Uchiharakiri
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2005
- Messages
- 208
Hey buddy, guess in which one of those circles you belong in.
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The Myth of the Elitist Competitives
- Thread starter Yuna
- Start date
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hippochinfat!!
Smash Lord
It's obvious people who say it's bad to play with items on and stuff exist and I've seen them on the internet before. What a stupid thread.
Raise your hand if you hate Yuna.
Raise your hand if you hate Yuna.
As an ex-casualetist I can say the one person who made me post one of those stupid threads was Dylan.
I used to think there was a right way and a wrong way. Then I went to a tourney,and I had fun. Everyone there was supportive and kind, and I even learned how to do a few ATs. The point is, I think most casualetists lets one bad guy become the sterotype of tourney players everywhere. Basicly the people who post these threads need to learn that while yes games are supposed to be fun, fun is relative to everyone. I for one am now thinking that with the arrival of Brawl I'm going to become a tourney goer and imerse myself in the tournement scene.
I used to think there was a right way and a wrong way. Then I went to a tourney,and I had fun. Everyone there was supportive and kind, and I even learned how to do a few ATs. The point is, I think most casualetists lets one bad guy become the sterotype of tourney players everywhere. Basicly the people who post these threads need to learn that while yes games are supposed to be fun, fun is relative to everyone. I for one am now thinking that with the arrival of Brawl I'm going to become a tourney goer and imerse myself in the tournement scene.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
QFMFT
This was used as an example of competitive elitism.
This clearly isn't elitism. This person said "I think Competitive players enjoy the game overall more". If one can consider this to be elitism, one can also consider the numerous complaints of "competitive players take all the fun out of the game" to be elitism, causing the count of casual elitists to vastly overshadow that of competitives.
Edit -- "How can the 'less-serious' player be elitist?!" you ask. It all has to do with personal beliefs. The only arguable instance of competitive elitism is the "if you haven't played good players, you likely aren't good" saying. Obviously, this goes with the precedent that competitive players are better at smash. But is that elitism? Is a person who simply says "I got a better grade than you in science" all of a sudden a science elitist? Elitism only exists if the person has a sense of superiority. Being more skilled at smash is superiority at smash, I suppose, but why should that matter? If a casual player thinks it isn't true, than they should attempt to play new players and see how they fare. Now back to the original question... If a casual player thinks that what they are doing is morally superior, or that they are playing the game more correctly, it is most definitely elitism. Competitive and casual aren't two "classes", but rather two sides, so people from either or both can be elitist.
This whole argument between "Casuals and Competitives" is largely started by casuals themselves. The whole concept of people being elitist competitive was coined by casuals who were butthurt that competitive players are actually better than them, which is, I'm sorry to burst people's bubbles, generally a fact.
Simply put, the **** hits the fan as soon as casuals start antagonizing us and BAWing about competitives not enjoying the game like it was meant to be played. They should practice what they preach a little more and go play the game they want to play it in their little groups instead of trolling a largely competitive message board and starting flame wars.
Simply put, the **** hits the fan as soon as casuals start antagonizing us and BAWing about competitives not enjoying the game like it was meant to be played. They should practice what they preach a little more and go play the game they want to play it in their little groups instead of trolling a largely competitive message board and starting flame wars.
Point me to anywhere in my post(s) in which I claimed only competitive players had elitists. The whole point of my post was that *******s comes from both sides, it's this thread turning it into a one sided affair. Anyone who claims to have more fun at the same game is an idiot, casual or competitive.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
I think everyone needs to re-read Card's post 2 pages back. The fact of the matter is that we are all pissed at the idiots from both sides of the fence. It doesn't matter which side started, which side has more offenders, or what not. We all agree that we should distinguish between idiots, and not associate their posts to either camp as they are hated amongst both.
Uchiharakiri
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2005
- Messages
- 208
Little groups huh, we casuals are a far larger group than you guys are, yet more angry language from competitive players that quite frankly in my sight, does not help your side is reflecting any oblivious casuals that may happen upon your post that the competitive side in fact; as you claim, does not have as many idiots. Your entire post just generally to me, reeked of anger stemming originally as I can only see, the fact that you let a few rotten apples in the opposite side of the argument get to you enough that you would post something like this.
