it enough. I do feel quite comfortable playing it though.

That's why I said Sartup OR ending lag, some of his airs have good startup. As for approaching, I wanted to mention all possible threats,I know fruit and Hydrant are the worst.

 

[Wintermelon43]

See? That wasn't bad at all, just do these more and you'll notice its not so hard BTW you mean in Kirby's favor right?

Kirby's favor

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

I'm bored and waiting for someone, so I'm gonna go ahead and do the Pac MU too.

vs

Pros:

• Easy to start combos
• Doesn't have much to stop pressure from above (so easy d-airs and falling u-airs)
• Bad grab, easily punishable
• We beat him in aerial speed
• Inhale for a projectile

Cons:

• N-air beats out our combos.
• F-air is a fast move with good range that can block our aerial approaches
• Smashes are disjointed and good, killing us early
• Recovery can be abused but it is hard to gimp considering he has side-b and up-b. Also, jumping on the trampoline for the 3rd jump to get Pac to freefall his hard considering Kirby's fastfall speed is still slow

Copy Ability:
Take it, you get a good projectile.

Customs:
Reg inhale, upper cutter, meteor stone, hammer bash. Reg inhale is better for punishes and we have a higher chance of getting the ability due to it's speed. The rest is self explanatory really.

Stage Picks:
I would say BF. Helps with our combos and he gets less off of hydrant.

Additional Notes:
I feel like this is one of the MUs that it is beneficial to approach in. Pac having those projectiles is scary, and being up close is a good way to counteract that. You can also get a lot off his hydrant too. This might not be true, but I feel like Pac benefits off of scaring people about approaching. If we just approach, it might be better for us.

Score:
40:60

We can't combo or edge-guard him, he has a really good juggle game against us, and we are about even onstage. Thats 40:60, he removes 2 of our strengths.

 

[Megamon]

I'm bored and waiting for someone, so I'm gonna go ahead and do the Pac MU too.

vs

Pros:

• Easy to start combos
• Doesn't have much to stop pressure from above (so easy d-airs and falling u-airs)
• Bad grab, easily punishable
• We beat him in aerial speed
• Inhale for a projectile

Cons:

• N-air beats out our combos.
• F-air is a fast move with good range that can block our aerial approaches
• Smashes are disjointed and good, killing us early
• Recovery can be abused but it is hard to gimp considering he has side-b and up-b. Also, jumping on the trampoline for the 3rd jump to get Pac to freefall his hard considering Kirby's fastfall speed is still slow

Copy Ability:
Take it, you get a good projectile.

Customs:
Reg inhale, upper cutter, meteor stone, hammer bash. Reg inhale is better for punishes and we have a higher chance of getting the ability due to it's speed. The rest is self explanatory really.

Stage Picks:
I would say BF. Helps with our combos and he gets less off of hydrant.

Additional Notes:
I feel like this is one of the MUs that it is beneficial to approach in. Pac having those projectiles is scary, and being up close is a good way to counteract that. You can also get a lot off his hydrant too. This might not be true, but I feel like Pac benefits off of scaring people about approaching. If we just approach, it might be better for us.

Score:
40:60

We can't combo or edge-guard him, he has a really good juggle game against us, and we are about even onstage. Thats 40:60, he removes 2 of our strengths.

Nice analysis, but I actually prefer it when Kirby tries to attack from above.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

Would you mind elaborating on this? We won't know why it's a bad idea if you don't tell us.

 

[Megamon]

Would you mind elaborating on this? We won't know why it's a bad idea if you don't tell us.

If I see them float above me, I'll either trampoline, or utilt. Pacman's fairly fast as well, so he can easily run away bair. Usmash, though slow, is a nice anti-air.

 

[SapphSabre777]

This Tuesday will be the ending of the week for DHD and Pac-Man, I should probably note right now. I may be a bit late, what with issues in the family arising when doing any transferring of information, just so you guys know. If there isn't any responses made by Monday afternoon, however, I will likely close the week's discussion, just to keep things moving.

Just letting you guys know. ^^

 

[Wintermelon43]

How are we gonna pick the next matchup?

 

[SapphSabre777]

How are we gonna pick the next matchup?

Same way as last time: let you guys choose characters that you want to discuss, then vote upon which one to do.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Jigglypuff
Ryu
Lucas
The DLC characters(besides mewtwo) are quite goodgood and should be discussed.
Jiggs is just because they are pink,round, cute, and....yea I just wanna do one for random.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Kirbys out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Kirby. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Kirby match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/413571/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[SapphSabre777]

Well, no response means this week is over. Quaintly enough, we seem to have a re-discussion with Rosalina & Luma that we can do alongside this new set of characters this week! Here is the poll, and I'll have results put in tonight. Cheers!

