The Petition to Legitimize eSports Has Been Signed

A few months ago, the professional Super Smash Bros. Melee player, William "Leffen" Hjelte, generated a controversy after being deported and later denied a visa to the United States. A movement surged under the name #FreeLeffen which advocated for the goal of having eSports recognized as "legitimate sports" by the United States government. This would allow players like Leffen and MK Leo to apply for P1 visas.

A petition was created to have their request considered by the federal government. It required 100,000 signatures in under 30 days to be submitted for review.

Recently, the signature goal was accomplished, and, at the time of writing this article, it has gathered over 111,000 signatures, shockingly surpassing the 100,000 mark by an 11% margin. This feat was not accomplished by the Smash community alone. The gaming community as a whole came together to get this petition signed.

So what do you think? Is this legitimization good for competitive scenes? If you want to sign this petition, you still can do so here

 

So ESPN president, "Esports is not a sport but a competition."? Ha, haha! I laugh at this quote now. If this gets approved, then my life shall be complete. From the day it gets approved (If it even does.), I shall answer the question "Do you play any sports?" with "Yes, I play Super Smash Bros..".

 

So ESPN president, "Esports is not a sport but a competition."? Ha, haha! I laugh at this quote now. If this gets approved, then my life shall be complete. From the day it gets approved (If it even does.), I shall answer the question "Do you play any sports?" with "Yes, I play Super Smash Bros..".

Mom: why dont you make a name for yourself and do something useful?

Me: Slowly picks up controller and inserts smash 4 disk into wii U

 

If ****ing Chess is considered a sport, then Esports should be considered a sport.

 

If chess is considered a sport (as it should be, nothing about the definition of "sport" implies strenuous physical activity) then so should vidya.

 

I'm just saying we already have enough immigrant problems, we don't need to make it easier for possibly terrorists to get visas for something like "esports".

I had to slap myself to make sure this wasn't real...

Thanks to you, my cheek hurts now.

 

It got recognized! Yus! I actually signed xD

 

Dude pm was cool and all but that was a mod of brawl, something nintendo didnt like. The purpose of pm was to make it brawl, but fix all the things that prevented the game from being competetive (tripping, combos, you know?). Now we have smash 4, the near perfect fusion of competetive gameplay and "fun", what the devs (and most of the community wanted). Of course nintendo is going to support TO's for smash 4 tourneys. Of course TO's want to make money, they sacrifice more than you think making tourneys happen. 2 stocks instead of 3? Whats so good about 3? All that does is drag out the match, plus, 2 stock is hype man.


Cencoring commentators.... are you being serious? What, you want? Them to be like,

"****ing **** man did you see that ****ing nair on ****ing mario's ****ing head you ***** **** ****?!?!"


.... dude. Really?

First pm wasnt just some mod of brawl , it had all the competetive aspects of melee while balancing all the characters out to make one great work there, and Thats not including the side content like skins, custom builds and music.it not only fixed brawls issues , but fixed some major issues with melee as well and its the game that got me involved in the scene in the first place, i dont give a damn if nintendo didnt like it.

if u love smash 4 and think its great thats awesome, but from playing it, smash 4 is not for me. it is far slower and read based for my play style and shield options in the game stifle most attempts at aggresion , and dont get me started on ledge trumping . this is NOT a case of the game is bad, but far from my preference, so i will stick to melee and pm .

as far as stocks go two stocks is NOT hype , hype usually build over time, but that is hard when there is only two stocks and matches end quickly. three stocks i feel gives more oppurtunities for comebacks and build hype too.

as for the last part , that a slippery slope fallacy. Just because commentators dont curse, that doesnt mean they will all of a sudden turn into sailors if they could. most of them kept it modest and i felt the commentators were bettercommentaters were better when they didnt have to censor themselves.


Before u villify me or say that im some entitled ***hole , let me remind you that that i DO think esports should be legitamized and treated as real sport and i dont care if it doesnt require as much pysical activity as other sports , it still takes work to manage these teams and its unfair that some players cant play cause some visa issues, thats some bs, but im under no illusions that esports is doing anything that we havent already done as a grassroots community , besides adding some money ,and im definately not buying that " expanding the community " garbage , im just supporting this for the players.