It is not a concept, competitive elitists do exist, but for the sake of fairness for all, I call them idiots. There are idiots on both sides, and your anger is slowly but surely starting to turn you into one, calm down please. Both sides instigate.
DraginHikari
Emerald Star Legacy
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@ Card (Simply not to clutter a long qoute XD)
That was very good and well thought out... and you are quite right concerning the opinion of most casuals. Most of us don't tend to make assoications with overzealous types anymore then the competitives...
As I said before the worse stereotypes are always based on who can yell the loudest in a group.
That was very good and well thought out... and you are quite right concerning the opinion of most casuals. Most of us don't tend to make assoications with overzealous types anymore then the competitives...
As I said before the worse stereotypes are always based on who can yell the loudest in a group.
Seriously. "You started it!" "No, you started it!"
How immature is that?
I understand feeling under attack and having the right to defend yourself but honestly, blaming one side when there are dozens of different opinions on the matter doesn't make any sense, there is casual players who stick up for competitive players and vice versa, so why say the casuals when you could just say the a**holes?
Way to fail. You appear to be trying very hard to be an unreasonable asshat.
Card presents an incredibly clear, concise, reserved and logical post to explain the current state of affairs around here, and you waste no time in utterly disregarding his points and trolling.
I suppose you fall into the idiot category.
Blubba_Pinecone
Smash Ace
Well... to me it just seems that these types of thread seem to bring out the flame wars to begin with. Otherwise they arn't normally too bad. I don't know if this would be the wisest choice, and maybe I'm overlooking something, but can't we just close these threads? The only people who need them is people who can't recognize the difference in the first place, and appart from that, we're all just wasting our precious time by posting about it.... and yes, in all irony, that includes me now. =P
The Problem here is that the elitism most people speak of isn't all ways "go screw yourself noob, you don't wavedash so you suck go away you suck face!!!" though that exists, what really happens is that if you come in as a "not as hard core" a competative player, or have a maybe different view, or you might even be casual; either way, If you don't view the game the way the competative players do or have a different standard for what competative is and believe that competative =/= how many buttons you have to press to execute combo, or that you believe that smash can be competative with different techs than horrendous button pressing; they render your views or arguments complete lies, its similar to saying this:
Timmy- hey johhny, its raining out side!
Johhny- No, raining is good, its not raining
*thunder claps*
Timmy-see johnny? its raining
Johnny-No timmy you're a noob, its not raining.
and then the neutral people on the board always seem to side with the competative players. Whenever someone has a different view of what defines competative they are suddenly by definition wrong. Just because someone opposes the conventional concensus of what competative is, just because they think brawl can be competative or rather IS competative without having to push twenty buttons, somehow they are wrong. That's what elitism is, closed mindedness that comes accross as insulting. its saying "you think not having to push a button to cancel lag is still competative? Well you're wrong, its wrong to think that too", that is elitism. learn to recognize it.
sorry for some bad english in their i've had a long day
Timmy- hey johhny, its raining out side!
Johhny- No, raining is good, its not raining
*thunder claps*
Timmy-see johnny? its raining
Johnny-No timmy you're a noob, its not raining.
and then the neutral people on the board always seem to side with the competative players. Whenever someone has a different view of what defines competative they are suddenly by definition wrong. Just because someone opposes the conventional concensus of what competative is, just because they think brawl can be competative or rather IS competative without having to push twenty buttons, somehow they are wrong. That's what elitism is, closed mindedness that comes accross as insulting. its saying "you think not having to push a button to cancel lag is still competative? Well you're wrong, its wrong to think that too", that is elitism. learn to recognize it.
sorry for some bad english in their i've had a long day
How do you dare call this one of the best sonic combo video out there??!! all he did was fair to fair, along with having the worst english in the universe.
I see what your saying here, but you have to understand that there is a particular way in which the majority of the posters here define competitive play. It doesn't help anyone when you argue based on your OWN definition. If we redefined every word to suit our arguments, there would be no use in arguments. The definition of words are the unchanging rules that define arguments and communication. You can't just change this to suit your own needs.
I think you know well what casual and competitive mean around here. There is no need to redefine these terms.
darkatma
Smash Hero
My my my... what have we here.