 

[Wintermelon43]

Well, no response means this week is over. Quaintly enough, we seem to have a re-discussion with Rosalina & Luma that we can do alongside this new set of characters this week! Here is the poll, and I'll have results put in tonight. Cheers!

I think we should still allow votes for Duck Hunt and Pac-Man for the next matchups. Since Duck Hunt only had one vote from Mazdamaxsti, and Pac-Man only had two votes from me and Maxdamasti again. Which could have very easily screwed up the results. And didn't a Pac-man main vote 50:50?

 

[SapphSabre777]

I think we should still allow votes for Duck Hunt and Pac-Man for the next matchups. Since Duck Hunt only had one vote from Mazdamaxsti, and Pac-Man only had two votes from me and Maxdamasti again. Which could have very easily screwed up the results. And didn't a Pac-man main vote 50:50?

Fair enough, I can see your point. Perhaps every week introduces two characters, and votes end after two weeks. We can have 4 characters to discuss on here (two from last week, two from this week), which hypotetically have a lot of discussion. Oh, and you are right, I just missed Megamon's "even" statement, 48.33:51.66 ratio now, so I'll likely round it to 50:50 because of it.

That's...not a bad idea, actually. What do you all think? "Weeks" have 2 week long voting sessions and a new "week" per week, to keep the characters flowing?

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Fair enough, I can see your point. Perhaps every week introduces two characters, and votes end after two weeks. We can have 4 characters to discuss on here (two from last week, two from this week), which hypotetically have a lot of discussion. Oh, and you are right, I just missed Megamon's "even" statement, 48.33:51.66 ratio now, so I'll likely round it to 50:50 because of it.

That's...not a bad idea, actually. What do you all think? "Weeks" have 2 week long voting sessions and a new "week" per week, to keep the characters flowing?

I like it.

 

[RedNova]

Fair enough, I can see your point. Perhaps every week introduces two characters, and votes end after two weeks. We can have 4 characters to discuss on here (two from last week, two from this week), which hypotetically have a lot of discussion. Oh, and you are right, I just missed Megamon's "even" statement, 48.33:51.66 ratio now, so I'll likely round it to 50:50 because of it.

That's...not a bad idea, actually. What do you all think? "Weeks" have 2 week long voting sessions and a new "week" per week, to keep the characters flowing?

Yeah, it sounds great. I went to the Rosa boards and they actually have 4 chars per week.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Are we redicussig Rosalina here too?

 

[SapphSabre777]

Are we redicussig Rosalina here too?

The re-discussion is at the Rosa Boards. When we do re-discussions ourselves, we can use those posts for our evaluation. Go to @ Mario & Sonic Guy 's post for the link to the discussion. What we post there can help us.

I should also note that discussion towards Pac-Man and Duck Hunt are still open. The two characters alongside them will be chosen this Wednesday, thanks to moving my brother into college. I'll miss my little bro...for 3 days till I see him at the residential colleges. XD

 

[Wintermelon43]

The re-discussion is at the Rosa Boards. When we do re-discussions ourselves, we can use those posts for our evaluation. Go to @ Mario & Sonic Guy 's post for the link to the discussion. What we post there can help us.

I should also note that discussion towards Pac-Man and Duck Hunt are still open. The two characters alongside them will be chosen this Wednesday, thanks to moving my brother into college. I'll miss my little bro...for 3 days till I see him at the residential colleges. XD

No, I mean, are you accepting new votes for the matchup

 

[Nu~]

Kirby Vs. Pac-Man​

Pros:
*Copy Ability
*Grab is laggy, and his throws aren't that good. If he misses the grab
*Getting air combos can be easy, since his air attacks have a good amount of startup or ending lag.
*If you're close enough to his side-b, but not enough to get hit by it, you can hammer or smash him.
*Meteor Stone and Jumping Inhale makes it hard for him to recover.
*Kirby's not used in Japan, so Abadango would think that you're trying to play instead of the real person that he's playing. So he tells the TO you're cheating, the TO think's HE'S cheating, and win the set automatictially


Cons:
*Pac-Man's Fire Hydrant and Key makes it easy for him to KO us.
*Grabbing is difficult, due to his specials and forward smash (Espicially fruit)
*Smashes have pretty good range, which can potentntially make approaching hard.
*The Abadango thing above won't actually happen


Copy Ability:
The Copy Ability would be very useful, as if the Pac-Man dies, you can charge up a key easily. You could also have the advantages of Pac-Man'a fruit, such as killing easily with Bell and key, damaging with Key and Galaga, and camping.


