The Professor Layton for SSB4 thread!

[Maffewt]

I think 3rd party characters need to have the benefit of nostalgia moreso than 1st or 2nd party characters. Sonic, Snake and Mega Man all have HUGE fan bases and people who think fondly of them. Even appearing in general pop culture.

I don't think Layton has that historical or cultural appeal to warrant a spot on the roster. That's the one thing that really skewers his chances. It doesn't help things that he seems to be a pacifist. Of course Villager is a pacifist too but he can go down the mischievous antics route....Layton can't go down that route because he's a fairly serious character.

I think that bodes well for Layton. It'd look old fashioned, backwards-thinking and samey if every third party was retro. Layton would ad variety and show that Nintendo still has stuff to offer in the way of big exclusive third parties. And I mean, I genuinely can't think of more commercially and critically successful third parties that are as well known as Layton that are exclusive to Nintendo for many years. in fact, I'd say there aren't that many in general from recent years.

 

[fogbadge]

as promised here's ness

Spoiler

I say, whos this fine young fellow?

That's ness professor he's a bit like you

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Really? How so?​

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He's not one to turn down someone in trouble and he never gives up

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He sounds like quite the young gentleman its a shame we're fighting​

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Watch out for his PSI attacks they can be quite deadly

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well even a true gentleman can prove to be a formidable opponent​

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i think i'll do one for the villager next unless you'd rather i didnt kikwi​

 

[Curious Villager]

I've added your codec to the OP fogbadge, nicely done. Feel free to do a Villager one if you like. I'll do the newcomers as soon as I'm done with the veterans.

Anyways next in line is Pokemon Trainer for Luke, Sheik for Flora and Zero Suit Samus for Emmy.

[collapse=Layton and Luke about Pokemon Trainer]

That boy over there, I say isn't that a Pokemon Trainer?

Correct and he uses three pokemon against you, Professor.

All three at the same time? That seems hardly fair...​

Well not all three at the same time thankfully, but he does use one each time and he has the ability to switch them around whenever he needs to.

I see...​

By the way, the three Pokemon he uses are Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard which each represent Water, Grass and Fire.

Professor, I think this is quite the unfair match, should I call up Flora and Emmy to come along with me and fight this battle for you? I'll be your Squirtle, Flora will be your Ivysaur and Emmy will be your Charizard. It would be the perfect match, the Pokemon Trainer wouldn't see it coming!

Haha no I'd rather you didn't Luke, I'd sooner see myself demolished in the hospital than any of you three getting hurt. Leave it to me on handling his Pokemon okay?​

I understand..... should I attack the Pokemon Trainer instead then.

You'd better not Luke, unless you want to get in trouble. I can handle his Pokemon just fine so there is no need for concern my boy. If you want to be of most help to me then its for the best if you just stand back and don't try to sabotage the fight in anyway, alright?​

Okay Professor...

​

[/collapse]
[collapse=Layton and Flora about Sheik]

Huh! Professor! What just happened to Zelda? She looks so different now.

She seems to have.... worn up a disguise.​

Oh you mean like how Don Paolo changes his disguise in order to fool everyone that he's someone else?

And you my dear?​

And *teehee* me too of course. But anyway, about Zelda's disguise. She looks a whole lot more battle ready than when she was dressed as a Princess. It's almost as if she's a completely different person now.

She does indeed. I've met enough people who dons a disguise in many ways so seeing Zelda change herself up like this isn't too surprising for me.​

Do you think that one day I will be able to disguise myself like Zelda can Professor?

With a bit of practice I suppose my dear, so long as you don't use them for the wrong reasons...​

Such as?

Trying to sneak into my cases for example.​

*Teehee* Of course I wouldn't Professor..... Of course I wouldn't....

​

[/collapse]
[collapse=Layton and Emmy about Zero Suit Samus]

Well this is something I didn't expect to see from Samus.

I suppose her power suit wasn't strong enough for that huge laser she shot out, Professor. Good thing she was wearing that Zero Suit. But just because she lost her Power Suit doesn't mean she's any weaker.

She does look more agile yes.​

Plus she is also using a plasma gun now which has the ability to stun her opponents for a a second or two.

