The SBR official stance on Metaknight.

[Jack Kieser]

@Fatmanonice: Why does everyone keep saying I'm accusing anyone of corruption? Did I say "I want to know how many people main MK so I can prove that there is Meta-bias"? No, I just said I was curious as to why I wasn't allowed to know that information.

@Spadefox: I did ask. And... I did ask. All I got were responses saying I should be quiet, that "...nevermind", and that I wasn't allowed to know. So, I asked plenty... just no one is telling me anything. And things are plenty hostile now; maybe a little info would dispel that hostility, hmm? I think DanGR had it right.

 

[Dastrn]

Jack,
I'm an MK main in the SBR. I voted pro-ban.

Conspiracy debunked.

 

[JayBee]

Jack,
We're not any kind of official authority. Stop looking for a conspiracy, because we would have to have some sort of power for there to be any coverup or something stupid.

All the SBR is is a super secret video game friend club. It happens to have smart smashers and TOs in it. We happen to enjoy staging debates for the benefit of the community.

The problem is that you think that we are official and that we owe you something, as if you elected us or pay our bills. You didn't. You can start your own SBR if you want and write your own recommendations. We won't stop you.

We don't really need your trust. We're just doing our thing and trying to be as helpful as we feel like being. We don't owe anyone anything.

I dont wanna know the process at this point. and i hope that not everyone feels like you do. if that's the case, there is not need for the SBR to do these things like tier lists, if they won't even feel partially responsible for anything, which to me is how you are sounding in this post. yes, we dont pay you, we are not your boss. however, what I asked for isn't something over the top, it should be standard. unofficial or not, this is a basic thing you should be happy to do. especially if you want the community to listen, which they do, and whether you admit it, as a member of SBR, expect to a degree. If you didn't you wouldn't be on it. condensing the role of SBR to "super secret club" is elementary and too simplified considering its effect on smashboards.

I'm not even lookign for a conspiracy at this point. what i want is responcibility.

EDIT: recommending stuff doesn't remove all responcibilty or influence btw guys. the proof is there in the rules these TO reveal, which in many cases simply say "whatever the SBR says," honestly...

 

[Red Arremer]

@Spadefox: I did ask. And... I did ask. All I got were responses saying I should be quiet, that "...nevermind", and that I wasn't allowed to know. So, I asked plenty... just no one is telling me anything. And things are plenty hostile now; maybe a little info would dispel that hostility, hmm? I think DanGR had it right.

No.
You asked "OMG HOO R U GAIZ?!". If you want to know who Mew2King, Reflex, ChiboSempai or Xyro are, you can do a little research and find out in a matter of minutes.
If you want to know why certain members are in the SBR, ask them.

But asking me why SBRoomer X and Y are in the SBR, I can't tell you that since I either don't know, or I don't know if they'd like to have this information disclosed. They're people like you and me, after all. And I'm not going to run behind every SBRoomer and ask them for why they are in the SBR just because you asked me. If you want to know it, do it yourself, there's no reason why I - or any other SBRoomer, or even the SBR leadership - has to tell you why X and Y are in the SBR just because you asked.
Ask X or Y yourself, or do research.

 

[fezzmaster]

i know that im not a super member like you guy all are with your thousands of posts and all, but why dont we try a trail period were MK is band? or why not do seasons where he is banned like spring hes banned summer hes not? and why are you all talking about the SBR in the MK ban thread? isnt that way off topic?

ANYWAY i didnt mean to be rude but i was thinking about that ant i wanted to know what you all thought... thanks and please dont eat my head off.

 

[pizzapie7]

I think this is getting out of hand. I mean, the SBR has no control over us. If you think there is some conspiracy, or don't like the way they do things, boycott tournies that use their ruleset.

Just my .02, although I'm sure its already been said.

 

[Zankoku]

I dont wanna know the process at this point. and i hope that not everyone feels like you do. if that's the case, there is not need for the SBR to do these things like tier lists, if they won't even feel partially responsible for anything, which to me is how you are sounding in this post. yes, we dont pay you, we are not your boss. however, what I asked for isn't something over the top, it should be standard. unofficial or not, this is a basic thing you should be happy to do. especially if you want the community to listen, which they do, and whether you admit it, as a member of SBR, expect to a degree. If you didn't you wouldn't be on it. condensing the role of SBR to "super secret club" is elementary and too simplified considering its effect on smashboards.

I'm not even lookign for a conspiracy at this point. what i want is responcibility.

