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Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

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Since Pikachu (and Jigglypuff) were in the Smash first, other Pokémon need to be scaled to their proportions. Since Charizard is clearly too big in comparison to Pikachu, Charizard should not be playable. (Ridley detractor logic).
 

Gilius Thunderhead

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Since Pikachu (and Jigglypuff) were in the Smash first, other Pokémon need to be scaled to their proportions. Since Charizard is clearly too big in comparison to Pikachu, Charizard should not be playable. (Ridley detractor logic).
Look Entei, Ridley is constantly depicted(even in ssbb) as a GIANT space dragon. Other characters have been scaled to be made playable, but not to this extent. That's not to say it's impossible, but all the optimism and sarcasm in the world won't suddenly resolve Ridley's issue.
 

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Look Entei, Ridley is constantly depicted(even in ssbb) as a GIANT space dragon. Other characters have been scaled to be made playable, but not to this extent. That's not to say it's impossible, but all the optimism and sarcasm in the world won't suddenly resolve Ridley's issue.
Actually, if we're talking pure numbers here, Olimar has taken more resizing than Ridley would if he got in.
 
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What issue is there?
Ridley has inconsistencies with size and Sakurai has shown not to give a **** about every character being up to scale.
Not even Ridley in SSBB, where Ridley somehow shrinks from cutscene to boss fight and boss fight to Meta Ridley boss fight.

So honestly, what's so bad about Ridley being scaled as a character larger than Bowser without being Brawl boss fight size (which is still smaller than Giga Bowser)?
 

AnOkayDM

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This is true, I cannot deny. You do understand what I meant though, right?
Yes, but your point is dumb.

OIimar is miniscule. He could be crushed by any of the characters in the game. Yet no one gives a **** if he's suddenly the size of Mario. So what is the goddamn problem with cutting Ridley's size a bit to make him viable? Especially when he changes size in the same ****ing game?
 

MasterOfKnees

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Look Entei, Ridley is constantly depicted(even in ssbb) as a GIANT space dragon. Other characters have been scaled to be made playable, but not to this extent. That's not to say it's impossible, but all the optimism and sarcasm in the world won't suddenly resolve Ridley's issue.
All the pessimism in the world won't keep Ridley from being playable either. I simply don't see the problem, canon matters nothing in this situation, especially when developers like Retro Studios don't even care about his size themselves, changing him from his biggest size to his smallest size since the original Metroid in the very same game.

I mean, just look at this little thing I put together:



I'm well aware that there's some distance between Omega Ridley and Samus in that picture, but it doesn't take a genious to see that Samus can't fit in his mouth. If you look at other points in the cinematic, you can see that Ridley can probably fit Samus' arm cannon in his mouth at max.

This is in the very same game. So tell me, if not even the Metroid games give a **** about making Ridley's size consistent, why in the name of all living things should a spin-off game do so? I want an answer to this, or you won't be able to seriously argue any further. And yes, this is the second newest installment in the franchise, so it's not like it's outdated either.

Point is, Ridley is constantly being resized to fit into the situations he's being put into. In the Meta Ridley fight in MP3 he needs to be enormous in order to make it a very hectic tunnel fight, he needs to pretty much take up all the room in that tunnel to function properly. However, later in the game, as Omega Ridley, it's supposed to be more of an even battle on even ground, and thus he is scaled severely down in order to fit that scenario.

If Ridley is a character in Smash Bros, then he will get scaled down to possibly a smaller size than ever so that he can fit that scenario, thus it doesn't break any rules that have been set. He simply hasn't had a reason to be playable character small yet, but now he has a reason to, and I don't see what the fuzz is about. Spin-offs are here to break the rules, but in this case, there aren't even any rules to break.
 

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Yes, but your point is dumb.

OIimar is miniscule. He could be crushed by any of the characters in the game. Yet no one gives a **** if he's suddenly the size of Mario. So what is the goddamn problem with cutting Ridley's size a bit to make him viable? Especially when he changes size in the same ****ing game?

This is one of the ultimate strikes against the ridiculous double standard weaponized by the anti-Ridley group: NOBODY WOULD ACTUALLY CARE.

Smash gets away with too many inconsistencies as it is. Olimar. The pokemon in the roster. The pokemon summoned through pokeballs. Star Fox vehicle inconsistencies. Fire Emblem inconsistencies. Non-Ridley Metroid inconsistencies.

