The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Nanaki]

Hold on. Wasn't Boss repping Mario?

He was. I thought he dropped him now...

Can anyone confirm/disconfirm that?

 

[da K.I.D.]

dark peachs normall killing ability is straight awful, worse than sonics imo

EDIT
lol the dark was a typo, but after reading it I decided to leave it in.

 

[L33T.Peach]

FOW just showed a little bit of why ness should be +1 tier. lmfao.

 

[Dark.Pch]

dark peachs normall killing ability is straight awful, worse than sonics imo

EDIT
lol the dark was a typo, but after reading it I decided to leave it in.

explain to me what killing abilities sonic have that amkes you say if better than Peach.

And does that shaya dude keep going on with the same post of BS It's not even worh correcting his mess, after reading that, this dude just does not get it and just talking junk to start something.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

explain to me what killing abilities sonic have that amkes you say if better than Peach.

And does that shaya dude keep going on with the same post of BS It's not even worh correcting his mess, after reading that, this dude just does not get it and just talking junk to start something.

I know you hate hearing this, but I need to agree with the above poster. Peach : kill potential :: link : recovery.

Peach is amazing at building damage when you have momentum, but she can't kill. Really. She has one really awesome kill move, usmash, that doesn't combo or movestring from any other move she's got and it's very hard to hit with. Utilt doesn't kill until really high percentages and DI ruins it. As for fair, I hit a Bowser at the edge of Final Destination at 179% with a fresh fair as Peach the other day and he DI'd and survived. Then he killed me at 90%.

I don't agree that Sonic kills better, or if he does, it's not by much.

Until you guys find a way to use usmash reliably Peach's kill potential is just downright awful.

 

[Umby]

FOW just showed a little bit of why ness should be +1 tier. lmfao.

I saw that match lol. That makes twice that M2K lost to FOW. I'm slightly skeptical though, since he SD twice, but it's his own fault for messing up his gimps. In the very least Ness shouldn't be below Lucas.

 

[da K.I.D.]

when you talk about practical kill moves peach has one. fair.

sonic has 4. f smash. down smash. bair and, spring aerials

that gives sonic many more oppurtunitys and chances to kill not to mention the fact that f smash and spring aerial both kill faster than peachs fair.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I know you hate hearing this, but I need to agree with the above poster. Peach : kill potential :: link : recovery.

Peach is amazing at building damage when you have momentum, but she can't kill. Really. She has one really awesome kill move, usmash, that doesn't combo or movestring from any other move she's got and it's very hard to hit with. Utilt doesn't kill until really high percentages and DI ruins it. As for fair, I hit a Bowser at the edge of Final Destination at 179% with a fresh fair as Peach the other day and he DI'd and survived. Then he killed me at 90%.

I don't agree that Sonic kills better, or if he does, it's not by much.

Until you guys find a way to use usmash reliably Peach's kill potential is just downright awful.

I never got on about her killing in general.

I wanna know what makes him think sonic killing is better with that opinion.

Aslo can go on about her killing right now and prove to you it is not as bad as you make it sound.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

when you talk about practical kill moves peach has one. fair.

sonic has 4. f smash. down smash. bair and, spring aerials

that gives sonic many more oppurtunitys and chances to kill not to mention the fact that f smash and spring aerial both kill faster than peachs fair.

Actually Peach's fsmash does kill. Most of the time.

 

[ShadowLink84]

But the world is also not fair because it is not a sphere. : (

That bump it has on the side ***** it up.

when you talk about practical kill moves peach has one. fair.

sonic has 4. f smash. down smash. bair and, spring aerials

that gives sonic many more oppurtunitys and chances to kill not to mention the fact that f smash and spring aerial both kill faster than peachs fair.

Any aerial performed at a high enough level will kill. Otherwise we would call several Uairs a kill move because they were performed at such and such height.

Sonic only has 3.
Peach has 3 as well.

Sonic has Fsmash, Dsmash, Bair as you listed.
With speeds of 18,17 and 13 respectively.

Peach has Fsmash, Usmash and Fair.
I wont bother listing frame speed because all of them (except maybe Fsmash) are all faster and more easily set up than Sonic's.