This is quite the scene. It seems there has been just a lot of misunderstanding from many members part, while at the same time Yuna and MookieRah have been taking the time to carefully explain their disposition on the subject at hand. Personally I'm still confused as to how there are some people who still haven't understood the point Yuna was trying to make since the first post of this thread.
Yuna, although a tad arrogant in the first post, has brought up an extremely valid point in regards to this "myth" about elitist competitives. Everyone here who has been trying to name 5 elitists has seriously missed the big picture. Although I thought it was fairly obvious... I don't think the purpose Yuna made this thread was for people to go out and search the internet for 5 elitists. The point Yuna was trying to make, since the very first post, was that Competitive Elitists simply do not exist. Maybe the method Yuna used to go about explaining his first post may have been a tad faulty and open to misunderstanding, but the steps Yuna has taken throughout the course of this thread in order to explain his argument and 'break' the myth have been flawless.
To Yuna and MookieRah, I agree with both of you wholeheartedly. You've both managed to stay surprisingly calm and collected during all of your rebuttals for other peoples arguments. In addition to that I feel that you are both working towards bettering the community as a whole just with the creation of this thread.
To the rest, you should listen to the words which are coming out of both their fingers. They are speaking the truth, and are being incredibly sincere and honest in trying to explain their positions on the entire situation. Yet as it stands we are 18 pages in and honestly there hasn't been a single counter-argument that has been able to hold it's ground against what is the actual truth of the SmashBoards which they've both been desperately trying to explain to everyone.
After reading and siphoning through all these pages, I've decided to do my own take on the whole "myth" of the competitive elitists and what not. I decided to start my point with a nice, neat little diagram which should clearly explain exactly what I mean to say (not to mention what has already been stated many times throughout the thread) without any misunderstandings.
This diagram here should be an accurate depiction on the subject at hand. This is a depiction of the current groups of people which can be found roaming SmashBoards, as well as pretty much the Internet as a whole (Youtube, Brawl Central, etc...).
As you can see, it can be broken down into 3 distinct categories. Casual Smasher, Competitive Smasher, and Idiot.
Notice how there is no difference between Casual Smasher and Competitive Smasher apart from the color or flavor. Which is exactly how the two groups of people act. Both groups play Smash Bros, but they each play with their own "flavor" of the game. Neither of them play the game wrong, and neither group tries to convince the other group otherwise.
Then we have the 3rd group... the sort of "gray" area of the boards... the Idiots. These are the ones who cause the REAL problem here. They are the ones responsible for the "Myth" that we have been talking about, They are the ones responsible for the indirect hatred which has spawned between the two groups. I tried to think of a nicer name to call them, but quite frankly I don't think there is anything that is more fitting for them. Notice how the Idiot's aren't really their own entity. The Idiots sort of coexists along side both groups of smashers simultaneously, and they sort of spill over onto either side of the community. The irony in this is that neither side of Smasher really accepts these idiots as being part of their group.
As MookieRah said earlier in this post, a true Competitive Smasher would argue against a Competitive Elitist who is belittling a Casual Smasher.
I am sure that other Casuals would agree as well that a true Casual Smasher wouldn't be happy to see another Casual Scrub running around in a Tournament thread made by Competitives, spouting that they are playing the game wrong or they are playing it against the creators wishes.
Competitive Elitists, Casual Scrubs, and any other derogatory Smasher term with which you can come up with all belong to the group of Idiots who seep their way into both communities, and give the wrong ideas to either crowd.
Competitive Elitists DO NOT Exist in the Competitive Smashers scene.
Casual Scrubs DO NOT Exist in the Casual Smashers scene.
They all belong in the gray Idiot Smashers scene, which to be blunt we should just flat-out ignore.
As a community, this is what we should be telling ourselves;
As a Competitive Smasher, don't look down upon Casual Smashers because some Idiots come into your threads and tell you that you are playing the game wrong.
As a Casual Smasher, don't look down upon Competitive Smashers because some Idiots tell you that you all suck at the game because of your lack of advanced techniques or that you play with Items.
Casual and Competitive Smashers should be able to exist alongside each other in harmony (Euk, that sounds so cliché). Just don't get confused with both scenes with all the idiots running around.
Post-EDIT: Ho ho... looks like I rambled on too much.. Oh well, not much I can do
You know it's nice to see how large and dynamic the community has grown. I've been a member since 2001 (it's true! check my profile!) and I remember the days Smash Melee was about to be released were no where NEAR as vibrant and fiery in comparison to some of the threads we have today!
