The True Arena - Kirby MU Discussion "Weeks" 10/11: Ness, Meta Knight, Lucario and Lucas

[Togii]

Mario Analysis

Pros
+ Due to Kirby's weight, he can't combo you too much
+ Kirby has slightly more range than Mario on his attacks, allowing for careful outspacing.
+ FLUDD is basically useless against Kirby

Cons
- Mario can force you into the air or into shield with Fireball
- Mario's frame data is comparable/better than Kirby's
- Final Cutter is very easy to cape

Copy Ability

Any projectile is useful on Kirby, and Fireball is no exception. Unfortunately, Mario has a reflector, which somewhat inhibits its usefulness.

Custom Moves

Jumping Inhale, since Mario's recovery isn't the best, and Fireball is pretty useful.
Hammer Bash, since Mario will probably not give you time to charge a hammer.
Upper Cutter, because the other two are too easy for Mario to cape. Plus Upper Cutter is amazing.
Grounding Stone is personal preference. Mario can pretty much always punish you if you land with regular stone, and grounding stone lets you get out quicker. Any stone can viably work in the matchup.

Stage Picks

Avoid stages with low ceilings, as Mario kills primarily vertically. I don't think any stages give Kirby too much of an advantage, but I seem to do well on Battlefield and Smashville. Platforms help with avoiding Fireball spam, and I think they benefit Kirby slightly more than Mario.

Additional Notes

Here's me playing against my friend's Mario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkSzN_Mbacc I played bad the first stock due to my roommate talking to me, but bring it back later. Honestly, I would've lost if it weren't for that cape and explosion punch near the end.

Dair is not good against Mario, so try not to rely on it; his utilt, uair, and usmash all beat it out. You can see me try it a few times at the beginning of my video and get punished for it every time (I think I was playing against DK previously and I was in that state of mind).

Gimping Mario is a great idea, but it can be difficult to get through his Fireballs with Kirby's slow air speed. However, if you hit him with any aerial (especially fair or dair) after he's used his jump, he is probably dead.

If you find yourself in shield with Mario throwing Fireballs at you, he will probably go in for a grab after a couple. Read this and punish, or at least don't get grabbed.

Overall

The matchup is pretty even. Both characters have similar strengths. Mario has a better juggle game and speed, but Kirby kills easier and can't get juggled by Mario too much. I think Mario has a slight advantage over Kirby due to his speed and frame data being able to put a lot of pressure on Kirby, and keeping Kirby from juggling Mario, in addition to his ability to camp Kirby pretty well with Fireball. Overall, I give this matchup a 45:55

 

[Altair357]

Sorry for the empty post, but your video seems to be private, @ Togii .

 

[Togii]

In preparation for the rule change, here is a VoD and Challonge of a tourney I just got home from. The VoD is from a replay off my Wii U, since the tourney wasn't streamed.

Challonge: http://challonge.com/czweekly14

VoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPYVzcfVdek

...your video seems to be private, @ Togii .

Fixed.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

In preparation for the rule change, here is a VoD and Challonge of a tourney I just got home from. The VoD is from a replay off my Wii U, since the tourney wasn't streamed.

Challonge: http://challonge.com/czweekly14

VoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPYVzcfVdek



Fixed.

On or offline?

 

[Togii]

On or offline?

In-person tournament at Cyberzone in Phoenix, hence the "tourney I just got home from".

 

[EMPEROR Eevee]

vs
Analysis By Eevee!!

Yo! My first lengthy post in the boards! @fromundaman please input if you don't mind. You too @DtJ XeroXen!

Pros
+F-Tilt/D-Tilt help with spacing in the neutral because of their range.
+Mario's Fireball in Kirby's possession can help with Kirby's approach, keep away, and help more with his off stage game.
+At early percent's(0%-10%?), Mario's BnB (D-throw > Uptilt) only works after the first hit of Up-tilt.
+Kirby can gimp Mario just as easily as he can gimp Kirby.

