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The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

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G

GPEternity

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video keeps getting error'd. but don't backthrow so much, marth's forward and downthrows are better in most situations in terms of setup. for snake upthrow works too for setting a juggle.
 
Pr0phetic

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Thanks for the critique guys, most of it was non lag adjustment (aka no dash --> Shield)

LOL @ clowsui, interesting way of doing it.
 
Pr0phetic

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And in response to that critique about too much Fair, Fair beats out almost all of Mario's options when Marth approaches... most low tier characters do (thanks Junk). And not enough defense? Marth should be aggro...
I know what you meant though.
 
clowsui

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ya except you faired the same way pretty much every time >__>; if he were a better player it'd be easy for him just to adapt using shield tactics and also calling you out on that crap with dash attacks or just baiting and punishing/forcing reactions with like fireball, powershield, etc.
 
Pr0phetic

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clowsui said:
ya except you faired the same way pretty much every time >__>; if he were a better player it'd be easy for him just to adapt using shield tactics and also calling you out on that crap with dash attacks or just baiting and punishing/forcing reactions with like fireball, powershield, etc.
Click to expand...
I get you, just goes to show we both have to improve.
 
clowsui

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since multiple ppl have brought this up, i wasn't intending to be mean to you, rukkiko XD; just trying to be direct in a creative way. when you pressed the advantage it was obvious you knew what you were doing on some level...you just need to be doing that the whole match.
 
Pr0phetic

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clowsui said:
since multiple ppl have brought this up, i wasn't intending to be mean to you, rukkiko XD; just trying to be direct in a creative way. when you pressed the advantage it was obvious you knew what you were doing on some level...you just need to be doing that the whole match.
Click to expand...
Hey man none taken =P I know what you meant, it sticks to you harder that way sometimes.
 
Earth_Swords_Man_009

Earth_Swords_Man_009

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Not gonna lie, I really need some advice on MK / Wario match ups

Heres a vid against Judge.

MK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otV8gjHDwpc

Also, heres some matches against Wario. I seem to have a tough time KOing at times and then getting KO'd at some low percentages.

Wario
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx912XlaAKs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mi3Le6Xpo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jntzGXzYAg&feature=related

I personally think that I need to be a bit more patient in my play style and take more full jumps. Anyways, thats just a rough outline of what I have to say about it. Any advice would be fine by mine. Thank you very much in advance.
 
LucarioChris

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I'm wanting a rate of my skills as Marth along with a cretique of this match and any tips ya'll might have.

My opponent is a friend of mine who is about my level, probly a little below it though.


Marth VS Yoshi

Everyone says I'm good with Marth, but I don't know. Thanks in advance!
 
P

Phir3

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LucarioChris said:
Marth VS Yoshi

Everyone says I'm good with Marth, but I don't know. Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
I'm no Marth expert, but I think I can help a bit. Don't use dash attack that much. Use Forward Air more instead, and if you know how to short hop, you can do two Fairs in one short hop. You should also use Dancing Blade more, and practice completing all four slashes. DB is a great OoS, or Out of Shield, move (shield your friends' attack and use DB on him). When you are hit off of the ledge, but not too far away, try to sweetspot the ledge instead by waiting a second before recovering. This way, you don't land on the stage, open to an attack. Practice dashing off of the edge and immediately pushing the control stick toward the ledge once you are in the air until you quickly latch on to the ledge. This is great for edgehogging opponents that don't know how to recover well.(It's called hugging)
 
Pr0phetic

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Earth_Swords_Man_009 said:
What do you mean by this?
Click to expand...
I just called it, sorry I was hyper =P

Beegs vs Judge (MK) Match 1

0:08 - Your off spacing got you grabbed, it happens but just be weary.
0:14 - MK is short, so don't try Fairing at his shield, especially after a DJ, cause you will eat a shuttle loop or tornado.
0:20 - Lol everyone is so lazy to SDI DB4G. Be careful with that though, it's a wakeup call after one successful use.
0:21 - Jumped into the ****.
0:31 - Best thing here is to hit up training mode and get those grab releases down pat.
0:36 - Be careful on how you edgeguard MK. He is deadly off the ledge, and being that close to it you might aswell have spaced it on stage and setup your ledge traps.
0:49 - Do not AD into your opponent, it's not worth the ****.
0:51 - Mispaced & commited aerials are a ***** huh?
0:55 - Really? Judge was way too spaced for any ledge hopped aerial to work -_- You lose a stock.
1:02 - Refer to :14.
1:41 - I saw that UpB from a mile away. Mix in DB1 and utilize your DJ at this point. You lose stock number two.
2:47 - Refer to 0:49.
2:50 - Mixup your ledge recovery options... another ledgehopped aerial?
3:10 - Ouch, west coast DI on that Bthrow.