 

Next there should be a petition to legalize PM.

lol actually i would support

 

"Nahh they're all frauds. Raise $100,000 within a week and mayybbee we'll consider it"

 

First pm wasnt just some mod of brawl , it had all the competetive aspects of melee while balancing all the characters out to make one great work there, and Thats not including the side content like skins, custom builds and music.it not only fixed brawls issues , but fixed some major issues with melee as well and its the game that got me involved in the scene in the first place, i dont give a damn if nintendo didnt like it.

if u love smash 4 and think its great thats awesome, but from playing it, smash 4 is not for me. it is far slower and read based for my play style and shield options in the game stifle most attempts at aggresion , and dont get me started on ledge trumping . this is NOT a case of the game is bad, but far from my preference, so i will stick to melee and pm .

as far as stocks go two stocks is NOT hype , hype usually build over time, but that is hard when there is only two stocks and matches end quickly. three stocks i feel gives more oppurtunities for comebacks and build hype too.

as for the last part , that a slippery slope fallacy. Just because commentators dont curse, that doesnt mean they will all of a sudden turn into sailors if they could. most of them kept it modest and i felt the commentators were bettercommentaters were better when they didnt have to censor themselves.


Before u villify me or say that im some entitled ***hole , let me remind you that that i DO think esports should be legitamized and treated as real sport and i dont care if it doesnt require as much pysical activity as other sports , it still takes work to manage these teams and its unfair that some players cant play cause some visa issues, thats some bs, but im under no illusions that esports is doing anything that we havent already done as a grassroots community , besides adding some money ,and im definately not buying that " expanding the community " garbage , im just supporting this for the players.

Nintendo didn't kill PM, it just got it removed from Twitch. Then the devs stopped developing and everyone jumped ship lol

It is no one's fault but the PM community that PM is "dead" (people still play it but it's smaall); they abandoned it because they didn't have enough love for the game. PM was just an example of a fragile community.

 

The 100k requirement to get it noticed is such a stupid rule. It was so stupid that I felt like reality broke around me as I was reading it.

 

Nintendo didn't kill PM, it just got it removed from Twitch. Then the devs stopped developing and everyone jumped ship lol

It is no one's fault but the PM community that PM is "dead" (people still play it but it's smaall); they abandoned it because they didn't have enough love for the game. PM was just an example of a fragile community.

Here's something I said on YouTube before - and something I stand by.
If Project M wasn't a mod, it would have killed Melee. Just like how Sm4sh killed Brawl. In both cases, it's the same game, but just better.

But it is a mod, and as a result it saw limited support compared to the official titles.

 

Nintendo didn't kill PM, it just got it removed from Twitch. Then the devs stopped developing and everyone jumped ship lol

It is no one's fault but the PM community that PM is "dead" (people still play it but it's smaall); they abandoned it because they didn't have enough love for the game. PM was just an example of a fragile community.

i half agree.It had to do with money ( as it always does) . people wanted that nintendo money, so of course they droped, however i disagree that it was just "all the pm players just stoped" . almost all the majors tourneys droped pm, that wasnt the pm communties fault, and all the major melee/brawl players either went to smash 4 or melee. a lot of things happened all at once , but of course it comes down to money, pm isnt making as much money as smash4 or melee, so most people are playing that.

 

Don't tell me what to do. I don't tell you what to do. I'm just saying we already have enough immigrant problems, we don't need to make it easier for possibly terrorists to get visas for something like "esports".

careful, don't make the ruse too obvious mr.bait

 

First of all, e-sports are not sports. It's never going to be called a sport and it's silly that people are fighting for that definition. People should really be signing a petition to have the government issue Visas for e-sport players.

Similar situation... college cheerleaders are injured more than any other athletic competition and because it is not classified as a sport the athletes are not entitled to proper equipment, training, and insurance. Calling cheerleading a sport is not a good solution - giving the same rights to athletes and they do sports is a better one.

IMO this is how things should be defined since it's actually more reflective of what people think of when we say sport.

1) Game - A competition where 1 or more players can win. eg. e-sports, golf, darts, pool, etc.