Cons
-Because of Kirby's weight, Mario can kill him at relatively early percents.
-D-Throw > Up-B is a better option for Mario to use as a throw follow-up at early percents.
-Cape can wreck Kirby if he is forced to use Up-B.
-If Kirby tries to punish Mario with Jab, Mario can punish Kirby by using Up-B.
-Mario's Auto-cancel D-Air can be a pain since we can't use Jab to punish it.

Preferred Custom Moves/Set
3233 or 3231 - Either one of these Custom Sets are good for Kirby in this MU.

*Jumping Inhale: Keep this Neural B. While it's nice to have Mario's Fireball, this move can help with gimping/killing Mario. Spitting him out under the stage or into the Blast Zone makes this or getting Mario off stage makes this Custom useful.

*Hammer Bash: Use Hammer Bash since it is overall better than Regular Hammer and has more and the end lag on the move won't leave you standing there, waiting to be be punished. Like @ Togii said, Mario isn't gonna give you change to charge Giant Hammer. And even if you do, he will most likely Cape you and then what? If you do choose to use Giant Hammer though, only use it after a ledge trump in which your opponent is forced to grab the stage. That way, you can just sit back relax and let Giant Hammer do its job as it punishes them for touching the ledge.

*Upper Cutter: Since this move can hit above the stage when recovering, this can thwart Mario's attempts to edge-guard you. You can even spike opponents off the stage, if they don't tech. Along with that, you can combo into it and kill with. Combine this with Jumping Inhale and Kirby's 6 jump, you shouldn't have any problems recovering.

*Stone/Meteor Stone: Either one of these are a great option. With Regular Stone, you have a kill move, a shield breaker and an edge-guarding tool. With Meteor Stone you get the same perks minus the shield breaker. Just like with Giant Hammer, ledge trump and try to force Mario to grab the ledge so he won't have invincibility. If so, congrats! Meteor Stone will spike him and that's a stock even if he is at 0% when he grab the ledge.

Stages

AVOID LOW CEILING STAGES! Smashville, Battlefield, MiiVerse and Lylat Cruise are the preferred stages to combat Mario on. Stay away from, Duck Hunt, Halberd, Dream Land(?), Delfino Plaza and Town and City.

Overall Score
45:55 in Mario's Favor.(possible 40:60)

Mario's kill power and quickest best Kirby, but Kirby does have the tools to take down Mario.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Want to say good job with the analyses on Mario as of right now, guys! With a few peoples' analyses coming in (when they come in is variable), we should have a lot of things to work with. For times-sake, I will be ending the discussion on EVO week, preferably after EVO, since there is a slight chance our Kirby reps may outline the Mario/Yoshi MU for us.

Anyways, guys and gals, keep up the good work and continue to contribute!

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

/ Match Up Analysis

PROS:

• Yoshi can't gimp Kirby (b-air meteor doesn't gimp us, for example).
• Yoshi has no true kill confirms on us (jab u-smash is DI-able because we are floaty)
• Yoshi doesn't have many combos on us.
• The little amount of grab followups he has don't work on us.

CONS:

• Yoshi out prioritizes us.
• Yoshi out ranges us.
• Yoshi's egg is not clankable, nor catchable. Meaning our only option is to avoid it, which Kirby has trouble doing.
• Yoshi can force us to approach the best out of any character, bringing out Kirby's biggest weakness.
• Yoshi can wall out all of our moves because they are short and Yoshi has the range and priority to beat them out.
• Yoshi's n-air blocks any combo attempt, and you can only move a combo along if you read the n-air and shield.
• Yoshi's air mobility makes him hard to combo and chase down, making getting in on him more difficult than it already is.
• Yoshi's double jump has super armor, so d-air is basically useless against it, Kirby's best edge-guarding tool.
• Yoshi is heavy, meaning you can't kill him early.
• Yoshi can also go really aggressive, and we can't do much about it.
• Yoshi has good kill moves, and Kirby is light.
• Kirby being small isn't an issue for Yoshi.