EDIT: recommending stuff doesn't remove all responcibilty or influence btw guys. the proof is there in the rules these TO reveal, which in many cases simply say "whatever the SBR says," honestly...

In all honesty, we only give recommendations because a large number of TOs inexplicably expect us to. I asked about this a while ago, why everyone waits for the SBR to come up with some "official" decision. It's apparently because

1. they get to defer responsibility when other people complain about rulings, and
2. they get to complain about the SBR when they dislike rulings.

Oh well.

 

[Fatmanonice]

@Fatmanonice: Why does everyone keep saying I'm accusing anyone of corruption? Did I say "I want to know how many people main MK so I can prove that there is Meta-bias"? No, I just said I was curious as to why I wasn't allowed to know that information.

It's not just the idea of there being a "Meta-bias", as you put it, it's an issue of everything that the SBR does on this site including things like how they even decide who gets in the SBR which is something I heavily called into question a few months ago (no, I wasn't trying to get it if that's what you're thinking; I was questioning 4-5 members who had been recently appointed), how the tier list gets decided, etc.

@ chu:

I get that but they still have authority here and that's what the issue is. It's kind of like "you can believe whatever you want but people will think you're a ****** if you don't believe blank, blank, and blanky." It's kind of like with me and how I try to convince people that online is a good stepping stone for new players to get into compeitive Smash, can sharpen certain skills offline, and is a healthy source of competition but because of the opinions of certain players (do I really have to say the main culprit at this point?), I might as well be farting in a hurricane. It may sound goofy but you shouldn't underestimate the power that some people have over people's opinions and how much weight a certain opinion can hold in the public eye because of this.*

*disclaimer: this is not about Metaknight, this is just about stuff in general.

 

['V']

I seriously don't know what maining MK in the SBR has to do with the votes that went on. There are MK mains that voted pro-ban and there and non MK mains that voted anti-ban.

 

[bobson]

I think this is getting out of hand. I mean, the SBR has no control over us. If you think there is some conspiracy, or don't like the way they do things, boycott tournies that use their ruleset.

This response is really starting to ride on my nerves.

Yeah, sure, if you have a problem the ruleset, why not just go to tournaments without it? I mean, only about 95% of tournaments use it, surely you can fly across the country to HOBO a couple times every year if you really have a problem. And you can even host your own tournament with the three people in your state who are willing to play non-standard! Geeze, guys, it's not like the SBR controls you or anything... you can always just play on wifi.

 

[swordgard]

Jack,
I'm an MK main in the SBR. I voted pro-ban.

Conspiracy debunked.

You only did it so that pro ban couldnt say it was conspiracy.


We have proof that they control everything. We have proof of corruption and bias. They are everywhere. They control each of your actions, each of your thoughts. You cannot know who they are. If you think you know, then you have been fooled. The color is but a cloak of deception. They will come for you and hunt you. But you, are not alone. Unite with the rebellion and fight the evil-doers known as the back room! Today, WE STAND UNITED!

/sarcasm

 

[MattDotZeb]

I remember a time when Marth seemed like an extremely average character, then this guy named sephirothKen came out of nowhere and beat MattDotZeb.

This is too good.

 

[pizzapie7]

This response is really starting to ride on my nerves.

Yeah, sure, if you have a problem the ruleset, why not just go to tournaments without it? I mean, only about 95% of tournaments use it, surely you can fly across the country to HOBO a couple times every year if you really have a problem. And you can even host your own tournament with the three people in your state who are willing to play non-standard! Geeze, guys, it's not like the SBR controls you or anything... you can always just play on wifi.

That's the point, you do have wifi as a last resort.
I don't know how many people host Pro-ban tournies, but with so many Pro-ban people, there should be some out there. I mean, they did win the poll, right?

 

[Fatmanonice]

This response is really starting to ride on my nerves.

Yeah, sure, if you have a problem the ruleset, why not just go to tournaments without it? I mean, only about 95% of tournaments use it, surely you can fly across the country to HOBO a couple times every year if you really have a problem. And you can even host your own tournament with the three people in your state who are willing to play non-standard! Geeze, guys, it's not like the SBR controls you or anything... you can always just play on wifi.

Uh, actually, despite popular belief, we do follow the SBR's rulesets for our tournaments when it comes to basic rules. I sometimes take artistic liberties but it's never been too far off from the SBR standards.

Regardless, you do bring up the point I brought up earlier. Yes, I'm fully aware of exceptions like Chu-Dat's tournaments but he's also been playing since the Melee days and, despite not being in the SBR, has a lot of authority.

