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I know I'm a little late, but I wanted to apologize for bringing up the unsubstantiated RosalinaX rumor. See, I didn't mean to, really. I didn't even understand what it was. I had heard a lot of talk about a rumored roster size, and simply asked if it was part of this rumor. I was informed that it was a seperate rumor from this supposed leak, and at that point I should have dropped it instead of continuing to speculate on it. I didn't see anything on it in the OP, but I wasn't sure if the OP was outdated or if the rumor was even credible... So I asked.
So for helping to derail this thread, I am sorry. At least I understand now the full parameters of this thread, and know now how to spot other rumors not worth discussing.
That said, wow, this thread has really gone to pot, haha... Eh.
Do you guys think that the Villager argument (doesn't fit in as a fighter) can be used against Snake now?
I mean, now the game is really bright and cartoony, which would give Snake a hard time fitting in.
Unless this is off-topic, but this is kind of what we were just talking about.
I'd say at that point, we're starting to go off-topic (if we haven't already). Eventually, we get to the point where we forget about the point of the topic and it starts going to hell, just like the last thread. My hope with this thread is that we can keep on topic well enough so that it will stay up until at least the release of SSB 3DS.
But yeah, such discussion is best suited for the character section.
Because Game Design is never that simple. Ever. Period.
Now then, RosalinaX and Sal do not deconfirm or confirm each other in any way, and I think since we no longer have an official leak topic that it's safe to bring up RosalinaX. Still, personally? Let it die until MK8 is out and we know about the fate of inside drifting.
I know I'm a little late, but I wanted to apologize for bringing up the unsubstantiated RosalinaX rumor. See, I didn't mean to, really. I didn't even understand what it was. I had heard a lot of talk about a rumored roster size, and simply asked if it was part of this rumor. I was informed that it was a seperate rumor from this supposed leak, and at that point I should have dropped it instead of continuing to speculate on it. I didn't see anything on it in the OP, but I wasn't sure if the OP was outdated or if the rumor was even credible... So I asked.
So for helping to derail this thread, I am sorry. At least I understand now the full parameters of this thread, and know now how to spot other rumors not worth discussing.
That said, wow, this thread has really gone to pot, haha... Eh.
To be fair, you can bring up the RosalinaX rumor/leak here. However, like what's been stated in the OP/what Ndayday said, it has to be related to the discussion of the Salromano/Gematsu leak. Meaning that you can discuss how the RosalinaX and Gematsu leak fit together but you can't have pages of arguments over if the leak is true, at least not without connection to the Salromano/Gematsu leak.
So anyways; Chorus Men, if this leak is true, which I doubt to an extent, I can't wait to see this character. I have been pondering in regards to this character, wondering what would possess someone to leak them, it really attenuates the legitimacy of the leak. However, I was even more deeply curious with why Sakurai would actually include this character. As such, I inadvertently hyped myself for the character. I can't help but believe that there is a good reason that Sakurai would select Chorus Men over any of the other ideal candidates. I feel as though he is going to offer a revolutionary play-style, something significant. As such, I want to believe this leak. The good counter-balances the bad, I would be content with these characters (as long as there are one or two others not already leaked).
You haven't necessarily read the entire argument, I presume? I was alluding to the very beginning of this debate, I don't necessarily believe it was logical for someone to speculate in favor of Villager (prior to e3), but I do believe that it was reasonable. Sakurai's consideration would be the evidence, enough evidence to retain the perspective. This was in response to a proclamation that it was irrational to speculate in favor of Villager after Sakurai denounced him.
I was just indicating my original perspective in "all caps" to make it more overt.
I was actually one of the people that saw the possibility of Villager due to Sakurai having thoughts about how he would play in the past, believe it or not.
Despite what Sakurai had said though, there is the off chance he may change his mind.
Afterall, he did state that he could make a player character as a fighter using tools such as the bug net and shovel, but he felt the need to prioritize characters more suited for fighting. http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14333871&postcount=98436
Given that we're reaching near the end of the line of who is "priority" (and even then, there is constant debate on over who is priority and who isn't), it is possible he could revisit the idea (like other ideas he revisited in the past).
So "Animal Crossing Boy" may not be so unfeasible.
I know where you're coming from that it is reasonable for someone to speculate it.
However, I never saw it as reason to believe it will happen. As I said two years ago, it was an off-chance. Odds were heavily against it.
This is why I can't take the "Villager was obvious" argument seriously when used in the (bs, but that's unrelated to our discussion) context of Sal just having safe bets and lucky guesses. He really wasn't.
I've already provided the proof that this leak isn't what it seems at first glance. Check my previous posts. The story doesn't make any sense. People are ignoring the story of the leak's origins in favour of believing the leak because it matches up with their wishlists. They aren't believing it because it's logical, they are believing it because it sounds nice. I guarantee you, that if this leak had characters nobody was asking for, people wouldn't give it the time of day.
A very unlikely coincidence is just that - a very unlikely coincidence. And in this case, the predicted characters are extremely safe. So getting some of these guys right isn't actually unlikely.
And as I said, "credible" and "real", are two different things. I could kill a man and remove all of the evidence of my presence at the crime scene, and suddenly, claiming innocence is a credible claim despite the fact I commited the crime, as there is no evidence. However, it would be foolish to believe someone because of credibility. It is the best mask to hide behind, after all.
