Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[TombstoneHD]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but what characters do you guys think would benefit the most from Bidou? Benefit the least from Bidou? I may try to practice this technique over the summer and I was looking to see if there were any characters worth playing with the new button layouts/techniques.

 

[KniteBlargh]

I'm no expert on Bidou (Who is?), but it should be noted that just about every character who can wall jump gets a bit more use out of the set-up than those who can't, because of the possible ledge shenanigans. I believe My Smash Corner focused on Bidou ledge stuff in one video, so you might want to look for that if you haven't already.

Sorry, don't have much more to suggest than that; might want to check out the general or competitive boards to see if anyone's started a Bidou thread where you could get better info.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Characters that benefit most from Bidou are those who gain advantages from perfect pivots, slide approaches, and double-sided hitboxes. So those who get the most out of it are .

 

[TombstoneHD]

Thanks to both of you! I'll see if anyone is talking about it in another board. And that's really good to hear, as I am actually interested in labbing Greninja.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Thanks to both of you! I'll see if anyone is talking about it in another board. And that's really good to hear, as I am actually interested in labbing Greninja.

Also would benefit for easy tipper hits. too. There isn't anyone who doesn't benefit really. Good to hear you're going for . A very underrated character. He does very well against and other top tiers.

 

[TombstoneHD]

Also would benefit for easy tipper hits. too. There isn't anyone who doesn't benefit really. Good to hear you're going for . A very underrated character. He does very well against and other top tiers.

Well I figured that all characters would benefit from Bidou, but I assume some characters can abuse the new techniques more. And yeah, Greninja is a very cool character. I'd love to step into my scene as not only a Greninja player, but also a Bidou player, to spice things up. What does Gren have to give him good match-ups with Bayo, other top tiers, etc?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Well I figured that all characters would benefit from Bidou, but I assume some characters can abuse the new techniques more. And yeah, Greninja is a very cool character. I'd love to step into my scene as not only a Greninja player, but also a Bidou player, to spice things up. What does Gren have to give him good match-ups with Bayo, other top tiers, etc?

His speed, combos, tricky tools, and projectile all allows you to be a force to be recorded with. He's just overall really good.

 

[Rioku]

Well I figured that all characters would benefit from Bidou, but I assume some characters can abuse the new techniques more. And yeah, Greninja is a very cool character. I'd love to step into my scene as not only a Greninja player, but also a Bidou player, to spice things up. What does Gren have to give him good match-ups with Bayo, other top tiers, etc?

Just to throw out a suggestions for bidou characters, has the longest perfect pivot in the game by a mile in speed form and bidou lets him move in ways traditional control scheme Shulks could only dream of. Bidou also makes momentum reversing on monado activation much easier and you can do a lot with that. Only downside to Shulk is he's already rather hard to play well and he's a completely terrible character.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Update on me: I was playing friends and used and ended up beating the crap out of them! They would use . Lol wut?!? I'm still deciding my counter to since he beats down on my and I'd like a 3rd anyways. I think I'm adding him to the list. Which is . My sacred seven lol. Don't worry in tournament I'll use 3 at most.

Edit: just kidding about lol it was just a random burst or something.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

" he's a completely terrible character."
You're kidding, right? If Shulk's sword was any faster, he'd be quite the buster. (ba-dum ching)
Bidou makes this already technical character even better. If you are able to become a master of Monado arts, Shulk is brutal, taking full advantage of the longest sword and largest counter window in the game.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

After playing characters for fun I think I like Ike. (Sorry for the pun) should I pick him up? I'm thinking of doing a fire emblem characters only team for competitive. This would be out of (not he just feels weird to me) what do you guys think? Should I do this or would it uderly be better to stick with what I've got ( and ). Or should I do a swordsmen team? Which would be out of

 

[adz]

After playing characters for fun I think I like Ike. (Sorry for the pun) should I pick him up? I'm thinking of doing a fire emblem characters only team for competitive. This would be out of (not he just feels weird to me) what do you guys think? Should I do this or would it uderly be better to stick with what I've got ( and ). Or should I do a swordsmen team? Which would be out of

stick to one or two characters for competitive, not a team of 6, that's insane. ike is good, and many people also use corrin to relieve ike's bad matchups. also, a pocket meta knight is good for rosaluma, but your mileage may vary.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

stick to one or two characters for competitive, not a team of 6, that's insane. ike is good, and many people also use corrin to relieve ike's bad matchups. also, a pocket meta knight is good for rosaluma, but you're mileage may vary.

I wouldn't use 6 I'd use like 3 at most. But thanks I'll stick with what I got and continue looking for my 3rd out of .