@ swordgard:

Okay, you call my intelligence into question and then post something like that despite people saying that they don't believe the SBR is completely corrupted? Excuse me for not kow-towing to your superior intelligence.

 

[JayBee]

In all honesty, we only give recommendations because a large number of TOs inexplicably expect us to. I asked about this a while ago, why everyone waits for the SBR to come up with some "official" decision. It's apparently because

1. they get to defer responsibility when other people complain about rulings, and
2. they get to complain about the SBR when they dislike rulings.

Oh well.

that does suck. unfortunately it seems to go wit the territory. but hey, im not trying to ask about the recomandations. you dont have to tell me how you pick people. All i want, is a simple, easy to access place to find out who is in the SBR. that's all. I swear. even if you never told us teh characters they play it wont be hard to find out. but i've tried the search for who knows how long, and I still haven't found it. please. that is all i want man.

 

[Dastrn]

There are pro-ban tournies popping up all over right now. I'll be hosting a pro-ban series starting late this fall. I'll also host MK-allowed tournies.

What you guys need to realize is that TOs can do what they want, and always have. The MK vote is almost 50-50, both in the community at large and within the super secret smash friends club (SBR). That means there's plenty of room for both options. A lot of people feel like MK is a problem.

There are some of you who voted anti-ban that will still say "this character is TOO good right now. But let's not ban him. Let's find some other way to beat him, through rule changes (ledge grabs, IDC ban, etc to limit him) or stage choices (allowing stages he's bad on), or simply getting much better at characters like Diddy (huge rising community right now) or Snake who do well against him."

 

[Kewkky]

I love Dastrn's answers. The SBR IS pretty much like a "super secret cool guy videogame club" in SWF. How do you expect them to disclose their secret handshakes, secret greetings, and secret meeting locations? It's a SECRET club, there are RULES against disclosing such information to the PUBLIC.

I'm sure that if people made a social group that made a big enough impact on these forums, they'd get their own colored names as well as their own custom title. The government provides this information because the government is NOT secret, and is elected by the public the vast majority of the time. The SBR isn't like that, it's an invite-only social group that is made of people who have proven to know their characters well enough to be admitted to their secret club.

Don't expect a topic made of each SBR member with detailed information to come up anytime soon, because quite frankly, it's never gonna happen.

 

[Fatmanonice]

*rubs the bridge of his nose*

That's not the issue. People don't care about the stuff that doesn't effect them. They don't care if initiation into the SBR consists of humping a Pikachu stuffed animal for 30 minutes, while wearing nothing but a tiara and cape and yelling "I LOVE KEN AND ISAI" at the top of their lungs on a webcam. People want to know more about the creditionals of some of the members. For some people, it's very obvious. For others, it's not. People want to know how the tier list gets made. (Yes, voting, yes, I get that but major factors that influence at least some of the major SBR members would be nice to know.) As mentioned in this thread, there are a decent number of people that are suspicious of the SBR now than in the past. Basically, you have a group of people that has become more social and explains a lot of their rulings with "because we said so" and, to be expected, people are becoming less paitient with this. In a nutshell, we're kind of becoming a community that's starved for infomation.

 

[JayBee]

hmmm.... i guess you are right. then all we have to do is wait for someone to start a new "supersbr", watch as they get bashed by the SBR secret police, then dissappear into obscruity ala rodney king.

naw jk. i think im done with this tho. i'd still like a list of sbr members tho. i think its important, regarless how sbr members feel about that.

 

[Spelt]

-thinks this thread should be locked-
it's not serving any purpose.
except letting people say something someone else has said countless times before.
there are more productive things someone could be doing.

 

[Fatmanonice]

hmmm.... i guess you are right. then all we have to do is wait for someone to start a new "supersbr", watch as they get bashed by the SBR secret police, then dissappear into obscruity ala rodney king.

naw jk. i think im done with this tho. i'd still like a list of sbr members tho. i think its important, regarless how sbr members feel about that.

Agreed. A thread where all the SBR members said a little about themselves including how they have "helped the cause of Smash" would be nice. Truth be told, the SBR is less secret than it was in the past but I still look at some of the members and think "who the heck are you and why are you one of the people who is deciding my tier list?"

 

[Red Arremer]

-thinks this thread should be locked-
it's not serving any purpose.
except letting people say something someone else has said countless times before.
there are more productive things someone could be doing.

