The Next Smash Bros: Doomed to meet the same fate as Brawl?

[Firus]

Tripping is awesome and hilarious. Yes, I went there.

You're nuts. It's not awesome, it screws people up for no reason. It grants KOs to the lucky. It's nothing but idiotic and used as a tactic to help noobs out. I don't think ANYONE else agrees with you, except for the noobs and Sakurai, of course. I have now officially lost any and all respect I had for you.

Subspace, Classic, Target Test, Training, Homerun Contest, Event Matches, and All Star Mode. Show me any figting game with as such a robust selection single player modes.

Clearly you don't understand what I meant. Yes, we have all of those modes. But they are all bare-bones, meaning there isn't much to them.

Subspace is great, I'll grant you that, but it doesn't have a whole lot of replayability. I love it, but to say it's perfect is ignorant.

Classic is boring, long, and repetitive. Instead of random characters like last time (COMPLETELY random) we now have random Special Brawls. Who wants to do Metal, Giant, Team Brawls over and over again? Why can't we just have plain 1 vs. 1s? Why is it nearly impossible to fight Crazy Hand now? Why was Race to the Finish removed? Why do we have to go through Target Test twice? The only good part about Classic is that it has a FFA, but there's only one, and it doesn't even things out at all.

Target Test has been dumbed down to 5 levels. I played through each level with every character, getting the time challenge, and haven't played them since. What happened to character-specific Target Tests, which are interesting and force you to work hard to even BEAT them, much less get a good time. That's a good thing.

Training is fine the way it is.

Homerun Contest now has the shield, which is nice, but the mode itself is really not that fun. The same thing with Target Test, I play through it with every character, get the challenges, and I don't play it anymore. It's just not that fun and replayable. Heck, the daily replays (of this and Target Test) even bore me. How many times can you go through the same thing?

Event Matches are cool, I actually haven't played them since I beat them all. I'll come back to them eventually though, I beat them on Easy (except for those you beat on Hard to get a challenge) so I could have something to go back and do.

All-Star Mode is, if possible, more long, boring and repetitive than Classic. Not to mention, just like Classic, you have to go through it with MORE than just the 35 characters, you have to go through it once for each different Final Smash.

It has a robust selection, but it seems as if Sakurai was so obsessed with fitting everything in that he didn't put much in it.

P.S. You forgot Boss Battles, which is surprising, considering that it's probably the best 1P mode of them all.

Lies. Lies and slander. Browse SWF's stage finder or IGN's SmashBrosWorld website and see all the crazy, awesome creations people have come up with, ready for the download. The fact that you can build and share stages is a miracle.

What are you smoking? You can make tons of stuff with Stage Builder, but the features (like Trees) take up way too much space, there are a lack of pieces (no icy slopes, for starters), you can't select spawn points, forcing you to put spikes on if there's a ceiling for your stage, you can't use water...must I go on? There are obviously millions of possibilities, but that doesn't mean it's perfect. There are millions of possibilites for lots of things that aren't perfect, and Stage Builder is one of them. Plus, 3 JPEG backgrounds? There is one set of non-interchangeable pieces for each background? You can only have one song per stage, and you can't put your own in (I would want to put in mostly video game music that didn't make it in) I love Stage Builder, I really do; it's one of the best pieces of Brawl. But just like most of Brawl, it's missing something.
Also, the fact that you can share stages via the Internet is not due to Brawl at all, except for the fact that you save to SD cards. The ability to share stages is due partially to the functionality of SD cards with computers and the Internet's capabilities. Yes, you can share stages with your friends, but you weren't referring to that. (Before you bring up that point)

Online has exactly the right number of options for my tastes. Nintendo just needs to servers that will, you know, work.

The scoring system is now completely nerfed. It, once again, assists noobs, so that if they hit you at some point throughout the match and you die, they get a point. Since you cannot switch it from Time, this is not good. Not to mention, Brawl's physics, being based on defense, make it difficult to do a mode like Time where you have to rush forward and attack your enemies. This makes it especially unfair for those without projectiles, since those with projectiles can camp and attack, while those without can only camp in hopes that the opponent will come near them. Maybe you enjoy this, but it doesn't, by ANY MEANS, make it perfect.

Not mine.

Oh, well, as long as you're happy, far be it from anyone else to care if a character is nerfed.
Plus, last time I checked, most people consider F.L.U.D.D. to be not that good. After all, its use is very situational. The only time it's actually useful is when someone's trying to recover and they are just barely going to make it.

Herisy! Gigalypuff = greatest thing evar!!!!!111!