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Heh. So I play even more characters now. I can literally counterpick with almost every character in the cast.
I'm a main, that's for sure. But Zelda isn't complete yet. She's viable, but missing something to complete her kit.
I need to finalize an interim main. I'd say it's , but I'm just not sure. I have a ridiculous amount of characters to choose from, so bear with me here... this is who I'm comfortable co-maining out of my many choices. They need to pair well with Zelda.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Heh. So I play even more characters now. I can literally counterpick with almost every character in the cast.
I'm a main, that's for sure. But Zelda isn't complete yet. She's viable, but missing something to complete her kit.
I need to finalize an interim main. I'd say it's , but I'm just not sure. I have a ridiculous amount of characters to choose from, so bear with me here... this is who I'm comfortable co-maining out of my many choices. They need to pair well with Zelda.

. One of them

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Why did I post this?
Move along.

I'm never playing For Glory ever again, I'm absolutely horrible at spam-forcing lag.
Don't even complain to me that it's "no johns", because lag is a real issue on For Glory that affects some players much more than others. When my attacks come out half a second after I input them, I will lose. Deal with it!

Now that that rant is over, I'm proud to announce... that I still have no main. I played a bunch of local friendlies and had mixed results with every character I played. I'd dominate one game and get destroyed the next, and it didn't matter what character I played.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Why did I post this?
Move along.

I'm never playing For Glory ever again, I'm absolutely horrible at spam-forcing lag.
Don't even complain to me that it's "no johns", because lag is a real issue on For Glory that affects some players much more than others. When my attacks come out half a second after I input them, I will lose. Deal with it!

Now that that rant is over, I'm proud to announce... that I still have no main. I played a bunch of local friendlies and had mixed results with every character I played. I'd dominate one game and get destroyed the next, and it didn't matter what character I played.

What's your favorite game series? Out of those represented in smash character? Trust me this will help. Also I deal with input lag 24/7 so I know how you feel. So I just play friendlies or CPUs.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

By that logic, I get . The reason I don't co-main him is that though I play well with his core set, when it comes to competition all that he is known for is footstooling, which I'm really bad at. Sometimes I pull it off, but not enough. Also, he's crazy fast, and I like to be more paced. (hence villager and zelda)

If Inkling, Isaac, or Sceptile were in this game, I'd be playing them. Also Wolf, because he's perfectly my style.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

By that logic, I get . The reason I don't co-main him is that though I play well with his core set, when it comes to competition all that he is known for is footstooling, which I'm really bad at. Sometimes I pull it off, but not enough. Also, he's crazy fast, and I like to be more paced. (hence villager and zelda)

If Inkling, Isaac, or Sceptile were in this game, I'd be playing them. Also Wolf, because he's perfectly my style.

Then what about ? You like pokemon. Try using the pokemon. Too. That's how I picked my main. I love fire emblem and Roy is very comfortable to me.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

too much of a risk/reward style, too heavy, though a good choice, seriously, why, tried, not good enough, explained several times.
Though faster than Mewtwo, much more controlled and well-rounded. Unfortunately down special is still worthless, and I'm really bad at footstooling so I can't get a full footstool combo.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

too much of a risk/reward style, too heavy, though a good choice, seriously, why, tried, not good enough, explained several times.
Though faster than Mewtwo, much more controlled and well-rounded. Unfortunately down special is still worthless, and I'm really bad at footstooling so I can't get a full footstool combo.

You can try different stuff with besides footstooling, or practice footstooling a lot. Also what's your 2nd favorite series?

 

[Dream Cancel]

Heh. So I play even more characters now. I can literally counterpick with almost every character in the cast.
I'm a main, that's for sure. But Zelda isn't complete yet. She's viable, but missing something to complete her kit.
I need to finalize an interim main. I'd say it's , but I'm just not sure. I have a ridiculous amount of characters to choose from, so bear with me here... this is who I'm comfortable co-maining out of my many choices. They need to pair well with Zelda.

Corrin and Lucas are the closest to Zelda amongst those. Corrin is a spiky sea urchin of hit boxes with similar movement qualities as Zelda, and Lucas leans more towards the current meta of higher tiers with all of his available options. One has more range while the other doesn't, but both are close enough to Zelda's kit to give a shot.

Greninja is a real change of pace, especially play style-wise. Heavy bait n punish/footsies style with emphasis on evasive maneuvering and playing on your terms. Perhaps take a page out of his book and add it to your Zelda play? I got nothing on Palutena lol. Villager, WFT, and Toon Link are all in the same general class, so if zoning/turtling is your cup of tea then go for it.

I don't have any specific answers besides those, but I recommend going through a pros/cons analysis of Zelda, then choosing a character that covers as many weaknesses as possible that you're comfortable playing. If not, then perhaps give someone new a try. Idk you do what you want but you need to be decisive. Pick someone and just play, play, play. Improving fundamentals and simply getting more experience can make up for any current weaknesses you may have as a player or with Zelda.