When you take into account Sonic's epic aerial mobility, killing with aerials can be difficult unless its off the side, which only leaves sonic with 3 moves.
Dair, Bair, Nair.
Fair gets DI'ed so its NEVER going to kill if your opponent
Two of those aerials are slow, Nair can gimp decently and kill off the side.

In terms of both KO power and speed Peach out performs Sonic.

I am assuming that by practical you mean KO capability because if you mean KO capability AND setting up, Peach still wins.

So I disagree that Sonic has more opportunities to kill.For sonic, I believe we shouldnt try to land the kill move, rack up damage (cause sonic does it so well) and then just whip out pretty much anything.

 

[DMG]

Peach kills better than Sonic.

She still kills bad though. I've SDI'd and then DI'd well Fresh Peach Fairs from the edge of Battlefield, with G&W, at around 90-100%, and lived WITHOUT BUCKET BRAKING.

If the opponent DI's well, even near the edge of the stage, she will have a hard time killing people even with Fresh Fairs.

 

[Inui]

Did Dark.Pch say the SBR doesn't know about Peach?

Edrees, Kosmos, and Sky are back there, lol.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Peach kills better than Sonic.

She still kills bad though. I've SDI'd and then DI'd well Fresh Peach Fairs from the edge of Battlefield, with G&W, at around 90-100%, and lived WITHOUT BUCKET BRAKING.

If the opponent DI's well, even near the edge of the stage, she will have a hard time killing people even with Fresh Fairs.

This.

Did Dark.Pch say the SBR doesn't know about Peach?

Edrees, Kosmos, and Sky are back there, lol.

I bet the Wario players in the SBR know a lot about Wario.

 

[ShadowLink84]

No only that but the number of kill moves is unimportant in relation to setting up a kill move which is MUCH more important , even more so in Brawl due to piss poor hitstun and defensive options.

As such while Sonic has 3 kill moves in comparison to say, um, character X's 1 kill move (I brain farted), it would be the same has having none if character X could set up the kill move easily.

Sonic has no true setups and the slow speed of those kill moves hurt even more.

@paris: Thats wonderful, no scratch that it really is not, because the KO power between the two isn't much. Though of course if he manages to survive her Usmash I will certainly agree to Peach not killing easily.
Plus considering you are much more likely to eat a kill move from Peach, she certainly has a better method of killing.
Hell I would surely take Peach's kill move set if I could use it with Sonic.

 

[da K.I.D.]

welll i conced that point then, but i still disagree with up smash as a viable kill move because of its lack luster range and speed

 

[Commander_Beef]

as a black man i am proud

You're seriously out of your mind. We're talking about the natural colors in the world, not ethnic groups! Two completely different things!

 

[Inui]

I bet the Wario players in the SBR know a lot about Wario.

DMG, Fiction, Reflex, and Atomsk, yah.

 

[Dark.Pch]

when you talk about practical kill moves peach has one. fair.

sonic has 4. f smash. down smash. bair and, spring aerials

that gives sonic many more oppurtunitys and chances to kill not to mention the fact that f smash and spring aerial both kill faster than peachs fair.

Fsmash,Upsmash.Fair,Bair.

That's 4 also. And I think I know what you gonna say next so I'll wait for your reply on this, then make my point.

Actually Peach's fsmash does kill. Most of the time.

Her fsmash is wierd cause it is three different attack and hard to be ready to DI.

Racket: it is good for killing horizontally. and it launches you really quick when you sweetspot it., Also it can be a semi spike cause while you travel, you get sent downward a lil. In melee it was like that as well. But in melee the Racket laucnhed you more downard. In brawl that distance was reduced a lil. This is good against Fast fallers/heavy characters. I have killed a DeDeDe at 110-120 with this move sweetspotted. he just got launched. This move can also be used against light characters to kill them well. But has the best affect of fastfallers/heavy characters.

Golf club: It can be a good kill move but not all that as much as a racket. This usually depends on the DI and where you hit with the golf club. That move pakcs a punch sweetspotted. That move usually sends people both vertical and horizontal.

Pan: This move Also packs heat, But launches you mainly upward. This is usually best for light characters to get the best kills off.

While all moves have different affect for all types of characters,the problem is it just comes out at random, you can't tell what move you will get. But the good thing to it is, you will never be ready to DI in the proper direction. So that makes up for it.