That sounds quite dangerous.​

You know Professor. I kinda like her suit, how do you think I would look in it?

I think you dressing up as Link is quite enough my dear, plus I don't want to see you giving Luke and Flora any ideas.​

Oh alright.... Hey wait.... Professor, I already told you that I'm not cosplaying as Link!

Haha I guess I couldn't help myself again.​

[/collapse]

 

[Pazzo.]

I've added your codec to the OP fogbadge, nicely done. Feel free to do a Villager one if you like. I'll do the newcomers as soon as I'm done with the veterans.

Anyways next in line is Pokemon Trainer for Luke, Sheik for Flora and Zero Suit Samus for Emmy.

[collapse=Layton and Luke about Pokemon Trainer]

That boy over there, I say isn't that a Pokemon Trainer?

Correct and he uses three pokemon against you, Professor.

All three at the same time? That seems hardly fair...​

Well not all three at the same time thankfully, but he does use one each time and he has the ability to switch them around whenever he needs to.

I see...​

By the way, the three Pokemon he uses are Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard which each represent Water, Grass and Fire.

Professor, I think this is quite the unfair match, should I call up Flora and Emmy to come along with me and fight this battle for you? I'll be your Squirtle, Flora will be your Ivysaur and Emmy will be your Charizard. It would be the perfect match, the Pokemon Trainer wouldn't see it coming!

Haha no I'd rather you didn't Luke, I'd sooner see myself demolished in the hospital than any of you three getting hurt. Leave it to me on handling his Pokemon okay?​

I understand..... should I attack the Pokemon Trainer instead then.

You'd better not Luke, unless you want to get in trouble. I can handle his Pokemon just fine so there is no need for concern my boy. If you want to be of most help to me then its for the best if you just stand back and don't try to sabotage the fight in anyway, alright?​

Okay Professor...

​

[/collapse]
[collapse=Layton and Flora about Sheik]

Huh! Professor! What just happened to Zelda? She looks so different now.

She seems to have.... worn up a disguise.​

Oh you mean like how Don Paolo changes his disguise to fool everyone he's someone else?

And you my dear?​

And *teehee* me too of course. But anyway, about Zelda's transformation. She looks a whole lot more battle ready than when she was dressed as a Princess. It's almost as if she's a completely different person now.

She does indeed. I've met enough people who dons a disguise in many ways so seeing Zelda change herself up like this isn't too surprising for me.​

Do you think that one day I will be able to disguise myself like Zelda can Professor?

With a bit of practice I suppose my dear, so long as you don't use them for the wrong reasons...​

Such as?

Trying to sneak into my cases for example.​

*Teehee* Sure I wouldn't Professor..... Sure....

​

[/collapse]
[collapse=Layton and Emmy about Zero Suit Samus]

Well this is something I didn't expect to see from Samus.

I suppose her power suit wasn't strong enough for that huge laser she shot out, Professor. Good thing she was wearing that Zero Suit. But just because she lost her Power Suit doesn't mean she's any weaker.

She does look more agile yes.​

Plus she is also using a plasma gun now which has the ability to stun her opponents for a a second or two.

That sounds quite dangerous.​

You know Professor. I kinda like her suit, how do you think I would look in it?

I think you dressing up as Link is quite enough my dear, plus I don't want to see you giving Luke and Flora any ideas.​

Oh alright.... Hey wait.... Professor, I already told you that I'm not cosplaying as Link!

Haha I guess I couldn't help myself again.​

[/collapse]

Poor Luke... has to sit on the sidelines... Just joking. Great job Kiwi! keep it up!

 

[Curious Villager]

Poor Luke... has to sit on the sidelines... Just joking. Great job Kiwi! keep it up!

He really wants to be a part of the Smash Bros cast.

Too bad Professor Layton is a third party series so only Layton himself really stands a chance and even that is probably too much to ask.

And thanks by the way.

 

[Pazzo.]

He really wants to be part of the Smash Bros cast.

Too bad Professor Layton is a third party series so only Layton himself really stands a chance and even that is probably too much to ask.

And thanks by the way.

Yep. Besides, how would Luke even fight? Wait, we do have Jigglypuff in the game... Luke would have a chance.

