The state of smash(boards)

[Lord Falco]

What happened to **** talk on this website? The Melee scene is growing so much, and it's awesome, but I just feel smash is lacking a lot of the hype that it used to have. I'm all for becoming more professional, but to be frank. I'm getting ****ing bored. Every tournament is the same. It's one of the big 5 present and them dominating. It's a joke. I feel like everyone is so god damn content because we made it to evo/mlg, but to be honest, it's pretty much only good for the big 5. They are the ones making money. They are the ones getting sponsored by big name teams. (With a few exceptions). They are the ones benefitting. And it's our fault. The melee scene is growing but the players aren't. Nobody else is good enough to win. Nobody else is good enough to get sponsored. Nobody else is benefitting. The only person outside of the big 5 I think will make waves this summer is Leffen. For some reason he's the only one really improving. I honestly believe it's because of how much **** he talked on this website, and how much **** he got. He never said he was the best but he said he will be and people laughed at him. And now this year alone he has beaten hungrybox and armada. But now this website is so god damn boring there isn't any reason to come here. All the noobs are going to the subreddit, and it's just the biggest ****ing circle jerk. And all the good players don't need to come here anymore. THERE IS NO **** TALK! And it's killing the hype. I want leffen and east coast scar, and regional rivalry, and mike swagger, and mango vs hungrybox. NOBODY IS PUSHING EACH OTHER TO GET BETTER! We are so ****ing content. We think we can't beat the big 5. We think evo and mlg and CEO and big 5 sponsorships are enough, and they aren't. Jesus Christ people.
This thread will probably get deleted. But maybe it won't. And maybe some new players will see, and maybe this will motivate them, make them realize that whatever people have been doing in the past to get better... Isn't ****ing working. Melee has been out for over a decade and yet it's still so undeveloped. We know a lot about frame data and hit boxes but maybe that's not enough, maybe we've spent all this time playing a game with a meta was developed by 14 year olds that nobody knows how to actually play it.
Unplug your controller dog.

 

[Bones0]

You're bad. $100 MM me.

 

[Lord Falco]

You're bad. $100 MM me.

Alright let's ****ing do it. $100

 

[Massive]

OMG NOBODY IS IMPROVING, I CAN SEE EVERYONE PLAYING EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD AND ONLY LEFFEN IS GETTING BETTER.

THIS GAME IS DEAD GUYS.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Not to be a negative nancy, but the vast majority of the scene is playing a game that's more than a decade old, or a mod that pretends it's a decade old game.

Speaks for itself. Hype'll come back when people regain that sense of adventure and discovery for Smash 4.

 

[Lord Falco]

OMG NOBODY IS IMPROVING, I CAN SEE EVERYONE PLAYING EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD AND ONLY LEFFEN IS GETTING BETTER.

THIS GAME IS DEAD GUYS.

LOL. You are so dumb. Why is it that no one else is beating them? Why aren't you? This is my point. You think you are getting better, and maybe you are but relatively, everyone but like the top ten is getting worse and it's ****ing boring to watch.

Also smash 4 is gonna suck

 

[-ACE-]

lack of **** talk?

*clears throat*

**** you you ****in sorry *** piece of ****. ****ing LORD FALCO? lmfao! The only thing you're lord of is a failed troll account. Leffen is the only one improving? **** YOU.

#haxnation

 

[Lord Falco]

IF EVERYONE IS IMPROVING WHY IS NOONE BEATING THE BIG 5!!?? YOU GUYS ARE SO DUMB! HAX ****ING SUCKS! HE GOT WRECKED BY MANGO THIS WEEKEND, AND HAS BEEN GETTING WRECKED BY MANGO FOR THE LAST LIKE 7 YEARS! WHEN IS HE GONNA ****ING WIN

 

[-ACE-]

last time your boy leffen played mango, didn't get get 4 stocked?

if you think hax isn't improving you're a ****ing fruitcake. He's showing us stuff that is, in a way, the best fox play the world has ever seen. Mango's evo fox takes that title (shoutouts to PC) but hax is on a path right now that can only lead up...

But yeah, you're obviously right.... until people start talking **** more the Top 5 are safer than grabbing a shield.