2) Athletics - A contest that is won strictly by physical strength, speed and endurance as it relates to skill. (Dexterity and hand-eye coordination do not count.) eg. Track and field, figure skating, Swimming, Cheerleading, etc.

3) Sport - An athletic game in which ones performance DIRECTLY impacts the performance of an opponent. e.g. Basketball, Hockey, Football, Tennis, etc.

So... Golf is not a sport because your shot does not impact any one elses ability to hit the ball.. The 100M dash is not a sport it's athletics. If you could push each other while running it would be a sport. It would be a stupid sport... but a sport because you can affect the other runners.

Since when Chess requires Physical strength to win? lol

 

Since when Chess requires Physical strength to win? lol

Chess is not a sport. It's a game.

 

Nintendo didn't kill PM, it just got it removed from Twitch. Then the devs stopped developing and everyone jumped ship lol

It is no one's fault but the PM community that PM is "dead" (people still play it but it's smaall); they abandoned it because they didn't have enough love for the game. PM was just an example of a fragile community.

They couldn't follow in Melee's footsteps.

 

Here's something I said on YouTube before - and something I stand by.
If Project M wasn't a mod, it would have killed Melee. Just like how Sm4sh killed Brawl. In both cases, it's the same game, but just better.

But it is a mod, and as a result it saw limited support compared to the official titles.

That is so not true, it's not even funny. Melee was able to survive the hard times caused by a sequel, PM was not able to survive the hard times caused by legal issues. Melee has a stronger community, and I personally am a Melee player and I don't even like PM that much. It is definitely more balanced than Melee, but Melee is still so much better in other ways that can't really be explained in text.
Melee has the strongest community, and will be around much longer than other smash games like Smash 4, which will inevitably die when a newer smash game comes out, and even if none comes, Melee will always be bigger due to being in general a more exciting game. You should rethink your assessment of PM. I think it's really sad what happened to it, but it would never kill Melee. After brawl, nothing was ever going to kill it.

 

Chess is not a sport. It's a game.

my b

 

If chess is considered a sport (as it should be, nothing about the definition of "sport" implies strenuous physical activity) then so should vidya.

Sorry, but strenuous physical activity is a requirement to be a sport by most modern definitions (especially in the U.S where evo and most other majors occur).

 

Sorry, but strenuous physical activity is a requirement to be a sport by most modern definitions (especially in the U.S where evo and most other majors occur).

Right, because it's not like Smash requires any dexterity or anything.

Wait...





Semantics aside, the real issue here is not whether or not Smash fits into the definition of "sport" in the English language. The issue is getting competitive gaming on the same level as sports from a legal perspective, for the purpose of visas, etc.

 

Sorry, but strenuous physical activity is a requirement to be a sport by most modern definitions (especially in the U.S where evo and most other majors occur).

Well video games are already recognized as sports by the U.S. government, his you are clearly wrong.

 

Right, because it's not like Smash requires any dexterity or anything.

Wait...





Semantics aside, the real issue here is not whether or not Smash fits into the definition of "sport" in the English language. The issue is getting competitive gaming on the same level as sports from a legal perspective, for the purpose of visas, etc.

Dexterity has nothing to do with strenuous physical activity. By that logic I guess knitting is a sport lol. Look, were more likely to get a visa for non sporting competitions than we are convincing the U.S government that sitting with a controller counts as a sport.

 

Dexterity has nothing to do with strenuous physical activity. By that logic I guess knitting is a sport lol.

"Strenuous" means "requiring or using great exertion." "Exertion" means "physical or mental effort." [Google]

So to clarify, we can rephrase "strenuous physical activity" as "physical activity which requires physical effort."

Knitting does not require great physical effort. Skill? Yes – I cannot knit, and would need to learn how to do so. But any effort involved in knitting is not physical – it is primarily mental. It takes no more physical effort to knit than it does to hold a cup.

Smash Bros. and competitive gaming in general do require physical effort – for the most part. Whether it is an athlete's legs in a 100-foot sprint or a top player's hands in a round of Melee, it is still physical effort, with injuries involved. It takes "great exertion" to injure one's body parts, hands and legs alike.