 

[Curious Villager]

Yep. Besides, how would Luke even fight? Wait, we do have Jigglypuff in the game... Luke would have a chance.

He calls up his animal friends! And puzzles too of course.

But lets try and get Layton in first eh?

 

[fogbadge]

well then here's the villager

Spoiler

Who's this rather happy chap?

That's the villager from animal crossing professor

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So what can he do?​

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He do all sorts, attack with anything from an umbrella to a firework, he can even pocket items

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Pocket items?​

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He can store items and projectiles and use them for a surprise attack later on, I've even seen him flying on a gyroid

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He sounds like the most unusual fighter​

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he hasn't had any fighting experience in the past so i guess he went with what he had

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well i can relate to that​

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[Curious Villager]

Nicely done. I can't wait to start on the newcomers as well soon. ^_^

As usual I'll add your codec to the OP fogbadge.

 

[fogbadge]

i though i'd do one for the wii fit trainer

Spoiler

So Emmy who's this young woman?

That's the Wii Fit Trainer Professor

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a fitness trainer?​

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yes, so naturally many of her moves come from yoga and muscle workouts

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well I guess you never know whos going to be in smash​

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that's true professor, though i think i could take her

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i believe i am fine for now​

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if you say so Professor

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[Curious Villager]

I've included it to the OP fogbadge.

Here is Fox for Luke, Meta Knight for Flora and Donkey Kong for Emmy

[collapse=Layton and Luke about Fox]

I say, I've never seen a fox before that can stand on two legs and wear space clothes for that matter. Do you think you can communicate with him Luke?

I don't think I need to Professor, Fox seems to be capable of human speech just fine.

Oh really now? ​

Yeah, he's apparently a commando-for-hire that most commonly fights in a galaxy called the Lylat System. He's the leader of the Starfox team and often has to deal with his arch nemesis Andross as well as the Star Wolf Team.

Sounds like quite the interesting individual. You said that he most commonly fights in outer space, what kind of space craft does he use?​

One that is known as the Arwing I suppose, it has the ability to shoot lasers, throw Smart Bombs and doing Barrel Rolls. Don't worry Professor, you won't have to deal with that when fighting Fox, especially not here in St. Mystere at least.

Well that is good to know.​

Instead, he will be making use of the Landmaster Tank!

A what?!?​

Well it basically does everything an Arwing can plus more, such as driving you over and carrying you out of the stage, causing a star KO and all.

Well I guess that's.... good to know...​

[/collapse]
[collapse=Layton and Flora about Meta Knight]

My word, that thing with the mask sure has very fast reflexes with his sword.

I see you're fighting Meta Knight Professor. He's a knight from Dreamland. Whatever you do, don't get caught into his barrage attack. The speed of his sword attack is so fast it is said to have the ability to break the sound barrier.

From the way you make it sound Flora, Meta Knight sure sounds like a ferocious individual.​

Well many opponents do have a lot of troubles with his split second speed attacks to the point that he's often banned from many tournaments. He's definitely a force to be reckoned with. Do you think you can take him on with your own fast paced fencing skills Professor?

Well why of course I can my dear. If anybody ever tried to hurt you, my fighting skills need to be top notch in order to make sure you stay safe and sound.​

Oh cool. Should we throw a test run for that then Professor?

Wait, what?​

Hey Meta Knight! You think that speedy sword attacks of yours scare the Professor off? He has dealt with sword wielding people 3 times your size! He can beat you with ease and then he will become the next God-Tier just you wait and see!

Wait, Flora I was only...​

Go for it Professor! I want to see you come back home with Meta Knight's mask as a souvenir okay?

Oh dear, what have I gotten myself into? Well I guess that's what you get for trying to make your girl very happy...​

Very well then, guess I will have to make Flora proud by taking him on either way.​

I do hope the guys at Nintendo nerved him a little though...​

[/collapse]
[collapse=Layton and Emmy about Donkey Kong]

Look at that mountain of an ape right there Professor. Are you sure you don't need my help in taking him out?

Much appreciated. But no thank you Emmy.​

This Donkey Kong, isn't the same one who fought Mario all those years ago in the Arcade Era isn't it?​

Yeah, he's apparently the gandson.