CUSTOMS:
I would just say our best customs. Jumping inhale can help us get in when we need to, upper cutter can negate yoshi's n-air, hammer bash could interrupt yoshi's double jump (gotta be real lucky tho), and so can stone. Ice breath could be a viable pick in this MU too, since Yoshi's copy ability isn't that good and it could help us against aggro Yoshi's.

STAGES:
Battlefield:

• Helps with the egg problem a lot.
• Reading a n-air when comboing him can get you more off of a punish.
• Weird ledges are bad for Yoshi.

Dreamland:

• Awkward Pineapple is bad for Yoshi (Under the stage).

Lylat

• Awkward ledges for Yoshi's eggs.
• Harder for Yoshi's kill confirms (which are already bad against Kirby).

Basically those stages help with the egg problem, but its still a problem.

DON'T GO:

• FD - eZ eggs
• Smashville - eZ eggs + platform benefits him more than you
• T & C (or any low ceiling stage really) - Yoshi has more vertical kills than you, and you're light and he's heavy.

The rest are pretty neutral.

INHALE:
Don't take it, inhale is better than egg lay, for edge guarding or for simply just covering options.

ADDITIONAL NOTES:
Yoshi is a character that I feel was almost MADE to counter Kirby. Kirby's weaknesses are his approach options (and how weak he is when he is forced to approach), his range, and his weight. Yoshi has the eggs and mobility to force Kirby to approach, out ranges and out prioritizes him, and can kill Kirby surprisingly early.

Yoshi also counters Kirby's GOOD attributes, like his up-close game, combos, and edge-guarding. Yoshi out ranges and our prioritizes Kirby while Yoshi's air mobility makes it easy to avoid Kirby, n-air + double jump super-armor + floatiness makes Yoshi extremely hard to combo, and Yoshi's double jump super-armor and egg toss covering Yoshi's jump make him impossible to edge-guard.

SCORE:
30:70 /

Now I know I was complaining to some people about 70:30 MUs and how they don't exist with Kirby, but this is honestly the rare,and only case. With ZSS, Kirby beats most of ZSS's options with duck, but ZSS has the tools to camp Kirby to finally make him approach, and ZSS isn't toally screwed because reads and mixups.

Yoshi makes Kirby's strength's useless, while making Kirby's weaknesses be used instead, but his weaknesses are equally useless. It's like if you had hooks for hands, and someone removed your hooks and forced you to fight with the nubs you have as hands (since the hooks were placed on the nubs as alternate hands) but then had a shield that was made to block punches by humans. Your strength is useless, but your weakness 9the thing he is forcing out) is also useless.

I would not be surprised if this is the worst MU in the game, and it certainly is Kirby's worst MU by far.

 

[EMPEROR Eevee]

I can't really input on Yoshi since I have only played one Yoshi before and no offense to him, but I bodied him free.

 

[RedNova]

Ok, one of the top five in my local scene uses Mario and I have had a couple of matches with him. I don't know how this evidence system is going to work, so I'm just gonna leave this challonge bracket http://challonge.com/qt2fcg3s from the first tournament I went to. The top 5 of my region went there and there were a couple of pretty intense matches. Unfortuneatley, we lost all the footage, beacuse our dumb friend didn't save it to his computer, so it's sad .

But anyways, here's it:



Pros:

• Cape/F.L.U.D.D is not that dangerous because of the five jumps, except for when you use final cutter, so try to sweetspot the ledge and mixup your recovery timing
• Due to it's floatiness, Kirby can escape Mario's combos easier.
• With five midair jumps, Kirbys not particularly scared of the f-air meteor, but he shoud still be careful.
• Although not very easy to gimp, if you can knock him away from the stage without a second jump, he's dead.
• Always mixup your edgeguard, by sometimes going for the dair, and sometimes for the bair stage spike
• Most of Kirby's attacks come out faster that Mario's

Cons:

• Has no trouble with killing vertically, with his up smash having invencibility
• Up-b is wicked fast and difficult to spike
• F.L.U.D.D or the cape can gimp Kirby if he uses final cutter recklessly.
• Mario's Dair is super safe, and a really good approach option.
• Fireball can force Kirby to shield, so he can come up and grab him to start his combos.