None of them have ever made the super majority enjoy the game less. You'll always have a small group of people disliking something about something for some reason, and it's wise not to pay them too much mind.


So somebody thinks Ridley would look weird or inconsistent or not canon enough or whatever. Fine. Just be honest about it: "I personally dislike the idea of Ridley playable and can't see him working..."

Don't come into a Playable Ridley support topic declaring that Ridley is unreasonable as a playable character. Especially don't do this coyly, knowing the history of this long drawn out debate. And DO NOT try and throw a fit when you REAP WHAT YOU SOW in terms of rebuttals from the pro-Ridley group in their own pro-Ridley topic!!


I mean GEEZ. I find it absolutely ridiculous that people think that a thread called THE RIDLEY FOR SSB4 THREAD is the place to voice out loud why Ridley should not or cannot be playable! It's just plain thoughtless. This applies to ANY pro-character thread as well. It's not a thread about Ridley in general. Yes some general Ridley discussion occurs, but all of the regulars are united not just by Ridley, but by the desire to want to play as him.

A bit of a digress, but it needed to be said, because the deplorable attitude I explained is why we keep going back to these arguments again and again.
 

AnOkayDM

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Then again, he did specify SPACE dragon, so like how many space dragons have you seen to know Ridley is larger than average???

We ask the hard questions in this thread.
I dunno. A Google image search of "space dragon" turns up mostly big results, far bigger than Ridley.
 

Gilius Thunderhead

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Yes, but your point is dumb.

OIimar is miniscule. He could be crushed by any of the characters in the game. Yet no one gives a **** if he's suddenly the size of Mario. So what is the goddamn problem with cutting Ridley's size a bit to make him viable? Especially when he changes size in the same ****ing game?
You really do get pissed at Ridley naysayers. Even though what I say is just an opinion, equal and opposite to yours, I'll give you my 2 cents even if you are just going to call me an idiot afterwards.
Ridley's changed sizes in the same games before sure, but he's always(the one exception being on NES) been a giant space dragon. That's what he is, and it's what makes him such a menacing villain. Metroid is one of the few series' Nintendo takes seriously, I know it's a spin-off, but reverting Ridley back to his NES size is just degrading. Down-scaling him isn't gonna make smash better it's just gonna make Ridley worse. You all might not care, but I'm one of those guys who likes consistancy even if it is a spin-off. Bowser changes all the time long before Smash came along so there's no point arguing there. Olimar I couldn't care less about, I never played Pikmin until after Brawl, atleast he's proportional to everything from his own game. I love ridley, but the idea of him getting tossed around by Pikachu, Kirby and the like just bothers me.

Edit: Still no ones answered my question about Other M Ridley. I was serious about that.
 

KingofPhantoms

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You really do get pissed at Ridley naysayers. Even though what I say is just an opinion, equal and opposite to yours, I'll give you my 2 cents even if you are just going to call me an idiot afterwards.
Ridley's changed sizes in the same games before sure, but he's always(the one exception being on NES) been a giant space dragon. That's what he is, and it's what makes him such a menacing villain. Metroid is one of the few series' Nintendo takes seriously, I know it's a spin-off, but reverting Ridley back to his NES size is just degrading. Down-scaling him isn't gonna make smash better it's just gonna make Ridley worse. You all might not care, but I'm one of those guys who likes consistancy even if it is a spin-off. Bowser changes all the time long before Smash came along so there's no point arguing there. Olimar I couldn't care less about, I never played Pikmin until after Brawl, atleast he's proportional to everything from his own game. I love ridley, but the idea of him getting tossed around by Pikachu, Kirby and the like just bothers me.
You would've likely saved yourself from at least some of these arguments if you just said you didn't like the sound of Pikachu, Kirby and others beating and tossing Ridley around in the first place, same goes for you preferring consistency. (regardless of the fact at how Ridley's size really hasn't been that consistant throughout the game)

And Ridley's size is not what makes him so mencing. Allow me to quote myself from earlier.


If they took Ridley's large size away, they wouldn't be taking away his most notable trait. Ridley is known for being an evil, fire breathing power house of a dragon from space, and being Samus' arch-enemy. Large size is not what Ridley is known for, it's what Kraid is known for.
 