P.S. - I saw little poking in this match. Marth NEEDS to utilize his Dtilt and Jab to help his approach and limit MK.
 
M

Merce

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otV8gjHDwpc

Beegs and judge smashville

I'll be honest, you had a hard first stock. Nothing I could really pin point...

4:20 Don't overly commit to DB. You'll get hurt.
4:27 Your edge game is too predictable. Judge was just watching you... sitting at a vantage point where any attack-based get up would be out of range. Take your time and observe your opponent. I find that when I'm nervous I do random inputs as flashily as I can, as if obligatorily saying "look what I can do." Don't do that.
4:40 That's better :)
4:52 A bit vulnerable and repetitive...
5:45 Did you really not see that coming? Be patient. Don't feel like you have to fight at every moment. It's your "life" your dealing with. Wait and try to work the situation into an advantageous or at least neutral one. I would not willingly mess with MK in such a tight area. You don't have the necessary tools to out-punish him there.

All the same, good efforts!
 
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Pandii

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SYGUC 7 Grand Finals Wario [Blue Rouge] vs Marth [Beegs] [1/4]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx912XlaAKs
An overall note, when you jump and you see a shield... and you know he's going to continue shielding, you don't always have to fair the shield. You can always empty short hop, fast fall and just buffer a grab.

Does grab release -> uptilt work on Smashville's moving platform? I haven't had a problem landing that one but perhaps the Wario I play doesn't shield it... though I'm pretty sure he tries. If you see the platform coming and you don't know if your up air will actually hit (since it happened twice this match, I'll assume it doesn't hit because he has enough time to land and shield) then you might as well just throw him. I'm pretty sure uptilt lands if you're just trying to rack up damage.

@0:20 Jumping into the bite? Was this some form of cross over? He was in a bit too close retreating a little would've been better imo.
@2:17. D: I think you were getting a tad greedy there. First an unspaced forward smash and then up-b the wrong way o_o Be a bit more cautious when you're in higher percents? He has that forward smash as you experienced... and a fart. At that moment, he had both options available.

@2:28 after the nair you can try jabbing. It works occasionally depending on what they do, I'm none too sure what to do on that one, but your shield did pop up so he read you pretty well there.

If he's above you and you don't feel comfortable, just run backwards or forwards, rolling is slow and obvious. With Wario's air speed he can adjust to your rolling.

@3:01 Again, be more careful. Remember that the hitbox is under Wario and on him. So with Marth's weakness being directly below him, you shouldn't approach from directly above Wario.

@3:12 Stop after the first db if you see/hear it hit the shield, the Wario punished appropriately

@3:40 I play a tad odd, but I like using my double jumps as a mix up when I'm at a lower, non death percent. Judging from what the the Wario did, you could've continued your trajectory, double jumped, faired and hit. I understand saving your double jump for emergency usage, but your approach got a little repetitive

Your up-tilt is fresh the entire time, why not use it, even if it is to swat him away from your head.
 
Earth_Swords_Man_009

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Pandii said:
SYGUC 7 Grand Finals Wario [Blue Rouge] vs Marth [Beegs] [1/4]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx912XlaAKs
An overall note, when you jump and you see a shield... and you know he's going to continue shielding, you don't always have to fair the shield. You can always empty short hop, fast fall and just buffer a grab.

Does grab release -> uptilt work on Smashville's moving platform? I haven't had a problem landing that one but perhaps the Wario I play doesn't shield it... though I'm pretty sure he tries. If you see the platform coming and you don't know if your up air will actually hit (since it happened twice this match, I'll assume it doesn't hit because he has enough time to land and shield) then you might as well just throw him. I'm pretty sure uptilt lands if you're just trying to rack up damage.

@0:20 Jumping into the bite? Was this some form of cross over? He was in a bit too close retreating a little would've been better imo.
@2:17. D: I think you were getting a tad greedy there. First an unspaced forward smash and then up-b the wrong way o_o Be a bit more cautious when you're in higher percents? He has that forward smash as you experienced... and a fart. At that moment, he had both options available.