I happen to think Gigglypuff is very cool, considering it doesn't really affect gameplay. However, it LOOKS bad. It LOOKS like they got lazy on testing and just didn't find/fix these glitches. It looks unprofessional to have so many glitches in the game. (there are more than that, you can probably find 90% of them on YouTube)

Maybe I am a blind fanboy when it comes to Brawl. But the game is just so fantatic that I can live with that.

Yes, you are a blind fanboy, and you're also ignorant and naive. I love Nintendo, I love Brawl, I counted down the days (my friends were getting ready to kill me, just ask them) but it's a disappointment. Obviously it couldn't have lived up to all of our dreams, but it's still a disappointment.
If you want to ignore that and be a blind fanboy, that's fine with me; just don't bring this kind of idiocy into an argument. The whole time I've been having this discussion with you, I've been asking myself, "Is this some sort of a joke? He must be kidding."

My Character Predictions were just meant for fun speculation to pass the time. It was all just guesses. But for a thirty five character roster (which is clearly all Sora had time to include) Brawl's roster does a great job of balancing the wants of all Smashers.

You're right, Metroid didn't get the shaft or anything.

Stage builder is most defintitely awesome the way it is. SSE is a fine and enjoyable way of unlocking the roster (its more fun in co-op) and the cutscenes are pure win. Stickers are pretty stupid and pointless, but who cares? They don't force people to use them.

SSE is the boring way to unlock the entire roster. It's too easy. No challenge to unlock the characters, except for Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf. The other ways are easy as well, but at least you get the epic battle with the characters. It took me out of my way to do so, but I unlocked the entire roster (except for the three) outside of the SSE. The cutscenes are win, though. Stickers may not be forced upon you, but keep in mind that they took out time they could've put towards making the Stage Builder or some of the 1P modes better so they could put in the pointless Stickers. And face it, the only reason for the stickers is SSE; there's no other reason. We already had trophies for the collectible, so they're there purely for SSE, the other modes for it are just extra because they had the stickers in there already.

My SSB4 predictions? I'm glad you asked:

Oh dear God...

-45 character roster (including: Ridley, Megaman and Dr. Kawasaki from Brain Age.)

-More options for Stage Builder (making it even more awesome, if that's possible.)

-Monthly downloadable stages, music and characters.

-Gameplay nearly identical to Brawl's (ie: perfect.)

I'm think that about covers it.

Ridley = Yes.
Megaman = Okay.
Dr. Kawasaki = WHAT ARE YOU, NUTS?

Yes, it's completely possible for it to be more awesome.

We better get that, if Mario Kart Wii gets it, which it is. (Seriously, where do they figure that Mario Kart deserves DLC more than Brawl?)

Yeah, I don't see that happening. Sakurai wants to make the games unique, and that's good, as long as he makes the games unique in the right way. Plus, Brawl's gameplay is nowhere near perfect.

Seriously, PLEASE tell me you're joking. Your lunacy is scary.

 

[antimatter]

Subspace is great, I'll grant you that.

LOL, WHAT?!? Dear God in heaven, if I even see the initials "SSE", I freak out and pulverize everything in sight yelling "You must recover!" That ABOMINATION can go rot in video game hell for eternity. I was shanghaied into playing it only because it was the quickest way to get all characters, and to get more music.

 

[Spire]

Firus, you don't have to be so harsh towards someone for stating their opinion. He wasn't attacking you, why must you flame him? It's obvious that you have a strong disliking towards Brawl, but don't take it out on those that like it and appreciate what it has to offer.

 

[SiegKnight]

I agree with the above pose by Spire. I agree with informing idiots but not acting like a nasty ****** about it. Just inform them kindly without being imposing. You also didn't particularly explain why Brawls gameplay isn't better than Melee. I agree the engine thus far is better than Brawls but to a non competetive its easy to feel Brawl is more 'fluid' on the surface, and because Melee's old and must've got boring to them by now.

explain to the fool properly, without insults man. x.o;

 

[Link Hero Of Winds]

For God's sake: BRAWL IS NOT MELEE!!!!! Of course things were changed! Did you honestly expect them to just throw in 15 new characters to Melee and keep it the exact same? Of course a lot of things were changed, some for good, some for bad. If you honestly expected a Melee rehash you must be delusional.. there is no way they would do that. Was Melee the exact same as SSB64? NO! It was much faster, added air-dodges, and overall completely revamped the physics! The exact same thing happened between Melee and Brawl.

 

[grimraper139]

no

10 characters

 

[KrazyKaiju]

I actually wasn't quite thinking of the next Smash Brothers at this point (though it's not bad to speculate).

