The State of Smash (Smash Bros. State of the Union)

[Grass]

As I type this, I am currently playing both melee and smash 4. Before anyone attacks me because I play smash 4, I would ill advise anyone to try it what with the Apex incident. Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to address something. I as a fellow smasher among you people wish to make something clear. I love melee and I love smash as a whole. But it is time we moved forward. I know a lot of melee players loath to move towards smash 4 and I understand where you come from. A lot of it feels like Brawl and I get that. However the pace is much faster than Brawl and while I realize killing in Smash 4 at under 100%s has become somewhat commonplace in the meta game, I want to remind everyone that we should remember that we are all here to enjoy a game that we all love. So why am I making this thread in Melee, you ask? It's simple I wanted to talk about Melee and how it has aged to this day. Melee is a 10+ year old game that we all hold dear to us, and while it's graphics and gameplay once astounded us, we have better technology then we did a decade ago. I think Melee HD is a possibility if we start voicing our opinions to Nintendo, but more specifically Sakurai. Sakurai, I know you have no intention of making another smash game past Smash 4. Fine. How about remaking an old game with updated graphics and keep the things about Melee that made everyone enjoy it so much. I know a lot of people have wanted Melee HD since smash 4 came out and after looking at WindWaker HD, I think this might be possible. However, we have to remember Melee is Sakurai's property and if he doesn't want to make Melee HD, we can't do anything about it. I also want to touch on Smash 4. I've talked it over with a few friends recently and I told that smash 4 is basically melee 2.0 not brawl 2.0. I say this because alot of simplistic aspects of melee are in Smash 4. And before people bash me over this comment. I'd like to point the fact Daddy Sakurai did NOT include an adventure mode like in Brawl. But I'm not going to go in-depth regarding that issue. Staying on topic, I'd like also like you guys to realize how long we've come since Competitive Melee 2006. It's been a whopping 8 years and the game is still in circulation. We all love smash so I think I want everyone to know this simple fact. Smash won't die, even if Sakurai decides to stop making Smash. However the IP must go somewhere eventually. Sakurai isn't like Capcom holding their IPs hostage so it may not be tomorrow or the next year, but I have faith that some day we will have Melee HD. Until then, let your voice be heard on twitter that we want Melee HD. Grass, out.

 

[Xyzz]

a) Line breaks are top tier when it comes to improving the readability of your post; use them.
b) You play smash4, cool. What exactly does that have to do with anything?
c) many, if not most, melee players don't care much for melee with HD graphics.
d) "But it is time we moved forward." / "I want to remind everyone that we should remember that we are all here to enjoy a game that we all love". Why exactly should I move "forward" to a game I don't really see myself enjoying too much?

 

[Grass]

d) "But it is time we moved forward." / "I want to remind everyone that we should remember that we are all here to enjoy a game that we all love". Why exactly should I move "forward" to a game I don't really see myself enjoying too much?

Did I say you had to play smash 4? Did I say smash 4 was the way forward? No. The problem with melee players is they refuse to let go of the past. You just answered your own question regarding the HD graphics issue.

People do want to see an updated Melee. If you don't, that's fine. It's your choice, but I know a lot of people who would like to see an updated version of the past. I personally think if you people don't want to move forward, I'll move forward with those that do. I don't think people need a reason to stick with the past. It's the same reason card games have multiple formats every few years.

 

[Jebus244]

I think it would be great if there was a melee HD for wii u. Being able to play on a console instead of an emulator. Cool stuff. But I still got a cube and a PC to play on, so whatever.

That said-

No.

Sm4sh is not melee 2.0. It really isn't even close.

 

[Spak]

Did I say you had to play smash 4? Did I say smash 4 was the way forward? No. The problem with melee players is they refuse to let go of the past. You just answered your own question regarding the HD graphics issue.

Even if we had an HD Melee, SD Melee would still be tournament-standard. CRT setups are normal for Melee; having various gaming monitors would introduce lag that varies from setup to setup, causing some conflicts.

