FullMoon
i'm just joking with you
If a name were to be given I would say Bouncing Slash since Greninja makes the opponent bounce off the ground.
Plus it could be shortened to BS.
Plus it could be shortened to BS.
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Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion
- Thread starter Gunla
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The Goldenbrawler
Smash Ace
It's been forever since I've posted here, but uh, Greninja sneaks into the collection!
(May or may not be considering adding the ninja frog into my list of mains :3)
(May or may not be considering adding the ninja frog into my list of mains :3)
Funkermonster
The Clown
So lately, I've become a lot more interested in art and been taking it pret-ty seriously, could very well be my career choice when I grow. I've taken a manga class for a month, bought myself a sketchbook (w/100 pages), 4 how-to-draw-comics/manga books, and I frequently look at drawing guides all the time; got my own little ongoing comic boo series I hope I can publish one day. My artistic prowess still isn't great, but I think I'm seeing quite some improvement compared to before and I've never felt this confident about it, I think I am making some slow but definite improvements and I'm happy with it.
But that's besides the point: I thought of making something of a fanart poster image for myself as a smasher and featuring a sketch or short comic featuring my two main characters:
, especially if I ever get my own YT channel or something cool like that. It'd have Mega blast away at a couple fighters from the game and just being a badass, and eventually he'll get taken down himself by somebody and his robot body has taken too much damage for him to continue battling. So as a last resort, he shoots out a Poke Ball from his Mega Buster and Greninja pops out of it to take his place and duel with the remaining enemies, essentially saving his hide and finishing what he couldn't. Mega Man is my main, Greninja is my secondary (used to be the other way around),, and I think this would very well illustrate that and just be real fun to make.
I sense that its going to be a difficult task to learn how to actually draw these two (especially Greninja) and other characters though, drawing is fun but its one hell of a long process. Can't wait to get around to it though, gonna enjoy it
But that's besides the point: I thought of making something of a fanart poster image for myself as a smasher and featuring a sketch or short comic featuring my two main characters:
, especially if I ever get my own YT channel or something cool like that. It'd have Mega blast away at a couple fighters from the game and just being a badass, and eventually he'll get taken down himself by somebody and his robot body has taken too much damage for him to continue battling. So as a last resort, he shoots out a Poke Ball from his Mega Buster and Greninja pops out of it to take his place and duel with the remaining enemies, essentially saving his hide and finishing what he couldn't. Mega Man is my main, Greninja is my secondary (used to be the other way around),, and I think this would very well illustrate that and just be real fun to make.I sense that its going to be a difficult task to learn how to actually draw these two (especially Greninja) and other characters though, drawing is fun but its one hell of a long process. Can't wait to get around to it though, gonna enjoy it
Just a heads up from a fellow artist already in the industry. If you want to make any money with manga specifically.....Japan is gonna be your best bet. The western world manga scene in terms of careers is pretty dead.So lately, I've become a lot more interested in art and been taking it pret-ty seriously, could very well be my career choice when I grow. I've taken a manga class for a month, bought myself a sketchbook (w/100 pages), 4 how-to-draw-comics/manga books, and I frequently look at drawing guides all the time; got my own little ongoing comic boo series I hope I can publish one day. My artistic prowess still isn't great, but I think I'm seeing quite some improvement compared to before and I've never felt this confident about it, I think I am making some slow but definite improvements and I'm happy with it.
But that's besides the point: I thought of making something of a fanart poster image for myself as a smasher and featuring a sketch or short comic featuring my two main characters:
I sense that its going to be a difficult task to learn how to actually draw these two (especially Greninja) and other characters though, drawing is fun but its one hell of a long process. Can't wait to get around to it though, gonna enjoy it
If you need more specific info in terms of art careers or art in general feel free to shoot me a pm ^_^
elusiveTranscendent
Smash Lord
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASo lately, I've become a lot more interested in art and been taking it pret-ty seriously, could very well be my career choice when I grow. I've taken a manga class for a month, bought myself a sketchbook (w/100 pages), 4 how-to-draw-comics/manga books, and I frequently look at drawing guides all the time; got my own little ongoing comic boo series I hope I can publish one day. My artistic prowess still isn't great, but I think I'm seeing quite some improvement compared to before and I've never felt this confident about it, I think I am making some slow but definite improvements and I'm happy with it.
