DekuBoy
Smash Lord
Ness would be better than Claus. Claus would be better as a AT or boss. This is why I decided against joining the Masked Pig Army.
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The Ness Support Thread
- Thread starter DekuBoy
- Start date
PrettyGoodYear
Smash Lord
Claus brings much more to the table than Ness.
DekuBoy
Smash Lord
My opinion. Don't take offense.
PK Starstorm
Smash Journeyman
I think he'd be a good boss in Lucas' part in the subspace emissary
PrettyGoodYear
Smash Lord
None taken..
DekuBoy
Smash Lord
Lucas and Ness would be a great team-up. BTW I've updated the first post with more info and a cool fake Ness update.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Whether it's your opinion or not, fact is, Claus does bring more to the table than Ness does. AT or Boss just wouldn't cut it, especially if you were gonna place someone who isn't much different from Lucas in a spot instead. Claus would be a lot better.
Ginger9001
Smash Ace
Seeing how its not an actual known fact, I would have to say that that is your own opinion too. xD
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
It's not much of an opinion, Claus(Masked Man) is a lot more different than Lucas when you put Ness in the picture. Lucas is basically another Ness, while Claus has a lot more differences than Lucas. This is a fact.
Ginger9001
Smash Ace
So its a fact that he would most likely be more unique than Ness is what you are saying, right? I'd have to agree with you on that one. xD But saying that Claus is better than Ness (or more diserving to be in Brawl) is when I'd say it becomes your opinion.
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
Ness' could get different moves, since Lucas inherited most of his moveset (A moveset he was always supposed to have).
Meaning Ness could be more unique... and anyway Claus seems like a metaknight clone in appearance.. (Maybe due to Sakurai?) not saying they will share a moveset.
PrettyGoodYear
Smash Lord
Where do people get that Lucas was supposed to get this moveset and Ness another one? And MetaKnight doesn't have an arm cannon or PSI.
Ginger9001
Smash Ace
xD Yeah, thats why I'm pretty much agreeing that it would take a miracle for Ness to have a unique moveset from Lucas's. But I'm kind of at a standstill with Claus and Ness. Claus is pretty bad-***. Yet, I still just want to see Ness back just for old time's sake. I wish they could add both, but thats highly unlikely. So its kind of a "meh" for me.
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
Lucas was supposed to be the Mother rep, so logically.. The moveset Ness had was supposed to be for Lucas.
You pointed out he doesn't have arm cannon, and PSI.. yet you didn't mention that they both have: Bat wings, Mask, Sword, cape, and mysteriousness surrounding their identities. For all we know Meta Knight could be Kirby's older brother too LOL
PrettyGoodYear
Smash Lord
Huh? Logically? That doesn't make sense. Both Lucas and Ness learn more or less the same PSI in Mother games. Both Lucas and Ness borrow their movesets from the girls in their games, Kumatora and Paula. Realistically speaking, either could've of had a moveset based on their own moves, but it didn't happen. I don't see how you can say Ness's set was intended for Lucas.
Mask, cap and mysteriousness don't have any influence in movesets. Well, unless your name is Mario and your cape is yellow. The only thing they really have in common would be the sword, and not even the moves (which they wouldn't share, Claus wouldn't be the speedy Swordsman type) and gliding.
And yes, Metaknight *could* be Kirby's older brother. Ever seen him without a mask? Too bad we might never find out.
PK Starstorm
Smash Journeyman
Sheik is back! Ness may be back! Yayyyy!!
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
I don't know what you intended to do here but.. you didn't do it well..
Lucas already has most of Ness' moves therefore it proves that this moveset given to ness would have been indented for Lucas. Kumatora, Paula and the Mother game PSI moves don't have anything to do with this.
As for Claus and Metaknight, I said appearance not moveset - Please read before jumping to conclusions.
yep.
DekuBoy
Smash Lord
Ness' chances are slightly higher now Claus has been shown as a sticker. But of course Claus is still possible.
J Tangle
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 41
- NNID
- JTangle
Deuce Blade makes a good point since Lucas was supposed to be in Melee Ness has Lucas' move set. So it would only make since for Ness to come back with his own original moves. Also like Aevin said before Lucas dosen't use any tools to fight except for the snake rope (which I'm guessing Lucas will use for grabs/throws since he uses it for a tether recover) He also only uses PSI for attacks. Those changes alone already make Lucas a completely different character from Ness. So I say Ness still has a bright future. And most of you saying Lucas and Ness have the same play style probaly don't even use Ness as a Main in Melee. So how would you know they're the same when you don't even play with the character?
DekuBoy
Smash Lord
From the new videos I've seen that Lucas uses mostly kicking attacks.
AdmantNESS
Smash Ace
Hey everyone, I found a post in which someone used pictures to compare Lucas's and Ness's standard attacks.
http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3656883&postcount=694
Here are a few. Credit for all of this goes to Gargomon251.
Pretty good comparisons huh?
http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3656883&postcount=694
Here are a few. Credit for all of this goes to Gargomon251.
Pretty good comparisons huh?