 

[Jebus244]

Even if we had an HD Melee, SD Melee would still be tournament-standard. CRT setups are normal for Melee; having various gaming monitors would introduce lag that varies from setup to setup, causing some conflicts.

Meh, but that's not really a good reason. WII U's can be hooked to CRT's, and there are already monitor standards soo..

 

[Grass]

Meh, but that's not really a good reason. WII U's can be hooked to CRT's, and there are already monitor standards soo..

Umm Melee HD would save a lot of people having to carry around CRTs. Do you have any idea how heavy those things are?

Also as far as melee HD is concerned, I'd like to have Smash 4's models. I personally like the newer look of the characters like Fox/Falco/Marth/Jigglypuff. An HD remix with all of smash 4's costumes would be great imo.

 

[Spak]

Meh, but that's not really a good reason. WII U's can be hooked to CRT's, and there are already monitor standards soo..

Hmmm... I'd never heard the monitor standards before...

Anyways, the Smash Bros. IP doesn't belong to Sakurai; it belongs to Nintendo. In addition, I agree with Jebus244 with Sm4sh not being Melee 2.0. The simplistic aspects that you were talking about don't go very deep into the gameplay as L-Cancelling, land-cancelling projectiles, pretty much all the ledge mechanics, light shielding, wavedashing, moonwalking, dashdancing, DI, and numerous other mechanics were left out. In addition, while it is faster than Brawl, it's not nearly as fast as Melee and a majority of characters can recover from nearly anywhere inside the blastzones. I agree that Sm4sh is superior as a game content-wise, but Melee is still far better in terms of gameplay.

Umm Melee HD would save a lot of people having to carry around CRTs. Do you have any idea how heavy those things are?

Yes, but they're reliably lag-free. Plus, portable CRTs aren't that heavy.

 

[Jebus244]

Also as far as melee HD is concerned, I'd like to have Smash 4's models. I personally like the newer look of the characters like Fox/Falco/Marth/Jigglypuff. An HD remix with all of smash 4's costumes would be great imo.

Try Project M. It's actually more like Melee 2.0. What's exciting about PM is there is still so much potential for tier shifting. I wouldn't say melee is figured out, definitely not, but if that says anything about its depth, take its mechanics, add a few more, and then more characters! PM is virtually unexplored compared to melee. Plus it has nicer looking models, but some people like the retro look too.

 

[Shamoz]

I'm really not sure about Melee HD. The issue is that Sakurai probably sees many of Melee's mechanics as flaws instead of perks. Forcing him to leave glitches (which have become integrated into the meta) in the game intentionally would be torturous.

Try Project M. It's actually more like Melee 2.0. What's exciting about PM is there is still so much potential for tier shifting. I wouldn't say melee is figured out, definitely not, but if that says anything about its depth, take its mechanics, add a few more, and then more characters! PM is virtually unexplored compared to melee. Plus it has nicer looking models, but some people like the retro look too.

Project M still isn't quite ready to become a Melee 2.0 yet. It just feels very different, perhaps a bit too easy and exploitable in certain areas. But you're right, it's certainly a step in the right direction for melee "purity". Too bad Nintendo shuns it...

 

[Grass]

I'm really not sure about Melee HD. The issue is that Sakurai probably sees many of Melee's mechanics as flaws instead of perks. Forcing him to leave glitches (which have become integrated into the meta) in the game intentionally would be torturous.

There were flaws in Windwaker HD too so...Cause, personally, I think smash 4 is as close to melee HD as we can get at the moment unless Sakurai somehow says he'll do it.

Yes, but they're reliably lag-free. Plus, portable CRTs aren't that heavy.

touche, though unless you're willing to fund the next Apex with a bunch of portable CRTs, I don't think people are going to go through with the idea. Lag or not, one CRT isn't heavy by itself, it's painful when you have like 100 or so TVs to bring to Apex.

 

[Custom]

I don't really feel people are troubled by the points in the OP, I and my group of friends have really no problem with the way things are.