Let me use a personal example to illustrate. I use Fox, Robin, Rosalina & Luma, and Lucina. I'm testing the main waters with Robin right now but these are my best characters. Fox is a clear outlier here. However, things I've learned from playing strong zoning and constantly weighing my zoning options for the best result, combined with Fox's move set creates a very precise, zone-breaking play style that presses buttons only by necessity. On the other hand, my Fox and Lucina experience has taught me to incorporate more movement tech and jump mix-ups into my Rosalina play, thus improving my general defense because I'm more unpredictable.

I'm not saying my style is invincible or anything, far from it. But you need to engineer your own playstyle. Keep what seems to work and throw out what doesn't seem to work, and keep in mind that general improvement in your gameplay (or more match up knowledge) can open new doors or re-open old ones thought to be previously closed.

Tl;dr Try out Corrin and be decisive.
P.S. I made a lot of assumptions, but I hope you get the gist of it. And I rewrote this like 4 times trying to figure out what I was going to say lol. Have fun.

 

[DarkAuraful]

Just out of curiosity, would anyone know a good secondary for Lucina's bad match ups? I kinda have an idea that her bad match ups would people with good ground game (Sonic, Rosalinda, Diddy Kong, Little Mac) or people with multiple projectiles (Villager, Link). I hate dealing with a good Ike and R.O.B. if any of that helps.

Same thing for Corrin.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Just out of curiosity, would anyone know a good secondary for Lucina's bad match ups? I kinda have an idea that her bad match ups would people with good ground game (Sonic, Rosalinda, Diddy Kong, Little Mac) or people with multiple projectiles (Villager, Link). I hate dealing with a good Ike and R.O.B. if any of that helps.

Same thing for Corrin.

One of these. Also will do the trick

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Holy crap, first hit of jab combos into short hop rest. Jigglypuff might finally have something going for her...
though I'm absolutely not maining her, this is mainly for KniteBlargh and other people guided to Puff by this thread

Personally, and are the best options off the above list
Also, thanks to Dream Cancel for the prior analysis, that really helped

 

[bubbyq12]

So I thought I knew my play style, but then I realized that all the characters I like to play as are very different. I know I'm not a technical player, but other than that I am confused as to what my play style is and which character I should main. For reference I like playing as and. Which one of them should I pick? Do they have any thing about their play styles in common that I could use? Thanks!

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So I thought I knew my play style, but then I realized that all the characters I like to play as are very different. I know I'm not a technical player, but other than that I am confused as to what my play style is and which character I should main. For reference I like playing as and. Which one of them should I pick? Do they have any thing about their play styles in common that I could use? Thanks!

Well you like range. Most of these guys are actually Rushdown/ aggressive that can be campy if they must. All do this for sure. I'm not so sure about though. How many characters do you wanna use? And do you want to use low tiers? Or do you want results?

 

[bubbyq12]

Well you like range. Most of these guys are actually Rushdown/ aggressive that can be campy if they must. All do this for sure. I'm not so sure about though. How many characters do you wanna use? And do you want to use low tiers? Or do you want results?

I would like to have one or two mains and a secondary. I don't usually like using top tier characters but I kind of made the exception for Bayo because she's really fun for me to use. I would put enjoyment above results, and I'm also willing to work with a difficult character if I find them fun.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I would like to have one or two mains and a secondary. I don't usually like using top tier characters but I kind of made the exception for Bayo because she's really fun for me to use. I would put enjoyment above results, and I'm also willing to work with a difficult character if I find them fun.

In that case use and how would you rank the others fun wise? Like out of 10 who do you have more fun with?

 

[bubbyq12]

9/10 (I just started using her and she's pretty fun but I'm afraid that I'm going to reach her skull cap too quickly and then get bored cause she's kind of easy to use.)
9/10 (Winning with her is so satisfying but, it's sometimes hard to be so patient with her. I love her move set though, and enjoy the challenge most times.)

8/10 ( I find that I sometimes get too spammy with him, but when I get into the proper mindset I like using him. But his reliance on Gyros bother me.)

9/10 (I've played him and Villager since the beginning, and I love playing as him, but I've never been able to come close to winning a For Glory tournament (the only character I've won a tournament with is Bayonetta) with him, and I do terrible with him when I play on Anther's ladder. But I still love him and the complexity of his character.)

8/10 (Of all characters, I feel the most comfortable with him. I love the stuff he can do and the uniqueness of his move set, but sometimes I get bored of his spacing. I can come close to winning FG tourneys with him but have never won one, so sometimes I get discouraged.)

