Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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dont be a *****
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"The One Inch Punch" A Mii Brawler Insta KO Tech
- Thread starter Jigglymaster
- Start date
Djent
Smash Champion
So I guess the question now (as @Fly_Amanita already mentioned) is "what kind of combos can Brawler set up off of downwards vectoring?" Because this is scary enough that those other combos might as well be guaranteed.
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Out of d-throw?
If you know this is coming, you can DI the throw any way you fancy, and then hold down afterwards in-case.
Again, this only matters for Jigglypuff (and maybe Rosalina) at 0-30% in normal situations. Everyone else could care less about Brawler hitting them with a non-lethal 3% throw followup. He wouldn't even try. (If he does an up-b on anyone else, he's actually trying to land the whole thing for damage!)
I discovered this back on November 3rd. I posted a video of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OWx9TtE-ZE&list=UULTwlz7yAzcZ0BsH-1pU0cw
I discovered this back on November 3rd and posted a video of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OWx9TtE-ZE&list=UULTwlz7yAzcZ0BsH-1pU0cw
leafbarrett
Smash Lord
If the move was intended to always have the follow-up punches hit, I think that may be exactly why it has such high knockback: because the lightning looks cool.
Any thoughts on if this is going to be patched with 1.0.4?
I put it in the realms of possibility since I am very sure some kind of Nintendo reps keep an eye on Smashboards (and other sites) since at least back in Brawl's beginnings (I and the others who demo'd Brawl pre-release pointed out some things that coincidentally were changed and the same seemed to have happened with the latest demo).
If it is left alone then we can assume it is supposed to function as programmed.
If it is changed we can assume it was an oversight and get on with Brawling as usual.
I just hope the Piston Punch itself doesn't get nerfed in doing so, as it is a good move that is one of the few reliable ways for the Brawler to set up for a KO - the only other ways I get KO's is by good reads with F-Smash, U-Smash, or one of the other hard-hitting specials, (unless I Stage-guard which is generally good for all characters), as the F-Air slingspike is just too much of a niche situation most of the time.
I put it in the realms of possibility since I am very sure some kind of Nintendo reps keep an eye on Smashboards (and other sites) since at least back in Brawl's beginnings (I and the others who demo'd Brawl pre-release pointed out some things that coincidentally were changed and the same seemed to have happened with the latest demo).
If it is left alone then we can assume it is supposed to function as programmed.
If it is changed we can assume it was an oversight and get on with Brawling as usual.
I just hope the Piston Punch itself doesn't get nerfed in doing so, as it is a good move that is one of the few reliable ways for the Brawler to set up for a KO - the only other ways I get KO's is by good reads with F-Smash, U-Smash, or one of the other hard-hitting specials, (unless I Stage-guard which is generally good for all characters), as the F-Air slingspike is just too much of a niche situation most of the time.
Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
From what I've heard in the competitive character impressions thread, It's still in the game along with moves like Palutena's Infinite lightweight trick. This patch has prolly been in the works for a while just because of the Wii U version, these recent things such as the one inch punch have just recently been publicly discovered so it makes sense why it isn't out.
However, Wario's Wectoring is said to be gone I think, does that mean vectoring is gone too? Because if so, may the lord have mercy on everyone who fights Mii Brawler.
Btw I'm pretty certain that if the Piston Punch receives a patch, it will only be for the One Inch punch, not the move itself. Nintendo only seems to be changing tiny things so far such as glitches and increasing Luma's spawn time. Other than that, they haven't really tampered with other moves. So I wouldn't worry. I'd be more concerned about Mii Brawler getting banned if Vectoring is gone for making him too overpowered. (seriously, that is like his only weakness.)
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MrGame&Rock
Smash Ace
If the one-inch punch and vectoring are both removed, will Mii Brawler get a net buff from that? Or is vectoring his only weakness just because of the One Inch Punch?
Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
It would be more of a buff. The one inch punch has only been useful on half of the cast. Without Vectoring, the Piston Punch in itself will kill the entire cast much quicker than before, due to the fact that players have so much time to vector it.
Assuming Vectoring is gone, we can kill Bowser at 50% from a grab on YI Brawl's platform.
So yeah, we're trading a gimmick for a direct buff. I'll take that.
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MrGame&Rock
Smash Ace
This may be the wrong thread to talk about this, but Im also curious as to what the removal of vectoring will do to the Smash 4 scene overall.
BigLord
Smash Lord
They can. But the Piston Punch is a great move (and actually not cheap at all) by itself, and it would be a shame to ban it.
If we do ban Piston Punch (and honestly, I don't think we should atm), is has to be for this reason:
"The move is clearly bugged, and it is banned while we wait for it to be fixed."