 

[Spak]

Unless things have changed since 2013, Apex is still exclusively CRTs...

 

[Blarg]

Did I say you had to play smash 4? Did I say smash 4 was the way forward? No. The problem with melee players is they refuse to let go of the past. You just answered your own question regarding the HD graphics issue.

People do want to see an updated Melee. If you don't, that's fine. It's your choice, but I know a lot of people who would like to see an updated version of the past. I personally think if you people don't want to move forward, I'll move forward with those that do. I don't think people need a reason to stick with the past. It's the same reason card games have multiple formats every few years.

I have to disagree with you here. People don't play Melee because they're living in the past. They play it because it is more enjoyable as a competitive game. At least, that's where I'm coming from. I don't live in the past. I own a Wii U, and I own Smash 4. I've played all the Smash games religiously since their release (yes, even Brawl) but didn't really start to get competitive until Smash 4 thanks to its (reasonably) competent online service. However, after about 400 matches I've decided I just don't enjoy Smash 4's metagame. As such, I'm looking to get back into Melee.

Personally, I would love a Melee HD that maintains the original mechanics with improved graphics and online functionality. I don't see why this would be a problem at tournaments as long as they use good monitors. I game on a 27" monitor with a latency of about 1-2 ms.

 

[AirFair]

Yeah, I don't think people would want to move from the CRT standard. Competitive Melee is just awesome to play. It's not that sm4sh is bad, it's just preference.

 

[Grass]

I have to disagree with you here. People don't play Melee because they're living in the past. They play it because it is more enjoyable as a competitive game.

That's a great opinion, but I disagree. I do however, respect your opinion on the matter. I was just in Nakat's stream earlier today and even he thinks that melee players are living in the past. And the reason I say this is because, and I'm not trying to offend anyone but, they have a very backwards kind of thought process. This may have something to do with the documentary, but I'm not here to blame that for the influx of hate. But the case is that the documentary had some degree of influence that I cannot deny that pushed people towards liking melee over brawl. But I cannot understand the mass hate people have for smash 4 as a game. If you don't like it, fine. I'm not here to judge. I got into smash during brawl when it was more easily accessible to me. I played melee as well, before brawl and I ended up loving both games. I'm now at a point where I'm completely okay with Brawl and Smash 4. I like them as games, and I accept the flaws they have.

My only real problem is why people hate Smash 4 and why a lot of the hate comes from Melee players.

Yeah, I don't think people would want to move from the CRT standard. Competitive Melee is just awesome to play. It's not that sm4sh is bad, it's just preference.

I know it's a standard, but what I'm trying to say is, it would lessen the burden of moving around CRTs to these events.

 

[Blarg]

That's a great opinion, but I disagree. I do however, respect your opinion on the matter. I was just in Nakat's stream earlier today and even he thinks that melee players are living in the past. And the reason I say this is because, and I'm not trying to offend anyone but, they have a very backwards kind of thought process. This may have something to do with the documentary, but I'm not here to blame that for the influx of hate. But the case is that the documentary had some degree of influence that I cannot deny that pushed people towards liking melee over brawl. But I cannot understand the mass hate people have for smash 4 as a game. If you don't like it, fine. I'm not here to judge. I got into smash during brawl when it was more easily accessible to me. I played melee as well, before brawl and I ended up loving both games. I'm now at a point where I'm completely okay with Brawl and Smash 4. I like them as games, and I accept the flaws they have.

My only real problem is why people hate Smash 4 and why a lot of the hate comes from Melee players.




I know it's a standard, but what I'm trying to say is, it would lessen the burden of moving around CRTs to these events.

You can't really say you're not trying to offend anyone, then use a blanket statement like "they have a very backwards thought process". You have to understand, you criticizing Melee people for playing Melee is just as bad as the hate Smash 4 gets which you take exception with.