Copy Ability:

• Fireball is an awesome abiliity, which gives Kirby a strong answer to Mario, and can even gimp him if aimed right. Because Kirby is shorter, his fireballs fade faster, so always jump before using them to maximize distance.

Custom Moves:

• As always, Upper Cutter is best Cutter. With the autosweetspot, cape and FLUDD are neutralized, and offstage play is safer.
• Jumping Inhale is better for getting that copy ability from the start
• Hammer Bash is generally safer, but you won't be using it that often
• Either stone is good, as long as you use it with caution. I prefer meteor stone (always) for the 0% kills following a ledge trump, but regular is good for edgeguarding and grounding for extending combos.

Stage Picks:

• Lylat Cruise and Dream Land for the weird edges that Mario can sometimes get trapped underneath, but be ceareful with the latter's low ceiling.
• Battlefield for avoiding those fireballs.
• Low ceiling stages should be avoided

Additional Notes:

• With customs on, Mario gets the powerful Explosive Jump Punch, that can kill Kirby very early. It can be avoided easily
• Wind cape and high pressure FLUDD can be dangerous, but with Upper cutter they don't pose a threat
• Fast fireball can jab lock with ease, so be sure to always tech.

Overall Score:

Either 50:50 or 45:55 in Mario's favor. Both characters are really balanced, and it will be a battle of skill to determine the victor. Both can punish the other one consistently, and can edgeguard the other really well. Mario enjoys killing vertically with his invincible upsmash, while Kirby uses his long feet and Fighter Kick to send Mario to the blast zone

 

[Xeze]

Just a quick reminder: FLUDD is not completely useless vs Kirby. Don't forget that it's not just for edgeguarding. It can reset the neutral game and also screw up Kirby's positioning or stop Kirby if he's trying to approach with aerials.
Overall I feel the matchup is either even or 45:55 in Mario's favor. Kirby is a small target, so Mario has trouble landing SH aerials on him. Follow up Kirby in the air from below is always dangerous due to the stone. On the flipside, Mario can land some early KOs due to Kirby's weight. Additionally, Kirby lacks a proper mean to approach.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Hi, thought I'd add a bit to what Mazdamaxsti said. Eggs are clankable, but they have 2 hits, so in order to beat them you have to either have a move that's disjointed or a move that does 10% or more. Nair can only break combos that are strings and not true combos. As long as Yoshi is still in hitstun he can't do anything to break a combo so choose your options wisely. I'm not sure why you say Yoshi can't gimp Kirby. If we get an air dodge read or you have to use up B we can fair you. I don't know what you mean by priority either. Yoshi has normal priority on all his attacks. Also, avoid Duck Hunt. You can't chase him if he decides to camp you there.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Hi, thought I'd add a bit to what Mazdamaxsti said. Eggs are clankable, but they have 2 hits, so in order to beat them you have to either have a move that's disjointed or a move that does 10% or more. Nair can only break combos that are strings and not true combos. As long as Yoshi is still in hitstun he can't do anything to break a combo so choose your options wisely. I'm not sure why you say Yoshi can't gimp Kirby. If we get an air dodge read or you have to use up B we can fair you. I don't know what you mean by priority either. Yoshi has normal priority on all his attacks. Also, avoid Duck Hunt. You can't chase him if he decides to camp you there.

Well Kirby doesn't have any good moves to clank eggs, I didn't mean theyre impossible to clank. True combos are rare, lets be honest. Kirby can only land 2 u-tilts on Yoshi before they can pull out a n-air. Kirby's combos usually work if the opponent doesn't have a fast sex kick (like Yoshi). What I mean by Yoshi can't gimp Kirby is that Kirby's recovery is good, and it will be tough to chase Kirby offstage. Yoshi would be easy to gimp if we were talking reading airdodges, but we're not.