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Lol, using that logic, Wario must not be in the game. Oops.....
Lucas was supposed to replace Ness in Melee, Ness woas not intended to remain in the game along with Lucas. Lucas has basically the same B moves as Ness and uses a stick just like Ness' bat as a smash attack. Ness has a dim future until Sakurai hints at his confirmation, which he seems to stray away from with every Mother update. Not many played as Ness b/c in Melee, Ness was an absolute failure. Some people actually do play as Ness, that doesn't mean they won't say they play alike.
J Tangle
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 41
- NNID
- JTangle
Well I main as Ness and I can't see how you can call him a failure. The B moves are different enough to change the fighting style of the character. I hope you don't think he would be considered a clone; because ALL of their attacks would have to be a lot more similar which they're not (just think about all the clones in Melee and compare them to their counterparts). I did forget to mention Lucas' stick. It hasn't been confirmed if the stick has the same reflective properties as Ness' Bat. Also like Aevin said if Lucas is supposed to replace Ness why would they try making him so different from Ness?
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
I call him a failure, b/c that's what he was. I did use Ness a lot in 64, he was good and when Melee came, he got ****ed over by Sakurai. Did he hate Ness that much? I'm not saying Lucas or Ness are clones, but they are similar when it comes to B moves. They will most likely play alike though. Sure maybe the moves go in different directions, big deal, actually the only move that goes in a different direction is the side be. Everything else is basically the same as Ness's moves. If Ness was planned to be in a game that has no clones, why would any his moves be given to another character? Lucas could be a lot more different than Ness. I don't think they are making them different, but perfecting Lucas, so he won't end up like Ness. Also keep in mind, that Mother 3 looks to be taking precedence. Most Mother updates referrs to something from Mother 3, not the previous titles. Please don't mention Onett, b/c if I'm correct, it's the only Mother stage to bring back from Melee.
AsbestosBlatant
Smash Journeyman
Temple was referred to in an update before Temple was revealed as a playable stage.
Ness has been, twice. All of Lucas' moves are strikingly different than Ness'.
From the videos, Lucas even moves differently. Pay a little more attention to things before going on some paragraph long diatribe about how Ness is so awfully not coming back.
Furthermore, you don't know WHAT stages might still be coming back from Melee: "So here are some more stages that can also be played in Super Smash Bros. Brawl!" SOME MORE, not THE REST.
As far as Ness being a failure, that's your opinion. You obviously don't know how to play him.
Ness has been, twice. All of Lucas' moves are strikingly different than Ness'.
From the videos, Lucas even moves differently. Pay a little more attention to things before going on some paragraph long diatribe about how Ness is so awfully not coming back.
Furthermore, you don't know WHAT stages might still be coming back from Melee: "So here are some more stages that can also be played in Super Smash Bros. Brawl!" SOME MORE, not THE REST.
As far as Ness being a failure, that's your opinion. You obviously don't know how to play him.
J Tangle
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 41
- NNID
- JTangle
Actually I don't think the stages can really say anything for the fact like you said Onett and Fourside are the only Mother stages to choose from. Leaving it to not have any credibility to confirm a character being or not being in Brawl since Sakurai had no choice but to pick one of the two. The thing is Lucas and Ness' smashes are different. Where as Ness uses a yo-yo for his down and up smash Lucas use PSI. There hasn't been any confirmtion of the stick having the same reflective properties as Ness' Bat. Also we don't know if Lucas' Pk thunder leaves him stationary or does he fall just like Ness. We also don't know how mobile the PK Freeze is. You maybe able to move PK Freeze in any direction at will, Unlike PK flash which can only be moved Left and right (up and down is controlled by charging it). And Pk fire with Ness doesn't explode it only leaves a pillar of fire.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
1. Temple was never going to be replaced by another stage. Stage and character mentions are different
2. Only as a reference to help explain Lucas
3. Standards, yes (standards, are always different from character to character, unless they can't change for certain characters, Ex. Pichu and Pikachu
4. Again, all characters move differently in a way whether it may be a minor detail or distinct difference
5. Neither do you? So why discuss stages at a time like this. Sure I mentioned a stage, but only to show that stages don't necessarily mean a character will return
6. I did know how to play Ness, until he got ****ed over
I understand that the smash attacks are different, but almost everything you pointed out only shows my point. Aside from the similarities of the moves, it seems as if Sakurai wants Lucas to surpass Ness or perfect Lucas so he can perform smoother than that of Ness. Remember that comment he made in the update of Lucas, "Can he surpass even Ness", this could be a sign of that.
AsbestosBlatant
Smash Journeyman
I swear to god you are so presumptuous and bullheaded I will be maining Ness just to spite you.
Even when evidence, and proof is presented to you, you ignore it, time and time again, and instead choose to cling to little itty-bitty things that you find to be reasonable "facts" that are less facts than minor details. Vastly different attacks and movements, the mention of Ness rather than "a character from previous games", Onett, APE Inc being in the playable characters section of the credits, the list goes on, and yet you still insist.
And no, you do not know how to use Ness, especially if you think he got the short end of the stick.