Rather, I was thinking about the "next Brawl," so to speak. There was quite a bit of deleted content/characters that people would like to see, yes?

Could is be possible that there might be a "Brawl Complete/International Version"? This would be going the route of games like Final Fantasy X and XII, adding new content and "completing" the game.

It's a bit of a stretch, but that's quite a way to capitalize on a successful title.

 

[Wiseguy]

You're nuts. It's not awesome, it screws people up for no reason. It grants KOs to the lucky. It's nothing but idiotic and used as a tactic to help noobs out. I don't think ANYONE else agrees with you, except for the noobs and Sakurai, of course. I have now officially lost any and all respect I had for you.

I am devastated.

Also, I still find tripping (and the people who complain about it) to be extremely hilarious.

Clearly you don't understand what I meant. Yes, we have all of those modes. But they are all bare-bones, meaning there isn't much to them.

Subspace is great, I'll grant you that, but it doesn't have a whole lot of replayability. I love it, but to say it's perfect is ignorant.

Classic is boring, long, and repetitive. Instead of random characters like last time (COMPLETELY random) we now have random Special Brawls. Who wants to do Metal, Giant, Team Brawls over and over again? Why can't we just have plain 1 vs. 1s? Why is it nearly impossible to fight Crazy Hand now? Why was Race to the Finish removed? Why do we have to go through Target Test twice? The only good part about Classic is that it has a FFA, but there's only one, and it doesn't even things out at all.

Target Test has been dumbed down to 5 levels. I played through each level with every character, getting the time challenge, and haven't played them since. What happened to character-specific Target Tests, which are interesting and force you to work hard to even BEAT them, much less get a good time. That's a good thing.

Training is fine the way it is.

Homerun Contest now has the shield, which is nice, but the mode itself is really not that fun. The same thing with Target Test, I play through it with every character, get the challenges, and I don't play it anymore. It's just not that fun and replayable. Heck, the daily replays (of this and Target Test) even bore me. How many times can you go through the same thing?

Event Matches are cool, I actually haven't played them since I beat them all. I'll come back to them eventually though, I beat them on Easy (except for those you beat on Hard to get a challenge) so I could have something to go back and do.

All-Star Mode is, if possible, more long, boring and repetitive than Classic. Not to mention, just like Classic, you have to go through it with MORE than just the 35 characters, you have to go through it once for each different Final Smash.

It has a robust selection, but it seems as if Sakurai was so obsessed with fitting everything in that he didn't put much in it.

P.S. You forgot Boss Battles, which is surprising, considering that it's probably the best 1P mode of them all.

I am very happy with all these modes. Not because I play them often, because I don't. They are what they are and they fill their roles quite nicely. And is there any other fighting game with this much single player content? Nope. I've got zero complaints on this front.

What are you smoking? You can make tons of stuff with Stage Builder, but the features (like Trees) take up way too much space, there are a lack of pieces (no icy slopes, for starters), you can't select spawn points, forcing you to put spikes on if there's a ceiling for your stage, you can't use water...must I go on? There are obviously millions of possibilities, but that doesn't mean it's perfect. There are millions of possibilites for lots of things that aren't perfect, and Stage Builder is one of them. Plus, 3 JPEG backgrounds? There is one set of non-interchangeable pieces for each background? You can only have one song per stage, and you can't put your own in (I would want to put in mostly video game music that didn't make it in) I love Stage Builder, I really do; it's one of the best pieces of Brawl. But just like most of Brawl, it's missing something.
Also, the fact that you can share stages via the Internet is not due to Brawl at all, except for the fact that you save to SD cards. The ability to share stages is due partially to the functionality of SD cards with computers and the Internet's capabilities. Yes, you can share stages with your friends, but you weren't referring to that. (Before you bring up that point)

Is the stage builder perfect as it could have ever possibly have been? No, point taken.

It is still a very awesome addition that is plenty great just the way it is? Very much so. You can make some great stuff in Stage builder, and its sure to keep the game fresh in the years to come.

The scoring system is now completely nerfed. It, once again, assists noobs, so that if they hit you at some point throughout the match and you die, they get a point. Since you cannot switch it from Time, this is not good. Not to mention, Brawl's physics, being based on defense, make it difficult to do a mode like Time where you have to rush forward and attack your enemies. This makes it especially unfair for those without projectiles, since those with projectiles can camp and attack, while those without can only camp in hopes that the opponent will come near them. Maybe you enjoy this, but it doesn't, by ANY MEANS, make it perfect.