 

[Lord Falco]

last time your boy leffen played mango, didn't get get 4 stocked?

if you think hax isn't improving you're a ****ing fruitcake. He's showing us stuff that is, in a way, the best fox play the world has ever seen. Mango's evo fox takes that title (shoutouts to PC) but hax is on a path right now that can only lead up...

But yeah, you're obviously right.... until people start talking **** more the Top 5 are safer than grabbing a shield.

lol leffen isn't my boy, i think hes a great player, and a garbage person. Its not about **** talk its about being content.

 

[-ACE-]

melee is actually on the rise currently, somehow... i can't blame people for being content.

I do my part to help the scene, but what happens, happens.

 

[phokdapolees]

Why is no one beating the best 5 melee players in the world? Hmm, maybe it's because they're the best players in the world

Y'know, just sayin'

 

[Lord Falco]

melee is actually on the rise currently, somehow... i can't blame people for being content.

I do my part to help the scene, but what happens, happens.

This is exactly what i said in my OP. Melee IS on the rise but the benefits of this are way more significant for the big 5 than anyone else. Which is why I think its dumb if people are being content.

 

[-ACE-]

You say that as if it's easy to get that good. Where's your incentive?? You know how much money the players make, and I was even nice enough to talk **** to you. Go win MLG! lmao

 

[EPsilon933]

Things like "Get yo' ass whopped!" and "My ****ing **** hurts!" Aren't professional. Professionalism might be better than underground hype

This game has a big skill gap, which is a good thing. It's a good thing that the 5 gods (if ARmada's still considered 1 of them) are untouchable

MLG and EVO are the highest possible points for a competitive fighting game. What could be better?

Are you forgetting players like Curse Chillindude, Team Liquid Ken, and Team Liquid KDJ

Facebook took over Smashboards

A 12 year old game is still undeveloped? Tell us what more there is that we can achieve

Have clues about things before posting them, dog

 

[Lord Falco]

Things like "Get yo' *** whopped!" and "My ****ing **** hurts!" Aren't professional. Professionalism might be better than underground hype

This game has a big skill gap, which is a good thing. It's a good thing that the 5 gods (if ARmada's still considered 1 of them) are untouchable

MLG and EVO are the highest possible points for a competitive fighting game. What could be better?

Are you forgetting players like Curse Chillindude, Team Liquid Ken, and Team Liquid KDJ

Facebook took over Smashboards

A 12 year old game is still undeveloped? Tell us what more there is that we can achieve

Have clues about things before posting them, dog

It's most definitely a good thing that there are gods of melee. It's not a good thing that there are only 5 of them. It's also not a good thing that people think they are untouchable.

Edit: it's not a good that you think there should only be 5 of them. ***

 

[-ACE-]

they are not untouchable. hax, leffen, wobbles, and several others have demonstrated that. You think people are making a CONSCIOUS choice to not beat players like mango?? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL historically there has been a skill gap between the top 5 and the 6th-20th players, but not as much right now. People are trying, you just don't see it.

 

[Lord Falco]

they are not untouchable. hax, leffen, wobbles, and several others have demonstrated that. You think people are making a CONSCIOUS choice to not beat players like mango?? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL historically there has been a skill gap between the top 5 and the 6th-20th players, but not as much right now. People are trying, you just don't see it.

I'll give them credit when I see results.

 

[-ACE-]

I'll see if I can remember the link.... www.youtube.com I think.

You said untouchable. They've all taken sets off members of the top 5.

 

[Lord Falco]

I'll see if I can remember the link.... www.youtube.com I think.

You said untouchable. They've all taken sets off members of the top 5.

I actually didn't say they are untouchable. I think they are very beatable, sets have been taken off them. But that's what's disappointing. It's a set here and there. Not winning nationals. You shouldn't be content with just sets

 

[-ACE-]

Whatever dude. Just be glad you didn't start doing this stupid **** in 2004.

"omg everyone is so content with Ken winning"

"Chillin is content with taking a set off Ken I just know it"

"wow 4 years of domination.... people should **** talk Ken more"

I'm afraid it's back to the drawing board for you bruh. There's more than 1 reason why the top 5 are the top 5.... if you don't like it... practice and help others in your local scene. Or you could keep doing what you're doing... it just won't do a damn thing.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

I guess I'm going to have to inspire another $1,000 MM... Let me think of a list to write.