In this case, the leak is "credible" to people because the characters on the list not only make sense, but are mostly wanted. So when these characters are revealed, people suddenly think the leak is more credible. At this point, people are willing to blindly follow the leak. However, what everyone seems to forget, is that a leak is information coming from the inside. Until we see proof that this guy is getting his information from within the development studio, we have every right to shrug it off as a fabrication. So far, all I'm seeing from this leak is safe guesses, and vagueness. Not only that, but why leak just characters? Everyone was wondering what Smash Run was before it was officially shown off in the Direct. Why not say "there is a new mode called Smash Run"? Or disclose a tidbit or two about the online modes? THAT would have gave me reason to believe the leak, because it's not something that could have been based on fandom research or market research. Not to mention that a "tipper" and "messenger" relationship being involved is very hard to believe. Let's just say that if this leak is real, Salromano is VERY foolish, and I don't believe anyone would be so foolish as to publicly leak information about a AAA game on a forum, where their IP address can easily be tracked.
So no, I don't believe this leak. There are far, far too many holes, and the more I analyse, the more I find. Even if every character on this list shows up in the game, I still won't have any reason to believe it, unless I hear a news report of someone being apprehended for the leak, or see a photo of the studio itself, or something decisive like that. It's fine if people want to believe the leak because it sounds nice, or they just simply have faith. But let's not act like it's above other leaks right now. Right now, the Palutena leak is the only leak that I can actually take seriously. This one is just like any other leak.
Most of that isn't relevant. IP tracking? Nintendo isn't the CIA. Any credence led to this leak is borne of statistics, nothing more. Something that looks like an unlikely guess could possibly be a fact.
It's got nothing to do with preference, and everything to do with what's plausible.
Yes, it's plausible that Sal could have made a lucky guess; it's also plausible that he got legitimate information. There's no reason to try too hard to debunk this leak or to validate it, because with the information we have there's nothing else that can be ascertained.
Don't make me bring out Brash the Bear. The DK series sells a heck of a lot, he's a background character just like Wii Fit Trainer, and already I've mentioned him more times on Smashboards in very high-profile threads than Wii Fit Trainer's single GameFAQs mention in a four-post joke thread. He's such an obvious E3 character, it's not even funny. In fact, I even drew him on a napkin fighting Mario one time, that means millions of people everywhere else did so as well because monkeys...Shakespeare...theory...
I'll also call attention to a common strategy I've noticed among Sal's detractors..."If Sal were legit, why did XYZ not happen? Why did ABC happen instead?"
Some of you seem to have earned a Masters in Leakology, and are in possession of some secret Leakers' Code of Conduct, or Leaking for Dummies, or The Leakers' Bible, or some holy document that you can't possibly believe anyone could deviate from until they do, upon which some half-hearted rationalization dribbles out explaining why your secret text from God is still flawless. I'm sure us plebeians who dare to actually consider the possibility that we may have a legitimate leak on our hands would appreciate insight into this document.
They're working on the game. Not odd they'd have items. Depends how specific he was on the items. Just in general? Easy to guess. Specific ones? That gives credibility.
Because we have a stage for them confirmed. Also, Pictochat and Hanenbow had icons. Didn't have a character related to them in Brawl. Only Smashville comes close to having a character in Brawl, and that didn't make it very far at all.
Let's be honest, all of those are not that hard to counter.
Pilotwings has an icon.
Find Mii has an icon.
I still think Miis are happening, but technically the Mii series (AKA Wii Sports) doesn't have an icon.
Like, I don't think Miis will represent Find Mii.
This leak is tomfoolery. The only impressive guess was Wii Fit Trainer. All the others were obvious. We ALL knew we were getting Mega-Man, Little Mac, and an Animal Crossing Rep. "Animal crossing guy," was probably intentionally vague so as to be one of either Tom Nook or Villager, since Sal wasn't sure which one it'd end up being.
Pokemon from X/Y is vague too, but impressive nonetheless. Still, two lucky guesses doesn't make a reputable source.
Sure, it seems unusually accurate, but imagine all of the other people who made up "leaks." For Sal Romano's accurate guess, there are hundreds of fake leaks that went wrong. With all these crap leaks one is bound to have a few lucky guesses amongst it, and Sal Romano happens to be the lucky one.
I have trouble understanding the concept of an "easy guess". A guess is a guess. Is guessing a number on a dice roll easy? It's only 1 in 6, after all. What about two in a row? Three? Getting those right isn't hard, nor is it easy. You guess, and you're right or you aren't.
There comes a point when somebody guesses so many dice rolls in a row that you start to suspect it might not be a guess.
I could guess that Ridley, Paper Mario and Snake are going to be at revealed at E3. Those are all characters with reasonable odds, but if I'm right, that's just like guessing 30 dice rolls in a row and it's perfectly reasonable to assume you might start to suspect that I wasn't guessing after all.
Highly expected these days. Seriously, it was a really easy guess.
They're working on the game. Not odd they'd have items. Depends how specific he was on the items. Just in general? Easy to guess. Specific ones? That gives credibility.