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I would think that if someone like kraid got resized, it would be a big deal, since it's his sole characteristic that makes him kraid. ridley on the other hand doesn't need size to retain anything else about him. besides, he's not even that big!

I might only think that because the only metroid I've played is super metroid.

I swear, if it wasn't for brawl we wouldn't have nearly as much differing opinions on this and would probably have way more supporters.

just my opinions.
 

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You really do get pissed at Ridley naysayers. Even though what I say is just an opinion, equal and opposite to yours, I'll give you my 2 cents even if you are just going to call me an idiot afterwards.
Ridley's changed sizes in the same games before sure, but he's always(the one exception being on NES) been a giant space dragon. That's what he is, and it's what makes him such a menacing villain. Metroid is one of the few series' Nintendo takes seriously, I know it's a spin-off, but reverting Ridley back to his NES size is just degrading. Down-scaling him isn't gonna make smash better it's just gonna make Ridley worse. You all might not care, but I'm one of those guys who likes consistancy even if it is a spin-off. Bowser changes all the time long before Smash came along so there's no point arguing there. Olimar I couldn't care less about, I never played Pikmin until after Brawl, atleast he's proportional to everything from his own game. I love ridley, but the idea of him getting tossed around by Pikachu, Kirby and the like just bothers me.

Edit: Still no ones answered my question about Other M Ridley. I was serious about that.
Size was never the reason Ridley was intimidating, otherwise his size would be as consistent as Kraid's. He's intimidating for being a space dragon that has always brought the fight to the player and always has some clout to his appearances, not because he's large. Ridley has varied so many times according to what the designers want that it wouldn't be surprising nor degrading to have him be playable size, why should Smash be any different?

Also, Snake hails from a series that takes itself seriously (more seriously then even Metroid) and yet he gets smacked around by Pikachu. If he can be "degraded," then Ridley has no problem fitting in.
 

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You really do get pissed at Ridley naysayers. Even though what I say is just an opinion, equal and opposite to yours, I'll give you my 2 cents even if you are just going to call me an idiot afterwards.
Ridley's changed sizes in the same games before sure, but he's always(the one exception being on NES) been a giant space dragon. That's what he is, and it's what makes him such a menacing villain. Metroid is one of the few series' Nintendo takes seriously, I know it's a spin-off, but reverting Ridley back to his NES size is just degrading. Down-scaling him isn't gonna make smash better it's just gonna make Ridley worse. You all might not care, but I'm one of those guys who likes consistancy even if it is a spin-off. Bowser changes all the time long before Smash came along so there's no point arguing there. Olimar I couldn't care less about, I never played Pikmin until after Brawl, atleast he's proportional to everything from his own game. I love ridley, but the idea of him getting tossed around by Pikachu, Kirby and the like just bothers me.

Edit: Still no ones answered my question about Other M Ridley. I was serious about that.
The thing is that you yourself have a double standard in place when it comes to Ridley in comparison to Olimar, from what I've read.

The thing that makes Pikmin unique is the fact that you are viewing the world as someone only a few centimeters tall. What you'd normally consider mere bugs are absolute beasts in the world of Pikmin. Ordinary items that are simply junk to us are large pieces of treasure to Olimar. The size of Olimar and the Pikmin is the very thing that makes the entire game unique. It's more integral to his character than Ridley's size is.

Resizing Olimar is in fact more insulting to the concept of Pikmin than resizing Ridley is. And they did it.

I do understand that you may very well disagree, however. For some people, the size does seem very integral to his character. However, most of us here don't care what size he is if it means that we get to play as Ridley in Super Smash Bros.. It's really all subjective. The important thing, though, is that we know what point of view the Director of the game has about it. And that is that it is not an issue.

Honestly, it's less about if the too big thing is right and more about if Sakurai thinks it's right.
 

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You don't seem to be getting the main argument, Gil. "Size A is Size A, Size B is fine." Refuting exactly what you just said, Olimar has ALWAYS been a miniscule explorer in his canonical appearances. Same for Bowser ALWAYS being huge in his non-spin-off games.