Go to the SWF friend finder and find some actual Smashers to trade friendcodes with: http://smashboards.com/ff/

Then you can switch it to stock. Happy?

Oh, well, as long as you're happy, far be it from anyone else to care if a character is nerfed.
Plus, last time I checked, most people consider F.L.U.D.D. to be not that good. After all, its use is very situational. The only time it's actually useful is when someone's trying to recover and they are just barely going to make it.

I never said it was wrong for anyone else to care about nerfed characters. You can think what you like. Speaking for myself, no I don't really care about characters that I don't use. (And yes, I know that makes me a terrible person. Shame on me, and so forth.)

And yes, FLUDD is very limited in its use. But almost every other Mario move it so solid, it hardly matters.

I happen to think Gigglypuff is very cool, considering it doesn't really affect gameplay. However, it LOOKS bad. It LOOKS like they got lazy on testing and just didn't find/fix these glitches. It looks unprofessional to have so many glitches in the game. (there are more than that, you can probably find 90% of them on YouTube)

I too love glitches like this. Incredibly entertaining.

And since it doesn't affect gameplay.... what's to complain about?

Yes, you are a blind fanboy, and you're also ignorant and naive. I love Nintendo, I love Brawl, I counted down the days (my friends were getting ready to kill me, just ask them) but it's a disappointment. Obviously it couldn't have lived up to all of our dreams, but it's still a disappointment.
If you want to ignore that and be a blind fanboy, that's fine with me; just don't bring this kind of idiocy into an argument. The whole time I've been having this discussion with you, I've been asking myself, "Is this some sort of a joke? He must be kidding."

You may find this hard to believe, but some people in this world disagree with your opinions. I know its terribly unfair you should have to be exposed to other points of view, and believe me I feel your pain. I suggest using the "ignore" option on this message board against every single poster who doesn't agree with you 100% of the time.

You're right, Metroid didn't get the shaft or anything.

In characters? Sure. But they made up for it with two extremely awesome new stages. Frigate Orpheon and Norfair are among my favorites.

SSE is the boring way to unlock the entire roster. It's too easy. No challenge to unlock the characters, except for Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf. The other ways are easy as well, but at least you get the epic battle with the characters. It took me out of my way to do so, but I unlocked the entire roster (except for the three) outside of the SSE. The cutscenes are win, though. Stickers may not be forced upon you, but keep in mind that they took out time they could've put towards making the Stage Builder or some of the 1P modes better so they could put in the pointless Stickers. And face it, the only reason for the stickers is SSE; there's no other reason. We already had trophies for the collectible, so they're there purely for SSE, the other modes for it are just extra because they had the stickers in there already.

Please. The inclusion of one feature does not mean another was sacrificed. They were likely included by two different sub-teams of developers on the project. And since the stickers are basically nothing, they were probably thrown together by one dude over the course of one weekend.

Oh dear God...

*Cue ominous music*

Ridley = Yes.
Megaman = Okay.
Dr. Kawasaki = WHAT ARE YOU, NUTS?

That last one a joke.

...mostly.

Yes, it's completely possible for it to be more awesome.

Agreed.

We better get that, if Mario Kart Wii gets it, which it is. (Seriously, where do they figure that Mario Kart deserves DLC more than Brawl?)

Double agreed.

Yeah, I don't see that happening. Sakurai wants to make the games unique, and that's good, as long as he makes the games unique in the right way. Plus, Brawl's gameplay is nowhere near perfect.

We'll see. With each interation of Smash, the gameplay chances seem less and less drastic. And with Sakurai claiming this will be his last Smash game (so he claims...) I imagine whosever they hand the next one too will stick pretty close to Brawl (considering its has already outsold all Japanese Melee sales in less than two months and will defintiely do the same in North America).

Seriously, PLEASE tell me you're joking. Your lunacy is scary.

No, I'm not joking. Or am I? BWAH HA HA HA HA HA!!!

 

[Fletch]

Wiseguy, I don't know why people even address you anymore, your posts are always awful.

 

[Firus]

Firus, you don't have to be so harsh towards someone for stating their opinion. He wasn't attacking you, why must you flame him? It's obvious that you have a strong disliking towards Brawl, but don't take it out on those that like it and appreciate what it has to offer.

You're right, it's just the way he was saying it, it sounded like he didn't think it was his opinion at all. And 90% of what he said is totally not true, especially the game being almost perfect. I didn't mean to flame him, I just wanted to set him straight. I guess it came off meaner than I meant it to. Well, I mean, I guess I said it in a meaner way than I meant to.