Indeed, very well then. About this Donkey Kong then, what would be his history?​

Bananas.

Pardon me?​

Bananas.... Lots and lots of bananas.... And enemies who steal his bananas just to... politely putting it, irritating him.

Poor Donkey Kong, perhaps I should offer him a tasty banana after this match so he wouldn't feel that every one is out to take over his favourite fruit.​

That's a very sweet thought of you professor.

Well you got to be a true gentleman towards everyone of course, even towards apes. I mean even Donkey Kong agrees with me. Look, he's wearing a tie. And so neatly too.​

Perhaps you should offer him a top-hat too one of these days eh Professor?

[/collapse]

 

[fogbadge]

well seeing as iv'e done the other two newcomers here's megaman's

Spoiler

Ah i believe this is one of my fellow guest competitors

yeah that's Mega Man, he's powerhouse robot

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I imagine he has a lot of tricks up his sleeve​

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he's got a whole arsenal of weapons from the robot masters he's defeated

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such as?​

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well there's his metal blade which can be thrown i eight directions, there's his crash bomber which can stick to you and his leaf shield which protects an attacks

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my word​

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he even has his robot dog Rush to help out, maybe i should give you a hand Professor

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(why is everyone so insistent on helping out in the battle?)​

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[Pazzo.]

well seeing as iv'e done the other two newcomers here's megaman's

Spoiler

Ah i believe this is one of my fellow guest competitors

yeah that's Mega Man, he's powerhouse robot

​

I imagine he has a lot of tricks up his sleeve​

​

he's got a whole arsenal of weapons from the robot masters he's defeated

​

such as?​

​

well there's his metal blade which can be thrown i eight directions, there's his crash bomber which can stick to you and his leaf shield which protects an attacks

​

my word​

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he even has his robot dog Rush to help out, maybe i should give you a hand Professor

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(why is everyone so insistent on helping out in the battle?)​

​

​

They all just wanna help...

 

[Pazzo.]

well seeing as iv'e done the other two newcomers here's megaman's

Spoiler

Ah i believe this is one of my fellow guest competitors

yeah that's Mega Man, he's powerhouse robot

​

I imagine he has a lot of tricks up his sleeve​

​

he's got a whole arsenal of weapons from the robot masters he's defeated

​

such as?​

​

well there's his metal blade which can be thrown i eight directions, there's his crash bomber which can stick to you and his leaf shield which protects an attacks

​

my word​

​

he even has his robot dog Rush to help out, maybe i should give you a hand Professor

​

(why is everyone so insistent on helping out in the battle?)​

​

​

Argh... Double post.

 

[Curious Villager]

Nicely done again fogbadge. I've included it to the OP.

By the way. Do you guys think I should include a counter argument section in the OP? Even though we don't get too many arguments here besides the occasional "Pacifist" argument. It may be best to have one anyway don't you think? I mean some of the bigger support threads have it, it may prove useful if we try and get the support growing and that will likely also increase the number of detractors and all... :/

 

[DarkKry4]

He seems interesting. Thats all i'll say.....

 

[fogbadge]

Nicely done again fogbadge. I've included it to the OP.

By the way. Do you guys think I should include a counter argument section in the OP? Even though we don't get too many arguments here besides the occasional "Pacifist" argument. It may be best to have one anyway don't you think? I mean some of the bigger support threads have it, it may prove useful if we try and get the support growing and that will likely also increase the number of detractors and all... :/

its worth a try

 

[Curious Villager]

He seems interesting. Thats all i'll say.....

That's okay. I'm still happy to hear that. ^_^

its worth a try

Yeah alright, guess I will have to research up for any arguments people throw at Layton and then think up some good counter arguments for them. It may also be useful to think up some possible arguments as well and come up for some counterargument to those. :/

 

[Pazzo.]

Sounds like a plan. Phoenix Wright would be proud. Speaking of our favorite detective-archeologist-attorney pair, is anyone pumped at the possibility of PL VS. AA coming to the US?

Oh, and If you need any help with the counter-arguments, I'll be glad to help. I'm in the local debate club.

 

[Pazzo.]

Wow... Sorry for the double post. My computer is wacky.