By priority I was mainly talking n-air, but Yoshi priority is definitely good. Especially since Kirby's isnt that good.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Kirby has good options to gimp Yoshi with anyway. If you can't dair his heavy armor then you can footstool him, and whenever you can't footstool you can dair him. Not so bad imo.

You haven't said what you mean by priority. lol Yoshi's nair has normal priority. I just checked, all of Kirby's A moves have normal priority except the final hit of dash attack (it's transcendent).

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Kirby has good options to gimp Yoshi with anyway. If you can't dair his heavy armor then you can footstool him, and whenever you can't footstool you can dair him. Not so bad imo.

You haven't said what you mean by priority. lol Yoshi's nair has normal priority. I just checked, all of Kirby's A moves have normal priority except the final hit of dash attack (it's transcendent).

Just because a move isnt transcendant doesnt mean it has lower priority.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

You're still not explaining what you're talking about so I'll just tell you about priority.

Normal Priority: When a move has normal priority grounded moves can clank with grounded moves. Aerials do not clank except against projectiles that are clankable. clankable moves can be out prioritized if the colliding hitboxes deal 9% more damage. (the only moves Yoshi has that can do this are his smashes and Kirby's do too)

Transcendent Priority: Cannot clank at all

Ground/Air Exception Priority: Moves with this priority can clank with aerials/grounded moves freely as long as they aren't transcendent. Aerials that are cancelled continue their animation allowing multihits to continue.

Ucancelable Priority: When this move clanks it continues the animation much like aerials (cannot collide with aerials though), and the move will not suffer hitlag when cancelled.

All of Yoshi's priority is normal Nair cannot out prioritize any of Kirby's moves because it doesn't clank. Maybe outrange it, but not out prioritize.

 

[Togii]

All of Yoshi's priority is normal Nair cannot out prioritize any of Kirby's moves because it doesn't clank. Maybe outrange it, but not out prioritize.

I think he's trying to say that Yoshi has very few startup frames on average, meaning that most of Yoshi's hitboxes come out quicker than Kirby's (and a majority of the cast), even if the moves are technically started at the same time. Calling it priority is a really common misconception in the community.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

You're still not explaining what you're talking about so I'll just tell you about priority.

Normal Priority: When a move has normal priority grounded moves can clank with grounded moves. Aerials do not clank except against projectiles that are clankable. clankable moves can be out prioritized if the colliding hitboxes deal 9% more damage. (the only moves Yoshi has that can do this are his smashes and Kirby's do too)

Transcendent Priority: Cannot clank at all

Ground/Air Exception Priority: Moves with this priority can clank with aerials/grounded moves freely as long as they aren't transcendent. Aerials that are cancelled continue their animation allowing multihits to continue.

Ucancelable Priority: When this move clanks it continues the animation much like aerials (cannot collide with aerials though), and the move will not suffer hitlag when cancelled.

All of Yoshi's priority is normal Nair cannot out prioritize any of Kirby's moves because it doesn't clank. Maybe outrange it, but not out prioritize.

Sorry, yeah I think I was using the wrong term. Look at what Togii said for what I meant by priority. But I still stand by my case that the Kirby/Yoshi MU is 30/70 and probably his worst MU.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

That's good and all but according to this comparison Kirby has lower startup on average than Yoshi overall and in aerials. granted none of them are faster than Yoshi's nair, but nair is Yoshi's only real option sometimes which can be predictable. I really think the biggest problem for Kirby is just range and mobility.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

That's good and all but according to this comparison Kirby has lower startup on average than Yoshi overall and in aerials. granted none of them are faster than Yoshi's nair, but nair is Yoshi's only real option sometimes which can be predictable. I really think the biggest problem for Kirby is just range and mobility.

