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Q&A The Official Technical Issues Q&A thread (TV's, Controllers, gamecubes, etc)

DeadLastClown

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
153
Location
Canada
Do you absolutely have to use a wired controller during a tournament? I have a wave bird that I'm really comfortable with and it handles really well. I do have a somewhat shoddy old controller that I could bring. Should I bring both just in case?
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
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Location
Toronto, Ontario
I brought a wavebird to my first tourney. No one cared. People say it messes up other non-wired controllers but no one else brings them. First time or so is fine, you should get a good wired one though. There's always talk of batteries running out or losing your connector and the wired controllers are more comfortable usually.

So yeah, don't worry about bringing it but you should get another one if you plan to go these often and get competitive. Wave bird though is pretty much the only reliable wireless controller, if you had anything else it'd be bad and if it had things like turbo the TO might not let it be used in singles.
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Location
Toronto, Ontario
If I play on an HD tv in 480i (interlaced) rather than 480p while using component cables, is it still upscaling? I mean, I've seen the difference between the two and playing it in interlaced mode looks like SD.
 

Fizzi

Smash Ace
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Feb 14, 2008
Messages
802
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
FIZZI#36
If I play on an HD tv in 480i (interlaced) rather than 480p while using component cables, is it still upscaling? I mean, I've seen the difference between the two and playing it in interlaced mode looks like SD.
I would assume that if you do that, you're simply making your TV deinterlace the signal instead of it already being deinterlaced from the source. I would guess that in this case, you would get more lag unless your TV's deinterlacing processing is extremely fast.

In short the output should look the same but your TV will be doing more work.
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
This thread might be relevant in terms of fast HDTV's:

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sub-1-frame-hdtv-monitor-input-lag-database.145141/

It's a list of sub-1 frame HDTV's from SD (I think). If I were in the market for a TV I might buy one of these.
Most of those are tested in 1080P though. 720P -> 1080P may not be a significant add-on of lag, but 480P (assuming you're running Melee in Progressive Scan) -> 1080 is a huge upscale that will tack on extra lag.
 

Fizzi

Smash Ace
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Messages
802
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FIZZI#36
Most of those are tested in 1080P though. 720P -> 1080P may not be a significant add-on of lag, but 480P (assuming you're running Melee in Progressive Scan) -> 1080 is a huge upscale that will tack on extra lag.
Where did you see what the input was? I looked for it briefly and couldn't find it.
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
Just look at the models and the advertised resolution is often the native one. In fact I don't even think the "EVO monitor" is native 720p (which is the native resolution of most, if not all, PS3 games).
 

Fizzi

Smash Ace
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FIZZI#36
I'm not asking about the native resolutions of the monitors on that list. I'm asking how you know what input signal strength they used in their testing?
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
Oh. Sorry.

Unless mentioned otherwise, it's always the highest signal strength available on that TV/monitor (SRK thread denotes it on the right-hand side; on newer TVs you can assume it's always 1080p), probably to get the "most relevant results" (it's a believably length process). While I'm sure there are results for 720p (the next prevalent standard) floating around elsewhere for some of the models listed in that SRK thread, many of the reviews link back to general monitor/TV review sites that often use PC games and HD-format movies, which rarely have the problem of not being 1080p-native.

For monitors, the screen resolution size is used in place of (480/720/1080p). 1920x1080 is, IIRC, the de facto standard for 1080p.

640x480 = 480p, the highest signal Melee natively has available
1024×768 = one resolution variant of 720p-compatible monitors
1920x1080 = 1080p

I have a first generation (?) LCD monitor that has a native resolution of 720p. Melee does not lag on it (while being 480p). It's a NEC MultiSync LCD 1530V. Mileage may vary on other models? Good luck finding this thing though, it's as old as the game itself.
 

Coffeeblack

Smash Journeyman
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Feb 1, 2010
Messages
337
Location
In dat a**

Geenareeno

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
1,102
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Saskatoon, SK
Just get the platinum one imo. My white one has a bit of issues, and the other one is much cheaper, factoring in shipping.
 

Svetsunov

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Messages
159
Location
Cupertino, CA
so im going to order a new controller online either from playasia or the nintendo store. Just wondering if the old school platinum ones are a better choice than the newer white ones

This: http://www.ncsx.com/2008/042108/white_gc_pad.htm

or This: https://store.nintendo.com/webapp/w...RVvdQqs1rg=&ddkey=https:SetCurrencyPreference

Im only asking cuz ive heard a few things about the white ones having issues and i dont wanna waste 30 bucks
If you're unsure about the quality of white gamecube controllers, then just buy a plat one as its a better deal. Also really the color isnt that big a deal unless you're a nazi or something.
 