But of course, this is all largely irrelevant, and mere semantics. The definition of "sport" is one that is not universally, clearly defined, and is not fully fit for the development of competitive gaming.

Look, were more likely to get a visa for non sporting competitions than we are convincing the U.S government that sitting with a controller counts as a sport.

This does seem rather likely, yes – but no matter the means, the end of visas being granted to competitive gamers will be the same, and will be quite a benefit to our community as well as those of other competitive games.

 

Dexterity has nothing to do with strenuous physical activity. By that logic I guess knitting is a sport lol. Look, were more likely to get a visa for non sporting competitions than we are convincing the U.S government that sitting with a controller counts as a sport.

"Sitting with a computer" is recognized by the government as a sport, so what's stopping "sitting with a controller" as you so eloquently put it?

 

"Strenuous" means "requiring or using great exertion." "Exertion" means "physical or mental effort." [Google]

So to clarify, we can rephrase "strenuous physical activity" as "physical activity which requires physical effort."

Knitting does not require great physical effort. Skill? Yes – I cannot knit, and would need to learn how to do so. But any effort involved in knitting is not physical – it is primarily mental. It takes no more physical effort to knit than it does to hold a cup.

Smash Bros. and competitive gaming in general do require physical effort – for the most part. Whether it is an athlete's legs in a 100-foot sprint or a top player's hands in a round of Melee, it is still physical effort, with injuries involved. It takes "great exertion" to injure one's body parts, hands and legs alike.

But of course, this is all largely irrelevant, and mere semantics. The definition of "sport" is one that is not universally, clearly defined, and is not fully fit for the development of competitive gaming.

This does seem rather likely, yes – but no matter the means, the end of visas being granted to competitive gamers will be the same, and will be quite a benefit to our community as well as those of other competitive games.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but injuries from exertion don't really happen in smash 4 do they? That game isn't very technical. I agree with you that it doesn't need to have physical exertion to be something that takes skill and something that should be recognized by the government, but while we are talking about semantics I would put smash 4 more with knitting than with Melee.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but injuries from exertion don't really happen in smash 4 do they? That game isn't very technical. I agree with you that it doesn't need to have physical exertion to be something that takes skill and something that should be recognized by the government, but while we are talking about semantics I would put smash 4 more with knitting than with Melee.

It's not quite a fair comparison, since we've not reached "20XX" to the level that Melee has. (for all we know there could be a hidden tech that's 20 times as demanding as wavedashing)

Additionally, I believe there are injuries which can result from playing too much of any game due to the very nature of the medium.

Either way, Melee and Smash 4 are in the same relevant category – playing a fast-paced fighting game using a controller where quick inputs using the fingers / thumb are par for the course – and should, in this context, be treated equally, regardless of the amount of injuries Smash 4 players have sustained thus far. Fast-paced inputs require physical exertion, Smash 4 and Melee alike. Knitting simply does not compare, outside of some sort of "extreme knitting" competition where competitors knit as quickly as humanly possible, pushing their bodies to the limit in order to knit the longest sweaters in the shortest amount of time.

I'd watch that.

 

Here's something I said on YouTube before - and something I stand by.
If Project M wasn't a mod, it would have killed Melee. Just like how Sm4sh killed Brawl. In both cases, it's the same game, but just better.

But it is a mod, and as a result it saw limited support compared to the official titles.

Also, Project M being a mod didn't cause any problems or really mean anything until Nintendo started sponsoring smash tournaments. Can you explain why PM didnt do anything at all to kill Melee during all that time? PM isn't just a "better" version of Melee, it's an opinionated subject, and one in which I think the majority of people actually would tend to prefer Melee, in the same sense that, even though they are somewhat subjective, most people would generally find ice cream to taste better than broccoli or Melee more exciting competitively than Smash 4.
It's the same with Brawl vs smash 4, 4 isn't objectively better than brawl like you say it is. However, in this instance, the community didn't even move on because it is even generally better than Brawl (let alone objectively), but just because it's the newer game. It's the only reason anyone moved on to brawl in the first place. As a wise poster named Teran said, Melee's sn played because there are people who are selective about game mechanics. Smash 4 is played competitively because there are people who are, well, not as selective about game mechanics. It is also because of these people that games like COD are played competitively. I personally prefer Brawl over Smash 4, since I think it has much better music and I don't care for competitive smash 4 anyway so that is not a big factor. But I understand that it is not objective.