I can't wait to see how both communities evolve in the coming years.
Quoted for easier accessibility in accordance to MookieRah's post above
This is the best argument I've seen so far.. and the most logical. No one's getting any ground from disdaining and stereotyping. The Smash community has generally been tight knit, I'd like to see that continue, instead of the schism working its way into our threads here.
Kasek
Smash Ace
-ignores thread to post first, will read later-
I remember VERY vividly the time I met a 'Competetive Elitist'. Didn't get his name, though. It was at Anime Mid-Atlantic. He was very good, but not the best.
He was pretty much hating on everyone not in his little circle of competitive buddies, and actually sent my sister away from the Melee table in tears. He said she deserved it for not playing the game seriously. I got ticked, and we had two matches. First was on Hyrule Temple, he barely won. I requested a rematch, Hyrule Temple not quite being the best stage to determine skill. Second match, Final Destination, I pwned him to kingdom come. He johned about it (I would've won on a different stage!). I don't remember his face, but his attitude is unmistakeable. Plus, he was a Jigglypuff main. Anyone know any villainous Jigglypuff mains around here?
I remember VERY vividly the time I met a 'Competetive Elitist'. Didn't get his name, though. It was at Anime Mid-Atlantic. He was very good, but not the best.
He was pretty much hating on everyone not in his little circle of competitive buddies, and actually sent my sister away from the Melee table in tears. He said she deserved it for not playing the game seriously. I got ticked, and we had two matches. First was on Hyrule Temple, he barely won. I requested a rematch, Hyrule Temple not quite being the best stage to determine skill. Second match, Final Destination, I pwned him to kingdom come. He johned about it (I would've won on a different stage!). I don't remember his face, but his attitude is unmistakeable. Plus, he was a Jigglypuff main. Anyone know any villainous Jigglypuff mains around here?
darkatma
Smash Hero
Read the post above =[
Problem2
Smash Champion
I hear from many of the (possibly) better players that if I don't play at tournaments, then I'm not "competitive". Whether or not these people are trying to be rude, I feel pushed back from something I wanted to join. Sure, I should just join or start tournaments, but I've tried everything to get tournaments started and so far smasher here generally said "sure why not" and then don't show.
That's fine with me though. I have a pretty good rival and the one tournament we did go to, we ended up against each other in the grand finals. I can shffl in Melee just fine and wavedashing is second nature. It's only sort of a shame that Gamestop hadn't held a big tournament once with Melee. Maybe we could have shown what we are capable of.
We both do plan on showing at Gamestop's Brawl tournament though, but neither of us have played Brawl, so we are unsure of how much skill will transfer between the two games. It's a win/win situation in my opinion anyways. If I win, I get to go on to the next round and maybe get some recognizition. If I lose, than I just found some more people to play Smash against.
That's fine with me though. I have a pretty good rival and the one tournament we did go to, we ended up against each other in the grand finals. I can shffl in Melee just fine and wavedashing is second nature. It's only sort of a shame that Gamestop hadn't held a big tournament once with Melee. Maybe we could have shown what we are capable of.
We both do plan on showing at Gamestop's Brawl tournament though, but neither of us have played Brawl, so we are unsure of how much skill will transfer between the two games. It's a win/win situation in my opinion anyways. If I win, I get to go on to the next round and maybe get some recognizition. If I lose, than I just found some more people to play Smash against.
Yes, but you see, this is the Brawl disscusion board, and any agrument over elitism relevant to Brawl must be observed. Most of it comes from the dissagreement of whether or not Brawl will be as 'competative' as melee. And being that it is a new game, though still smash, you have two sides: one group applying melee standards still seeing through "the Melee colored glass" if you will, and one group trying to be open minded about it (usually left over casuals from melee who now wish to be competative with the release of brawl).
so the accepted definitions can't always be applied, and if you dissagree you're by definition wrong. Having an attitude like that in any community is just fertilizer for Idiots. So we need to stop that. we need to drop all definitions in disscusion of competativeness and tech skill.
I've said before that the elitism for this series is somewhat unusual for the fighting genre.