Hey, 333 posts!

 

[Curious Villager]

Sounds like a plan. Phoenix Wright would be proud. Speaking of our favorite detective-archeologist-attorney pair, is anyone pumped at the possibility of PL VS. AA coming to the US?

Oh, and If you need any help with the counter-arguments, I'll be glad to help. I'm in the local debate club.

Yeah I'm looking forward to the crossover as well. I can't wait for all the fingerpointing that will happen once the crossover comes out.

Alright, so far I've found these two arguments.

1. He's a pacifist.
2. The Layton series is not historical in gaming or something to that extend. (Basically that the series is too young and not as old as the Mario, Sonic and Megaman franchise from my understanding)

Sure I appreciate every help I can get. ^_^ If you found any arguments against him or know any good counter arguments feel free to share.

 

[Pazzo.]

"Professor Layton is not that Important."

That's one argument I've heard.

Easy to counter, just site the sales of the games in Japan. Remember how well MM did there?

 

[Pazzo.]

This is getting silly... sorry again for the double posts.

 

[Curious Villager]

"Professor Layton is not that Important."

That's one argument I've heard.

Easy to counter, just site the sales of the games in Japan. Remember how well MM did there?

To be honest, the first week sales of Miracle Mask was quite poor (compared to previous Layton games). But you can counter that by saying that it was a 3DS launch title in Japan and thus was only starting on growing a userbase than the DS did. But that didn't stop the game from being Japan's best selling 3DS launch title and what gave the Nintendo 3DS a starting boost over there.

I'm going to have to do a bit more research on this.

Also, before we lose this.
http://smashboards.com/threads/roster-prediction-discussion-thread.336018/page-315#post-15713028
Credit to N3ON for this.

This is getting silly... sorry again for the double posts.

Just click on the post reply button once and wait for a bit to get your post posted. No need to click multiple times on the post reply button. (Assuming that's what you are doing)

 

[Curious Villager]

Okay I've included a fan art section in the OP now. If anybody has any fan art they would like to share, feel free to do so and I will happily include it here.

Although if you are going to share someone else's work, do be sure you get the permission of the original artist first, I don't want any troubles with art theft and all alright?

But either way, enjoy. ^_^

I'll continue work on the counter arguments.

 

[Hippopotasauce]

I have fanart.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/FCS8B0f.png[/collapse]

 

[Pazzo.]

Okay I've included a fan art section in the OP now. If anybody has any fan art they would like to share, feel free to do so and I will happily include it here.

Although if you are going to share someone else's work, do be sure you get the permission of the original artist first, I don't want any troubles with art theft and all alright?

But either way, enjoy. ^_^

I'll continue work on the counter arguments.

I'll work on my counter-arguments for other stuff, like Layton is a pacifist. (LAME)

 

[fogbadge]

i made some pallet swaps of layton a few weeks ago, would be interested in including them kikwi?

 

[Hoots]

I'll work on my counter-arguments for other stuff, like Layton is a pacifist. (LAME)

If Layton was a true pacifist, Anton would have killed him.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'll work on my counter-arguments for other stuff, like Layton is a pacifist. (LAME)

Sure, go ahead. I'll be looking forward to them. ^_^

i made some pallet swaps of layton a few weeks ago, would be interested in including them kikwi?

Sure, go ahead. I'll prepare a section for the pallet swaps then. I was supposed to make my own but I didn't get around to doing them yet. :/
I've just included them into the newly made pallete swap section. ^_^
Though if I could give a small critisism, try to not colour him in too thickly or else it would be difficult to make him out properly...

If Layton was a true pacifist, Anton would have killed him.

Yeah, but you know how certain detractors can be like... *coughRidleytoobigcoughToonLinktoocellshadedcough* >_> But with Villager and Wii Fit Trainer being playable now that pacifist argument should have been killed by now but yeah...

 

[DarkKry4]

That's okay. I'm still happy to hear that. ^_^

lol why?

 

[Curious Villager]

lol why?

Because he seems interesting to you. That's cool in my book and it's at least something a little positive.

 

[Hoots]

But with Villager and Wii Fit Trainer being playable now that pacifist argument should have been killed by now but yeah...