ZaXXoR

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
327
Location
St.Catharines
Hey, IDK if this relates at all but I have a gamecube with the chord that hooks into my cable on my TV(not the red/white/yellow), I'm also running a small (i think LCD) TC with 480p, I find it lags abit compared to my tube tv, I was JW if the cable that hooks into my TV changes anything
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
You may have a component cable if it's not Y/W/R composite cable. That allows 480p signal on games that support it (such as SSBM).
 

Warhawk

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
1,086
Location
Mt. Pleasant/Highland, MI
What's the best way to break in a controller so that the control stick is more responsive and less stiff? I've been trying to break in a controller for awhile now and it still is somewhat unresponsive and my favorite controller is starting to go out.
 

ZaXXoR

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
327
Location
St.Catharines
You may have a component cable if it's not Y/W/R composite cable. That allows 480p signal on games that support it (such as SSBM).
Ya I notice a slight graphical difference from my tube TV thats for sure!

What's the best way to break in a controller so that the control stick is more responsive and less stiff? I've been trying to break in a controller for awhile now and it still is somewhat unresponsive and my favorite controller is starting to go out.
I just take a knife and cut all the control stick until its my 2nd C-Stick, like a BAWS
 

ZaXXoR

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
327
Location
St.Catharines
Are you talking like just cutting the rubber off? How does that help?
I find it allows me to make more precise movements with the control stick, ya I cut the rubber off, Found out when I bought a GC with 2 controller and smash for $20, the controlers had worn out control sticks so i cut the remaining rubber off. I B-up/side less often now, as in doing a B-up instead of Bside, vice versa
 

Varist

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
1,603
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Austin
holy **** i was reading a thread about circumcision on another board and then i checked facebook and tabbed back to this one accidentally and read warhawk's comment and thought it was about ****s
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
2,599
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I find it allows me to make more precise movements with the control stick, ya I cut the rubber off, Found out when I bought a GC with 2 controller and smash for $20, the controlers had worn out control sticks so i cut the remaining rubber off. I B-up/side less often now, as in doing a B-up instead of Bside, vice versa
This may not be allowed in tournament depending on the TO. If you cut the rubber around your control stick, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't the GC interpret it as an input that goes further than what is capable and allow for better DI that no one else would have access to? That would only be if you cut shaved the stick put, not if you cut off the thumb grips.

Also, my tv lags, I've come to realise this. I've heard bigger CRTs lag too...like the really big ones. Like the drake's tv from Seinfeld. Is this ture...cause damn I need a new tv then.

like this http://di1-3.shoppingshadow.com/images/pi/66/04/15/20234740-260x260-0-0_Toshiba+61A61.jpg
 

ZaXXoR

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
327
Location
St.Catharines
This may not be allowed in tournament depending on the TO. If you cut the rubber around your control stick, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't the GC interpret it as an input that goes further than what is capable and allow for better DI that no one else would have access to? That would only be if you cut shaved the stick put, not if you cut off the thumb grips.

Also, my tv lags, I've come to realise this. I've heard bigger CRTs lag too...like the really big ones. Like the drake's tv from Seinfeld. Is this ture...cause damn I need a new tv then.

like this http://di1-3.shoppingshadow.com/images/pi/66/04/15/20234740-260x260-0-0_Toshiba+61A61.jpg

There's no grip, when i bought them they were just crappy plastic trim so I cut it off, My friend played as a kid like that and told me it's easier to not go in the wrong direction, It wouldn't allow for impossible DI, just makes it so you can "feel" where the actual stick is, rather then the big fat round part on top. I find my little 480p doesn't lag, But I am a newb to this. And what do you mean by TO's? I'm jw, if I suck they won't tell me I can't use it right? I've never even been to a tourney and I'm going to one in TO saturday
 

Fizzi

Smash Ace
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Feb 14, 2008
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802
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Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
FIZZI#36

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
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Location
Toronto, Ontario
@meds
TO=tournament organizer
Also, I'll be at that tournament too and if it doesn't effect your DI it doesn't really matter.

As for your tv, it probably does lag and even if you don't feel it it's there. I got used to my tv and didn't see any issue, played on a cRT and it was cool because I could wavedash faster and more often than on my own tv...but jiggs needs a lot of precise timings for most things rather than actual tech skill and that ****ed me up quite a bit.