I haven't seen Nakat's stream or the documentary and I don't use other people's opinions to influence my own, just my experiences. I don't want to get into it all right now but there are aspects of Smash 4's gameplay that frustrate me and can often cause the game to devolve into an overly defensive match at higher levels. That's what has been steering me toward Melee lately. It has nothing to do with anyone's opinions or when the games were released or what system they are on.

Don't get me wrong, I have played a lot of Smash 4 and I do enjoy it. I will no doubt continue to play it for fun. I just can't get into it competitively anymore.

(Of course I suck at Melee so this is all probably a moot point anyway)

 

[Jebus244]

@ Grass . There really is no living in the past. If apex proved anything it's that melee has continued to grow, and it has a future. I think people trying to play sm4sh on a competitive level are taking the "hate" too seriously. I don't hate sm4sh, I have just practiced melee's mechanics so I can compete. Sm4sh does not feel the same, it doesn't give me the same sense of control. Even after learning perfect pivots, the ridiculous timing for dash dancing, dance trotting, pivot edge attacks, frame cancelled attack (falcon's Dair, amirite?) it's still not the same. I know if I played longer, perhaps it would feel better, and I will continue to play. Hell, I just bought a 3ds so I could get mewtwo and play when I'm out of town.

Right now, the game is not so refined, and the apex crowd wasn't interested in seeing an unrefined game over one as tight as melee. Imo, this was partially because top level play is boring to watch right now, but I'm sure it was mostly because it was pushing back melee to midnight on a Sunday.

 

[Grass]

You can't really say you're not trying to offend anyone, then use a blanket statement like "they have a very backwards thought process".

I'd like to point out how much flak Brawl players had when Brawl came onto the scene. Melee players ridiculed and harassed Brawl players. I'm using my experience based on what previously happened in this community. I'm not just spouting bs out of my ass. This happened. And no one in the community can deny it. I'm sorry but the way a lot of players in the community (specifically melee players) have this ass backwards ideal that Melee is the one and only definitive game. I'm not saying every melee player in the world acts this way but a large majority do.

@ Grass . There really is no living in the past. If apex proved anything it's that melee has continued to grow, and it has a future.

I'm sorry to say this but Melee is slowly dying out. The rest of us are moving forward. I think Melee is a great game, but sticking to melee just makes me think that people who only like melee think only of melee and nothing else. Just my opinion.

I think people trying to play sm4sh on a competitive level are taking the "hate" too seriously. I don't hate sm4sh, I have just practiced melee's mechanics so I can compete. Sm4sh does not feel the same, it doesn't give me the same sense of control. Even after learning perfect pivots, the ridiculous timing for dash dancing, dance trotting, pivot edge attacks, frame cancelled attack (falcon's Dair, amirite?) it's still not the same. I know if I played longer, perhaps it would feel better, and I will continue to play. Hell, I just bought a 3ds so I could get mewtwo and play when I'm out of town.

I have a hard time not taking hate seriously. You do know how many people look at this community and us as a whole and think that we're a cool group to get into. Apex proved that we have a few bad apples that ruin the fun for the rest of us, that is all. I'm not happy with it nor am I satisfied with how people have acted on the final day. For those of us who have followed smash since the beginning, I think it just makes us all look really really bad.

Right now, the game is not so refined, and the apex crowd wasn't interested in seeing an unrefined game over one as tight as melee. Imo, this was partially because top level play is boring to watch right now, but I'm sure it was mostly because it was pushing back melee to midnight on a Sunday.

Top level play can be boring if it's fox dittos from semis on up, however watching fox v falco or fox v marth or peach makes the matchups seem a little more interesting. I think the other big thing is the delays we've had up until and during Apex that caused a lot of frustration with the community. However, I don't think this is the reason for people getting riled up.

 

[Custom]

I think you're just trying to start arguments do to anger over melee players trashing on smash 4. The melee community doesn't really care about these issues and will go along just fine as we have been and continue to grow as 1024 melee players at Apex showed. Don't worry about melee players talking trash either, the ones that really matter couldn't care less and just want to keep playing melee as should you for playing smash 4 or smash as a whole.

Just leave it be, there doesn't have to be an issue here.