I really don't understand why everyone thinks I hate Brawl either, I love Brawl, I like Melee as well but I've played it all of twice since Brawl came out, and not for very long either time. I love Brawl, I just think that there are a lot of flaws in the game. To ignore them and say that the game is perfect just isn't true. Perfect is a strong word, and while I have played only Melee, Super Metroid, and Brawl since the game came out, the game disappoints. But not enough for me to stop playing it within a couple of weeks, I'm sure I'll be playing it for a while.

LOL, WHAT?!? Dear God in heaven, if I even see the initials "SSE", I freak out and pulverize everything in sight yelling "You must recover!" That ABOMINATION can go rot in video game hell for eternity. I was shanghaied into playing it only because it was the quickest way to get all characters, and to get more music.

I really don't understand why everyone hates it so much. It wasn't perfect, but it's practically a full-fledged game (pretty much like a Kirby game only with more character options and not as structured around worlds, if you've ever played one) mixed in with what we already have in Brawl. It has little replay value, but it's fun. The only part that annoyed me was that I wanted to finish it ASAP to get Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf.

I agree with the above pose by Spire. I agree with informing idiots but not acting like a nasty ****** about it. Just inform them kindly without being imposing. You also didn't particularly explain why Brawls gameplay isn't better than Melee. I agree the engine thus far is better than Brawls but to a non competetive its easy to feel Brawl is more 'fluid' on the surface, and because Melee's old and must've got boring to them by now.

explain to the fool properly, without insults man. x.o;

I think the phrase "nasty ******" is a little strong. I realize I was of mean to him, but there's no reason to insult me yourself.

Regardless, I see what you're saying. I think the reason I flipped out so much is the attitude that he had; it's the internet, so obviously I could be misinterpreting it, but the attitude it felt like he had was that his opinions were fact, that there's nothing wrong with Brawl, and when I gave him reasons why Brawl isn't perfect, he basically said "OK, there's ONE thing wrong with Brawl." When I said that the Stage Builder was lackluster, he said it was "lies and slander". Lies implies that we're talking about fact here (you can't lie about opinion...well, you can, but only about the fact that it is someone's opinion...well, you get what I mean) and this is really opinion we're talking about here. His whole attitude is that what he says is fact, not opinion.

One reason I didn't really give reasons for why Brawl's gameplay isn't as good as Melee's is that you've heard it a million and one times, I'm sure. But the main reason, really, is that I don't necessarily mind Brawl's gameplay, (aside from Tripping) it's the principle of the thing. It's the fact that this whole change was brought about by Sakurai on purpose to help the noobs out, give them a better chance, and take away the ability to get better from the people who practice. I don't play competitively, but video games are what I enjoy most, and I've always been determined to get better, to play hard, even if I never actually get better.

 

[Zombieforce]

Very hard to say if it will meet the same fate as brawl.

I mean, we are talking about a game that will most likely come out on the next nintendo console, which is probably years away.

 

[PensFan101]

If only to completely isolate a group of players intentionally, then yes, another smash would be tragic. Brawl at a competitive level is practically unwanted because of it's limited technical aspects and it's narrow skill gap. The game is extremely lenient towards people who are either uncoordinated or non gamers.



...

"So you can double jump IRL rite?"

Is being hit by a sword and not succumbing to massive blood loss realistic? Is being able to fall from heights uncharted and manage to not break your limbs when you hit the ground realistic? Is not getting incinerated by lava realistic. Honestly, name me one realistic aspect about this game beyond being able to walk and run normally?

And if you knew better, the wavedash didn't make melee an excellent game. It was the fact that there was a skill gap and near limitless skill advancing. The skill between two players was shown prominently through technical ability, mindgames, spacing, and general knowledge in match ups. Things such as L-cancel and Wavedash made things such much better because it gave all characters a variety of approaches and spacing options. Melee was a game that rewarded the better player.

Put Brawl in comparison. How many approach options do you have? Very few, which are all character dependant. Can you use attacks in a consecutive manner? No. All attacks go in a small series of variable hits rather than a combo; a series of inescapable hits. Do you have complete control over your character? No. The fact that there is a random variable present at all times makes approaching the opponent an extreme risk.

Enough of the no's, what does Brawl have? Hit, Run and Camp. The excitement.



Why should we applaud for a man who single handedly and intentionally, destroyed a community because his philosophies got in the way of logic and universal progression? Shouldn't the better player be rewarded the win because he worked hard at it? It makes sense.