Because we have a stage for them confirmed. Also, Pictochat and Hanenbow had icons. Didn't have a character related to them in Brawl. Only Smashville comes close to having a character in Brawl, and that didn't make it very far at all.
Let's be honest, all of those are not that hard to counter.
Ooh! Ooh! I know! That one quote where Sakurai said that Namco characters don't take priority, and we all know that means there won't be a Namco character at all! /RAGING SARCASM
Ooh! Ooh! I know! That one quote where Sakurai said that Namco characters don't take priority, and we all know that means there won't be a Namco character at all! /RAGING SARCASM
I still hope that this isn't the entire newcomer list, but I'd be pretty satisfied. Palutena, Chrom and Shulk are cool, Pac-Man would be amazing, and I'm excited to see how they could execute Miis and Chorus Men.
Well I'm finally home. I'll take my time with this one.
I see a lot of the detractors of this leak state that it's definitely just a lucky guess, or the guy is making it up and running with it. Let's run a background check on our friend Sal Romano.
Sal Romano:
-Owner of a website
-has leaked legitimate information before
-would lose credibility should he be wrong (yet guesses Wii Fit Trainer who, prior to E3, would have been shot down by basically 99.9999% of the Smash Bros fanbase. Don't even try to argue that.) Animal Crossing Guy, to the average joe isn't a questionable choice, but to the people who follow Sakurai and the series very closely, it was a highly doubted idea for awhile due to his comments about the Villager.
This guy has some credibility if I do say so myself. That's my take on that part of it.
Sal came to Smashboards briefly after the second leak, and explained what he knew. He received the supposed email for E3 awhile before the event (pretty sure it was a few months beforehand), and he saved it until just before as a guess. He claims that he questioned the leak, and he still does. He gets the concern with the fact that Rosalina was missed, and that X/Y Pokemon was questionable.
Let's look back at the first leak.
Sal says, "Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Pac-Man, Mii will appear at E3"
Detractors will say that because all six of them didn't appear, the leak is automatically fake. So it didn't come to fruition just yet. Guess where else there was inaccurate information? A Pokemon X/Y leak. However, in that particular Pokemon X/Y leak, a majority of the information the leaker gave was actually CORRECT, save for a few parts (by few, I mean VERY few). On the flip side, while Little Mac, Pac-Man, and Mii hadn't appeared at E3, the other three did. Two of which are arguably dark horse characters that would have been the most questionable choices.
Later on, Little Mac was confirmed at a later date. That's character number four that Sal's leaker got. However, Little Mac isn't a difficult character to predict...if you're a North American fan. Most Japanese Smash Bros fans didn't recognize Little Mac, nor did some understand why he was picked. Little Mac, while seemingly an obvious pick to western fans, was incredibly obscure to Japanese fans. He's not as obvious as some think.
Pac-Man has yet to appear, but should you deny the likelihood of this guy showing up, you're getting your hopes up. Namco already has a presence in Smash Bros in the form of items, and I think it should make perfect sense for Namco to receive a character, especially one in the echelon of Pac-Man, who happens to still be a major gaming icon. Maybe not modern gaming, but classic gaming for sure. Smash covers all facets of gaming history and Nintendo, and Pac-Man fits that bill.
Don't even bring in that Sakurai quote about Namco not getting special treatment. That doesn't rule out just one Namco character. Multiple Namco characters was never likely anyway.
The Mii's haven't appeared either. However, they still have quite the chance to get in. There really isn't anything to draw from as far as their potential appearance just yet, but that doesn't take away the fact that they could easily happen.
So now, let's look at the second Sal Romano leak.
Sal says, " Leaker has sent a second email, saying that Pac-Man and Mii's are still coming, but there are other newcomers as well. They are: Chrom, Shulk, Palutena, Chorus Men, and an X/Y Pokemon"
Let's look at these characters one by one.
Chrom: A fairly likely Fire Emblem pick, as the protagonist from the latest Fire Emblem game, Fire Emblem: Awakening. You could say he was a "safe" choice should this leak be fake. But that's asinine logic, based on the fact that the rest of the newcomer roster is filled with characters few expected should this be real. Do you expect off the wall characters along with Wii Fit Trainer and Chorus Men (and to a lesser extent, Villager)?
Shulk: Protagonist from the critically acclaimed Xenoblade Chronicles. He's a fairly popular character in Japan (being at least top 10 I believe) and has quite the following in the western fanbases. He's a reasonable choice, but I'm not entirely convinced that he's a "safe" choice. If you want to get into there being too many "safe" choices, see the section on Chrom.
Palutena: a character that has been hinted at multiple times now, is very likely to be in Smash Wii U/3DS. Another "safe choice" but again, read "Chrom".
Chorus Men: This is where it gets icky. This is yet another character that nobody saw coming. This, in my honest opinion, is the only thing that will make or break this leak. If they aren't playable characters (or whatever Chorus Men consists of), the leak can be deemed fake. If they are playable, I find it highly likely that the leak will turn out to be real. This is probably another case of the character being revealed, and then speculators going on about how they were likely the whole time. I'm telling you now, they're an off the wall choice, and their position in Smash Bros 4 will make or break this leak.