 

[Lord Falco]

Whatever dude. Just be glad you didn't start doing this stupid **** in 2004.

"omg everyone is so content with Ken winning"

"Chillin is content with taking a set off Ken I just know it"

"wow 4 years of domination.... people should **** talk Ken more"

I'm afraid it's back to the drawing board for you bruh. There's more than 1 reason why the top 5 are the top 5.... if you don't like it... practice and help others in your local scene. Or you could keep doing what you're doing... it just won't do a damn thing.

I understand the point you are making. Players naturally become better than other players, thats how these things works. I just feel like a lot of people are at the point where when one of them just destroys another player, its like "oh well its mango" Instead of really looking at what mango did in that game to win. Thats just a john.
It could be that a lot of people play this game because they love it, not because they want to best. If thats the case, well, I'm disappointed. You can love the game and want to be the best. This game is going towards esports, but its not gonna last long when only like 50 people are really trying to become the best.

 

[rawrimamonster]

Because the top players figured out a way to approach this game, eachother, and lower players in a way that lets them dominate the game. It's beyond just memorizing matchups, it's a way of playing thats a individual thing specific to them, and how they figure things out. M2K studied the game and knows it inside and out, Dr.pp studies people and can break them down as he plays, Mango has a natural gift for manipulating situations, hungrybox has the patience of a god. Everyone needs to find their own super saiyan evolution that lets them unplateau and be able to compete on that level. I THINK I see what you're saying, that a certain amount of hunger is gone from the community, maybe that's true...but there will always be that rising star that comes up and shocks people. There's many people in the community I see playing and they're just below that level but they could just push, and find that thing, that spark that puts them over the top.

Course I could just be stupid and not know what I'm talking about because I'm that random noob that no one knows.

 

[Lord Falco]

Because the top players figured out a way to approach this game, eachother, and lower players in a way that lets them dominate the game. It's beyond just memorizing matchups, it's a way of playing thats a individual thing specific to them, and how they figure things out. M2K studied the game and knows it inside and out, Dr.pp studies people and can break them down as he plays, Mango has a natural gift for manipulating situations, hungrybox has the patience of a god. Everyone needs to find their own super saiyan evolution that lets them unplateau and be able to compete on that level. I THINK I see what you're saying, that a certain amount of hunger is gone from the community, maybe that's true...but there will always be that rising star that comes up and shocks people. There's many people in the community I see playing and they're just below that level but they could just push, and find that thing, that spark that puts them over the top.

Course I could just be stupid and not know what I'm talking about because I'm that random noob that no one knows.

Fair enough, tbh I think hax could be that person. Above I said he sucks, but I was kinda kidding. He just needs to stop playing like a falcon, and use the ****ing gun. He's obviously really talented he's just not using a couple of fox's best tools.

 

[rawrimamonster]

Fair enough, tbh I think hax could be that person. Above I said he sucks, but I was kinda kidding. He just needs to stop playing like a falcon, and use the ****ing gun. He's obviously really talented he's just not using a couple of fox's best tools.

I actually said that quite a few times a while ago, that all of hax's experience comes from playing Falcon. So he's not playing smash as Fox, he's playing as a smart Falcon player playing as Fox. Thankfully he's active enough that he'll get the experience to change and become a true Fox main, but as of stuff I have been seeing from his Fox, I think what I said above is true. Idk maybe I'm overanalyzing.

 

[Massive]

It is common for someone at the top of everything to get complacent and stop trying, look at Armada's retirement. He could not be beaten (barring an expensive plane ticket) and lost hist drive to improve and (sort of) retired.
However, I think the current title of best in the US is hotly contested and shifts hands so much, especially between DrPP, M2K, Mango, and Hbox, that they all keep trying to innovate on to grab that top spot.