 

[goobaje]

I really dont think this is the best way to go about this. I play both sm4sh and melee, but mostly melee. I really don't think Melee players should be forced to "move on" because it just doesn't make sense. Why would you make someone play melee in sm4sh, when we have a large following for both? No one should be forced to move on because they are different games with different tech skill.

Just because its a new smash game doesnt mean everyone should immediately jump ship. Melee is huge, and it cant really be seen dying down anytime soon, as its only getting bigger.

People shouldn't move on, people should play what they wanna play.

 

[goobaje]

I'd like to point out how much flak Brawl players had when Brawl came onto the scene. Melee players ridiculed and harassed Brawl players.

Also, this didn't happen as soon as brawl came onto the scene. It only happened once Brawl was Meta Knight Ditto the Game. I understand there are a lot of space animals in Melee, but thats not all that can be played and not all thats viable, as we have seen our boy PPMD win Apex with his Marth.

 

[Grass]

Just leave it be, there doesn't have to be an issue here.

So you think I'm just instigating a problem. I'm sorry, but being ignorant doesn't solve issues in this community. Ignoring the giant elephant doesn't make it go away.

Also, this didn't happen as soon as brawl came onto the scene. It only happened once Brawl was Meta Knight Ditto the Game

This issue came very quickly when people saw how much the pace differed between brawl and melee. The rift was almost instantaneous. I can't understand how you people can ignore an issue like this. Pretend this never happened. Maybe it didn't happen to YOU but it happened to a lot of people.

 

[BluEG]

Sorry. This thread is dumb.
If Melee players were living in the past and Smash 4 was the hot new thing, there would have been more entrants for Smash 4 than Melee at Apex. Any argument that can be made to refute the previous statement I just made is contrived and pointless...there is clear evidence for Melee being more popular and growing faster than Smash 4.

And Smash 4 being Melee 2.0? LOL
Do a side by side comparison of Brawl vs Smash4 and then Melee vs Smash4 and its clear as day that Smash 4 is simply a fixed version of Brawl.

Grass. Stop instigating an argument for the sake of one.

/thread.

 

[Spak]

I'm sorry to say this but Melee is slowly dying out.

Exemplified by how much the Melee community has grown over the past year.

 

[Jebus244]

@ Grass . Your last few comments convinced me that you only feel strongly about these things and have no actual knowledge of what you're talking about. Melee had record breaking entrants at apex this year. Don't come in here on your high horse preaching equallity with your own dose of hate. I don't want to call you out because I dont think you actually play melee, or at least not very well. I think you see a game with outdated graphics, 6-7 viable characters (which recent results have players skeptical about) and hardly any buffer on the controls. If you don't want to invest time into understanding why long time melee players prefer this game and assume it's because of tradition then im not going to argue with you. It's like telling chess players to move on to RISK.

 

[Custom]

@ Grass It's like telling chess players to move on to RISK.

That's a pretty solid analogy.

/thread please

 

[Roko Jono]

/thread please

Nothing is happening in this discussion. I would say more, but many people here have said what I would have said. Its obvious the intentions of some of the posters here and I don't think it belongs here.

/thread please

 

[Grass]

@ Grass . Your last few comments convinced me that you only feel strongly about these things and have no actual knowledge of what you're talking about

*sigh* There is plenty of evidence of this. The fact you use Apex as your example only exemplifies how arrogant you players have been acting.

Don't come in here on your high horse preaching equality with your own dose of hate.

Hate...I have never once claimed I hate Melee. Nor will I ever.. -_-

I don't want to call you out because I dont think you actually play melee, or at least not very well.

Wow you guys really are a piece of ****ing work. I came here in hopes of breaking bread with you guys and making peace. And all I get is more hate. Damn you people really can't deal with the facts of life...

I think you see a game with outdated graphics, 6-7 viable characters (which recent results have players skeptical about) and hardly any buffer on the controls. If you don't want to invest time into understanding why long time melee players prefer this game and assume it's because of tradition then im not going to argue with you. It's like telling chess players to move on to RISK.