But that's besides the point: I thought of making something of a fanart poster image for myself as a smasher and featuring a sketch or short comic featuring my two main characters:
I sense that its going to be a difficult task to learn how to actually draw these two (especially Greninja) and other characters though, drawing is fun but its one hell of a long process. Can't wait to get around to it though, gonna enjoy it
ART
ART
ART
ART
ART
ART
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ART
gimme the goods
Kneutronic
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Ah, Greninja. A Pokemon proven to be too powerful for the standard RPG metagame for some reason (Greninja will not survive in Smogon's Ubers Metagame.), and yet... His prowess in his series obviously does not quite shine in this game. Of course, Greninja was my most hyped new character announced, and he is wickedly fast, but even then he struggles to keep up with top tier threats.
I would say Greninja's main problems are his KO power and his range. His range can be remedied thanks to Water Shuriken, but I feel that most of his attacks kinda fall short in the range department, besides his smash attacks. His smash attacks are also his only powerful and reliable KO moves, and they can be punished. He does have other KO options, though, but they are somewhat unreliable; his d-air can meteor smash, but it is a stall-then-fall, and as such is very risky to use off stage. His f-air is a reliable edgeguarder and off-stage KO option, but it's slow wind-up leaves it predictable. He can also use Shadow Sneak to mess with the opponent, but it is fairly easy to block and leaves Greninja open.
His grab game is also decent. To me, I believe his up-throw is his best combo starter, and can lead into an u-air if timed correctly, but the opponent can also dodge this string, as I have noticed in gameplay. His down-throw can also lead into a dash attack or a well-timed aerial attack.
All and all, that's my opinion on Greninja. He is still a good character, but his problems can leave him at a disadvantage against such characters who have quite a bit of range in their attacks, like RosaLuma, and overall with characters who can effectively punish his moves.
I would say Greninja's main problems are his KO power and his range. His range can be remedied thanks to Water Shuriken, but I feel that most of his attacks kinda fall short in the range department, besides his smash attacks. His smash attacks are also his only powerful and reliable KO moves, and they can be punished. He does have other KO options, though, but they are somewhat unreliable; his d-air can meteor smash, but it is a stall-then-fall, and as such is very risky to use off stage. His f-air is a reliable edgeguarder and off-stage KO option, but it's slow wind-up leaves it predictable. He can also use Shadow Sneak to mess with the opponent, but it is fairly easy to block and leaves Greninja open.
His grab game is also decent. To me, I believe his up-throw is his best combo starter, and can lead into an u-air if timed correctly, but the opponent can also dodge this string, as I have noticed in gameplay. His down-throw can also lead into a dash attack or a well-timed aerial attack.
All and all, that's my opinion on Greninja. He is still a good character, but his problems can leave him at a disadvantage against such characters who have quite a bit of range in their attacks, like RosaLuma, and overall with characters who can effectively punish his moves.
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TheRealDonquavious
Smash Cadet
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I believe greninja keeps up with the rest of the cast and is a high tier character. However, bringing him to this level simply takes a lot more time, patience, and skill than most, if not all, (except for peach lol that char is so technical) other characters.
Greninja's range is not bad in my opinion. My neutral game is heavily filled with spaced fairs, a move with such great range and shield pushback that it is essentially completely safe on shield when spaced correctly. Greninja's ftilt also comes to mind, now that it is buffed. His smashes have great range as well, but you mentioned that. Greninja may not have a ton of disjoints at his disposal, but I feel that he has enough to outrange a good bit of the cast.