Peach kills better than Sonic.

She still kills bad though. I've SDI'd and then DI'd well Fresh Peach Fairs from the edge of Battlefield, with G&W, at around 90-100%, and lived WITHOUT BUCKET BRAKING.

If the opponent DI's well, even near the edge of the stage, she will have a hard time killing people even with Fresh Fairs.

Her Fair is not killing anyone around that range on that stage like that. That move does about 15% fresh.

Did Dark.Pch say the SBR doesn't know about Peach?

Edrees, Kosmos, and Sky are back there, lol.

Oh joy, it is you, great......and here we go

I say I know more about peach than those three, and as for the rest of the room, I said they don't know much about Peach. Thats how I feel about it. Shoot me for it.

 

[Mr.E]

So yeah, I wanna do some character discussion too.

I certainly think Link is better than Captain Falcon, but "who cares" right? His sword actually gives him a decent zoning game and he has a usable set of projectiles. Link's major problem is that his recovery is on par with a wet sack of bricks but it's not as simple as "sit at ledge, throw him off, repeat" since he actually forces the approach against many characters. That simplified scenario is more appropriate for Falcon and Ganondorf, whose Up-B recoveries are almost as easy to gimp as Link's is just flat-out horrible anyway.

...Actually, I don't have much else to say on any of the other little things that popped up. Just that Lucas > Ness ololol

EDIT: And since Dark.Pch snuck in another reply while I was composing mine, the problem with Peach's FSmash being random is that you also can't space it properly. Do her different tools not have different range and sweetspots? People are generally going to DI upward unless they get hit by somebody's USmash / UAir or really see what's coming but even with "wrong" DI the Frying Pan is still fairly weak compared to most other character's kill options.

I touched on it earlier in the thread but characters like Kirby and ROB are only still high because of vague notions of a character's past performance.

I think characters like ZSS or Sonic are getting undue hype because of vague notions of a character's potential which may not even exist. Y.b.M. placed well at Apex but both of those characters you mentioned have very poor representation. Actually, most of A-tier is lacking representation relative to their position on the tier list, maybe it's just the natural drop-off once you leave the top tier...

 

[Gindler]

Peach's sweetspotted Tennis racket can kill pretty well, mostly because of the trajectory you're sent at

and dark peach, racket sends you horizontal...............not vertical (that's the pan's job)

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

DMG, Fiction, Reflex, and Atomsk, yah.

Snakeee and Dazwa know ZSS pretty well, I hear.

My point is that three players who main Peach are not necessarily indicative of the SBR as a whole. The SBR can't claim omniscience because it is impossible to keep up with the metagame of 37 characters for each individual member. In the end the hope seems to be that the collective knowledge of the individual members of the SBR will create something of an intelligent, knowledgeable body but it doesn't work that way IMO, especially with regards to mid tier characters whom many of you have openly admitted to not caring about.

Not that it matters, anyway, because other than the rule sets, holding fancy dinner parties and talking about the latest goings on, the top hats' only real contribution to the community is the tier list itself which is just a list and not accurate or important, because Brawl is pretty well balanced for a game with 37 characters in it and a good player can do a lot with any character (see Fow at SIN).

 

[Dark.Pch]

Peach's sweetspotted Tennis racket can kill pretty well, mostly because of the trajectory you're sent at

and dark peach, racket sends you horizontal...............not vertical (that's the pan's job)

opps? Yea. Let me edit that, i got **** backwards here. I need sleep.

 

[DMG]

Dark Peach, you think you know more about Peach than Kosmos, Edrees, and Sky? Really? Like, I can maybe understand saying you know more than Sky since I think he has dropped Peach/picked up Diddy recently, but even then, I can't imagine you having hordes more information and knowledge than Kosmos or Edrees.

I don't claim to know more about Wario than Fiction or Reflex except for a few particular matchups I might have more experience/a better strategy in (where as they have a few matchups they probably know better than I do). Maybe you know the Peach vs whoever matchup better than they do, but overall it doesn't seem very likely.

Also, people if you want to beat Ness with MK, just... camp more with him lol. If your Fairs are getting punish OOS, then... don't keep doing them lol. Tilts and the occasional retreating Fair, combined with shielding occasionally when he goes airborne, stops a LOT of what Ness can do.