 

[-ACE-]

You guys are crazy. Hax is SHOWING us some of fox's best tools... you kidding me? Who else can TAS ledgedash + dash + nuetral air approach frame perfect 4/5 times in tournament vs the highest level of competition possible? And that exact maneuver is something NO OTHER FOX does. And he catches his opponents off guard so often it's ****ing ridiculous. Calling him a smart falcon player playing fox is just comical. He is an insanely gifted melee player that loved playing falcon, and is one of the few people that can switch to a much different character and play that character at an extremely high level. There is no "how fox should be played" guideline. Fox is the character you get to express yourself with. Options are through the roof. Hax is on that 20XX ****.... I hope Abate is too... year of luigi lol

 

[rawrimamonster]

You guys are crazy. Hax is SHOWING us some of fox's best tools... you kidding me? Who else can TAS ledgedash + dash + nuetral air approach frame perfect 4/5 times in tournament vs the highest level of competition possible? And that exact maneuver is something NO OTHER FOX does. And he catches his opponents off guard so often it's ****ing ridiculous. Calling him a smart falcon player playing fox is just comical. He is an insanely gifted melee player that loved playing falcon, and is one of the few people that can switch to a much different character and play that character at an extremely high level. There is no "how fox should be played" guideline. Fox is the character you get to express yourself with. Options are through the roof. Hax is on that 20XX ****.... I hope Abate is too... year of luigi lol

Tools that dont win are wasteful. If I'm wrong please prove me as such, I'm far from afraid to admit I'm wrong. Though, being real, last I was paying attention to him he still wasn't breaking his curse.

 

[-ACE-]

Are you really saying that he didn't win, so his methods are wrong? Do you not think there is room for error in the type of playstyle he's pioneering? one tech flub and he's dead. come on dude.

 

[rawrimamonster]

Are you really saying that he didn't win, so his methods are wrong? Do you not think there is room for error in the type of playstyle he's pioneering? one tech flub and he's dead. come on dude.

I'm saying prove me wrong. You already know what the threads about.

 

[-ACE-]

LOL. I can't help that you can't watch the match and see what I see.

You're basically saying that when Armada loses to Mango he's going about Peach wrong. stfu.

 

[Lord Falco]

You guys are crazy. Hax is SHOWING us some of fox's best tools... you kidding me? Who else can TAS ledgedash + dash + nuetral air approach frame perfect 4/5 times in tournament vs the highest level of competition possible? And that exact maneuver is something NO OTHER FOX does. And he catches his opponents off guard so often it's ****ing ridiculous. Calling him a smart falcon player playing fox is just comical. He is an insanely gifted melee player that loved playing falcon, and is one of the few people that can switch to a much different character and play that character at an extremely high level. There is no "how fox should be played" guideline. Fox is the character you get to express yourself with. Options are through the roof. Hax is on that 20XX ****.... I hope Abate is too... year of luigi lol

Idk, to me hax is super weird. Like if you watch him he almost never approaches. This is something that i think carried over from him playing falcon (http://smashboards.com/threads/dont-approach-melees-flaw-dissected.312501/). Not approaching with fox is AMAZING. He has sooo many good defensive tools, CC shine, upsmash, incredible dashdance speed and range, among other things. But if you don't make your opponent uncomfortable, and force them to approach with lasers you negate all of those options. Its like playing Ryu and not using fireballs. lol

 

[-ACE-]

I'm fully aware of Hax's age old thread. lol... that has a lot to do with falcon. Whatever, hax didn't pressure mango at all, you know fox's best tools and he doesn't. Hopefully he'll come read this thread and be enlightened... even when drunk I should never be bored enough to stoop as low as melee discussion, where 97% (legitimate statistic) of the lurkers don't know half of what goes on in a high level match.

peace

 

[Lord Falco]

I'm fully aware of Hax's age old thread. lol... that has a lot to do with falcon. Whatever, hax didn't pressure mango at all, you know fox's best tools and he doesn't. Hopefully he'll come read this thread and be enlightened... even when drunk I should never be bored enough to stoop as low as melee discussion, where 97% (legitimate statistic) of the lurkers don't know half of what goes on in a high level match.

peace

This is definitely a good post.