X/Y Pokemon: Oh the controversial character, a Pokemon from Pokemon X/Y. This was not highly considered by many fans out there. There are many people who claim that because it was Greninja specifically, that it debunks the leak. Let me tell you why that's bad logic...you see, before Ike was chosen for Brawl, Sakurai simply had the concept of a slow moving, heavy sword user. There is proof of this, and once I get a hold of it, I will add it to this post. For the time being (before Ike was actually chosen for that spot) it could quite simply be argued, that the Fire Emblem newcomer...was simply labeled as "Fire Emblem character" just as the choice from Pokemon X/Y is possibly be labeled "X/Y Pokemon". It's happened before, no reason it can't happen again. No matter how you slice it, it is entirely accurate that an "X/Y Pokemon" turned out to be Greninja. Greninja is a Pokemon that debuted in Pokemon X/Y, therefore, he fits in the category of "X/Y Pokemon". I don't see what the problem is here.
What I'm getting at here, is that there is presently nothing that can prove either side.
You can say it's fake, but that would bypass the fact that Sal Romano is a fairly credible source, so it should be assumed he wouldn't be making this up himself. If the guy wanted the leak to spread (which he wouldn't) that would be when he would go to a mod on IGN or a big name website. Sal, who is the owner of Gematsu, which is a small website most people have probably never heard of, claims to have gotten the information from a separate source. He did not make this leak himself. Why would he? Claiming otherwise would be going directly against the information we have. He has talked to Smashboards Staff after being asked for information. He is not bragging he's getting things right. I could go on, but I think you're getting my point.
What do I think? Well, if I'm being honest, I do believe this leak. The "safe" picks make sense, and don't make it unbelievable (which doesn't take from the credibility of the leak). It makes sense to have a Pokemon from the latest gen, as Melee and Brawl both had one from their current Pokemon Generations.
Don't get any scientific terms in here, because they don't do anything for this right now. It's all speculation at this point. It all hinges on the Rhythm Heaven Chorus Men. Should they be confirmed, it should be heavily considered that this leak is real.
That's pretty much my view on it.
EDIT: Here is a journal entry from Sakurai about the Fire Emblem character:
New work of "Fire Emblem" is produced in the Wii at the stage of July 2005 announced the creation of "Smash Bros. X"
I've found that. There is no information about the character, because I did not know anything, is at the stage of making a proposal
where he was referred to as "someone in the Fire Emblem". "I feel the heavy contrary to appearance from the developer of the original Ike
if there is a demand to put out ", was aimed at rough character with a large sword. The attack for heavy movement
easily dodged, though that painful mess it hits. In the original, the enemies far away with something like shock wave
Is there also situations to attack, but do you accommodate phase and Ike image that should aim at "Smash Bros. X".
In addition, rather than in terms of character of, when you embody a quality of character on the game, will be accepted
out did you think that it is whether to become balance. After all, the character if Tsukkome remains of the original, such as the skill
but I was not the case in any way speaking likeness restrictor is, or get out.
It's a rough translation, but it's pretty much understandable.
Well I'm finally home. I'll take my time with this one.
I see a lot of the detractors of this leak state that it's definitely just a lucky guess, or the guy is making it up and running with it. Let's run a background check on our friend Sal Romano.
Sal Romano:
-Owner of a website
-has leaked legitimate information before
-would lose credibility should he be wrong (yet guesses Wii Fit Trainer who, prior to E3, would have been shot down by basically 99.9999% of the Smash Bros fanbase. Don't even try to argue that.) Animal Crossing Guy, to the average joe isn't a questionable choice, but to the people who follow Sakurai and the series very closely, it was a highly doubted idea for awhile due to his comments about the Villager.
This guy has some credibility if I so say so myself. That's my take on that part of it.
Sal came to Smashboards briefly after the second leak, and explained what he knew. He received the supposed email for E3 awhile before the event (pretty sure it was a few months beforehand), and he saved it until just before as a guess. He claims that he questioned the leak, and he still does. He gets the concern with the fact that Rosalina was missed, and that X/Y Pokemon was questionable.
Let's look back at the first leak.
Sal says, "Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Pac-Man, Mii will appear at E3"
Detractors will say that because all six of them didn't appear, the leak is automatically fake. So it didn't come to fruition just yet. Guess where else there was inaccurate information? A Pokemon X/Y leak. However, in that particular Pokemon X/Y leak, a majority of the information the leaker gave was actually CORRECT, save for a few parts (by few, I mean VERY few). On the flip side, while Little Mac, Pac-Man, and Mii hadn't appeared at E3, the other three did. Two of which are arguably dark horse characters that would have been the most questionable choices.
Later on, Little Mac was confirmed at a later date. That's character number four that Sal's leaker got. However, Little Mac isn't a difficult character to predict...if you're a North American fan. Most Japanese Smash Bros fans didn't recognize Little Mac, nor did some understand why he was picked. Little Mac, while seemingly an obvious pick to western fans, was incredibly obscure to Japanese fans. He's not as obvious as some think.
Pac-Man has yet to appear, but should you deny the likelihood of this guy showing up, you're getting your hopes up. Namco already has a presence in Smash Bros in the form of items, and I think it should make perfect sense for Namco to receive a character, especially one in the echelon of Pac-Man, who happens to still be a major gaming icon. Maybe not modern gaming, but classic gaming for sure. Smash covers all facets of gaming history and Nintendo, and Pac-Man fits that bill.