Just felt like pointing that out to people, since a lot of people think Ness now magically does better against MK than before lol.

 

[:mad:]

Since nobody ever did give any answers, Boss didn't drop Mario. He still uses him, just not as much as Luigi. He goes all Luigi a good deal of the time because he can't quite win with Mario. He beats the same people with Luigi that he loses to as Mario.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Also, people if you want to beat Ness with MK, just... camp more with him lol. If your Fairs are getting punish OOS, then... don't keep doing them lol. Tilts and the occasional retreating Fair, combined with shielding occasionally when he goes airborne, stops a LOT of what Ness can do.

Just felt like pointing that out to people, since a lot of people think Ness now magically does better against MK than before lol.

My point was that a low tier character can still be successful in the hands of a good player.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Dark Peach, you think you know more about Peach than Kosmos, Edrees, and Sky? Really? Like, I can maybe understand saying you know more than Sky since I think he has dropped Peach/picked up Diddy recently, but even then, I can't imagine you having hordes more information and knowledge than Kosmos or Edrees.

Well that is your opinion sir. But I can say and put my life on the line that I know more than those boys. Idk if it because I am not some hotshot Peach like these people, Dont stand out like them, and not talked about as much as them or w/e the reason is that leads you to that. But that is you.

I still say I know more than them and have no problem putting my knowledge to the test with this at all to prove it.

 

[Umby]

Idk if it because I am not some hotshot Peach like these people, Dont stand out like them, and not talked about as much as them or w/e the reason is that leads you to that. But that is you. this at all to prove it.

I assure you, you are talked about quite often.

















lol.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I assure you, you are talked about quite often.



















lol.

Not in a good way, it is usually bad, ha ha ha. Thats the How I am seen in this community. *shrugs*

 

[Red Arremer]

My point is that three players who main Peach are not necessarily indicative of the SBR as a whole. The SBR can't claim omniscience because it is impossible to keep up with the metagame of 37 characters for each individual member.

Where did we ever do that? See, that's why I wouldn't like the SBR to be open, stuff like this. If someone makes an error about a character they don't know as much about, people like you come, and will bring it up over and over again.

In the end the hope seems to be that the collective knowledge of the individual members of the SBR will create something of an intelligent, knowledgeable body but it doesn't work that way IMO, especially with regards to mid tier characters whom many of you have openly admitted to not caring about.

Uhm... what? So you think the tier list is totally ****ed up, holds absolutely no water and isn't even the slightest correct? Then why are there many people who are satisfied with our results? Just because you simply hate on the SBR for whatever reason. I mean, it's not uncommon that people simply poop out lies and idiotic assumptions about the SBR, I just wonder why.

Not that it matters, anyway, because other than the rule sets, holding fancy dinner parties and talking about the latest goings on, the top hats' only real contribution to the community is the tier list itself which is just a list and not accurate or important

You're an idiot.

because Brawl is pretty well balanced for a game with 37 characters in it and a good player can do a lot with any character (see Fow at SIN).

So what? There was a Melee player in Washington who totally dominated its tournament scene with Luigi. A character on the brink of Mid/Low Tier. Just because one amazing player of a Low Tier exists, it doesn't mean that the SBR are all idiots who are isolated from the world and only talk about how tasty the biscuits are.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Wow, you are an idiot. Stop spout knowledge that just fails.
Ivysaur, far from the worst character in the game. Damage racking potential is SKY HIGH with Bullet Seed. Great spacing with BAIR, and amazing kill moves.
YOU are the problem we have the community. We have endured "Lolstamina" and "Lolivysaur" forever without any justification as to why they are perceived that way. And frankly, if Reflex can beat out a huge group of people at a tournament with ONLY Pokemon Trainer, than obviously "Lolstamina" isn't an issue.

I wish it were the case.

Bullet seed is actually quite useful, owing to it's fortress-like properties (aka, invincibility frames every frame before the hitbox), but the fact that you can DI out of the first hit is very bad. Especially if you do, it can actually be punished by an Ike f-smash.


Bair is pretty good, but it's essentially ROB's bair that's faster at the expense of range, it's not enough on it's one.

Really, Ivysaur doesn't have all that good kill moves. He has POWERFUL kill moves, but they generally take a while to have hitboxes and are very unsafe (long cooldowns).