@2:28 after the nair you can try jabbing. It works occasionally depending on what they do, I'm none too sure what to do on that one, but your shield did pop up so he read you pretty well there.

If he's above you and you don't feel comfortable, just run backwards or forwards, rolling is slow and obvious. With Wario's air speed he can adjust to your rolling.

@3:01 Again, be more careful. Remember that the hitbox is under Wario and on him. So with Marth's weakness being directly below him, you shouldn't approach from directly above Wario.

@3:12 Stop after the first db if you see/hear it hit the shield, the Wario punished appropriately

@3:40 I play a tad odd, but I like using my double jumps as a mix up when I'm at a lower, non death percent. Judging from what the the Wario did, you could've continued your trajectory, double jumped, faired and hit. I understand saving your double jump for emergency usage, but your approach got a little repetitive

Your up-tilt is fresh the entire time, why not use it, even if it is to swat him away from your head.
Click to expand...
I realize I don't use my up tilt that much and I need to also imply that to my game as well as making sure I don't use the F-Smash unwisely. It seems to happen here and there but all and all I just need to play a bit smarter it seems. That's what the majority of you guys said in general.
 
OverLade

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Pr0phetic

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Asadelta said:
Me vs a yoshi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDuOlyT-tuY&feature=related

I know it's in marth's advantage, but I don't really know the matchup yet
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I'm not going to go in-depth as there's no need. To be honest, you really need a lot of work on your control of Marth and his offensive game. You do some extraordinary, random FHs that have no attacks coming from it, you retreat for no reason (this is your chance to capitalize and apply pressure!), and you let him recover way too easily.


I suggest you head into training mode and get comfortable with Marth before anything, patch up those DB errors and full hopping issues. Next, go read up on your Yoshi match-up, and practice applying pressure (hell, Marth's Fair really shuts down Yoshi).

xeon55555 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwrW_Uq26JA&feature=subtivity

How can I improve?
Click to expand...
0:07 - Why'd you blatantly jump into him? Empty SHs are good mixups, but don't jump into the ****, you'll just leave yourself open from landing lag.
0:15 - Kirby is approaching from the air... and you Dtilt. Dtilt has amazing horizontal range, but almost no vert. Kirby approaching in the air with anything other then his Bair should get ***** with your Fair, it's that good.
0:28 - Once again.
0:35 - Be more aggressive on the ledge. Kirby is facing you, so most of his attacks will lose to your fair. Gimping is hard, however, you can rack a good amount of damage.
0:56 - You used your DJ way too earlier, hence leaving you in a simple position to get gimped. Learn to conserve your DJ to increase survival.
2:21 - Getting a little too careless with your SB and DS. It's not safe at all, save it for a mixup, the usage earlier was nice.
2:24 - Empty FH? That's not really safe... you eat the Bair.
2:58 - Recover low and sweetspot, you jumped straight into the **** 0.o There goes your stock lol.
3:24 - Your DB wasn't consistent, you would have **** his spotdodge if you would've just simply used the full combo.
4:34 to 4:40 - Ummmmm wtf??? You let him recover so easily 0.o Apply pressure please! :mad:
4:50 - Your UpB won't beat his aerial in lag, should've noticed that by now...
 
∫unk

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RedHalberd said:
Some videos of Ganja, a marth player I train with.

vs Redhalberd (Snake)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LumNQwmJiCw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWy_-OlUYdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-l97Tj6SXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT91yAphpIw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtBJ5Z-IQVk

vs. Redhalberd (Falco)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVcNIsMtvdg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO64mjVP1Zc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9cCb6-d40c
Click to expand...
• he gives up advantageous positions too much (notice how easily he gets off stage)

• he's not fluid and constantly moving... a lot of times he shows lack of control (ex. not facing the right way).

• he does moves without thinking about the actual situation (ex. you land and shield and he up b's ON REACTION)

• he doesn't think about previous times in similar situations (ex. if he's in a bad situation he tends to roll -> spot dodge)

honestly... he looks like a wifi marth and this is his first time fighting someone good irl and he's finding out his wifi **** doesn't work (ex. sh db1). he lacks basic spacing, does weird gimmicky things, lacks powershielding, lacks stage control... all of this screams "WIFI".

it looks like you're sandbagging/****ing around/going for combo video material and you're still winning.

he just needs to keep playing and go to training mode a lot... i wouldn't play snake vs him if you're trying to teach him. play someone Marth can use his basic game and win like most mid-tier characters.