Nintendo only takes Metroid seriously? What? When has Ganondorf ever not been taken serious? Or Snake? Or Mewtwo? You're being extremely narrow-minded. That and the "don't care/didn't even play Pikmin until after Brawl" is just digging your hole deeper. If Ridley was playable in Smash before, while Ganondorf/Bowser/Olimar/whoever wasn't/was in Ridley's shoes right now, I can almost guarantee your position would be flip-flopped.
 

KingofPhantoms

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That's why a playable Kraid will never work. Kraid is known for and was made to be a destructive colossus, Ridley has much more depth as a character, (I'm not saying personality is a factor to include characters in Smash Bros., I'm just making a point that Ridley is known for a lot more than being big) has appeared more times, shown off more powers and has done things that has made has made him the best and most memorable Metroid villain.
 

Gilius Thunderhead

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You would've likely saved yourself from at least some of these arguments if you just said you didn't like the sound of Pikachu, Kirby and others beating and tossing Ridley around in the first place, same goes for you preferring consistency. (regardless of the fact at how Ridley's size really hasn't been that consistant throughout the game)

And Ridley's size is not what makes him so mencing. Allow me to quote myself from earlier.
I already read what you wrote earlier and that was total BS. A human sized space dragon is not very menacing. There's a reason they made him 20' tall in Super Metroid. Not only would a 6' Ridley be degrading to Metroid as a series, but making a 6' foot dragon Samus' mortal enemy would make her look like even more of a ***** than Other M did. Metroid enemies in general are known for their large size, as their leader Ridley should lead by example.
 

AnOkayDM

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You really do get pissed at Ridley naysayers.
Nope, I get pissed at hearing the same unbelievably stupid arguments against his inclusion over and over.

Ridley's changed sizes in the same games before sure, but he's always(the one exception being on NES) been a giant space dragon.
Except that Omega Ridley isn't that much bigger than Samus, and neither is Meta Ridley in the first Prime, when you fight him on the ground?

That's what he is, and it's what makes him such a menacing villain.
Nope. He's menacing because of his relationship with Samus, his immense intelligence, and his insane ferocity. If he were the size of a tiger, he'd be just as menacing.

Metroid is one of the few series' Nintendo takes seriously, I know it's a spin-off, but reverting Ridley back to his NES size is just degrading.
How so?

Down-scaling him isn't gonna make smash better it's just gonna make Ridley worse.
How so?

You all might not care, but I'm one of those guys who likes consistancy even if it is a spin-off. Bowser changes all the time long before Smash came along so there's no point arguing there.
So you don't care that Bowser's size isn't consistent?

Hell. In recent games, he's consistently much bigger than Mario, even before he gets magically bigger for the final fight. And yet you don't give a damn if he's scaled down for Smash Bros., do you?

Olimar I couldn't care less about, I never played Pikmin until after Brawl, atleast he's proportional to everything from his own game.
First of all, no he's not. And second of all, I love how you contradict yourself immediately by saying you don't care about consistency here.

I love ridley, but the idea of him getting tossed around by Pikachu, Kirby and the like just bothers me.
And the fact that Ganondorf can get the crap kicked out of him by "Pikachu, Kirby, and the like" is very silly too, but you don't see anyone whining about it.

So basically your argument boils down to "this is my opinion." That's fine. But I still haven't heard a good, objective reason for keeping him out of the game. If you've got one, I'd love to hear your take.

Edit: Still no ones answered my question about Other M Ridley. I was serious about that.
Other M Ridley is better than no Ridley at all. But I find that design awful, so I'd rather have his Super design.

I already read what you wrote earlier and that was total BS. A human sized space dragon is not very menacing. There's a reason they made him 20' tall in Super Metroid. Not only would a 6' Ridley be degrading to Metroid as a series, but making a 6' foot dragon Samus' mortal enemy would make her look like even more of a ***** than Other M did. Metroid enemies in general are known for their large size, as their leader Ridley should lead by example.
Literally every boss you have to fight in, say, Super Metroid, is bigger than Ridley.

Every single one.

He's doing the opposite of leading by example.
 

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I already read what you wrote earlier and that was total BS. A human sized space dragon is not very menacing. There's a reason they made him 20' tall in Super Metroid. Not only would a 6' Ridley be degrading to Metroid as a series, but making a 6' foot dragon Samus' mortal enemy would make her look like even more of a ***** than Other M did. Metroid enemies in general are known for their large size, as their leader Ridley should lead by example.
I beg to differ, if a lion or wolf came towards you, you'd run, and they're smaller then a human. Ridley would be no different in that regard as size doesn't matter to him. As mentioned constantly here, it's what you do with the character that makes them intimidating. Metroid itself also will not be degraded if Ridley suddenly lost a few feet, especially since the series itself does it on basically a daily basis. So again, why should Smash be any different there?