His damage-rackers are also unfortunately sub-par.

Then there's his recovery, I'm sure I don't have to go into how gimpable his up-b is, and unlike some other tether users, he lacks an alternative "third jump".

So, there is adequet reason, Ivysaur is simply bad in comparison to the other characters in Brawl. Not as bad as Ganondorf (my secondary), but still bad.

THIS STIR-FRY IS DELICIOUS.

Also, Captain Falcon needs better representation. I think he has a decent amount of potential that has yet to be seen.

And I think that Ganondorf needs better representation. I think he has a decent amount of potential that has yet to be seen.

Only half-way there, but actually what he needs more is for people to get better with chainchoking, so getting hit with murder choke means stock loss like it should for most of the cast. It's definitely humanly possible but mad hard.

(course this doesn't deal with his problem of actually GETTING flame chokes in the first place).

So what? There was a Melee player in Washington who totally dominated its tournament scene with Luigi. A character on the brink of Mid/Low Tier. Just because one amazing player of a Low Tier exists, it doesn't mean that the SBR are all idiots who are isolated from the world and only talk about how tasty the biscuits are.

But... I wanted to talk about how tasty biscuits are! That's why I wanted to join the SBR, you ruined my dream Spadefox!

 

[Zankoku]

I personally prefer croissants.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Where did we ever do that? See, that's why I wouldn't like the SBR to be open, stuff like this. If someone makes an error about a character they don't know as much about, people like you come, and will bring it up over and over again.

Uh, what? I was just saying that Dark.Pch is right. The SBR as a whole is probably not as knowledgeable about Peach as Dark.Pch is. That doesn't make Peach a good character, though.

The SBR claims to know more than we do, though. If they didn't, they wouldn't hand themselves such responsibilities as creating tier lists and rule sets. That's fact.

They might be smart people and they might have a good general sense of the game, but that doesn't mean they know every character. Also, the SBR should be public solely so you can be called out when you screw up. If you don't want to be called out when you screw up, then you shouldn't be in the SBR because you don't know enough.

Uhm... what? So you think the tier list is totally ****ed up, holds absolutely no water and isn't even the slightest correct? Then why are there many people who are satisfied with our results?

First, I never said it was "not the slightest bit correct." I said it wasn't entirely accurate, which it isn't, mostly. Even the SBR admits the low and mid tier characters (read: most of the list) aren't ordered correctly because they don't care about them. Second, opinions are like *******s and everyone has one.

Just because you simply hate on the SBR for whatever reason. I mean, it's not uncommon that people simply poop out lies and idiotic assumptions about the SBR, I just wonder why.

Excuse me? I don't "hate on" the SBR. I'm also not stupid. What I hate are competitive gamer communities as a whole; they are filled conservative number cruncher types who speak and think in absolutes, and are incapable of thinking abstractly, creatively, or from another frame of reference.

You're an idiot.

That's really great, buddy. Name calling does a lot.

The SBR creates rule sets and 'governs' the Smash community. That's it. Without them, though, the Smash Community would still exist and would be fine. You could disintegrate tomorrow and no one would give a ****.

So what? There was a Melee player in Washington who totally dominated its tournament scene with Luigi. A character on the brink of Mid/Low Tier. Just because one amazing player of a Low Tier exists, it doesn't mean that the SBR are all idiots who are isolated from the world and only talk about how tasty the biscuits are.

I didn't say that. I said a low/mid tier character can do a lot with a good player behind it. I said that Brawl is more closely balanced than most fighting games and the space between, say, Marth and Game and Watch should be pretty small in theory. It's not, because neither of them are placed correctly, but it should be. The difference between 10 on the tier list and 20 on the tier list is not nearly as big as it was in, say, melee. That's all I meant.

 

[Red Arremer]

That's because you just doesn't know what's good, Ankoku.

@SFP:
Because everyone in the SBR must be perfect, and know every little tiny bit about every character, stage, item, etc. *nods*

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

That's because you just doesn't know what's good, Ankoku.

@SFP:
Because everyone in the SBR must be perfect, and know every little tiny bit about every character, stage, item, etc. *nods*

If you know you're wrong sometimes, then you can take a little criticism like a man without pissing your pants like you are right now.