LFL said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBwv78eeWG0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP-G1bkTUwg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AloZj1N5c3M
Click to expand...
• understand the situation you're in better. if yoshi's throwing eggs at you, and you just spot dodge them, how is that accomplishing anything? the possible damage you can do = 0%. he has lag when he's throwing eggs and you're on the moving platform that's a perfect time to move forward.

• you move back unnecessarily too much. notice how he controls the stage more because you unnecessarily move back. while it's important to space away and jump back, it's also important to seize the spacing windows the opponent gives you. that's why you're on your heels so much.

• you don't have to approach every time with a short hop. marth is fine on the ground AND full hopping vs someone as bad as yoshi. you don't have to run all the way then do forward b you can just dash once shield stop then short hop... but right now you're doing a short hop from too far away which means you're f-air has no chance of hitting. walking is fine too right now you're either doing all running or all short hops you need to combine them.

• you don't mix up your DI but that won't be a problem really until you fight better opponents/characters

vs yoshi just know he can't do anything out of shield so all you have to do is force him to shield with aggressive f-airs then destroy him... you're having trouble because you keep leaning back. you can pretty much land with a f-air and db every time right after and be safe.

Asadelta said:
Me vs a yoshi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDuOlyT-tuY&feature=related

I know it's in marth's advantage, but I don't really know the matchup yet
Click to expand...
same thing as above just know yoshi is a bad character so you stop playing so scared

yoshi should not get away with spamming eggs on stage vs a marth
 
KillL0ck

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LFL said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBwv78eeWG0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP-G1bkTUwg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AloZj1N5c3M
Click to expand...
Because I've faced FireFly before(And he asked me to critique this) I'll throw down some advice against him.

Notice how he never shields and always spot dodges, use this to your advantage and bait him into dodging, then punish accordingly.(Dancing Blade, D-Tilt, Short hop fair/no fast fall usually gives you perfect timing*) Juggling him would be nice also, Uair/Utilt those air dodges when he comes down, and if he's already headed to the ground Dtilt/Shieldgrab/Dancing blade among other things. I don't recommend Forward smash as a punish on Air Dodge unless he's at high percent unless you're willing to take the risk, I saw you use it on several occasions.

You can also Dolphin Slash out of shield on his Bair if he tries to pressure you with it or even Counter if he becomes predictable. Though your Fair should have that covered if you're in a good position, if not this is a good option to space out the playing field. I've also found it extremely effective to just walk and powershield his eggs, then once you're close enough while he's throwing an egg you can dash to dancing blade/fair, Yoshi has a lot of lag after throwing an egg, at least enough for you to punish him for it.

Also your spacing could be better, I noticed you would just randomly throw stuff out there, or just miss the target entirely. It's something you'll just have to get better with over time I suppose.

Otherwise Mix it up a bit, no point in being predictable especially with Marth, who used in the wrong hands can be Powershielding and combo bait disaster. On the bright side he can be a poke machine and a brick wall if used correctly.

Also that jab combo is really fast >_>, I've had Firefly dodge while I was using Dancing blade, then jab me right after. Pretty ridiculous sometimes.
 
OverLade

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∫unk said:
• he gives up advantageous positions too much (notice how easily he gets off stage)

• he's not fluid and constantly moving... a lot of times he shows lack of control (ex. not facing the right way).

• he does moves without thinking about the actual situation (ex. you land and shield and he up b's ON REACTION)

• he doesn't think about previous times in similar situations (ex. if he's in a bad situation he tends to roll -> spot dodge)

honestly... he looks like a wifi marth and this is his first time fighting someone good irl and he's finding out his wifi **** doesn't work (ex. sh db1). he lacks basic spacing, does weird gimmicky things, lacks powershielding, lacks stage control... all of this screams "WIFI".

it looks like you're sandbagging/****ing around/going for combo video material and you're still winning.

he just needs to keep playing and go to training mode a lot... i wouldn't play snake vs him if you're trying to teach him. play someone Marth can use his basic game and win like most mid-tier characters.
Click to expand...
Interestingly enough, he's actually not a wifi player and never has been. But he's HIGHLY inexperienced and has only recenlty gotten better from me playing with him regularly. Before he was used to playing with scrubs which is where the gimmicks come from. I'm still trying to beat them out of him, but mabye you're right I should just work with mid tier characters etc.
 
LFL

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