Don't even bring in that Sakurai quote about Namco not getting special treatment. That doesn't rule out just one Namco character. Multiple Namco characters was never likely anyway.
The Mii's haven't appeared either. However, they still have quite the chance to get in. There really isn't anything to draw from as far as their potential appearance just yet, but that doesn't take away the fact that they could easily happen.
So now, let's look at the second Sal Romano leak.
Sal says, " Leaker has sent a second email, saying that Pac-Man and Mii's are still coming, but there are other newcomers as well. They are: Chrom, Shulk, Palutena, Chorus Men, and an X/Y Pokemon"
Let's look at these characters one by one.
Chrom: A fairly likely Fire Emblem pick, as the protagonist from the latest Fire Emblem game, Fire Emblem: Awakening. You could say he was a "safe" choice should this leak be fake. But that's asinine logic, based on the fact that the rest of the newcomer roster is filled with characters few expected should this be real. Do you expect off the wall characters along with Wii Fit Trainer and Chorus Men (and to a lesser extent, Villager)?
Shulk: Protagonist from the critically acclaimed Xenoblade Chronicles. He's a fairly popular character in Japan (being at least top 10 I believe) and has quite the following in the western fanbases. He's a reasonable choice, but I'm not entirely convinced that he's a "safe" choice. If you want to get into there being too many "safe" choices, see the section on Chrom.
Palutena: a character that has been hinted at multiple times now, is very likely to be in Smash Wii U/3DS. Another "safe choice" but again, read "Chrom".
Chorus Men: This is where it gets icky. This is yet another character that nobody saw coming. This, in my honest opinion, is the only thing that will make or break this leak. If they aren't playable characters (or whatever Chorus Men consists of), the leak can be deemed fake. If they are playable, I find it highly likely that the leak will turn out to be real. This is probably another case of the character being revealed, and then speculators going on about how they were likely the whole time. I'm telling you now, they're an off the wall choice, and their position in Smash Bros 4 will make or break this leak.
X/Y Pokemon: Oh the controversial character, a Pokemon from Pokemon X/Y. This was not highly considered by many fans out there. There are many people who claim that because it was Greninja specifically, that it debunks the leak. Let me tell you why that's bad logic...you see, before Ike was chosen for Brawl, Sakurai simply had the concept of a slow moving, heavy sword user. There is proof of this, and once I get a hold of it, I will add it to this post. For the time being (before Ike was actually chosen for that spot) it could quite simply be argued, that the Fire Emblem newcomer...was simply labeled as "Fire Emblem character" just as the choice from Pokemon X/Y is possibly be labeled "X/Y Pokemon". It's happened before, no reason it can't happen again. No matter how you slice it, it is entirely accurate that an "X/Y Pokemon" turned out to be Greninja. Greninja is a Pokemon that debuted in Pokemon X/Y, therefore, he fits in the category of "X/Y Pokemon". I don't see what the problem is here.
What I'm getting at here, is that there is presently nothing that can prove either side.
You can say it's fake, but that would bypass the fact that Sal Romano is a fairly credible source, so it should be assumed he wouldn't be making this up himself. If the guy wanted the leak to spread (which he wouldn't) that would be when he would go to a mod on IGN or a big name website. Sal, who is the owner of Gematsu, which is a small website most people have probably never heard of, claims to have gotten the information from a separate source. He did not make this leak himself. Why would he? Claiming otherwise would be going directly against the information we have. He has talked to Smashboards Staff after being asked for information. He is not bragging he's getting things right. I could go on, but I think you're getting my point.
What do I think? Well, if I'm being honest, I do believe this leak. The "safe" picks make sense, and don't make it unbelievable (which doesn't take from the credibility of the leak). It makes sense to have a Pokemon from the latest gen, as Melee and Brawl both had one from their current Pokemon Generations.
Don't get any scientific terms in here, because they don't do anything for this right now. It's all speculation at this point. It all hinges on the Rhythm Heaven Chorus Men. Should they be confirmed, it should be heavily considered that this leak is real.
That's pretty much my view on it.
EDIT: Here is a journal entry from Sakurai about the Fire Emblem character:
New work of "Fire Emblem" is produced in the Wii at the stage of July 2005 announced the creation of "Smash Bros. X"
I've found that. There is no information about the character, because I did not know anything, is at the stage of making a proposal
where he was referred to as "someone in the Fire Emblem". "I feel the heavy contrary to appearance from the developer of the original Ike
if there is a demand to put out ", was aimed at rough character with a large sword. The attack for heavy movement
easily dodged, though that painful mess it hits. In the original, the enemies far away with something like shock wave
Is there also situations to attack, but do you accommodate phase and Ike image that should aim at "Smash Bros. X".
In addition, rather than in terms of character of, when you embody a quality of character on the game, will be accepted
out did you think that it is whether to become balance. After all, the character if Tsukkome remains of the original, such as the skill
but I was not the case in any way speaking likeness restrictor is, or get out.
It's a rough translation, but it's pretty much understandable.
Ooh! Ooh! I know! That one quote where Sakurai said that Namco characters don't take priority, and we all know that means there won't be a Namco character at all! /RAGING SARCASM
Either way there is going to be a lot of crow to eat come summer time. Although I will say believers probably less so because by and large it seems most think it's likely not certain. On the flip side most detractors think its undoubtedly false.