That's why I changed my signature. The argument "he's not a fighter" can no longer be made.

 

[fogbadge]

ok here's my pallet swaps

Spoiler

im afraid none of them are references to other characters

edit: oh i guess you found them in the pallet swap thread

 

[Pazzo.]

That's why I changed my signature. The argument "he's not a fighter" can no longer be made.

Because when a Exercise video game character and a Villager can make it in, so can Layton, who BTW, is not a pacifist.

Anywho, here are my counter-arguments for the Layton arguments.

"Professor Layton is a Pacifist."

Wii Fit Trainer. Villager. Nuff' said.

No, In all reality, Professor Layton has fought with a weapon, in self defense, or for others, in 5 of his 6 games.

"Professor Layton is too young of a game series to get in."

When did Sakurai say this was a requirement? As long as he appeared on a Nintendo console, and originated in a Video Game, he can start to be considered.

"Professor Layton is not that important."

To quote Reggie Fils-Aime: "What's Wrong with you?"

Professor Layton has a HUGE impact in Japan, and other regions. Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask was a launch title for the 3DS, and became the best selling game on the day of the system's launch. It sold over 117,000 copies. It also became the second best selling Third-Party game, right behind Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate.

 

[Curious Villager]

Nicely done MaskO'Gears, I will start setting up the counter argument section in the OP and include your counter arguments in there. I will then also try and put my counter arguments in there too.

Edit: Okay I've included a counter argument section. I should get to work on mine now.

 

[Curious Villager]

Okay here are my counter arguments, I'm not sure if I've done them well enough so any opinions and criticisms would be welcome I guess.

Spoiler

Professor Layton is a pacifist.

If Layton was a true pacifist, then the likes of Anton and Descole would have killed him easily throughout the games as a true pacifist is someone who is fully opposed to any kinds of violence in order to settle down any conflicts and that they believe that they can all be settled peacefully. If this is true then Layton has already broken the pacifist rule as like I said, if he was a true pacifist then anyone who ever tried to fight him would have successfully killed him which is not the case as he does fight back if he has to settle things and he did this plenty of times throughout the series to not be considered a pacifist.

And if we take this a step further with the whole "Layton doesn't fight" argument, then say hi to Wii Fit Trainer and Villager, two characters who never fought at all in their respective games and yet still made it in as playable characters in the Super Smash Bros series. If they can make it, then what's stopping Layton, especially since he did fight many times before in his games.

The Layton series is too young to warrant a playable spot in Smash Bros.

If this was true then we shouldn't have gotten Wii Fit Trainer in Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS as the Wii Fit series itself first came out in Japan in 1st December 2007 which in fact is several month's younger than Professor Layton and the Curious Village which came out in Japan on 15th Februari 2007 both games being at least around 6 years old (7 by the time Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS get released if there are no big delays). Which then shows that Wii Fit is several month's younger than Professor Layton and still got a playable character in the Super Smash Bros series.

Heck if you want to take it a step further. The first Pokemon Red and Green came out in Japan in 1996 and the first Super Smash Bros for the N64 came out in 1999 which would mean that there was only a 3 year difference between the two series at the time. Would you be telling me that Pokemon was a too young franchise as well to warrant a spot in the first Super Smash Bros game? Even Starfox was only 6 years old before Fox became playable.

Only third parties that had an impact from the nineties and eighties are allowed in Smash Bros.

Sakurai never made such a criteria for third parties, only that they need to have originated in a videogame and that they have appeared on a Nintendo console at least once. Both criteria's that the Professor Layton series have going for it. Yes the fact that Sonic and Mega Man made it into smash was most likely due their popularity of the early days such as the Mario vs Sonic rivalry and Megaman's popularity of the NES games. But that doesn't mean that every third party needs to have retro popularity in order to make it into Smash.

And the Professor Layton series while young, still made a huge impact and became one of the most successful DS exclusive series especially in Japan and Europe. The series was even popular enough to get its own movie as well as books and written novels out of it. Miracle Mask was also basically Japan's killer app as it was that game that really boosted the sales for the 3DS when it was first launched while the system did poorly in other regions. Not to mention that Unwound/Lost Future is probably the most popular Layton game yet and was praised for being one of the games that had one of the most powerful endings yet.