 

[Bones0]

Alright let's ****ing do it. $100

Where do you live?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

What happened to **** talk on this website? The Melee scene is growing so much, and it's awesome, but I just feel smash is lacking a lot of the hype that it used to have. I'm all for becoming more professional, but to be frank. I'm getting ****ing bored. Every tournament is the same. It's one of the big 5 present and them dominating. It's a joke. I feel like everyone is so god damn content because we made it to evo/mlg, but to be honest, it's pretty much only good for the big 5. They are the ones making money. They are the ones getting sponsored by big name teams. (With a few exceptions). They are the ones benefitting. And it's our fault. The melee scene is growing but the players aren't. Nobody else is good enough to win. Nobody else is good enough to get sponsored. Nobody else is benefitting. The only person outside of the big 5 I think will make waves this summer is Leffen. For some reason he's the only one really improving. I honestly believe it's because of how much **** he talked on this website, and how much **** he got. He never said he was the best but he said he will be and people laughed at him. And now this year alone he has beaten hungrybox and armada. But now this website is so god damn boring there isn't any reason to come here. All the noobs are going to the subreddit, and it's just the biggest ****ing circle jerk. And all the good players don't need to come here anymore. THERE IS NO **** TALK! And it's killing the hype. I want leffen and east coast scar, and regional rivalry, and mike swagger, and mango vs hungrybox. NOBODY IS PUSHING EACH OTHER TO GET BETTER! We are so ****ing content. We think we can't beat the big 5. We think evo and mlg and CEO and big 5 sponsorships are enough, and they aren't. Jesus Christ people.
This thread will probably get deleted. But maybe it won't. And maybe some new players will see, and maybe this will motivate them, make them realize that whatever people have been doing in the past to get better... Isn't ****ing working. Melee has been out for over a decade and yet it's still so undeveloped. We know a lot about frame data and hit boxes but maybe that's not enough, maybe we've spent all this time playing a game with a meta was developed by 14 year olds that nobody knows how to actually play it.
Unplug your controller dog.

I am not of the opinion that hyping up the game is the best way to get people invested in improving. If anything I think it might have the opposite effect. At the very least, how people talk about the game and stuff probably gets you initially excited about getting involved and it makes one hell of a thing to talk about. But, after that I would think that what gets hyped are ways of playing the game that are not exactly the best ways of improving. Generally, I would guess that anything that is risky will be considered for being hype topics. Not always mind you, however, it seems to be that way.

As an analogy, what will people prefer to see in Falcon dittos on FD? Probably something akin to covering tech chases with raptor boost, knee, or stomp and in many instances guessing. While regrab tech chasing from Uthrow is stupidly guaranteed its not what people are going to get hyped over. As far as I know getting better means making fewer mistakes and just preventing your opponent from ever getting those chances to play against you. So, hyping the game up to me means a person is trying to play in a super entertaining style which means unnecessary risk and guess work. Which probably grants you some moderate rewards in the short term for winning matches, but probably is not the path to take for long term improvement.

Plus, there is the fact that probably some really good players might just be incredibly limited by the character they choose to play. I am pretty convinced that Captain Falcon is not national viable character to play. At least, there is someone who is usually making say top 8 with him, but not always top 2 in nationals. The character to play are Jiggs, Peach, Marth, Sheik, Fox, and Falco.

 

[SAUS]

This is exactly what i said in my OP. Melee IS on the rise but the benefits of this are way more significant for the big 5 than anyone else. Which is why I think its dumb if people are being content.

Even if the big 5 are the only ones getting more money in their pockets and more fame, everyone in the melee community is finding new people to play, more local tournaments to play in, and more security in the longevity of melee. You say that "people are content". How do you know they are? Maybe the commentators or some other players that have kind of given up are where you are getting this from, but I am pretty damn sure there are players who are trying their damn hardest to break into the top level of play. Besides, how is trash talking a display of discontent as opposed to practicing against anyone you can play against or studying videos of top level play or any of that? You don't need to trash talk to be discontent.

 

[tauKhan]

I actually didn't say they are untouchable. I think they are very beatable, sets have been taken off them. But that's what's disappointing. It's a set here and there. Not winning nationals. You shouldn't be content with just sets

Leffen won Beast4, a national tournament that Armada attended to. Just saying.

 

[skwaag5233]

Melee is a sport, not a high school drama.