Greninja does not have the best KO options, and his smashes (sans up smash) are not reliable or powerful enough to list as main KO options. However, his up smash is ridiculously powerful (albeit not safe) and can be combo' d into via sourspot nair for a guaranteed kill option at around 85-100 percent. One hard read can lead to an upsmash as well, as it is one of the best anti airs in the game. Greninja is also one of the best edge guarders in the game. I get a ton of kills by gimping with hydro pump and simply smacking an offstage opponent with bair or stage spiking them with bair. We also have up throw, a potent and reliable kill throw when rage is involved. Greninja may not have the most conventional kill options, but I don't think his kill options are a huge glaring weakness. He does rely on rage for kills, but he doesn't struggle nearly as much as say, Shiek.
Greninja's grab game is certainly interesting. I personally still haven't figured out whether I hate or love our options out of grab. At very low percents, D-throw to down tilt is great and leads straight into another grab. You can also up throw and read an air dodge for an upsmash if you notice the habit. At mid percents, up throw up air connects reliably on most characters and you can read air dodges for up air spikes or just a simple up air. At high percents, up throw up air is a 50/50 kill option. At very high percents, you can down throw for another 50/50 with fair. A little bit after that, up throw itself will kill.
Greninja's biggest weaknesses in my opinions are his extremely weak out of shield game, his awful standing grab (which is a part of his awful oos game), and the fact that he is heavily a lead character. Having your standing grab be as slow as a tether yet not give as much range as a tether is an unfortunate and unnecessary weakness. Greninja is at his strongest when in the lead and when he doesn't have to approach, but when behind, it is extremely hard to get back in the game.
I think Greninja is underestimated simply because he requires so much commitment to learn and patience to play. However, when you see great Greninjas such as aMSa (my idol lol) play, you can tell that the time that you put in will be what you get out in the end. So yeah, I hope I mighta changed your opinion of the frog a little bit with this kinda unnecessary wall of text. Also other, more experienced Greninjas please feel free to correct anything I said wrong here lol. I don't know nearly everything, I just hope I didn't completely miss the mark.
Also footstool combos are cool
Greninja's range is not bad in my opinion. My neutral game is heavily filled with spaced fairs, a move with such great range and shield pushback that it is essentially completely safe on shield when spaced correctly. Greninja's ftilt also comes to mind, now that it is buffed. His smashes have great range as well, but you mentioned that. Greninja may not have a ton of disjoints at his disposal, but I feel that he has enough to outrange a good bit of the cast.
Greninja does not have the best KO options, and his smashes (sans up smash) are not reliable or powerful enough to list as main KO options. However, his up smash is ridiculously powerful (albeit not safe) and can be combo' d into via sourspot nair for a guaranteed kill option at around 85-100 percent. One hard read can lead to an upsmash as well, as it is one of the best anti airs in the game. Greninja is also one of the best edge guarders in the game. I get a ton of kills by gimping with hydro pump and simply smacking an offstage opponent with bair or stage spiking them with bair. We also have up throw, a potent and reliable kill throw when rage is involved. Greninja may not have the most conventional kill options, but I don't think his kill options are a huge glaring weakness. He does rely on rage for kills, but he doesn't struggle nearly as much as say, Shiek.
Greninja's grab game is certainly interesting. I personally still haven't figured out whether I hate or love our options out of grab. At very low percents, D-throw to down tilt is great and leads straight into another grab. You can also up throw and read an air dodge for an upsmash if you notice the habit. At mid percents, up throw up air connects reliably on most characters and you can read air dodges for up air spikes or just a simple up air. At high percents, up throw up air is a 50/50 kill option. At very high percents, you can down throw for another 50/50 with fair. A little bit after that, up throw itself will kill.
Greninja's biggest weaknesses in my opinions are his extremely weak out of shield game, his awful standing grab (which is a part of his awful oos game), and the fact that he is heavily a lead character. Having your standing grab be as slow as a tether yet not give as much range as a tether is an unfortunate and unnecessary weakness. Greninja is at his strongest when in the lead and when he doesn't have to approach, but when behind, it is extremely hard to get back in the game.