Not to mention Snake, while Metal gear did exist since 1987, the series had still more of an impact, popularity and history on the Playstation than on the Nintendo consoles.

I think I need to include some more points but oh well. I'll work further on this list as time goes on I suppose. Just for now, is this good enough or do I need to change or add things? :/

 

[Pazzo.]

Okay here are my counter arguments, I'm not sure if I've done them well enough so any opinions and criticisms would be welcome I guess.

Spoiler

Professor Layton is a pacifist.

If Layton was a true pacifist, then the likes of Anton and Descole would have killed him easily throughout the games as a true pacifist is someone who is fully opposed to any kinds of violence in order to settle down any conflicts and that they believe that they can all be settled peacefully. If this is true then Layton has already broken the pacifist rule as like I said, if he was a true pacifist then anyone who ever tried to fight him would have successfully killed him which is not the case as he does fight back if he has to settle things and he did this plenty of times throughout the series to not be considered a pacifist.

And if we take this a step further with the whole "Layton doesn't fight" argument, then say hi to Wii Fit Trainer and Villager, two characters who never fought at all in their respective games and yet still made it in as playable characters in the Super Smash Bros series. If they can make it, then what's stopping Layton, especially since he did fight many times before in his games.

The Layton series is too young to warrant a playable spot in Smash Bros.

If this was true then we shouldn't have gotten Wii Fit Trainer in Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS as the Wii Fit series itself first came out in Japan in 1st December 2007 which in fact is several month's younger than Professor Layton and the Curious Village which came out in Japan on 15th Februari 2007 both games being at least around 6 years old (7 by the time Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS get released if there are no big delays). Which then shows that Wii Fit is several month's younger than Professor Layton and still got a playable character in the Super Smash Bros series.

Heck if you want to take it a step further. The first Pokemon Red and Green came out in Japan in 1996 and the first Super Smash Bros for the N64 came out in 1999 which would mean that there was only a 3 year difference between the two series at the time. Would you be telling me that Pokemon was a too young franchise as well to warrant a spot in the first Super Smash Bros game? Even Starfox was only 6 years old before Fox became playable.

Only third parties that had an impact from the nineties and eighties are allowed in Smash Bros.

Sakurai never made such a criteria for third parties, only that they need to have originated in a videogame and that they have appeared on a Nintendo console at least once. Both criteria's that the Professor Layton series have going for it. Yes the fact that Sonic and Mega Man made it into smash was most likely due their popularity of the early days such as the Mario vs Sonic rivalry and Megaman's popularity of the NES games. But that doesn't mean that every third party needs to have retro popularity in order to make it into Smash.

And the Professor Layton series while young, still made a huge impact and became one of the most successful DS exclusive series especially in Japan and Europe. The series was even popular enough to get its own movie as well as books and written novels out of it. Miracle Mask was also basically Japan's killer app as it was that game that really boosted the sales for the 3DS when it was first launched while the system did poorly in other regions. Not to mention that Unwound/Lost Future is probably the most popular Layton game yet and was praised for being one of the games that had one of the most powerful endings yet.

Not to mention Snake, while Metal gear did exist since 1987, the series had still more of an impact, popularity and history on the Playstation than on the Nintendo consoles.

I think I need to include some more points but oh well. I'll work further on this list as time goes on I suppose. Just for now, is this good enough or do I need to change or add things? :/

Very Thorough. Let the haters attack us now!

 

[Deleted member]

Well, if you couldn't tell by my avatar, if I did get to pick a second third party character for SSB4, it would definitly be Layton.

 

[Groose]

Sounds like a plan. Phoenix Wright would be proud. Speaking of our favorite detective-archeologist-attorney pair, is anyone pumped at the possibility of PL VS. AA coming to the US?

Oh, and If you need any help with the counter-arguments, I'll be glad to help. I'm in the local debate club.

I'm getting fed up waiting for scraps of news about the greatest crossover of all. Is there some sort of online petition already working, or shall I start one?

I do think your counterarguments for Layton are good. But the one thing I see as a threat isn't really covered: Is Layton important and iconic enough to be a Third-Party candidate? Is he requested enough?