Ok, I can admit that the physics are well done, but the intentionally dumbed down mechanics are seriously heart rendering. L-cancel is gone (An element that was in the two previous games. Removed for the sake of "balance"), the absence of Inertia, Multiple air dodges (Opponent can't be punished at all), very little hit stun (No combos, no punishment, no fun) and tripping (Need I say more). There are more things, but I just can't name them off the top of my head right now.

The sad part about the whole situation is that the E For All demo had L-cancel, Wavelanding, Dash dancing, JC Grabs,Prominent hit stun, and tripping rarely ever occurred, if at all. (0.1% probability). It was like a polished less technical version of Melee. But, they went out of there way to delay the game and make it worse!! Should I be applauding for that?



Conservative players are the only players that stand a chance.

Characters with projectiles are god because this game limits approach, while at the same time caters to the defensive players. Shield pressure and punishment was a crucial risk for a defensive player; you had to attack sometime. This games is so limited that you can't stop the opponents projectiles because there is no fast or safe way to avoid them. Your only option is to camp back.

Sure, I love this game to death. But with all things considered, it's an extreme disappointment. I want to be rewarded for being experienced, not segregated for being experienced.



Just release again Melee with newer aesthetics.

That's the only way you can make this game better. Nothing good can come from a sequel to "Brawl".

You make some good counter-points, but there are some things to consider:

-Things like tripping have the same probability of happening to either player. It's simply an element in the game.
-The good players are going to win. If you're experienced, and you are good, then you will win. Saying that you will always win is riduclous because nobody is the best, and even if you beat somebody a million times, they should still be able to beat you once, unless they are a total noob
-You make a good point on the realism. No, people cannot jump in mid-air, but that is nothing new to Smash Bros. Also, I don't think anyone wants to see blood and guts in a smash game. that is realism that you just don't need in a game like this.
-Combos don't necessarily make a better game. Brawl is about wearing your opponent down and then finishing him or her. I don't see what's up with the whole approach debate. If you space yourself well enough, and know how to get yourself into position, you can start attacking. You're going to get hit sometimes when you approach a player.
-Thus far there is a lack of advanced techniques in Brawl, but that doesn't mean there aren't some that have yet to be discovered.
-When it comes to combos, does hitting a button combination that your opponent is powerless to step take more skill than trying to beat an opponent who can easily counterattack?
-You talk about the delay, but that's why he needed to do it. He wanted to take out wavedashing, l-cancelling etc. because it doesn't progress the game. He was fixing things that weren't meant for the game. It doesn't close the talent gap at all. People who were good at Melee will quickly pick up Brawl and find new things to do and be good at. I wonder how far the "the better playr should always win" sentiment really goes, because pro players should always beat beginners, but they're human, and may lose once in a while. People expecting to be great at Brawl right away cause they weregreat at Melee just need to keep working on it.
-There's an easy way to avoid projectiles and that is to roll through them or jump over. You gain ground. For a laser like Fox or Flco, you will likely take some damage, but they also expose themselves

Finally, saying that Sakurai destroyed a community is ridiculous. The only people he's going to remove from the community are people who just choose to leave for whatever reason. These arguements aren't going to get anyone anywhere really. If people want to still play Melee, great. But, the Smash community is progressively moving on and will move on as Brawl progresses.

 

[Adi]

Let's see how much worse he can make it ^_^.

 

[Firus]

I actually wasn't quite thinking of the next Smash Brothers at this point (though it's not bad to speculate).

Rather, I was thinking about the "next Brawl," so to speak. There was quite a bit of deleted content/characters that people would like to see, yes?

Could is be possible that there might be a "Brawl Complete/International Version"? This would be going the route of games like Final Fantasy X and XII, adding new content and "completing" the game.

It's a bit of a stretch, but that's quite a way to capitalize on a successful title.

That actually sounds like a really cool idea. Unfortunately, it probably won't happen. But this would fix a lot; the Roy, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, and (very few) Pichu fans could be satisfied, we could get some more old stages, some things cut at the last minute (or things like the Earthbound/Fire Emblem demos) could be put in again, and some glitches could be fixed up.

I am devastated.

Also, I still find tripping (and the people who complain about it) to be extremely hilarious.

Why do you find the people who complain about it funny? I mean, it's annoying, and there's no point for it; what's wrong with hating it?

I am very happy with all these modes. Not because I play them often, because I don't. They are what they are and they fill their roles quite nicely. And is there any other fighting game with this much single player content? Nope. I've got zero complaints on this front.

My point was that while there is a lot of modes, the replay value for said modes isn't huge. There's not a whole lot to said modes. I agree, there is more single player content in Brawl than in most other fighting games, but I think there are things missing from it.