I think Greninja is underestimated simply because he requires so much commitment to learn and patience to play. However, when you see great Greninjas such as aMSa (my idol lol) play, you can tell that the time that you put in will be what you get out in the end. So yeah, I hope I mighta changed your opinion of the frog a little bit with this kinda unnecessary wall of text. Also other, more experienced Greninjas please feel free to correct anything I said wrong here lol. I don't know nearly everything, I just hope I didn't completely miss the mark.
Also footstool combos are cool
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I would have said that Greninja is "good but struggles more than he should" over a week ago, but they finally buffed his Water Shuriken closer to where it needs to be. As a fast character whose hitboxes all come out slow, Water Shuriken is the center of his neutral game, and it just wasn't that good before they buffed it. I haven't been able to play much, but from what I've played, the shuriken buff and better mixups/ combos out of down throw have made a significant change. Hopefully as the game goes on now, he'll get back to being a serious pick rather than the mid-tier hero/ tiresome meme he's been for 9 months.
You don't use Shadow Sneak where it can be punished, you use it to bait and punish unsafe landings as well as airdodges after up throw. The only time it should be unsafe is when you try to read a dash attack or dash grab.
Greninja's matchups aren't easy, but he doesn't have many bad ones. You just can't play the same in every matchup and expect to win, you need to actually know the matchup. Luigi, for example, has Greninja beat in every single way at close range. There's just nothing you can do at all. But in neutral, Luigi can't get past Water Shuriken because it beats his projectiles and his air speed is way too slow to jump over it. You really need to play matchups as Greninja rather than playing how you always do and having it work.
You don't use Shadow Sneak where it can be punished, you use it to bait and punish unsafe landings as well as airdodges after up throw. The only time it should be unsafe is when you try to read a dash attack or dash grab.
Greninja's matchups aren't easy, but he doesn't have many bad ones. You just can't play the same in every matchup and expect to win, you need to actually know the matchup. Luigi, for example, has Greninja beat in every single way at close range. There's just nothing you can do at all. But in neutral, Luigi can't get past Water Shuriken because it beats his projectiles and his air speed is way too slow to jump over it. You really need to play matchups as Greninja rather than playing how you always do and having it work.
glith10
Smash Cadet
Interesting, i never had a problem with Luigi, When it comes to the Meta i would have to say greninja will probally change it the most by taking out shiek.
KERO
Smash Journeyman
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Well... I messed up... really badly at Smash Con guys. I could've potentially taken a game off of Mr. R, but after losing to him, I managed to drop 2 very significant leads against Smash God. I'm... really sorry guys. I'm going to be going to Japan next month (and will be there for a year), so that's the last national I'll be going to in America for a long time. I... I really wish I had been able to perform better, especially given my unusually stellar Brawl performance. One of these days, maybe I can properly rep the frog....
glith10
Smash Cadet
Is there a video of the match? Also do you know the best way to submit an event lol? It's says i need like 10+ post.
elusiveTranscendent
Smash Lord
Aw man, sucks to hear. But, that's okay! Don't be too hard on yourself. Still love you for trying and going all the way with our frog. <3
FullMoon
i'm just joking with you
Don't let the morale go down man. Losses happen and we're not always at the top of our game, beating yourself over it is not going to make anything better.
Move on, go to Japan and give aMSa some help in repping our ninja.