Like having a pizza?

 

[Hylian]

Yes, I'm fully aware of exceptions like Chu-Dat's tournaments but he's also been playing since the Melee days and, despite not being in the SBR, has a lot of authority.

Um..ChuDat is in the SBR lol.

And I would say more tournaments are non-SBR certified then SBR certified. Many TO's know what they are doing and just use our recommended rules as a guideline. People are blowing this out of proportion. Even if they do decide to use our rules, it's not like it's a bad thing it just usually means they agree with us.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Like having a peniz?

come on dude...

we dont need to hear about all that.

keep it to yourself son.





LOL

 

[Chuee]

Agreed. A thread where all the SBR members said a little about themselves including how they have "helped the cause of Smash" would be nice.

Is there any reason why the SBR should create a topic having 100+ plus people telling us unnecessary information about themselves?

Truth be told, the SBR is less secret than it was in the past but I still look at some of the members and think "who the heck are you and why are you one of the people who is deciding my tier list?"

because they know more about the game than you.
Also it's the SBR's tier list, not yours.................

 

[Blatt Blvd]

told you guys lol

now you guys have to get over there being a really good character in a (wannabe)fighting game

also, thank god only half of the SBRG is ******** and not a 1/3, like a little over half the community.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Is there any reason why the SBR should create a topic having 100+ plus people telling us unnecessary information about themselves?


because they know more about the game than you.
Also it's the SBR's tier list, not yours.................

1. Call me crazy but to actually know the people who make the major decisions in the Smash community and quite accusations of corruption/bias that some people might have.

2. Who says they know more about Smash than me? The SBR? That's great because I don't really know them as it is so, in turn, it would make complete sense to completely take their word for it, right? *burp*

3. As a part of the Smash community, it is my tier list. Like I said earlier in different terms, I could go off and create a tier and say that Ike is the best character in the game but that wouldn't stop people from thinking that my mother is both my mother and my aunt.

Ugh... I've got to go. The library's closing and I've got to get back to my awesome air conditioning-less apartment. I've said what I wanted to say so I think this thread can move on from here.

@ Hylian:

I thought you said he wasn't? Who am I thinking of then...

 

[swordgard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILj3HlaoOCg


Replace bank by SBR, and you get the truth.

 

[Red Arremer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILj3HlaoOCg


Replace bank by SBR, and you get the truth.

Very nice. XD

 

[Chuee]

3. As a part of the Smash community, it is my tier list. Like I said earlier in different terms, I could go off and create a tier and say that Ike is the best character in the game but that wouldn't stop people from thinking that my mother is both my mother and my aunt.

No, it's called the SBRB tier list V3.0
therefor it's the SBR's tier list.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

The announcement we posted even says we recommend tournament organizers to try different rules as they see fit, because in order to develop the best ruleset, we do need to try differerent things, in hopes that a year or two from now, the ruleset will get better and better. The more things we can draw from (ie, tournies with new ideas/MK banned) the stronger grounded future rulesets will be.

 

[Kewkky]

... So they're religiously sharing important topics with the rest of the community, and the community believes it's a responsibility. They're doing it out of free will to please the rest of the community who's not in their "super secret smash friends club", that's more than any other secret club does in their lifetime. Accept it, and move on. Would you be happier if there was no SBR, no group of smashers to recommend rules and discuss important topics? Or would you rather have the community as a whole, ignorant fools and smart veterans alike, holding the same ground? You choose.

Many people even say Brawl isn't a fighting game, much less competitive, so why the need for tiers? SBR says the game can be competitive, non-SBRs say it can't be. Who would you believe and why?

Just play and you should be happy.

PS: I'm aiming this at everyone who's complaining about the SBR's existence, no one person in specific.

 

[zhao_guang]

My region isn't dominated by MKs, we've only had 1 MK in the top 3 in the last 4 tournaments LMAO.

Even if he was banned by the SBR, my region wouldn't ban him.

They told me they'd ban Luigi before they ban MK >.<

 

[DUCKAtl]

yeah, does anyone have a post to the items discussion back from 04

 

[Jack Kieser]

Would you be happier if there was no SBR, no group of smashers to recommend rules and discuss important topics? Or would you rather have the community as a whole, ignorant fools and smart veterans alike, holding the same ground? You choose.

Many people even say Brawl isn't a fighting game, much less competitive, so why the need for tiers? SBR says the game can be competitive, non-SBRs say it can't be. Who would you believe and why?