The 2nd batch I'm not entirely sold on though. Sal has had false leaks before via false sources, and this kinda smells like one, but it's too soon to tell.
Oh, right, I misinterpreted your post. I thought you meant Pac-Man and Mii as seperate batches than the first batch and second batch
I'm not sold on the second batch either, and I wouldn't get hopes up if you hate Miis. Really, as I said before, I can't think of a logical reason to deny them from the roster.
Pilotwings has an icon.
Find Mii has an icon.
I still think Miis are happening, but technically the Mii series (AKA Wii Sports) doesn't have an icon.
Like, I don't think Miis will represent Find Mii.
Lets not forget in brawl Animal Crossing had an icon, but not a single rep. It helps to boost the chances of him but still lets not get too carried away.
The 2nd batch I'm not entirely sold on though. Sal has had false leaks before via false sources, and this kinda smells like one, but it's too soon to tell.
My apologies, I lost track of this thread for a couple days and fell a few pages behind! I did want to respond to sonicBrawler182's assertion that WFT was the wildcard character.
I don't agree with this because WFT was among the first new characters announced, and there was a definite strategy behind this. While Mega Man was revealed to draw the attention of the hardcore gamers, Villager and WFT were tailored specifically to draw in the casual crowd. WFT takes this strategy a step further by attempting to pull from an audience that is more health-oriented than game oriented. For these people, WFT is like their Mario (I know, that's really hard to imagine as people who've played games our whole lives!), and where she goes, some might be tempted to follow. Simple marketing strategy - you want your audience to buy a new product, get them to follow your mascot.
What the other wildcard characters (I'll reiterate, I defined them as R.O.B., G&W, and Jiggly) have in common is that none of them were revealed ahead of time. This is why I really think that if Chorus Men are in the game, they won't actually be revealed at E3.
Speaking of E3...
Whether I want Ridley in the game or not (spoiler: I don't), I'm convinced from the direct that he's playable. You don't tease a character that hard and then not give your audience the payout you made them expect. That said, I find it very hard to believe he won't be revealed at E3.
Being revealed ahead of time was never stated as a requirement for wildcard characters though. It's just a coincidence that they haven't been in the past. Sakurai literally said Wii Fit Trainer was someone nobody was expecting, or, to rephrase it, a "wild" choice. Sakurai has also stated that he is not concerned with drawing in the casual crowd with Smash 4, as he feels Brawl succeeded in doing that.
Well I'm finally home. I'll take my time with this one.
I see a lot of the detractors of this leak state that it's definitely just a lucky guess, or the guy is making it up and running with it. Let's run a background check on our friend Sal Romano.
Sal Romano:
-Owner of a website
-has leaked legitimate information before
-would lose credibility should he be wrong (yet guesses Wii Fit Trainer who, prior to E3, would have been shot down by basically 99.9999% of the Smash Bros fanbase. Don't even try to argue that.) Animal Crossing Guy, to the average joe isn't a questionable choice, but to the people who follow Sakurai and the series very closely, it was a highly doubted idea for awhile due to his comments about the Villager.
This guy has some credibility if I so say so myself. That's my take on that part of it.
Sal came to Smashboards briefly after the second leak, and explained what he knew. He received the supposed email for E3 awhile before the event (pretty sure it was a few months beforehand), and he saved it until just before as a guess. He claims that he questioned the leak, and he still does. He gets the concern with the fact that Rosalina was missed, and that X/Y Pokemon was questionable.
Let's look back at the first leak.
Sal says, "Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Pac-Man, Mii will appear at E3"
Detractors will say that because all six of them didn't appear, the leak is automatically fake. So it didn't come to fruition just yet. Guess where else there was inaccurate information? A Pokemon X/Y leak. However, in that particular Pokemon X/Y leak, a majority of the information the leaker gave was actually CORRECT, save for a few parts (by few, I mean VERY few). On the flip side, while Little Mac, Pac-Man, and Mii hadn't appeared at E3, the other three did. Two of which are arguably dark horse characters that would have been the most questionable choices.
Later on, Little Mac was confirmed at a later date. That's character number four that Sal's leaker got. However, Little Mac isn't a difficult character to predict...if you're a North American fan. Most Japanese Smash Bros fans didn't recognize Little Mac, nor did some understand why he was picked. Little Mac, while seemingly an obvious pick to western fans, was incredibly obscure to Japanese fans. He's not as obvious as some think.
Pac-Man has yet to appear, but should you deny the likelihood of this guy showing up, you're getting your hopes up. Namco already has a presence in Smash Bros in the form of items, and I think it should make perfect sense for Namco to receive a character, especially one in the echelon of Pac-Man, who happens to still be a major gaming icon. Maybe not modern gaming, but classic gaming for sure. Smash covers all facets of gaming history and Nintendo, and Pac-Man fits that bill.
Don't even bring in that Sakurai quote about Namco not getting special treatment. That doesn't rule out just one Namco character. Multiple Namco characters was never likely anyway.
The Mii's haven't appeared either. However, they still have quite the chance to get in. There really isn't anything to draw from as far as their potential appearance just yet, but that doesn't take away the fact that they could easily happen.