Funkermonster
The Clown
Just scored 2nd place at my local today in singles an around 3rd or 4th in Doubles with a Pac-Man player, the highest I've ever placed thus far. Once again, I still used Mega Man for the slight bulk of the time, but I still utilized my ninjitsu in at least 3 sets, and I've beaten quite a few people in casuals using both of them and I think I'm getting better than ever with both characters. 2 of my region's PR members were there, and I still placed a little higher than they did! If I can keep this up, maybe I'll get on the next PR myself, and I'll come out as my regions top player for both my characters (before, there weren't many other ninjas aroun here and I didn't have much to compete with, but now I'm hearing good stuff about this guy I haven't met yet and that he might be the top dog, I don't think we can allow that). When a match is really intense for me in a tournament, my heart tends to beat pretty fast and I get a little anxious during it and it affects how I play,carries over to my next match, but today I'v found a remedy for that: I brought my 3DS with me, and while I was waiting for my next game I just played some Mega Man 4 and it calmed me down; so that should help me perform a little better from now.
I also won 48 bucks from this and I successfully pre-ordered the amiibo retro pack at GS today, so today was pretty freakin' sweet to say the least.
I also won 48 bucks from this and I successfully pre-ordered the amiibo retro pack at GS today, so today was pretty freakin' sweet to say the least.
iVoltage
$5.99 Abuser
I actually play competitive pokemon at a high level lol. Greninja was basically too versatile and with the new moves that omega ruby and alpha sapphire brought it (low kick and gunk shot mainly) The main offender in gunk shot let it effectively have no counters. Its only real on previously was clefable which straight died to gunk shot. If it didn't have the 1.5x STAB boost on every move it wouldn't have been such a horrid issue. Just to clarify things :]
Kneutronic
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Yeah, I know how powerful Greninja is. The way I see it, he's too strong to be OU, but too weak to be Uber. There should be another Borderline in between the two tiers.
Lawliet626
Smash Apprentice
i saw both your matches man, you did so damn great and held your own really well against Mr. R, it was such a hype match and you had smash god in the bag, theres always a next timeGreat weekend at smash con, made it to R2 on my first nationals, got experience from the top players, and got so much practice and greninja training from KERO (i really enjoyed our games of tag) again, thank you so much man, the fact that you took so much of your time to help me means a lot
Ludiloco
Smash Journeyman
What
Smogon bans aren't really determined on how they'll do in Ubers, it's just based on if it's too strong for OU.
Greninja doesn't have a problem with KO power or range, and has more than just his smashes. Fair is a reliable KO move, as is up air. Plus, up smash is one of the best smash attacks in the game. Bair is awesome at taking stocks with stage spikes and offstage gimps.
Greninja's grab is terrible. He does get follow ups and his dash grab is decent but his standing grab is one of the worst in the game because it has little range and terrible startup. Up throw up air is true at a lot of %, you can't air dodge it until higher %.
Greninja's only real problem is his slow frame data. Everything else about his game is average to good to great. Awesome mobility, good setups, great recovery, good at offstage play, hydro pump is an amazing gimping tool, a decent projectile, and so on. Granted, that slow frame data takes him from being probably top tier to being upper mid. I firmly believe Greninja is top 20 in this game, that is hardly struggling to keep up.
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Kneutronic
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I might have misphrased what I said. I didn't say Greninja sucks, just that he has a couple of weaknesses that keep him from being a threat. Also, his u-air is only reliable if it is used near the upper blast line. Other than that, it's not very reliable for KOing. And also, I did mention his other KO options, as well as their weaknesses. They're only ever used given the right situation. Also, technically his grab is a move, and you said his standing grab has short range, sooooo...
And about Smogon... Even in OU, despite getting STAB off of every move and learning a couple of interesting moves, I would say his attack power is somewhat lacking due to his generally average offenses outside of speed. Now, if Smogon thought of an Uber-OU Borderline, we likely wouldn't have this conversation.
Now, I'm just gonna go ahead and ignore you before I accidentally turn this into a big thing...
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Ludiloco
Smash Journeyman
So I call you out on incorrect statements about the character and you put me on ignore
Ok nice talking with you
Ok nice talking with you
momochuu
Smash Legend
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I can't believe you actually responded to that post lol
Kneutronic
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Me or the user who should learn to read posts fully before responding to the last sentence?