Metroid enemies in general are known for their large size, as their leader Ridley should lead by example.
Bullcrap, Metroid has enemies that vary in size, from the miniscule bugs that swarm you to the human-sized space pirates to the large Kraid/Quadraxi. So Ridley is not restricted there either, especially considering the series itself doesn't care to keep Ridley himself consistent.
 

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You really do get pissed at Ridley naysayers. Even though what I say is just an opinion, equal and opposite to yours, I'll give you my 2 cents even if you are just going to call me an idiot afterwards.
Ridley's changed sizes in the same games before sure, but he's always(the one exception being on NES) been a giant space dragon. That's what he is, and it's what makes him such a menacing villain. Metroid is one of the few series' Nintendo takes seriously, I know it's a spin-off, but reverting Ridley back to his NES size is just degrading. Down-scaling him isn't gonna make smash better it's just gonna make Ridley worse. You all might not care, but I'm one of those guys who likes consistancy even if it is a spin-off. Bowser changes all the time long before Smash came along so there's no point arguing there. Olimar I couldn't care less about, I never played Pikmin until after Brawl, atleast he's proportional to everything from his own game. I love ridley, but the idea of him getting tossed around by Pikachu, Kirby and the like just bothers me.
If you think that Ridley is a menacing and good villain just because of his size, then sorry, that's not a big part of Ridley's character. He is Samus' archnemesis, the head of the Space Pirates, and on top of that he is incredibly intelligent. Ridley's size is far from an important part of his character, it's part of his character, but a much smaller part of his character in comparison to Olimar whos whole existance is based on being little. I also don't see the problem with Ridley being tossed around by Pikachu and Kirby, he was already an immobile boss in Brawl who wasn't exactly very faithful to his original boss battles and he could explode from having small turnips tossed at him anyways, and Ganondorf is already running around picking up bunny hoods and getting KO'd by Peach's exploding butt too. If anything, having him as a boss battle is an even bigger disgrace towards him if we go from your perspective, because he's still getting his butt handed to him by small thunderous rodents and little plant people, but he's simply not able to go in and cause havoc himself because he's put in the little boss cube. I don't see the problem in allowing him to be downscaled in order to make things that are fun. That's the keyword in Smash Bros, fun, and if we begin putting such a tight limit on it, then what's the point of the game?

It's okay that you have your opinion, but it doesn't make Ridley any less likely, it simply means that you'd probably be displeased with him appearing as a playable character. That's fine too, I certainly wasn't too happy about Sonic's announcement in Brawl, though he grew on me as time went on and know I actually enjoy his inclusion, especially because his inclusion represents the victory for many Smash fans. Sometimes it's not just looking from your own perspective, sometimes getting out of that narrow mindset is good. For example, I hate Toad as a character, but I still hope for him to make it into the game, not that I'd ever play as him, but because I know the Toad fanbase is dedicated and deserve it. Think about it for a second.
 

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I already read what you wrote earlier and that was total BS. A human sized space dragon is not very menacing. There's a reason they made him 20' tall in Super Metroid. Not only would a 6' Ridley be degrading to Metroid as a series, but making a 6' foot dragon Samus' mortal enemy would make her look like even more of a ***** than Other M did. Metroid enemies in general are known for their large size, as their leader Ridley should lead by example.



This is pretty menacing, don't you think?

It's smaller than we are and I can guarantee you that if this came running at us we'd be pissing our pants. Same with Ridley. If he was our size we'd be freaking out regardless..

Being menacing is rarely about size, it's what the thing can do to you.

We're not afraid of whales. And they're freaking huge!

On the flipside, people are scared of bees... They're incredibly small.


Being menacing is about what you can do or what you're willing to do. Not size.
 