We will not ban it for any other wishy-washy slippery-slope reasons.
"The move is clearly bugged, and it is banned while we wait for it to be fixed."
We will not ban it for any other wishy-washy slippery-slope reasons.
Yes, there is not just any reason, but very solid and strong reasoning to not ban ANYTHING (including Custom Moves):
Bans require a proof.
What is a proof? Compelling evidence, that which is founded on logical reasoning entailing a valid conclusion.
To understand this on a deeper level is to really delve into philosophy and most importantly Logic.
But to keep it simple: If you see someone say something should be banned, call them out on it: What proof do you have that it meets the ban criteria: Enforceable, Identifiable, Warranted (see Sirlin's Playing to Win).
If they cannot reasonably make a case for ban then they will usually (in my experience) insult you, tell you you are wrong, and run away (they may even try to call the mods on you). You've won.
Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
Customs got banned at KTAR, and will most likely be banned at APEX. So I guess this is the end, it was a bad idea to main this character in the first place.
I hope this move gets patched so at the very least it will have a chance to be viable again one day.
I hope this move gets patched so at the very least it will have a chance to be viable again one day.
EpixAura
Smash Journeyman
Messed around with this a little bit and found out that it seems to be affected by rage, so even characters that normally wouldn't have to worry about this can be killed when Mii Brawler is at higher percents. That's silly.
This is so embarassing for our community.
MrGame&Rock
Smash Ace
hmm... we should test to see how much rage is needed for certain KOs off a down/up throw (with and/or without vectoring) off of certain platforms, like the ones in Battlefield or the one in Yoshi's Island. This is an interesting development
Hm, this is the case it looks like.
Get me in contact with the person who called for a ban on "Customs" (whatever that means). I will reason with them.
I am a person who believes reason and truth prevails, if your TOs are reasonable I can make a case for them to lift the ban or accept that their call is anti-competitive.
Or maybe point them to this discussion where I put in my 2 cents:
http://smashboards.com/threads/competitive-smash-ruleset-discussion.368605/page-13
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Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
LiteralGrill
Smokin' Hot~
Why must our community be so bad and have knee jerk reactions to anything new? The backminded way the community acts at times is silly. Seriously, if it turns out Apex wont have customs I will somehow organize my own tournament series with them on just to show they aren't a problem :/
BigLord
Smash Lord
Damn. If custom moves are banned I'll be pissed, because that means Miis will probably be banned too :\
Endei
Smash Cadet
They won't get banned. Piston Punch isn't their regular move. if they do get banned though then i'll be highly dubious. To ban all three characters because of 1 single move is pretty silly. Lol.
As I've stated before, banning Mii Brawler, Piston Punch, or this tech is a slippery slope.Guys we might have to ban Mario too, not even custom Mario. He's got a one inch punch also now.
@T0MMY this might help us
I mentioned elsewhere (maybe around SWF or Reddit, can't remember) but this was not limited to Piston Punch, it is found in other moves and I know of one with Pit's F-Spec as well (KO'd @ 44%).
No matter how many times the ban-happy scrubs end up with egg on their face it doesn't seem to deter them. I think a mass education about the criteria of bans is the best thing to prevail right now.
@
BigLord
If "Custom Moves" are "banned" it doesn't mean the Mii fighters will be.
Customization: Off does not affect Mii.
Another trick with scrubs is to push for out-of-game rules as ulterior motives. Just be directly honest about it and let them know that out-of-game rulings are an extreme case when there is something that completely breaks so that it cannot even function. If a soft ban is there to add depth to an otherwise excellent game, I'd suggest we'd sooner just play a more competitive game at that point.
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Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
I've decided i'm dropping Piston Punch from my Mii Brawler's moveset. I'm going to prove that I can still win with the character even without the move. That said, I'm going into the lab with Helicopter kick. I'll see you guys soon.
You got nothin' to prove, you're surrounded by people who profited playing Meta Knight in Brawl and probably abused Jigg's U-Throw => Rest whenever possible. Just letting you know I believe in you.
I'm taking the other route; I mained Pichu and E-Tier R.O.B. long enough to not care if a character I like to play finally happens to be good after over a decade of Smashing.
Dedede chaingrabs, Mach Tornado/Shuttle Loop mechanics abuse, ridiculous infinites out of footstools, etc. makes me really not give a hoot if I abuse one mechanic out of the countless many more broken ones used against me ;^D
But if it's something you gotta do for yourself then I wish you the best of luck!
Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
I'll talk to you privately about what I've already discovered. Mii Brawler can be saved.
Rojo Espada
Smash Cadet
Holy balls, that's ridiculous.
I'm pretty sure that the first punch having THAT much knockback wasn't on purpose.
I'm pretty sure that the first punch having THAT much knockback wasn't on purpose.