So now, let's look at the second Sal Romano leak.
Sal says, " Leaker has sent a second email, saying that Pac-Man and Mii's are still coming, but there are other newcomers as well. They are: Chrom, Shulk, Palutena, Chorus Men, and an X/Y Pokemon"
Let's look at these characters one by one.
Chrom: A fairly likely Fire Emblem pick, as the protagonist from the latest Fire Emblem game, Fire Emblem: Awakening. You could say he was a "safe" choice should this leak be fake. But that's asinine logic, based on the fact that the rest of the newcomer roster is filled with characters few expected should this be real. Do you expect off the wall characters along with Wii Fit Trainer and Chorus Men (and to a lesser extent, Villager)?
Shulk: Protagonist from the critically acclaimed Xenoblade Chronicles. He's a fairly popular character in Japan (being at least top 10 I believe) and has quite the following in the western fanbases. He's a reasonable choice, but I'm not entirely convinced that he's a "safe" choice. If you want to get into there being too many "safe" choices, see the section on Chrom.
Palutena: a character that has been hinted at multiple times now, is very likely to be in Smash Wii U/3DS. Another "safe choice" but again, read "Chrom".
Chorus Men: This is where it gets icky. This is yet another character that nobody saw coming. This, in my honest opinion, is the only thing that will make or break this leak. If they aren't playable characters (or whatever Chorus Men consists of), the leak can be deemed fake. If they are playable, I find it highly likely that the leak will turn out to be real. This is probably another case of the character being revealed, and then speculators going on about how they were likely the whole time. I'm telling you now, they're an off the wall choice, and their position in Smash Bros 4 will make or break this leak.
X/Y Pokemon: Oh the controversial character, a Pokemon from Pokemon X/Y. This was not highly considered by many fans out there. There are many people who claim that because it was Greninja specifically, that it debunks the leak. Let me tell you why that's bad logic...you see, before Ike was chosen for Brawl, Sakurai simply had the concept of a slow moving, heavy sword user. There is proof of this, and once I get a hold of it, I will add it to this post. For the time being (before Ike was actually chosen for that spot) it could quite simply be argued, that the Fire Emblem newcomer...was simply labeled as "Fire Emblem character" just as the choice from Pokemon X/Y is possibly be labeled "X/Y Pokemon". It's happened before, no reason it can't happen again. No matter how you slice it, it is entirely accurate that an "X/Y Pokemon" turned out to be Greninja. Greninja is a Pokemon that debuted in Pokemon X/Y, therefore, he fits in the category of "X/Y Pokemon". I don't see what the problem is here.
What I'm getting at here, is that there is presently nothing that can prove either side.
You can say it's fake, but that would bypass the fact that Sal Romano is a fairly credible source, so it should be assumed he wouldn't be making this up himself. If the guy wanted the leak to spread (which he wouldn't) that would be when he would go to a mod on IGN or a big name website. Sal, who is the owner of Gematsu, which is a small website most people have probably never heard of, claims to have gotten the information from a separate source. He did not make this leak himself. Why would he? Claiming otherwise would be going directly against the information we have. He has talked to Smashboards Staff after being asked for information. He is not bragging he's getting things right. I could go on, but I think you're getting my point.
What do I think? Well, if I'm being honest, I do believe this leak. The "safe" picks make sense, and don't make it unbelievable (which doesn't take from the credibility of the leak). It makes sense to have a Pokemon from the latest gen, as Melee and Brawl both had one from their current Pokemon Generations.
Don't get any scientific terms in here, because they don't do anything for this right now. It's all speculation at this point. It all hinges on the Rhythm Heaven Chorus Men. Should they be confirmed, it should be heavily considered that this leak is real.
That's pretty much my view on it.
EDIT: Here is a journal entry from Sakurai about the Fire Emblem character:
New work of "Fire Emblem" is produced in the Wii at the stage of July 2005 announced the creation of "Smash Bros. X"
I've found that. There is no information about the character, because I did not know anything, is at the stage of making a proposal
where he was referred to as "someone in the Fire Emblem". "I feel the heavy contrary to appearance from the developer of the original Ike
if there is a demand to put out ", was aimed at rough character with a large sword. The attack for heavy movement
easily dodged, though that painful mess it hits. In the original, the enemies far away with something like shock wave
Is there also situations to attack, but do you accommodate phase and Ike image that should aim at "Smash Bros. X".
In addition, rather than in terms of character of, when you embody a quality of character on the game, will be accepted
out did you think that it is whether to become balance. After all, the character if Tsukkome remains of the original, such as the skill
but I was not the case in any way speaking likeness restrictor is, or get out.
It's a rough translation, but it's pretty much understandable.
I pretty much agree with all of this except Little Mac part and Chrom part.
From Sal's point of view, and many others, Little Mac was a very likely character. So alot of western fans would guess that. You can't say guessing Little Mac was adding to how true his leak was, because so many people guessed him. So he could have jumped on the band wagon.
Of course you would have expected characters and unexpected characters. It's like saying Bowser shouldn't have been in Melee because of Mr.G&W.
Of course I'm not saying it's fake, and I think he does have credibility, but I'm not saying I am 100% following either. Like you said, it all rests on Chorus Men.