Anyways, thanks fizzi...guess I need to get a new tv for sure.
 

ZaXXoR

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
327
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St.Catharines
@meds
TO=tournament organizer
Also, I'll be at that tournament too and if it doesn't effect your DI it doesn't really matter.

As for your tv, it probably does lag and even if you don't feel it it's there. I got used to my tv and didn't see any issue, played on a cRT and it was cool because I could wavedash faster and more often than on my own tv...but jiggs needs a lot of precise timings for most things rather than actual tech skill and that ****ed me up quite a bit.

Anyways, thanks fizzi...guess I need to get a new tv for sure.
Ya I actually bought 3 good GC controller ( 1 orange xD) for only $35 at my local pawn shop, all feel good, The black one i got feels the most worked in, moreso then the 2 me and my roomate have been fiending smash with for months , i love this black one now so i won't be using the cut up one hahah
 

Fizzi

Smash Ace
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Feb 14, 2008
Messages
802
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Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
FIZZI#36
@meds
TO=tournament organizer
Also, I'll be at that tournament too and if it doesn't effect your DI it doesn't really matter.

As for your tv, it probably does lag and even if you don't feel it it's there. I got used to my tv and didn't see any issue, played on a cRT and it was cool because I could wavedash faster and more often than on my own tv...but jiggs needs a lot of precise timings for most things rather than actual tech skill and that ****ed me up quite a bit.

Anyways, thanks fizzi...guess I need to get a new tv for sure.
Actually I'd like to ask - are you sure it's CRT? I think TVs that size are actually usually DLP. It was a DLP that lagged I think - perhaps CRT's do not.

I think CRT's don't get any bigger than 38".
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
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Messages
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I'm not sure, I'm gunna check the model tonight because I've googled it and there are CRTs up to 50" and mine was made in the 90's so it's not HD...but I have no clue if it's DLP. Up until nowI had assumed it was a tube tv but it does have like a plastic on the front rather than glass, not sure if that could tell you anything.

If it were CRT would that make a difference?
 

Fizzi

Smash Ace
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Feb 14, 2008
Messages
802
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Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
FIZZI#36
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_display_technology

According to this the largest known shadow mask and aperture grill CRT TVs are 42". These TVs would be monsters lol. DLP TVs can be made larger but will lag. There's an item on the list called "CRT self-contained rear-projection" that goes up to 80" - I'm not sure what this is (The 80" is called "ProScan 80690", I couldn't find pictures though).

Anyways in short... After looking it up I think if it's truly a CRT TV (Perhaps specifically shadow mask/aperture grill) then you're guaranteed to get no lag. That said, getting one of these that's bigger than around 34" is a little ridiculous, you'll need some pretty solid furniture.
 

bertbusdriver

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
883
Location
Norcal
Nooooooooo! nintendo store is out of stock of the platinum controllers :'(

i don't really want to make the move to a white controller, and the orange one i got secondhand a year ago hasn't cut it...
 

Bing

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
4,885
Location
St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada
Okay so My controller has been dragging up a bit lately(Since my last tournament)

and the other day I was playing Brawl and I was trying to jab it was up-tilting instead.

Now I havent really noticed it while playing melee because you dont generally Jab too much but I still want to fix this. Any tips?
 

bertbusdriver

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
883
Location
Norcal
Okay so My controller has been dragging up a bit lately(Since my last tournament)

and the other day I was playing Brawl and I was trying to jab it was up-tilting instead.

Now I havent really noticed it while playing melee because you dont generally Jab too much but I still want to fix this. Any tips?
so holding start-x-y to recalibrate doesn't work to get rid of the drift? Or are you saying the control stick physically gets stuck at up?

One of my old controllers had serious drift issues, and even recalibrating rarely solved my problems so what i did until i got a new controller was tilt the control stick slightly in the opposite direction when i plugged it in. It typically took a few tries to get right. Extremely inconvenient to do if you're at a tournament or smashfest where you're switching setups all the time, but it's usually fine if you're just playing with 3 other ppl.
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Toronto, Ontario
You can always try replugging it. I'm guessing at home you don't unplug it much but everytime you turn the game on the calibration can get ****ed up. Recalibrating the way the guy above me stated works too but it's more for if your controller has an issue constantly.
 

Krynxe

I can't pronounce it either
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When I push my R button, sometimes it forces me to lightshield afterwards when I'm not pushing anything. In other words, the analogue on my R button is slightly broken. Any tips on how to fix this?