Is the stage builder perfect as it could have ever possibly have been? No, point taken.

It is still a very awesome addition that is plenty great just the way it is? Very much so. You can make some great stuff in Stage builder, and its sure to keep the game fresh in the years to come.

I agree, it is a cool feature that will give you a way to keep coming back to the game without getting bored. I just wouldn't say it's perfect because there are some things that would've been nice to have.

Go to the SWF friend finder and find some actual Smashers to trade friendcodes with: http://smashboards.com/ff/

Then you can switch it to stock. Happy?

I have people on my Friend Roster, that's not the problem. For one thing, most of them are never on, and for another thing, sometimes it's just fun to do random online. That way, if you epically fail, no one will actually know who you are.

I never said it was wrong for anyone else to care about nerfed characters. You can think what you like. Speaking for myself, no I don't really care about characters that I don't use. (And yes, I know that makes me a terrible person. Shame on me, and so forth.)

And yes, FLUDD is very limited in its use. But almost every other Mario move it so solid, it hardly matters.

I didn't say you should care about characters that you don't play with being nerfed. But the reason you used to counter my statement of "Some characters got nerfed" was that yours didn't. Or at least, it seemed like that was your counter. Looking back, it was probably a joke, but I didn't realize that at the time. I don't expect you to care about other people's characters, I personally couldn't care less that...well, I can't think of a character at the moment that got nerfed that I don't play with, (as you can see, I main a lot of people) but you get the point. My point was that that is a flaw in Brawl. Whether or not it affects us, it's still a flaw.

I too love glitches like this. Incredibly entertaining.

And since it doesn't affect gameplay.... what's to complain about?

Well, in this case, I suppose it doesn't. But there are other glitches (finally thought of some other ones) that kill you, like falling through Castle Siege or Delphino Plaza. You can even fall through the Falcon Flyer on the Meta Ridley Battle (luckily, I didn't lose Intense due to that, but I did lose Very Hard) after it's been slammed down and is coming back up. In that case, that's a big problem.

You may find this hard to believe, but some people in this world disagree with your opinions. I know its terribly unfair you should have to be exposed to other points of view, and believe me I feel your pain. I suggest using the "ignore" option on this message board against every single poster who doesn't agree with you 100% of the time.

That's not the problem; I enjoy a good debate any day of the week. After all, why would I join a forum if I only wanted to hear my opinion? My only problem was that, before, your reasoning wasn't really reasoning. Now, on the other hand, you are bringing a good discussion to the table, and I thank you for that.

In characters? Sure. But they made up for it with two extremely awesome new stages. Frigate Orpheon and Norfair are among my favorites.

As much as I like Norfair, I won't hide the fact that a second lava stage in Brawl was not necessary. At the very least they could've taken out Brinstar and added in Brinstar Depths instead. True, it was an annoying stage, but it was creative, at least. (The first non-lava stage in a Smash Bros game, as a matter of fact ) Frigate Orpheon is okay, but the lack of a Metroid Prime reference was disappointing. I mean, the Parasite Queen is the only part of that level that's reminiscent of the place from the actual game. The lights going out is more like the Space Pirate Labs, and the stage flipping is just added for no good reason. I'm probably mostly disappointed by the stages because of the lack of a Phendrana Drifts stage, but...yeah. Even so, 2 good stages doesn't exactly make up for the lack of a second rep for the second time now, at least not in my opinion.

Please. The inclusion of one feature does not mean another was sacrificed. They were likely included by two different sub-teams of developers on the project. And since the stickers are basically nothing, they were probably thrown together by one dude over the course of one weekend.

I didn't say a feature was sacrificed, but I think that it's possible that some modes were downgraded (possibly even the SSE) because they spent some time on Stickers. I don't think they could've thrown them together in a mere weekend, I think it would've taken longer especially since they had to add the few different modes, the fact that they appear in matches randomly, and most of all, putting the actual effects into Subspace Emissary. Now, it probably didn't take that long, but I still think that they might've been able to improve the game, if only a little. Probably not very much though, you're right.

*Cue ominous music*

That last one a joke.

...mostly.

I guess he would make a good "WTF?" character for SSB4...still, no. What would his Final Smash be? Force you to do complex math problems or you automatically get KO'd?...Hehe, that actually might be fun...

Agreed.

Double agreed.

We'll see. With each interation of Smash, the gameplay chances seem less and less drastic. And with Sakurai claiming this will be his last Smash game (so he claims...) I imagine whosever they hand the next one too will stick pretty close to Brawl (considering its has already outsold all Japanese Melee sales in less than two months and will defintiely do the same in North America).