I also find it odd that most of the elitists are coming out of the woodwork now that Brawl is about to hit. I think the reason for this, is that they established some small amount of e-cred, and with a new game coming out they feel threatened. I guess its understandable to an extent. But most elitists here, rather, the tourneyf*gs, take it to the extremes.
It borders on religious fanaticism. A Smash player must not only compete in tournaments, but also by your own convoluted rules in order to be given any kind of respect from you miserable punks. Its kinda pathetic. Whats even more pathetic is that most of you refuse to see what you're saying is in anyway arrogant or just flat out false.
Anyway, with Brawl about to launch, you're back to square one. Watching you lash about trying to establish dominance before ever having played the game is so deliciously piquant. I'm thinking of Mookie's choice remarks about the casual crowd at the Gamestop tournament as I say this.
Its interesting, really. Its like you're trying to make yourselves believe the things you preach, not everyone else. Which is probably a good thing, since most everyone else isn't listening to you anyway.
I also find it odd that most of the elitists are coming out of the woodwork now that Brawl is about to hit. I think the reason for this, is that they established some small amount of e-cred, and with a new game coming out they feel threatened. I guess its understandable to an extent. But most elitists here, rather, the tourneyf*gs, take it to the extremes.
It borders on religious fanaticism. A Smash player must not only compete in tournaments, but also by your own convoluted rules in order to be given any kind of respect from you miserable punks. Its kinda pathetic. Whats even more pathetic is that most of you refuse to see what you're saying is in anyway arrogant or just flat out false.
Anyway, with Brawl about to launch, you're back to square one. Watching you lash about trying to establish dominance before ever having played the game is so deliciously piquant. I'm thinking of Mookie's choice remarks about the casual crowd at the Gamestop tournament as I say this.
Its interesting, really. Its like you're trying to make yourselves believe the things you preach, not everyone else. Which is probably a good thing, since most everyone else isn't listening to you anyway.
Kasek
Smash Ace
Ah, hmm... calling him an idiot DOES sound better than saying he was a competetive elitist. Easier to remember, and still insulting.
kilroy
Smash Journeyman
@Card
Venn diagram FTW.
Venn diagram FTW.
Kasek
Smash Ace
Wait a sec... relabeling the competitive elitists 'idiots'... when, at the sametime, you're proving competitive elitists don't exist... are you saying idiots don't exist? My life is a lie! I've been surrounded by imaginary people for what seems an eternity now!
NES n00b
Smash Master
Troll is still troll. I would give you an 8/10 if you didn't totally give yourself away last time. But hey, good look convincing yourself and others that you are somehow superior to those mean old tourney***s ruining your fun. ='(
The truth is that we don't have to look at Brawl through Melee colored glass because Brawl is not so different from Melee. Both games share many fundamental similarities. It is not a completely different game as so many suggest. There is much to learn and adopt from Melee in the conversion to Brawl and much of the things that applied in Melee apply in Brawl. That's a fact.
Items will still present players with random and unearned advantages and thus will be left off.
Certain stages will still present some characters with unfair advantages or disrupt the match too much and will be avoided in competitive play.
Many of the techniques that were pivotal to competitive play in Melee such as short hopping, edgehogging, and DI are still pivotal in Brawl.
Competitive players will still be defined as those who play to win without relying on luck and casual players will still be defined as those who play to have fun and "play the game the way it was intended".
You pretty much fall into the idiot category that Card described. This is a competitive Smash forum. Of course we'd have some accepted guidelines for how we play the game, but who's forcing YOU to play Smash the way WE do? Why does it matter to you that we choose to play Smash within particular guidelines to achieve the highest level of competition and reduce random factors?
And you really need to get this idea out of your head that the Melee veterans are suddenly lost and reduced to nothing now that they are playing Brawl.
Brawl simply isn't that different from Melee. If you were good at Melee, it won't take much for you to be good at Brawl. All you have to do is adjust your play style to the changes that have been implemented.
Melee pros aren't good due to advanced techs alone. It's the mastery of those techs COMBINED with great reflexes and strategy that made them great.
We may not have all those advanced techs in Brawl YET, but we still have our brains as well as basic techs.