Also, I'm aware I can plug my controller in with the analogue down to prevent the random light shielding, but I have a triwing so I want to physically fix my controller rather than working around it.
 

Fizzi

Smash Ace
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Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
FIZZI#36
When I push my R button, sometimes it forces me to lightshield afterwards when I'm not pushing anything. In other words, the analogue on my R button is slightly broken. Any tips on how to fix this?

Also, I'm aware I can plug my controller in with the analogue down to prevent the random light shielding, but I have a triwing so I want to physically fix my controller rather than working around it.
You could attempt to put in a newer/tougher spring from another controller. The downside to this is your R button will then feel stiffer - It also might not work depending on the problem.
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
It might be that the analogue is simply broken. If you have a spare controller, you can desolder the broken one and replace it with a working one (from the spare).

It's a last resort but it's guaranteed to work lol.
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,495
Location
Oregon
We need a trading forum or something for controllers and controller parts, I am looking at GC controllers online and they are all fake or like $30+. I have one controller in awesome condition, but it's not going to last, I kill controllers every six months to a year, depending how much I'm playing. I have parts to make one more but that's it.

I have lots of controller shells, triggers, etc., it is usually the control stick housing that fails, and unfortunately these are not replaceable by themselves so I have to replace the whole circuit board.

I also strongly prefer certain types of circuit boards, so I'm pretty hesitant to shell out $35 for what might not even be the right kind.

Right now I'm using a Platinum shell and triggers with a black board. I strongly prefer the board I have to the blue ones, but I'm not sure if the platinum ones have the same board as the black ones or the blue ones? Does anyone know this? What about the white ones? How do these differ from older controllers?

Krynxe you can disable light shielding by turning around the little circuit board the trigger makes contact with. But you might not want to do that, I don't know.

Oh and if anyone is interested I have a lagless HDTV, it's a Panasonic Viera TC-P42G10. Don't know if they make this particular model anymore, but I think most good plasmas will be lagless, probably any of the Panasonic Vieras. Pretty reasonably priced too compared to most LCDs. I don't know why anyone gets LCDs.
 

DRGN

Technowizard
Moderator
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Messages
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Sacramento, CA
When I push my R button, sometimes it forces me to lightshield afterwards when I'm not pushing anything. In other words, the analogue on my R button is slightly broken. Any tips on how to fix this?

Also, I'm aware I can plug my controller in with the analogue down to prevent the random light shielding, but I have a triwing so I want to physically fix my controller rather than working around it.
My best controller started doing this like a month or two ago. I'm going to try to fix it once my work bench is accessible again.

Do you feel any kind of resistance when you push the button down, or hear rattling when you shake the controller? If so you might have a broken piece of plastic floating around in there preventing normal operation (this very suddenly happened to me at Genesis II. it sucked! At least it didn't happen in-tournament).

If not, then when you open the controller you'll likely find no visible problems, and my best guess for the culprit is the potentiometer (what VietGeek referred to as "the analogue", I assume) that the triggers slide up and down. I think this because electronics are quite resilient and don't really break down like mechanical things do, so it's very unlikely to be another component on the board. The electrical contact surfaces could get dirty over time, but probably more likely, they might just erode from use.

Cleaning the electrical contacts in the potentiometer might help. There are specific cleaners for electrical contacts, but if you don't want to bother getting that, rubbing alcohol and a q-tip will work ok (the higher the % of ethanol the better). But the best option would probably just be to replace it, which requires soldering.

I have lots of controller shells, triggers, etc., it is usually the control stick housing that fails, and unfortunately these are not replaceable by themselves so I have to replace the whole circuit board.
They are certainly individually replaceable, I've done so on multiple controllers. Requires soldering; but it's not very difficult once you learn how.

The problem I usually have is getting good replacement sticks to put in in the first place. It's easy to find replacement sticks for PS/360 controllers, but not so much GC. The other day I ordered an off-brand classic controller, to open it up and see what kind of sticks it has. I know people talk about how bad anything non-nintendo is, but I figured for 5 bucks it was worth a shot. Also I'm not really entirely impressed by Nintendo's sticks; I think they could be better (they're made of plastic after all >_>). Also, I recently found these, which seem to be GC size. My main concern is the size/shape of the post that the thumbstick slides onto and whether a GC knob could easily be put on there (though, albeit possibly better quality, they're $7 for one, as opposed to $5 for two).
 
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