 

Also, Project M being a mod didn't cause any problems or really mean anything until Nintendo started sponsoring smash tournaments. Can you explain why PM didnt do anything at all to kill Melee during all that time? PM isn't just a "better" version of Melee, it's an opinionated subject, and one in which I think the majority of people actually would tend to prefer Melee, in the same sense that, even though they are somewhat subjective, most people would generally find ice cream to taste better than broccoli or Melee more exciting competitively than Smash 4.
It's the same with Brawl vs smash 4, 4 isn't objectively better than brawl like you say it is. However, in this instance, the community didn't even move on because it is even generally better than Brawl (let alone objectively), but just because it's the newer game. It's the only reason anyone moved on to brawl in the first place. As a wise poster named Teran said, Melee's sn played because there are people who are selective about game mechanics. Smash 4 is played competitively because there are people who are, well, not as selective about game mechanics. It is also because of these people that games like COD are played competitively. I personally prefer Brawl over Smash 4, since I think it has much better music and I don't care for competitive smash 4 anyway so that is not a big factor. But I understand that it is not objective.

While obviously not entirely objective, there are solid reasons for players to play Smash 4 over Brawl beyond the latter being newer than the former, such as:

• Faster gameplay
• Improved balance*
• A larger, more diverse roster*
• Enhanced aesthetics*
• The removal of tripping, and other gameplay changes

(Points marked with a * are quite objective strengths of Smash 4 over Brawl)

If these two games had come out in reverse order, I guarantee you that the majority of Smash 4 players would not have moved on to Brawl.

As for why people moved from Melee to Brawl, I can think of a few reasons:

• A larger, more diverse roster
• Enhanced aesthetics
• Preferring a less technically-demanding game than Melee

...Which are perfectly valid reasons.

TL;DR: People do in fact care about the quality of the games that they play.

 

While obviously not entirely objective, there are solid reasons for players to play Smash 4 over Brawl beyond the latter being newer than the former, such as:

• Faster gameplay
• Improved balance*
• A larger, more diverse roster*
• Enhanced aesthetics*
• The removal of tripping, and other gameplay changes

(Points marked with a * are quite objective strengths of Smash 4 over Brawl)

If these two games had come out in reverse order, I guarantee you that the majority of Smash 4 players would not have moved on to Brawl.

As for why people moved from Melee to Brawl, I can think of a few reasons:

• A larger, more diverse roster
• Enhanced aesthetics
• Preferring a less technically-demanding game than Melee

...Which are perfectly valid reasons.

TL;DR: People do in fact care about the quality of the games that they play.

Ok, maybe I was exaggerating a bit; smash 4 does have good things over brawl, you are right. (Although as for your starring system, to be honest the only one of those I would consider to be pretty objective is actually the removal of tripping. Regardless though, I agree that those are all valid things that smash 4 has over brawl, although I don't really think aesthetics matter for competitive play) However, it does also have some things that are generally bad for competitive play compared to brawl, notably the rage mechanic and ledge trumping, the former of which makes the game less skill based, and the latter of which lowers the skill ceiling (yes, lower skill ceiling and less skill based ARE 2 different things, if you want, ask, and I will explain the difference, at least in terms of how I use them). Regardless, you are rig, there are some improvements, but I still definitely think that a significant part of the reason smash 4 is played is because it is newer. It is much more accessible, in that it's a new game that many people buy on their DS's anyway, and then maybe learn about the competitive scene. Melee isn't like that, the only way people really hear about it is when they directly learn that this game somehow still has a competitive scene despite being old and on an unsupported system. There are however a lot of people who don't have access to Melee but watch it, many of which are smash 4 players. Some people in the smash 4 community, like you, do know more about the differences between the mechanics of Smash 4 and other smash games, but who are we kidding, newness is a very significant factor in the game.
For Melee -> Brawl, yes there is a bigger roster, but I'm sure we can both agree Brawl is by far the least balanced game in the series (most balanced being 64) and as a result effectively has by far the least diverse roster, consisting pretty much of 2 characters, albeit this metagame didn't really get fleshed out until the end of brawls lifespan, and is actually one of the things that killed it. Aesthetics is something at I don't really think matters for competitive play, although he's the graphics are better. Preferring a less technically demanding game than Melee, that is one potential reason for someone to not play Melee and is one of the things that makes it more intimidating (this also applies when comparing it to smash 4) and you can focus more on the other mental aspects of the game easier, so yes I see your point there.