The fact is the SBR is self-appointed and creates the rules and no one else is allowed to see how the conclusions are come to or what the process is until you're done and ready to tell us. SMash is a big community and there is no check or balance to what is essentially a hybrid between a monarchy and a Club for Really Cool Kids.

 

[Xiivi]

Club for Really Cool Kids

Can I be in the cool kids club?

 

[Red Arremer]

If you know you're wrong sometimes, then you can take a little criticism like a man without pissing your pants like you are right now.

Uhm, no? I'm not pissing my pants, lol. I just don't think I should respond to you in detail, because all you do is being a moron about what the SBR does, how it works and who the people in there are. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The SBR doesn't govern the Smash community, we just are a group of people who are good and knowledgeable players, or big tournament hosts. All we do is giving suggestions. Noone is forced to use the SBR ruleset. Noone is forced to play tournaments without items or New Pork City and WarioWare. The SBR never claimed to be the leader of the Smash community.

I just want to point out my slip with the grab range of Charizard and Dedede, someone pointed out my error, and I stood corrected. I even thanked for the correction. That's taking criticism "like a man".

Edit:
God****ing****it lol. First post on a page again <.<

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Uhm, no? I'm not pissing my pants, lol. I just don't think I should respond to you in detail, because all you do is being a moron about what the SBR does, how it works and who the people in there are. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Maybe that's because I'm not allowed to see what you do. Education is the cure for ignorance, not shutting up and doing what you're told.

The SBR doesn't govern the Smash community, we just are a group of people who are good and knowledgeable players, or big tournament hosts. All we do is giving suggestions. Noone is forced to use the SBR ruleset. Noone is forced to play tournaments without items or New Pork City and WarioWare. The SBR never claimed to be the leader of the Smash community.

No, I'll give you that, but you give the impression that tournaments that don't follow Your Rules are somehow less legitimate than those that don't by declaring those that don't follow them to be "not SBR approved." There is at least some sense that tourneys that use the SBR rulesets are the only real tourneys and the SBR is partially, if not completely responsible for that.

I just want to point out my slip with the grab range of Charizard and Dedede, someone pointed out my error, and I stood corrected. I even thanked for the correction. That's taking criticism "like a man".

That's not criticism. He educated you and you grew for it. Maybe if the SBR wasn't private, we'd all be a little more educated. Then, you wouldn't have to do basically what Dark.Pch has been doing for the last 20 pages and tell me I "just don't know what I'm talking about" when in fact there's really no way for me to know for sure whether I do or not. This is all just nebulous bull****.

 

[Red Arremer]

No, I'll give you that, but you give the impression that tournaments that don't follow Your Rules are somehow less legitimate than those that don't by declaring those that don't follow them to be "not SBR approved." There is at least some sense that tourneys that use the SBR rulesets are the only real tourneys and the SBR is partially, if not completely responsible for that.

Uhm... yes? If you do a Running contest with say, 100m, you don't want to take the tournament for 200m into account, either, right?
If you aren't using the SBR ruleset, then why should we put your non-SBR-ruleset tournament among our SBR-rule tourneys? If you don't use the our ruleset, we leave it open to ourselves to not take your tournament into account.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Since nobody ever did give any answers, Boss didn't drop Mario. He still uses him, just not as much as Luigi. He goes all Luigi a good deal of the time because he can't quite win with Mario. He beats the same people with Luigi that he loses to as Mario.

*lights a cigarette*

You'd figure that Nintendo would make their top billing character more than mediocre in this game, eh? It also annoys me that Link and Samus are so herendously bad too but that's a story for another day...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Uhm... yes? If you do a Running contest with say, 100m, you don't want to take the tournament for 200m into account, either, right?
If you aren't using the SBR ruleset, then why should we put your non-SBR-ruleset tournament among our SBR-rule tourneys? If you don't use the our ruleset, we leave it open to ourselves to not take your tournament into account.

That isn't the point! The point is that while you can't force anyone to use your ruleset, you can give the impression that the SBR's "approval" should be the aim of a tournament.

Also, way to build a straw man for me to burn down instead of responding to the actual point, which is that the SBR's secrecy is unnecessary and that you believe we should listen to the SBR just because you say we should. The SBR is not credible because the SBR says it is. End.