Custom Moves:

Neutral Special:
Jumping Inhale. Obvisualy. It can be used as a recovery, can be used to screw up Pac-Man's recovery, and can pass

Side Special:
Due to the side-b thing in the pros section, and since it can take some time for hom to get back to the ground, you might be able to charge your hammer at times. I still think side-b 2 is better, but default could be useful.

Up Special:
I have No idea. This is the hardest one of all. WHAT is the BEST? Oh wait. 3.

Down Special:
I think Meteor stone is best, since you can gimp/edgeguard Pac-Man during recovery with it.

Stage Picks:

Pac-Man likes flat stages and stages that you can camp on. So, beause of this, try to go on stages that have platforms (Like Battlefield and Dream Land). Try not to get into Fnal Destination, or Lylat Cruise.

Additional notes:
Be careful of the bell, if you get hit by that in higher percents, you're died

Matchup Ratio:55:45 (Close to 60:40, but I think 55:45 makes more sense.)

Seeing that Kirby has a rather poor approach and slow ground/airspeed, I can't see him doing well against a strong zoner like Pac-Man. You will try your best to get in, but fruits and hydrants will be very tough for you to get around. Add on fire hydrant on top of that and the matchup gets very hard for you. Not to mention that we outta he you in CQC as well, and freaky fruit strawberries and cherries can set up kills at around 80%.

Trampolines force you to approach from the air. What will Kirby do in this scenario? Probably Dair or fastfall back to the ground. Both of which can be punished by pac man easily with our invincible disjointed utilt. We outrange you on the ground and in the air, and our frame data is very similar to yours in terms of startup and end lag. You have us beat in landing lag.

Recovering against a Kirby isn't very hard. Beat out the obvious attacks with fruit, meteor stoning us with a trampoline out only bounces us back up, and we can throw a cherry during your jumping inhale to trap you in heavy end lag that we can punish. Don't underestimate our throws either because down throw sets up 50:50s that can lead to either heavy damage or death. If you get in, you can deal heavy damage with your combos (true combos that is. Not the ones that we can expose with our frame 3 nair)

But that's only if you get in.

65:45 Pac-Man's favor
I remember a while back that @Reserved said that Pac-Man is one of the characters that can counter custom Kirby.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Seeing that Kirby has a rather poor approach and slow ground/airspeed, I can't see him doing well against a strong zoner like Pac-Man. You will try your best to get in, but fruits and hydrants will be very tough for you to get around. Add on fire hydrant on top of that and the matchup gets very hard for you. Not to mention that we outta he you in CQC as well, and freaky fruit strawberries and cherries can set up kills at around 80%.

Trampolines force you to approach from the air. What will Kirby do in this scenario? Probably Dair or fastfall back to the ground. Both of which can be punished by pac man easily with our invincible disjointed utilt. We outrange you on the ground and in the air, and our frame data is very similar to yours in terms of startup and end lag. You have us beat in landing lag.

Recovering against a Kirby isn't very hard. Beat out the obvious attacks with fruit, meteor stoning us with a trampoline out only bounces us back up, and we can throw a cherry during your jumping inhale to trap you in heavy end lag that we can punish. Don't underestimate our throws either because down throw sets up 50:50s that can lead to either heavy damage or death. If you get in, you can deal heavy damage with your combos (true combos that is. Not the ones that we can expose with our frame 3 nair)

But that's only if you get in.

65:45 Pac-Man's favor
I remember a while back that @Reserved said that Pac-Man is one of the characters that can counter custom Kirby.

My god 65:35?????

 

[Nu~]

At first I thought 60:40, but then I realized that my analysis didn't correlate with that ratio so I raised it.
60:40 is probably closer though, yet I haven't fought many kirbys that have given me trouble.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

At first I thought 60:40, but then I realized that my analysis didn't correlate with that ratio so I raised it.
60:40 is probably closer though, yet I haven't fought many kirbys that have given me trouble.

What about custom Kirby? Jumping inhale is a really good approach considering the big leap, and it goes like half of the stage, I wish I had more knowledge on PAC, because I'd imagine similar to most Zoners, once we get in, we do a lot of damage, but thats if we can get in.

If we did get your ability, its not one of the simple specials cause. We need to know when to use each fruit.
Out of curiosity, do you use All fruits or just certain ones because I wonder if they all have use.