Investing time in looking into something that is so blatantly futile is an absolute waste of my time. I'm done talking. You guys act all high and mighty and pretend nothing is wrong with this community. You preach that Melee is above all and none shall discredit the game. I'm sick of this. I honestly don't care what happens at Evo anymore. Nakat was right, you guys really just won't learn..smh.

 

[Roukiske]

@ Grass I'm not entirely sure what your original post is about. Are you an advocate about a Melee HD port (there's a thread or two about this already) or are we discussing playing a different game or are we discussing rude people? I'm not sure, but here's my 2 cents.

I've played Melee since 2005 with a few breaks (I'm a gamer after all, I like to play millions of games) and what people have said, "There is no game like Melee". Now I'm just saying that because I think Brawl is not like Melee and Sm4sh is not like Melee. I'm not saying this to be arrogant, I'm just saying we haven't gotten a successor to its type of gameplay, hence I still play Melee. I'm not stating its the best game ever (its one of my favorite games however this is my opinion) and I don't hate anyone for playing Sm4sh. They're just different.

I'm sorry, I do not know who this Nakat is, but from a quick google I see he is a Brawl and Sm4sh player, a very high ranked one it seems too. I don't know if he's played Melee at all or the OP has, but to be completely honest, I will just say, if you haven't played it at a high level, then you may not have seen how unique it is compared to other fighting games out there. I don't really see anyone in this thread say things like "omg its not Melee" or "that other game sucks don't play it" (I skimmed sorry + sometimes they are said as sarcasm jokes), but I don't think anyone here is trying to say that. I think we're all initially pretty civil here. I'm not doubting there's something wrong with the community, but there's a good amount of people who don't want to start fires too, and I feel since I'm active here you may think I'm apart of those people who want to talk trash. I know Melee isn't perfect, but we love it for exactly what it is. Its okay to critique the game, just try not to generalize things or say something that fans flames is all.

"There ain't no game like Melee", BUT the plot twist:

I joined SB while Sm4sh was still in development. It's a cool game, but its different. It's not the same, but fun and I think has a future as its own game. We can't live in the past if the future (Melee style gameplay) is not there. I HAPPILY play both games and I think I've put my input here in both games trying to help new players and trying to discuss strategies. I have not once (I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong) told anyone they should play the other game. I have made comparisons like you can do this and that in one, but cannot do this and that in the other as strategic tips, especially for other people who play both, which I'm sure many people do. I want to help a lot of people get into both games really. Even my diehard Melee friends who I practice with don't think Sm4sh is bad, they know its different and respect it. Again, I'm not trying to criticize Sm4sh with this statement, "It's not Melee", which is true, its another Smash game and there is A B S O L U T E L Y nothing wrong with that. They're both fun. They both have limits to what a player can or cannot do in their game. They have different high level play and metas. I play it for what it is and strive for high level while kindly helping others (on streams when I'm on, forums, and in person).

I hope I helped clear up some confusion that may be around here. We can't keep the flames burning, we have to put it out. Don't end anything on a negative note, we're all people here who play video games.

Jeez what a long rambling post, thanks for reading whoever did!

Kind late but I hope anyone reading this did not read it in an angry tone or anything... I'm more concerned if anything.

 

[Custom]

"Investing time in looking into something that is so blatantly futile is an absolute waste of my time. I'm done talking. You guys act all high and mighty and pretend nothing is wrong with this community. You preach that Melee is above all and none shall discredit the game. I'm sick of this. I honestly don't care what happens at Evo anymore. Nakat was right, you guys really just won't learn..smh." @ Grass

You came into here! Why would you come into the melee forum, hell, a forum dedicated to any single game and tell the players their game is outdated and they need to move on when none of them even regard any of these issues. Smash 4 people don't even feel we need to quit our game, we're pretty fine just being separate.