BigLord
Smash Lord
But Custom Moves are an integral part of the Miis, anyway... For example, I can't imagine playing Mii Brawler without Feint Jump anymore. It's incredible for horizontal recovery, it REALLY changes up his game. Taking it away means seriously crippling his recovery.@
If "Custom Moves" are "banned" it doesn't mean the Mii fighters will be.
Customization: Off does not affect Mii.
(I'm only worried because I really REALLY don't want to play a Mii with a default 1111 moveset)
Well, this said, I could even say the same about Palutena, too. Her default moveset is kinda... eeeh.
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There's no reasonable way a TO could "ban" you into using the default 1111 moveset - that's not a ban that's just a ridiculous overreach of authority! The TO only has authority to make decisive calls on THE TOURNAMENT (that would be brackets and attendees playing their matches and the like). The TO has no authority over the game unless it directly impacts their tournament organizing (for instance, they could ban New Pork City due to time constraints it would cause on running the event if players were using it). Either ban the character, the technique, or the move, but something like that would be erring on the ridiculous side (let them know they can talk to me about it if it comes down to that).
Although I think TO's should be held accountable more than they generally are. As for myself, if I so much as sneeze funny some of my more ornery attendees will jump all over me. I think it's grown into some kind of strange game at this point where they complain and I either change things up so there's no room for complaints or put them in their place for being cry babies (unfortunately it's the latter more often than not).
@
Jigglymaster
Thanks for PM'ing me, I wrote a response but Smashboards went out last night and I don't think it was sent. I'll send again if so.
Although I think TO's should be held accountable more than they generally are. As for myself, if I so much as sneeze funny some of my more ornery attendees will jump all over me. I think it's grown into some kind of strange game at this point where they complain and I either change things up so there's no room for complaints or put them in their place for being cry babies (unfortunately it's the latter more often than not).
@
Jigglymaster
Thanks for PM'ing me, I wrote a response but Smashboards went out last night and I don't think it was sent. I'll send again if so.
Unknownkid
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2014
- Messages
- 1,073
Oh...so is this the reason Dapuffster sort of abuse Piston Punch or was he really trying to get Nairo to respect the move? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6UmzRqvvcA
Anyways, since the move has a Fixed Knockback, how does it fair against a Counter?
Anyways, since the move has a Fixed Knockback, how does it fair against a Counter?
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Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
Robin is too heavy for it to kill from a down throw. So I went for the up throw even though he could airdodge it to escape. I was just hoping that if he didn't know he wouldn't try and I'd get away with it, however that was not the case as he airdodge just about every single time I tried to do it. In the end, I pretty much turned it into conditioning because it's basically a 50/50 mixup. Being a Marvel 3 player as well, I'm pretty familiar with how these work already.
As for the counter question, I'm not sure, never had that situation ever appear for me.
Unknownkid
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2014
- Messages
- 1,073
Oh! Hello Dapuffster! Good Match! It was fun to watch. Your reasoning make sense. Were you forced to use Mid Height/Mid Weight Mii Brawler? I always figure thin/short was the best Mii brawler size.
Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
Thin/short is the best size to go with and I was not restricted at that tournament. However, I feel like if they're ever allowed again they'll be restricted to normal size, so from now on im going to only practice with that.
BigLord
Smash Lord
Can anyone confirm about this being removed in 1.04? I can't seem to be able to do it.
MrGame&Rock
Smash Ace
Nope, I just did it against Jigglypuff. it still works
So it was either an oversight that was over-looked with the big glitch/oversight patch or it's meant to hit that hard with a chance of KO'ing at very low percentages if done correctly.
My own opinion is that somehow this attack just happened to have a glaring oversight that happened to be overlooked after all the patches, but I can't reasonably say I am totally convinced this was ever functioning incorrectly. I now consider Marth's tippers when spaced correctly and how it has KO'd light characters about the same percentage.
Well, if this move was supposed to have a special crit attack to it, then Jiggs has another Reverse Blazer situation to deal with (keeping in mind that oversight didn't stop her from being top tier in Melee, so no johns I s'pose). I guess that serves her right for having that ridiculous Throw => Rest combo X^D
My own opinion is that somehow this attack just happened to have a glaring oversight that happened to be overlooked after all the patches, but I can't reasonably say I am totally convinced this was ever functioning incorrectly. I now consider Marth's tippers when spaced correctly and how it has KO'd light characters about the same percentage.
Well, if this move was supposed to have a special crit attack to it, then Jiggs has another Reverse Blazer situation to deal with (keeping in mind that oversight didn't stop her from being top tier in Melee, so no johns I s'pose). I guess that serves her right for having that ridiculous Throw => Rest combo X^D