Being revealed ahead of time was never stated as a requirement for wildcard characters though. It's just a coincidence that they haven't been in the past. Sakurai literally said Wii Fit Trainer was someone nobody was expecting, or, to rephrase it, a "wild" choice. Sakurai has also stated that he is not concerned with drawing in the casual crowd with Smash 4, as he feels Brawl succeeded in doing that.
Sorry, but I don't buy that. Just because Brawl already drew in casuals doesn't mean you can never use that strategy again - besides, Brawl came out years ago. There are plenty of new casuals to snatch up. More to the point, WFT was probably aimed at the health crowd who previously had no interest in the kind of game Brawl had to offer.
Either way, I think we can at least agree that taking Sakurai at his exact word isn't a fruitful strategy. He's demonstrated his ability to play with words to great detail, he's debunked himself with Villager, and he has a lot of fun watching us squirm over it. I'd hesitate at taking anything that man says to disprove the leak, unless he comes right out and says "Pac-Man is not appearing" like he did with Z-suit Samus... wait, nevermind.
Sorry, not to be rude but I don't buy that. Just because Brawl already drew in casuals doesn't mean you can never use that strategy again - besides, Brawl came out years ago. There are plenty of new casuals to snatch up. More to the point, WFT was probably aimed at the health crowd who previously had no interest in the kind of game Brawl had to offer.
Either way, I think we can at least agree that taking Sakurai at his exact word isn't a fruitful strategy. He's demonstrated his ability to play with words to great detail, he's debunked himself with Villager, and he has a lot of fun watching us squirm over it. I'd hesitate at taking anything that man says to disprove the leak, unless he comes right out and says "Pac-Man is not appearing" like he did with Z-suit Samus... wait, nevermind.
Okay, that last sentence is the only one that get's me: If he goes right afterwards "Just kidding, Pac Man is playable right after, then yeah.
[Dissapears into Time Vortex]
Sorry, but I don't buy that. Just because Brawl already drew in casuals doesn't mean you can never use that strategy again - besides, Brawl came out years ago. There are plenty of new casuals to snatch up. More to the point, WFT was probably aimed at the health crowd who previously had no interest in the kind of game Brawl had to offer.
Either way, I think we can at least agree that taking Sakurai at his exact word isn't a fruitful strategy. He's demonstrated his ability to play with words to great detail, he's debunked himself with Villager, and he has a lot of fun watching us squirm over it. I'd hesitate at taking anything that man says to disprove the leak, unless he comes right out and says "Pac-Man is not appearing" like he did with Z-suit Samus... wait, nevermind.
...I wasn't disproving the leak on that post, and my main points on not believing it have had nothing to do with what Sakurai said.
Also, your logic makes no sense. So just because Wii Fit Trainer is in the game, health nuts (who probably don't play video games other than ones involving moving your body) are going to suddenly stay inside and play Smash? I'd wager they'd remain outside jogging, or lifting weights in the gym.
Health nuts don't like Wii Fit because of the Trainer, they like it because it's actually useful as a workout program. And I think I can take Sakurai's word on a design philosophy, which he was not vague on. He's actively trying to make this a sharper game than Brawl because people who started with Brawl are now well accustomed to the game.
I really want to know why so many people are "choosing sides" with this leak. There's a good chance it's real, there's a good chance it isn't.
There's no way to determine anything else from the information we have and literally nothing left to discuss.
I really want to know why so many people are "choosing sides" with this leak. There's a good chance it's real, there's a good chance it isn't.
There's no way to determine anything else from the information we have and literally nothing left to discuss.
The only reason we have sides is because people pre-maturely made this leak out to be much more than it is. Lots of people, including sites like IGN, tried to treat the leak as if it is undoubtedly real based on factors that have no influence on it's legitimacy.
This leak really shouldn't be "above" other leaks, let alone be getting it's own topics like this. People have cried "IT'S DEFINITELY REAL" pre-maturely. People who are treating it like any other "leak" are not acting pre-maturely at all, they're just treating it as all leaks without great evidence should be treated. But the people saying it's real are imagining reasons to mark it as "logical" and ignoring fundamental reasons for it being fake.
The Palutena screenshots leak is above other leaks because it had convincing evidence behind it. It's even had people try to claim they faked it to "disprove" it, only to be found out. That leak had reason to be discussed.
This leak has had literally nothing to put it above other leaks. But for some reason, people are putting it above other leaks. It's just a half vague list, with a vague and nonsensical origin story.
I'm of the belief that this topic should never have been made to begin with, because it really is no more real than any other leak. As far as has been proven. If this leak is truly real, Salromano and his tipper will come out and give decisive evidence. Until then, it's just like another "my uncle's friend who works at Nintendo" cliché.
Well... that's not quite true, is it? There's a reason this leak has its own thread.
The thing that puts it above other leaks is that a bunch of what the guy said actually came true. Of every "leak" we've seen this past year, this is the only time that's happened. As most people see it, this leak is plausible. You don't need to believe it to realise that. Be objective.
Well... that's not quite true, is it? There's a reason this leak has its own thread.
The thing that puts it above other leaks is that a bunch of what the guy said actually came true. Of every "leak" we've seen this past year, this is the only time that's happened. As most people see it, this leak is plausible. You don't need to believe it to realise that. Be objective.