I am so sorry that you are incredibly wounded from whatever melee sm4sh flamewar you just came from but starting crap here is just childish. Trust me I get pissed sometimes too at stupid comments/discussions but I just brush it off cause those words will never take my enjoyment from melee away, just as it shouldn't with any game.

 

[TheTwistedHero]

I actually kinda agree to an extent with Grass. The game is basically pushed to its limits. A game can only have so much depth, and the internet speeds up the process of finding new tech. And lets be real here, only like half of the cast is really viable in competitive Melee. We may not be ready to switch yet, but we may be on our way to hitting the bedrock of Melee's tech

 

[Roukiske]

I actually kinda agree to an extent with Grass. The game is basically pushed to its limits. A game can only have so much depth, and the internet speeds up the process of finding new tech. And lets be real here, only like half of the cast is really viable in competitive Melee. We may not be ready to switch yet, but we may be on our way to hitting the bedrock of Melee's tech

Hitting the pinnacle of skill (and oh man are we far from doing that due to human limitations) doesn't mean a game has is going anywhere. Remember we know a whole lot about the game, maybe even everything, but we for sure do not have the ability yet to actually do those things. Regardless, that doesn't mean the game wont be fun for some. Its still fun for me. In regards to switching, I mentioned this in my previous longass post, what would we switch to? Sm4sh is not the same (though I still play that too).

Did you know they found out mathematically that if played perfectly, the first player who goes in Connect 4 will always win? I still play it with my friends, its fun, we don't care that much.

 

[TheTwistedHero]

Hitting the pinnacle of skill (and oh man are we far from doing that due to human limitations) doesn't mean a game has is going anywhere. Remember we know a whole lot about the game, maybe even everything, but we for sure do not have the ability yet to actually do those things. Regardless, that doesn't mean the game wont be fun for some. Its still fun for me. In regards to switching, I mentioned this in my previous longass post, what would we switch to? Sm4sh is not the same (though I still play that too).

Did you know they found out mathematically that if played perfectly, the first player who goes in Connect 4 will always win? I still play it with my friends, its fun, we don't care that much.

True, but I'm talking about the extremely hardcore crowd. Im just worried that we may reach a point like Marvel Vs Capcom, where we see the same characters and strategies in place over and over again, which can become a bit repetitive to some.

 

[Spak]

And lets be real here, only like half of the cast is really viable in competitive Melee.

Tell that to Germ (a really good Link main), aMSa (a really good Yoshi), Gimpyfish (was a really good Bowser), and any of the other high-level low-tier players. Nearly everyone In the top 3/4 of the tier list has a mid-high level competitive player. True, at the highest possible level only the top half is very viable, but mid-high to low level play, more of the cast is viable.

 

[Lorenzo The Comic]

Im just worried that we may reach a point like Marvel Vs Capcom, where we see the same characters and strategies in place over and over again, which can become a bit repetitive to some.

What MvC game are we talking about?

 

[Jebus244]

EDIT: I'm sorry @ Grass . I hope sm4sh has a healthy competitive future, maybe one day I'll even participate. Smash is one thing I use to escape and I don't want to rob that joy from anyone. Just don't tell me my game is dying. Don't you dare.

 

[Altea77]

This thread is confusing. Are you or are you not telling Melee players to move on to Smash 4?

On another topic, I don't see why any Melee players would not want an HD Melee. That is living in the past. All Melee has going for it right now is raw gameplay, which an HD remake would have, and more. The only reason anyone wouldn't want a Melee remake is if they are drowning in nostalgia.

 

[RazeriaN]

I own a Wiiu+ a Sm4sh copy. But I'd never play that game competitively. Melee is just too much fun for me, I always feel like I can do better, I always feel that I can improve in my play, I always feel like I'm a scrub and it angers me , so I play more to become better. Its a competitive mindset to a competitive game. I never hated/trashed sm4sh, Its just not for me. Please stop telling me what or what not to play. We're not 13 years old.

 

[TheTwistedHero]

What MvC game are we talking about?

Both MvC2 and 3 have this issue, 2 to a greater extent