Why are those the only options? Why not have a middle ground? The SBR, I think, is a necessary body, but I don't see why they can't involve the active members of the community more. Imagine if the SBR themselves hosted 4 major tournaments every year, one in each quarter of the nation, and did all of their public polling at those events? Then, you'd get people meeting some of the SBR members (not so shadowy now, so more trust) AND you'd get the SBR able to take the pulse of ONLY the active members of the community (the people willing to go to a major tournament). This is only an "off-the-top-of-my-head" suggestion, too. There are ways to find middle ground; it doesn't have to be "SBR rules with an iron fist" or "it's the people's republic until the end".

And, last time I checked, there are PLENTY of people not in the SBR who think Smash/Brawl is competitive. I'm not in there, and I think it's totally competitive.

@FMOI --v : Hobbes FTW.

 

[Fatmanonice]

... So they're religiously sharing important topics with the rest of the community, and the community believes it's a responsibility. They're doing it out of free will to please the rest of the community who's not in their "super secret smash friends club", that's more than any other secret club does in their lifetime. Accept it, and move on. Would you be happier if there was no SBR, no group of smashers to recommend rules and discuss important topics? Or would you rather have the community as a whole, ignorant fools and smart veterans alike, holding the same ground? You choose.

Many people even say Brawl isn't a fighting game, much less competitive, so why the need for tiers? SBR says the game can be competitive, non-SBRs say it can't be. Who would you believe and why?

Just play and you should be happy.

PS: I'm aiming this at everyone who's complaining about the SBR's existence, no one person in specific.

*uses office computer at apartment complex*

I don't think you get what I'm saying... I don't think I can really break down what I said anymore. If anything, I think you're heavily underplaying the SBR's authority in the Smash community. It's almost like you're saying the SBR does what it does for fun and people just listen to them because they are sheep... I know that not everyone can be in the Super Happy Fun Time Smash Bros Club but please, please, PLEASE don't assume that people just willfully listen to the SBR because, like in a similar fashion to what Thomas Hobbes once said, we need authority to tell us what to do/think about certain things because we're so incompetent without it.

 

[Chuee]

Imagine if the SBR themselves hosted 4 major tournaments every year, one in each quarter of the nation, and did all of their public polling at those events?

Not everyone in the SBR is in the US ya know.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Not everyone in the SBR is in the US ya know.

Really? Holy crap. I wasn't aware. [/sarcasm]

No, but I'm willing to bet that the US of A has the largest, most active player base.

 

[zhao_guang]

Who's the Luigi and/or Mario representative in the SBR? Because I don't think Boss is there, so I ponder

 

[Kewkky]

*uses office computer at apartment complex*

I don't think you get what I'm saying... I don't think I can really break down what I said anymore. If anything, I think you're heavily underplaying the SBR's authority in the Smash community. It's almost like you're saying the SBR does what it does for fun and people just listen to them because they are sheep... I know that not everyone can be in the Super Happy Fun Time Smash Bros Club but please, please, PLEASE don't assume that people just willfully listen to the SBR because, like in a similar fashion to what Thomas Hobbes once said, we need authority to tell us what to do/think about certain things because we're so incompetent without it.

Well, I'm giving out my opinion on how I feel the whole "The SBR's alienating themselves from the community!" gimmick is proceeding. I, as a TO that will finally continue making tourneys in my area, KNOW that TO's would much rather take the safe option of "using the SBR Approved Rule-Set" than risk the attendance of gamers to my events. The community has gotten so used to following those rules in their nearest tourneys, that trying newer, MUCH different things like MK Banned tourneys might mean their attendance will diminish for any given reason they might have. In SWF, half the community says that banning MK is the way to go. But the other half says "Don't ban MK", and if I run an MK-Banned tourney against the will of the players in my area, then my attendance will drop.

We're not blindly following the rules sometimes. We just have no other option if the community wants the rules to stay the same, else they won't show up and there won't be a tourney to come to. Another TO in PR asks for $15.00 total to play in his tourneys (obviously for the prizes), but part of the community feels it's a little TOO much, and he hasn't changed his mind. Last tourney that happened, he had 8 attendants and the top 3 ended up splitting to hurry up and end the tourney so they could go home.

Sometimes it's better to listen to your area's recommendations, and they players in the area tend to follow the rules of the "superiors" and "experts" because it's how they enjoy the game the most. Not because it's how the game should be played to "maximize diversity" or anything else of the sort that's been argued in past threads concerning the banning of MK.