Averages are not always accurate. For example, you can't average the amount of rain per day in the desert because it would be like 1-2 cm avg per day, when really it rarely rains. Its like this in this case.

Yoshi has fast moves, barely behind Kirby, yet Yoshi has f-air, which is really slow and brings down the average Yoshi. If a character had god frame data in aerials, but then an aerial which had 30 frames of startup (for example), they would still be a fast character.

Range, mobility, eggs, there are a lot of things that make this MU bad.

 

[salaboB]

Range, mobility, eggs, there are a lot of things that make this MU bad.

Yoshi's up-smash alone probably makes it really hard to get in. It's got a deceptively long reach.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Hi, thought I'd add a bit to what Mazdamaxsti said. Eggs are clankable, but they have 2 hits, so in order to beat them you have to either have a move that's disjointed or a move that does 10% or more. Nair can only break combos that are strings and not true combos. As long as Yoshi is still in hitstun he can't do anything to break a combo so choose your options wisely. I'm not sure why you say Yoshi can't gimp Kirby. If we get an air dodge read or you have to use up B we can fair you. I don't know what you mean by priority either. Yoshi has normal priority on all his attacks. Also, avoid Duck Hunt. You can't chase him if he decides to camp you there.

Yeah, I know the pain. Anyways, do you have a MU ratio with this MU? Just curious.

With Yoshi, well, what else can I say that hasn't been said? He may not be fast with some attacks, but his mobility, range, and eggs make it easy for the dinosaur to stall out Kirby with hitboxes. We can't combo thanks to N-Air, and he can kill us early through a variety of moves. I dread this MU like the plague, but I wish I had evidence of the MU myself to give credence to the statements I make. Perhaps another day...

 

[Wintermelon43]

Wen did we get 50:50 for Falco? We didn't discuss him yet, right?

 

[Togii]

Wen did we get 50:50 for Falco? We didn't discuss him yet, right?

I don't think we discussed Rosalina either, and the only Diddy discussion we've had was before his 1st nerf - and I don't think it was 40:60. I'm also unsure why Pikachu is the only character whose ratio is rounded to the nearest 1.5.

@ SapphSabre777 Where are you getting this data? Are you pulling it from other boards?

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

I don't think we discussed Rosalina either, and the only Diddy discussion we've had was before his 1st nerf - and I don't think it was 40:60. I'm also unsure why Pikachu is the only character whose ratio is rounded to the nearest 1.5.

@ SapphSabre777 Where are you getting this data? Are you pulling it from other boards?

Data/ If you mean what he said about Yoshi, its just common knowledge mang

 

[Togii]

Data/ If you mean what he said about Yoshi, its just common knowledge mang

I was replying to SapphSabre777, not Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ, and I was referring to the matchup ratios in the main post. I don't think SapphSabre777 posted any Yoshi data that I could be referring to.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Yeah, I know the pain. Anyways, do you have a MU ratio with this MU? Just curious.

-2 for Kirby or 35:65 maybe it's worse though? I don't have much experience with Kirby.

 

[SapphSabre777]

@ Wintermelon43 @ Togii @ Mazdamaxsti Nice catch! My apologies, that is an error on my part. HTML is very tricky to maintain and I guess I overlooked that oversight. Dedede, MK, and Fox got displaced right by one, so I'll fix that right away. When you work on the layout of something for 3 hours, you tend to lose the sense of detail.
Again, my apologies!

On another note, I am curious as to what everybody's stance is on using Strawpoll. I was considering going for a "pick 2 out of the x amount" poll for next "week" with something like Google Forms, but I wanted to see if the rest of you are ok with Strawpoll and such. Feel free to let me know...either here, PMs to me, or some other third way.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Wait, so Fox is EVEN? How?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! He's defitenly our favor

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Wait, so Fox is EVEN? How?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! He's defitenly our favor

It isn't tho. Just because we have eZ edge guards and good combos, he also has things on us. U-tilt still combos into his aerials well, he can poke us easy, duck only helps lasers, etc.