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

9/10 (I just started using her and she's pretty fun but I'm afraid that I'm going to reach her skull cap too quickly and then get bored cause she's kind of easy to use.)
9/10 (Winning with her is so satisfying but, it's sometimes hard to be so patient with her. I love her move set though, and enjoy the challenge most times.)

8/10 ( I find that I sometimes get too spammy with him, but when I get into the proper mindset I like using him. But his reliance on Gyros bother me.)

9/10 (I've played him and Villager since the beginning, and I love playing as him, but I've never been able to come close to winning a For Glory tournament (the only character I've won a tournament with is Bayonetta) with him, and I do terrible with him when I play on Anther's ladder. But I still love him and the complexity of his character.)

8/10 (Of all characters, I feel the most comfortable with him. I love the stuff he can do and the uniqueness of his move set, but sometimes I get bored of his spacing. I can come close to winning FG tourneys with him but have never won one, so sometimes I get discouraged.)

I'd say use with . And then if you decide to drop one of them pick up

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

I'd wait on, because there are some places that don't allow you to use her combos.
is always a good choice. A super underrated character with some great matchups.
is hyper-defensive, but thanks to her few buffs can now pull off a surprisingly effective aerial rushdown.

I will not be playing . Too similar in movement to Zelda, I don't like the character, and I'm prone to spamming.
I'll be focusing on the betterment of the Zelda metagame, so as backups I'm going to play , as suggested, with as a "top tier option".

 

[bubbyq12]

I'd say use with . And then if you decide to drop one of them pick up

Ok. I'll try them out. Thanks!

 

[bubbyq12]

I'd wait on, because there are some places that don't allow you to use her combos.
is always a good choice. A super underrated character with some great matchups.
is hyper-defensive, but thanks to her few buffs can now pull off a surprisingly effective aerial rushdown.

I will not be playing . Too similar in movement to Zelda, I don't like the character, and I'm prone to spamming.
I'll be focusing on the betterment of the Zelda metagame, so as backups I'm going to play , as suggested, with as a "top tier option".

Why should I wait on Bayo? (What do you mean by not allowed to use her combos?)

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Pick her up if you want to, but Bayo's 0-to-death combos get a olot of flak from the community. Several tournaments don't allow the combos to be used, and sometimes Bayonetta as a whole is banned. So tread at your own risk.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Hey guys I've been watching videos about the new Bidou tech. What do you all think about it? Should I try using it? I struggle a lot with getting pivots and stuff anyway and with it in doing it with ease. Should I pick it up? Or would it be too difficult for a rookie?

 

[bubbyq12]

Pick her up if you want to, but Bayo's 0-to-death combos get a olot of flak from the community. Several tournaments don't allow the combos to be used, and sometimes Bayonetta as a whole is banned. So tread at your own risk.

So if I was going to replace Bayo who out of the characters I said I liked should I replace her with? Or should I just co main and?

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Rookies are the best target for Bidou. Since they're not 100% adapted to the controls, they're the best to convert early on.
If you really want to play Mario and Roy, there's not much benefit to switching your controls.

 

[DarkAuraful]

One of these. Also will do the trick

Hm... figures these would be the picks. Though I'm surprised for Cloud, Olimar and Pikachu, the rest make sense. Thanks anyways. I'll try at least one of them out.

 

[FasdfGfaha]

Hello all. I don't post here often (Total lurker), but I've seem to have run into a small dilemma.

I've been maining since 64, and while I like to think I'm decent with him, I haven't been able to take any locals yet due to the high skill level of the players in my area.This isn't really a problem, but I get shut down by some of the faster, more aggressive characters. I'm still going to focus on Link and learn the matchups better, but I also wanted to grab a secondary as an answer to the tougher matchups to make things a bit easier.
I noticed a bit recently that I play a more aggressive Link when compared to others, so I decided to try out at my last local. It went surprisingly well, and I think he fits my natural playstyle a bit better, but my level of play is still much higher with Link. However, with time and practice, I think my Roy could potentially overshadow my Link.

The problem stems from the fact that I'm very attached to Link as a character, while although Fire Emblem is my second favorite Nintendo series outside of LoZ, Roy is my least favorite of the FE characters, so I'm not 100% sold on him yet. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Roy shares a lot of bad matchups with Link, so picking up both of them doesn't seem like the best option, and I don't want to have more than two competitive characters if I don't need to.

I was also toying with and as potential secondaries, but I've been getting mixed results when putting them into practice. Someone also pointed me towards as a good way to compliment Link, but as a character, I'm more of a fan of the latter two. While none of them have clicked like Roy did, I haven't given them the same amount of time, either (Roy got a dedicated two weeks after I decided to give him a shot.)

Mostly for reference, other characters I mess around with for fun and like to play for fun are and . While I wouldn't mind actually picking up Robin or Lucas, it doesn't seem like they would help much in the macro sense.