Even when evidence, and proof is presented to you, you ignore it, time and time again, and instead choose to cling to little itty-bitty things that you find to be reasonable "facts" that are less facts than minor details. Vastly different attacks and movements, the mention of Ness rather than "a character from previous games", Onett, APE Inc being in the playable characters section of the credits, the list goes on, and yet you still insist.
And no, you do not know how to use Ness, especially if you think he got the short end of the stick.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Why, just because I have a different opinion than yours? Everyone on these boards presume things( liike you for example, you presume Ness will be in the game, others presume so-and-so will appear) and your insults won't bother me or change my opinion for that matter. Presuming things is basically the only way we can have discussion or arguments. If Ness is in the game and you main him, good for you. I on the other hand will be swaying away from my speedy style and maining Olimar to see what it's like to be a strategic mastermind. If it doesn't work out then I'll go back to my speedy playing. And if you're making a challenge, I gladly accept
AsbestosBlatant
Smash Journeyman
What you call an insult I call an opinion. Anyway, for future reference, I don't mean any insults in a personal way, more a "haha you guy" way.
To be reasonably honest I wish that both sides would get off of this "your opinion is so irritating and wrong due to x" on like every issue, but people saying that Lucas is basically the same thing as Ness is getting irritating, especially when they call different movements and moves a minor detail.
For example, PK Fire's vertical pillar was one of the benefits of PK Fire. It's now very clearly diagonal and probably intended to catch more characters in a row rather than keep one character in the same place. Things like that, I really would not call minor.
And yes, when I get my wi-fi stable again and Brawl is out, I'd be glad to 1v1 you.
Also as is becoming more apparent: lol internet fight
To be reasonably honest I wish that both sides would get off of this "your opinion is so irritating and wrong due to x" on like every issue, but people saying that Lucas is basically the same thing as Ness is getting irritating, especially when they call different movements and moves a minor detail.
For example, PK Fire's vertical pillar was one of the benefits of PK Fire. It's now very clearly diagonal and probably intended to catch more characters in a row rather than keep one character in the same place. Things like that, I really would not call minor.
And yes, when I get my wi-fi stable again and Brawl is out, I'd be glad to 1v1 you.
Also as is becoming more apparent: lol internet fight
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
I never said the moves were minor, but I did point out that they seem to perform better. Which could be a reason for that "surpassing Ness" comment Sakurai made. He could be trying to please the fans by making Lucas a better form or perfect Ness(though he's not literally Ness). Movements though, is another story. All characters move differently, there may be minor differences, like sliding, but it shows that every character move in a different fashion. I do understand where you're coming from, though. I look forward to our Brawl.
Even though Ness isn't playable :O?
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
I sure hope you can put up a good argument, b/c I'm about to go. Good luck
PrettyGoodYear
Smash Lord
How does Lucas having most of Ness's moves prove that was originally intended to be his? HOW? They *COULD'VE* of made a new one for Lucas, but they chose not to.
And maybe you should make your point more clear to keep people from "jumping to conclusions"
I leave my name here
forgive me mods for asking this... --just how banned is vesper, like not coming back or hiatus??--
anyone else find it odd the ness support thread isn't the one indexed in the character support links thread?? instead its a flame thread... what the hell is up with that.
forgive me mods for asking this... --just how banned is vesper, like not coming back or hiatus??--
anyone else find it odd the ness support thread isn't the one indexed in the character support links thread?? instead its a flame thread... what the hell is up with that.
and just how do you know that?? did sakurai tell you?? why didn't he tell me... and everyone else... on the dojo??
don't jump to conclusions or make assumptions just because Samurai Panda and Youko says its cool. think about things first before you say things like a traditionally secret character whom was not announced is automatically not playable... seriously ignorance for the win
Chepe
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 1, 2006
- Messages
- 1,146
I used to be full anti-Ness after "up until now", and while I still would rather have Claus, I can see Ness making a return. He can coexist with Lucas peacefully, since both would have almost completely different A moves and Ness' B moves may even have been changed (I would doubt this though)...
Either way it happens, I wont be surprised anymore...
Either way it happens, I wont be surprised anymore...
J Tangle
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 41
- NNID
- JTangle
I just can't see how Lucas can be called a replacement for Ness. They both have completely different smash attacks, the altering done to Lucas' special moves gives him a different fighting style to Ness', and Lucas (which I'm starting to think I'm the only one who notices this) uses a snake rope for grab moves.
Well that sounds more like your opinion. Who's to say who will play better with who. Even the man Sakurai can't tell you that. For the fact that everyone is different so theres no way he could say this person who uses Ness will play better with Lucas. There is always the possibilty that person may not be comfortable using Lucas' playstyle. The whole movement thing holds some credibilty since it is another detail that keeps Ness from playing like Lucas. I say if you take all the examples that are given by these many Ness users into consideration, you clearly have all the evidence of Lucas being a completely different fighter to Ness. So I don't understand why your so head strong about Lucas replacing Ness. If Sakurai is to be successful in making all smash fans happy why would he replace a loved character with someone completely different.