A Melee vet will most likely know how to use basic techs better than any casual n00b. They don't need advanced techs to own in Brawl.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
What I said was true. Casual players play in patterns. They don't need to play any differently to beat their friends, because they aren't treating the game as rigorously and competitively. It's different in the realm of competitive play because you are forced by other players out of habitual play and the focus is on adapting directly to your opponent. There are exceptions to this, and there are casual players who don't fit this mold; however, they are a rare breed. I've yet to meet one personally, but I know they exist because of the early great smashers were these kinds of people before the scene developed.
This is all basic information, and is only insulting if you are predisposed to hating the competitive scene. I don't know who wronged you in what way, but you seriously need to understand that the competitive scene isn't what you are making them out to be.
Also, I wanted to mention that I'm still open to playing you for friendly matches in Brawl. I'm assuming you are an Atlanta resident, so the lag wouldn't be all that bad. I don't want to play you as a way to assert superiority, I'd just like to have a friendly match to relieve some tension between the two of us.
I'm also still going to Momocon, and I realize that two years ago it was run very poorly; however, that was largely in part due to people not showing up with tvs and cubes that said they would. I'm pretty sure it ran much much smoother last year, and probably will be even smoother this year. The con is free, and there will be a lot of fun smashing going on. I think if we talked face to face you'd realize that competitive players are humans too.
Kasek
Smash Ace
....this might be a bit off topic, but reading MookieRah's last post there... I don't know, I imagine MookieRah having a deep, nearly-Vaderish voice for some odd reason... creepy. Must be the avatar.
Anyhoo... I guess I don't have much of a right to post here. I play both casual and competitive (however, I never get the chanceto play in tournaments). Please don't tell me that puts me in the idiot category...
Anyhoo... I guess I don't have much of a right to post here. I play both casual and competitive (however, I never get the chanceto play in tournaments). Please don't tell me that puts me in the idiot category...
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
LOL, that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm far from sounding like James Earl Jones.
I aggree, But there's still a load of Competative players from Melee saying Brawl isn't as competative because it lacks specific button imputs from the last game. That's what im addressing, yes the fundamental advanced techniques (Oxymoron FTW) remain; but that's not enough for these people, they think those button imputs are what defines competative smash, and what they do to the game is what defines competative and anyone who disaggrees is just wrong, it doesn't matter that brawl is still a different game and the advanced button imputs may be different, you're wrong for dissaggreeing with me and the mods support me so STFU. That attitude though based in logic is what people such as Dylan_Tnga thrive on and it is asking for idiots to be spawned, it is the "bud" if you will that we must nip.
So true. Really, just so true. Yuna is my favourite attention ****** for the SmashBoards.
My opinion is that the "elite" corner is going to break at one point. There are just around 10-25% real hardcore players out there and with the coming online gameplay in brawl the another player will become much better. Everyone can improve him/herself just with random matches every day. All these Anti-Brawl Bash Threads? Laughable threads for people who fears the coming competition online. They have gone to many competitions and worked hard for the respect and the fighting-ability and now everyone can become good via the Internet. Isn't it ironic?
NES n00b
Smash Master
People like you are never taken seriously. And by you I don't mean casuals, I mean some troll who happens to be some really whiney scrub trying to get some attention. Congratulations. I just gave you some.
How many Halo 2, Counter Strike, and Starcraft pros do you know who got good by just going online? Yeah, I think none.
plasmatorture
Smash Journeyman
Flaming is never warranted. You will not convince someone they're wrong by calling them a stupid ******* with **** for brains, you'll only be able to change their opinion with kind, logical discussion. This is basic human interaction. The only time flames might be warranted are with obvious trolls, who just want attention anyways so it's a waste of time to even bother.
I agree, it's perfectly fine to try to correct someone for being wrong, but flaming and acting elitist isn't the way to do it. Again, unless they're blatantly trolling, then they will listen to a calm, collected, non-elitist discussion about how they're wrong. Less "I've played 10x more brawl than anyone else, I know the game will suck competitively, I know it and it is the truth and you'll have to believe me or get out" and more "You know, I've actually played quite a bit of brawl, and it really doesn't seem like it'll be nearly as competitive as melee is because it's lacking the depth - due to glitches or not - that melee had."
The people who are loud and obnoxious and don't care about who they offend are probably trolls, who should be ignored.