Jeez, it already outsold Melee's sales? Wow. I guess in that case they would definitely stick closer to Brawl (assuming that Sakurai actually doesn't come back, which seems unlikely considering how many times he's lied to us so far). Then again, they should realize that the sales being so high would not really be any reflection, necessarily, on the game itself but the huge fan base. Not that I'm saying the game isn't worthy of the sales, but everyone was going to buy the game regardless of how good it was. I mean, it's Smash Bros, after all.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

oh my god you're not serious are you? did it really have all that? Please don't fuucking tell me it had that crap and then took it out? That changes my stance entirely

Yeah, it did.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Osfm3I5Q244

 

[J-man24star]

I would never say DOOMED. you know, i'd say that the next smash bros. would be the Best!!! so, why the hate for SSBB, the one game that we all had joy (Suspense, chat, speculating-fun) and Grief (Trolls, False Prophets....) and now we are throwing this away because ONE thing is missing? because nintendo didn't do online really well, because GLitches and exploits are eliminated and your now equal terms with noobies? COME ON ENJOY THE GAME, this is stupid. one month has passed, and everyone hates brawl. I'm going to be the first prophet for Smash Bros. 4, I predict this is going to be the same cycle as last, So much grief and excitement and prophets... then excitement when the game is out, then Hate. i enjoy the game. You should to.

 

[PwnyRide]

@ TC...

It took you 7 years to get used to Melee?

 

[Firus]

I would never say DOOMED. you know, i'd say that the next smash bros. would be the Best!!! so, why the hate for SSBB, the one game that we all had joy (Suspense, chat, speculating-fun) and Grief (Trolls, False Prophets....) and now we are throwing this away because ONE thing is missing? because nintendo didn't do online really well, because GLitches and exploits are eliminated and your now equal terms with noobies? COME ON ENJOY THE GAME, this is stupid. one month has passed, and everyone hates brawl. I'm going to be the first prophet for Smash Bros. 4, I predict this is going to be the same cycle as last, So much grief and excitement and prophets... then excitement when the game is out, then Hate. i enjoy the game. You should to.

Yeah, I suppose 'doomed' and 'fate' aren't the best words to use...I really just used them for dramatic effect.

Obviously Smash Bros. is going to be great no matter what, but it might not be as good as it could be, which is the case with Brawl, in my opinion.

I don't know if you're talking to me regarding the hate for Brawl, but if you are, I actually love Brawl, I just also believe that it has some flaws that could've been prevented. You're right about the joy and everything like that with the waiting. More and more, I'm starting to think that what Spock said is correct: "After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." For whatever reason, I really enjoyed waiting for Brawl, almost more than actually having the game. Not that I dislike Brawl, but that's just what happened.

I don't intend to drop Brawl anytime soon, by any means, though.

 

[Firus]

@ TC...

It took you 7 years to get used to Melee?

Of course not. I got used to Melee very quickly, I don't even remember how long it took me to get used to it, that's how long it took.

My point was, that after playing Melee for so long, with Brawl being so different, we'll finally get used to Brawl and then it'll get switched up on us.
I was really just trying to dramatize a point, it won't really take us until the next Smash Bros to get used to Brawl. I think that I'm almost there myself. Obviously, minus the ATs, but the physics and everything...I've pretty much adapted to it already.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

oh my god you're not serious are you? did it really have all that? Please don't fuucking tell me it had that crap and then took it out? That changes my stance entirely

I would never say DOOMED. you know, i'd say that the next smash bros. would be the Best!!! so, why the hate for SSBB, the one game that we all had joy (Suspense, chat, speculating-fun) and Grief (Trolls, False Prophets....) and now we are throwing this away because ONE thing is missing? because nintendo didn't do online really well, because GLitches and exploits are eliminated and your now equal terms with noobies? COME ON ENJOY THE GAME, this is stupid. one month has passed, and everyone hates brawl. I'm going to be the first prophet for Smash Bros. 4, I predict this is going to be the same cycle as last, So much grief and excitement and prophets... then excitement when the game is out, then Hate. i enjoy the game. You should to.

I'm not going to go overboard again, but those aspects in the game weren't glitches. Many technical aspects in melee exist because they were intentional. Something such as wavedash or L-cancel cannot be executed unless they were programmed intentionally. If they were glitches, then why wouldn't a character just hover above the ground when you airdodge into like you would do a wall?

The exploits don't make this game bad, it's the limitations and the philosophy it is based on. How can we enjoy a game when the developers created it so we would be excluded? It's like swallowing knives.