 

[Wintermelon43]

It isn't tho. Just because we have eZ edge guards and good combos, he also has things on us. U-tilt still combos into his aerials well, he can poke us easy, duck only helps lasers, etc.

We can inhale their lasers. Ans the lasers are pretty good

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

We can inhale their lasers. Ans the lasers are pretty good

That doesn't make the MU in our favour though, thats one aspect of a MU.

 

[Agent Emerald]

@ Wintermelon43 @ Togii @ Mazdamaxsti Nice catch! My apologies, that is an error on my part. HTML is very tricky to maintain and I guess I overlooked that oversight. Dedede, MK, and Fox got displaced right by one, so I'll fix that right away. When you work on the layout of something for 3 hours, you tend to lose the sense of detail.
Again, my apologies!

On another note, I am curious as to what everybody's stance is on using Strawpoll. I was considering going for a "pick 2 out of the x amount" poll for next "week" with something like Google Forms, but I wanted to see if the rest of you are ok with Strawpoll and such. Feel free to let me know...either here, PMs to me, or some other third way.

Strawpoll it. It's super simple. The only long part would be entering everyone's name.

I made this in probably less than 2 minutes:
http://strawpoll.me/4889048

 

[Wintermelon43]

That doesn't make the MU in our favour though, thats one aspect of a MU.

Well the rest of it is pretty good too.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Alright guys, I'm giving you all the chance of a lifetime here. With so many matchups that aren't even discussed, I am giving each of you the chance to highlight the matchups that should be the big focus. I have two Strawpoll outlining all of the characters (DLC and MIi included in the 2nd), and it will just function like a mega-poll and a look at which matchups mean the most to us.

Just like last time, highest two will be chosen from the combination of the two polls, and you aren't required to vote on both parts of the poll (you can vote on part 1, but choose not to on part 2, etc.). Just pick the matchups that are relevant and vote on them, so that we may discuss them for another day!

Part 1: http://strawpoll.me/4891357 (undiscussed main roster)
Part 2: http://strawpoll.me/4891364 (undiscussed DLC and Miis)

Thank you, guys, and happy discussing/voting!

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Well the rest of it is pretty good too.

Please be more specific.

 

[Togii]

Well the rest of it is pretty good too.

Honestly the Fox matchup is definitely in Fox's favor. Idk why everyone on this board was so delusional that week. The only thing we have on him is utilt. Gimping him is a plus, but he can mix up his recovery so we really have a 50:50 on that front. Meanwhile, he runs circles around us, has a projectile, has all the tools to make sure we can't land, and has some of the best kill power in the game. I got a lot of pushback for my analysis that week, but I don't see how anyone can think that matchup is in Kirby's favor.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Honestly the Fox matchup is definitely in Fox's favor. Idk why everyone on this board was so delusional that week. The only thing we have on him is utilt. Gimping him is a plus, but he can mix up his recovery so we really have a 50:50 on that front. Meanwhile, he runs circles around us, has a projectile, has all the tools to make sure we can't land, and has some of the best kill power in the game. I got a lot of pushback for my analysis that week, but I don't see how anyone can think that matchup is in Kirby's favor.

Kirby can use his projectile, so that part's even. Also, our air game is good aganist Fox for some reason. That's why it's 55:45

 

[SapphSabre777]

As much as I love a good debate in regards to MU Discussion, I think it would be best to limit that sort of talk about a past matchup. Talking about a past matchup is fine and dandy, but when there is a current matchup can create dissonance between what we are talking about and what we should be talking about; in this instance, arguing about the Fox MU while we should be talking about the Mario and Yoshi MU while they still going on. It breaks the flow and makes people unneededly change their line of focus. With discussions like matchups being explained, it means we lose a lot of time and effort from those who can contribute.

I must ask you guys to please focus on our current matchups of Mario and Yoshi, making evaluations and finding others for evaluations.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Well, I think Yoshi shold be 35:65, I don't know about Mario