 

Whoops I accidentally clicked post too early, let me finish.

 

PART 2
However, I get infuriated when people say/think that simply because there is more techskill, there are less mind games. This is 100% false. Melee works very differently from smash 4 in the neutral because of all these technical differences but it is in no way a game about techskill. I would also say that for people who are truly interested in getting better at the game, learning techskill is an inviting challenge, and the game just gets so much cooler once you learn all this stuff. So I would agree that it might intimidate people from playing Melee, but I still think that if Melee came out last, after all other smash games, and it was on modern consoles, it would be by far the biggest smash game competitively. There probably still would be competitive for Brawl/Smash 4, like how there is in 64 today, but seeing as Melee is by most metrics the biggest of the 4 today... That's the only game I've EVER heard of that has done something like that, and smash 4 sure as hell wouldn't be in quite the same situation if it came out second and was on a 2001 console that needs CRT's.

 

"Strenuous" means "requiring or using great exertion." "Exertion" means "physical or mental effort." [Google]

So to clarify, we can rephrase "strenuous physical activity" as "physical activity which requires physical effort."

Knitting does not require great physical effort. Skill? Yes – I cannot knit, and would need to learn how to do so. But any effort involved in knitting is not physical – it is primarily mental. It takes no more physical effort to knit than it does to hold a cup.

Smash Bros. and competitive gaming in general do require physical effort – for the most part. Whether it is an athlete's legs in a 100-foot sprint or a top player's hands in a round of Melee, it is still physical effort, with injuries involved. It takes "great exertion" to injure one's body parts, hands and legs alike.

But of course, this is all largely irrelevant, and mere semantics. The definition of "sport" is one that is not universally, clearly defined, and is not fully fit for the development of competitive gaming.

This does seem rather likely, yes – but no matter the means, the end of visas being granted to competitive gamers will be the same, and will be quite a benefit to our community as well as those of other competitive games.

Sorry playing smash is not a physical. You can get injured by any human activity ever. I have bruised my arm by falling out of my bed in my sleep (true story I used to roll around in my sleep as a kid). Is sleeping now a sport?

Bottom line in order for this to work a high ranking US government official has to agree that smash bros is a sport so that the visa used by athletes would apply. I wouldn't bet on that happening even if i was a betting man. Its much more likely that we will get what we want by getting the government to make a visa for non sport competitions.

 

Sorry playing smash is not a physical. You can get injured by any human activity ever. I have bruised my arm by falling out of my bed in my sleep (true story I used to roll around in my sleep as a kid). Is sleeping now a sport?

Bottom line in order for this to work a high ranking US government official has to agree that smash bros is a sport so that the visa used by athletes would apply. I wouldn't bet on that happening even if i was a betting man. Its much more likely that we will get what we want by getting the government to make a visa for non sport competitions.

That is not true at all. As I have said, and you have ignored, the government already recognizes several eSports as sports and their players as athletes: League of Legends, Dota 2, CS:GO, and maybe a couple more. So your logic fails.

 

Sorry playing smash is not a physical. You can get injured by any human activity ever. I have bruised my arm by falling out of my bed in my sleep (true story I used to roll around in my sleep as a kid). Is sleeping now a sport?

Bottom line in order for this to work a high ranking US government official has to agree that smash bros is a sport so that the visa used by athletes would apply. I wouldn't bet on that happening even if i was a betting man. Its much more likely that we will get what we want by getting the government to make a visa for non sport competitions.

Also, it is common for Melee players to get injuries. THE ACTIVITY IS STRENUOUS ENOUGH TO EXPECT IT TO CAUSE CERTAIN INJURIES.