Unfortuantley, no matter how true it is that casual players are terrible compared to competitive players, the "truth" of things is not the only thing that matters in communicating with other human beings. Humans aren't robots. Humans have feelings, and perceptions, and other such things that should be taken into account. To someone who is casual, the statements "Casual players far and away are terrible at the game, compared to competitive players" and "Most casual players probably haven't devoted as much time and effort into mastering the game's intricacies, while competitive players usually go through that work to get to where they're at. To put it into perspective, even an all-star High School Basketball player wouldn't be able to compete too well in the NBA", while saying the same thing, are WORLDS a part.
The first one is a blunt, elitist flame, despite its truths. It implies a terrible negativity towards this person and that they suck at the very game itself. The latter, on the other hand, gives a more optomistic outlook, and even gives them the opportunity to feel they actually are good at things (on a "high school" level) and that maybe there are deeper things to explore that they haven't yet.
Simple: don't get upset at them.
It's when you guys get upset at them that you lose your calm and act elitist.
The people who act like you're describing want to troll your community. They are not casual players, they are trolls. They don't deserve attention, and if they can get a rise out of you, they've won. Not only do they entertain themselves, but they get you people to present an elitist attitude, so they can go back to whatever nether-reaches of the internet they come from and show how "elitist" this forum is and how funny it was to get such reactions.
This is one of the most popular (if not THE most) smash discussion forums and smash is hugely popular. A large amount of trolls is something the mod team is going to have to deal with. :/
Especially when the video game board of 4chan, the largest community of trolls on the net, absolutley loathes competitive rules a whole for whatever reason. I wouldn't be surprised if the more recent issues are caused by that.
Not sure where you got the idea that I'm not trying to compete? I'm not at a competitive level, sure, but I'm working on things and have been learning ATs at a rapid pace lately in melee (which sucks cause they're all about to go to waste for me). I'm technically a casual player still at this point, but I consider myself more a competitive player in training than anything else. When it comes to this argument, though, I wanted to shed some insight on how this "casual vs competitive war" is happening. It's a combination of misconceptions, arrogance, and miscommunication - on BOTH ends. Card basically hit the nail on the head, but I think he missed that even the non-idiot sections can certainly come off as being idiots if they don't communicate properly.
I'm sorry for telling you that, but trolling works different. Just check the ED Article for it.
I know enough people who became competetive after they've played for 2-3 months. At some point you don't need no new knowledge, but experience. If you can stay at the endurance run you will improve a lot. Have you ever played Go/Baduk? It works like every good game. Rules are easy to learn in 5 minutes, but the game needs years to master.
PXG
Smash Journeyman
Quote for mother****ing truth. Yet, sadly, people will STILL attempt to argue against this.
NES n00b
Smash Master
So if you play a level one computer over and over you can be pro? Please think about what I am trying to say with that last question.
I never said something about the level, that was your throw-in. It is easy for me to compare with Go. You learn from strong players very quick. Habits, Priorities and Technics. To make it simple: One time you'll for sure play against a weaker gamer in the Brawl Random Matches. If you want it or not, you'll improve him with every attack. Even when he's just getting a sense about the advanced technics and will search for it on the internet.
Like said in my first posting. The competition will grow and imo that's the reason for the outcry in many different ways.
thesage
Smash Hero
Just like how everybody is pro status at Halo right? All Halo tournaments are online and you gain skill by beating players that probably suck balls at the game.
The only people who I'm playing online are my friends, people who want to get better by playing me, and some random scrub who thinks he's the best at this game. Hardly anybody in the competitive scene will play in the with anybody mode.
You also do not only go to tournaments to just get better, but to also have fun as well. I prefer talking with some people instead of smashing in my room by myself with some people online. You also have to get your mind adjusted to playing in a competitive environement. I've played smash64 online and attended melee tournaments. They are vastly different.
I had people to play melee with since the game was released and I didn't start playing worth anything until like a year ago.
Yes there will be new members to the competitive scene. Yes some of those new members will rise to the top (this even happened in melee with players like KDJ), but you'll probably get there by playing with people who are pushing the metagame limits of brawl. Not some people that press the attack button in the direction an oppoenent is coming.
I want to add more, but I need to go to sleep.
Edit: KDJ became good after like 6-12 months from playing the top pros nonstop for that long. Plus he's also good at other fighter games too (i think he's ranked in another fighter game, but IDK which one).
- Status