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Ludiloco
Smash Journeyman
At this point, me neither
I get baited really hard when people are wrong about Greninja because it happens a lot
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elusiveTranscendent
Smash Lord
*COUGH*
ANYWAY
Anyone going to any big tournaments that are coming up? Love to see some more Greninja rep.
ANYWAY
Anyone going to any big tournaments that are coming up? Love to see some more Greninja rep.
Kneutronic
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Yes, please change the subject!
...I don't plan to go to any of them anytime soon... Maybe when I practice some more.
...I don't plan to go to any of them anytime soon... Maybe when I practice some more.
momochuu
Smash Legend
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i read the first two sentences a few days ago and just closed the tab tbh.
Ludiloco
Smash Journeyman
Probably the better response lol
elusiveTranscendent
Smash Lord
I'm planning on going to SKTAR. Really trying to grind up my skill before then.
FullMoon
i'm just joking with you
I really miss Greninja in OU. I mean come on Protean is such an awesome ability and I loved doing mindgames with it ;-;
Why did you have to be able to 2HKO literally everything Greninja, freaking Gunk Shot ;-;
Why did you have to be able to 2HKO literally everything Greninja, freaking Gunk Shot ;-;
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Ludiloco
Smash Journeyman
I will never miss Greninja in OU. So obnoxious
iVoltage
$5.99 Abuser
Better nerf pinkninja
Kneutronic
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...That's it, I'm using pink Greninja, now. *sarcasm*
elusiveTranscendent
Smash Lord
...I do when I have to play alt.
Ludiloco
Smash Journeyman
I used to main pink ninja
I have no idea what I was thinking. I switched to purple and I now play default.
I have no idea what I was thinking. I switched to purple and I now play default.
TheRealDonquavious
Smash Cadet
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I play pink ninja. Purples and default are cool too tho
My default is the all grey that noone else uses, but Pink is probably my most used one after that. I haaaaaaaaarrdly see anyone use the light purple one.
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Funkermonster
The Clown
When I play Air Shooter Mega Man, I play Greyninja
When I play Rush Coil Mega Man, I Play Redninja
When I play Leaf Shield Mega Man, I play Greeninja (although, Slash Claw Mega Man resembles it more)
When I use Default Mega Man, I just play Default Ninja
I don't use either of these often, but when play Top Spin Mega Man, I play Black Ninja (personally, I wish they used his actual shiny color from X & Y)
Pink Ninja? I like it, but I don't think any of Mega's colors look anything like it, and usually play these two together so I don't find myself using it much.
I kinda like using the same color with both of my characters whenever I play them both in For Glory or in friendlies with my pals, to make it feel... I dunno the proper word, but to make it feel more complimenting (and I think these two compliment each other pretty well pro/con-wise too, couldn't find a better team )? Overall, I mostly commonly use the Grey and Red ones, but I like using basically all of Greninja's palettes except the Lavender one, it makes me wanna hurl....
I used to main Green Ninja and then I stopped at some point, I dunno why. When he's this color, he kinda reminds me of the Battletoads.....
When I play Rush Coil Mega Man, I Play Redninja
When I play Leaf Shield Mega Man, I play Greeninja (although, Slash Claw Mega Man resembles it more)
When I use Default Mega Man, I just play Default Ninja
I don't use either of these often, but when play Top Spin Mega Man, I play Black Ninja (personally, I wish they used his actual shiny color from X & Y)
Pink Ninja? I like it, but I don't think any of Mega's colors look anything like it, and usually play these two together so I don't find myself using it much.
I kinda like using the same color with both of my characters
whenever I play them both in For Glory or in friendlies with my pals, to make it feel... I dunno the proper word, but to make it feel more complimenting (and I think these two compliment each other pretty well pro/con-wise too, couldn't find a better team )? Overall, I mostly commonly use the Grey and Red ones, but I like using basically all of Greninja's palettes except the Lavender one, it makes me wanna hurl....I used to main Green Ninja and then I stopped at some point, I dunno why. When he's this color, he kinda reminds me of the Battletoads.....
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