KingofPhantoms

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I already read what you wrote earlier and that was total BS. A human sized space dragon is not very menacing. There's a reason they made him 20' tall in Super Metroid. Not only would a 6' Ridley be degrading to Metroid as a series, but making a 6' foot dragon Samus' mortal enemy would make her look like even more of a ***** than Other M did. Metroid enemies in general are known for their large size, as their leader Ridley should lead by example.
Did I say he had to be exactly human sized?

No.

This doesn't exactly look like a human sized dragon to me, and he still looks menecing.



See, this is the size that would work in Smash.

And the Xenomorphs from "Aliens" are just a bit taller than humans, so I guess that means they aren't intimidating either.

Leader or not, Ridley doesn't have to be very huge to be menecing. It's fine you have an opinion that Ridley would be less menecing if he was smaller in size, but it's not a fact.
 

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I already read what you wrote earlier and that was total BS. A human sized space dragon is not very menacing. There's a reason they made him 20' tall in Super Metroid. Not only would a 6' Ridley be degrading to Metroid as a series, but making a 6' foot dragon Samus' mortal enemy would make her look like even more of a ***** than Other M did. Metroid enemies in general are known for their large size, as their leader Ridley should lead by example.
Actually, Ridley was probably just made big in Super Metroid because otherwise he'd be too hard of a target to hit in the game. Furthermore, Ridley is already one of the smaller bosses in Metroid, he has never been an example of how big the bosses in Metroid are and has never been intended so.
 

Gilius Thunderhead

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The thing is that you yourself have a double standard in place when it comes to Ridley in comparison to Olimar, from what I've read.

The thing that makes Pikmin unique is the fact that you are viewing the world as someone only a few centimeters tall. What you'd normally consider mere bugs are absolute beasts in the world of Pikmin. Ordinary items that are simply junk to us are large pieces of treasure to Olimar. The size of Olimar and the Pikmin is the very thing that makes the entire game unique. It's more integral to his character than Ridley's size is.

Resizing Olimar is in fact more insulting to the concept of Pikmin than resizing Ridley is. And they did it.
All this is still true about Pikmin in Smash. Look at Olimars stage. Everything that was huge scary and dangerous in Pikmin is still the same. By making everything in Pikmin proportional they've kept the same aw. You guys want them to take Ridley and make him Samus sized even though it's been explicitly clear for years that he's a giant compared to her. I've never said anyone was too small for smash, Chibi Robo's like a foot tall and I wouldn't be opposed to him getting in. Ridley doesn't belong in ssb4's roster.

Snake's not a giant, fire-breathing, parent killing, monster from an alien world now is he? Also....
*So I couldn't find it online, but remember in MGS when you can get those baby wolf pups to pee on you?
 

IsmaR

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[collapse=About Snake and firebreathing/dead parents]Snake killed his own father with a makeshift flamethrower made from an aerosol can and a lighter.[/collapse]

Also Fourside from Melee kinda makes you big enough to ride a UFO as if it was a sailboat.
 

Gilius Thunderhead

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Ok, ok so not that I wouldn't love to keep arguing with all of you, even if it is a bit overwhelming. I'm leaving until someone has the courtesy to answer my question. So one more time:

What's the general concessus on Other M Ridley being playable? Despite all I've said he actually would make sense, being the most humanoid of all Ridley's incarnations, with Samus' an Other M redesign and the Pyrosphere being teased at I can almost see that happening.... If he weren't too big that is.
 

AnOkayDM

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Ok, ok so not that I wouldn't love to keep arguing with all of you, even if it is a bit overwhelming. I'm leaving until someone has the courtesy to answer my question. So one more time:

What's the general concessus on Other M Ridley being playable? Despite all I've said he actually would make sense, being the most humanoid of all Ridley's incarnations, with Samus' an Other M redesign and the Pyrosphere being teased at I can almost see that happening.... If he weren't too big that is.
Well, I answered, but you probably wrote off my entire post as the ravings of a madman.

See ya though.
 

Pacack

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Ok, ok so not that I wouldn't love to keep arguing with all of you, even if it is a bit overwhelming. I'm leaving until someone has the courtesy to answer my question. So one more time:

What's the general concessus on Other M Ridley being playable? Despite all I've said he actually would make sense, being the most humanoid of all Ridley's incarnations, with Samus' an Other M redesign and the Pyrosphere being teased at I can almost see that happening.... If he weren't too big that is.
I wouldn't mind it, but I'd prefer it if it were a different design.
 
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