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The Lucas Hitbox thread - Added Dsmash (first hit) & fsmash

Irsic

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Lucas Hitbox Thread
Hello and welcome! Here is where we will be discussing and posting images of Lucas' hitboxes. I'd like to let everyone know that this is a work in progress, things will change as further research is done, these are not cold hard facts as they are likely to change because this is a very visual process, and others may see it better than I do, and I can fix them. Right now I have 4 attacks that I've started working on, and these are subject to change as feedback comes in.

Disclaimer: Apparently credit for a hitbox topic being done in this fashion goes to djbrowny. Good job.

Let's get started. First off -


Up air!



This attack starts about mid-way through Lucas' body, and extends a bit above his head. I couldn't get the attack to extend farther than that flash of light that appears, and as we all knew already, the attack extends farther behind him than in front of him. A little counter productive, don't you know? Having to turn around to use your attacks to the greatest of their abilities...

Next, Ftilt!



This attack doesn't have much vertical range, and doesn't really extend behind Lucas, but it does hit inside his body. The black and white curved line is the path his hand takes, and that is the sour spot of the attack. This has great range, but I'm unsure about 2 possible things:

1) The very edge of the attack. It was very hard to judge this correctly, but I did my best.
2) The vertical range of this attack may be shorter than I have shown. I'm not entirely sure, but the hitbox gets lifted upwards when you angle it up a bit, obviously giving it a greater vertical bend.

Third, dtilt!



Dtilt, as expected, hits low to the ground and extends quite a bit past Lucas' foot. I'm quite sure about this one, but what I'm not quite sure about his far into Lucas' body the hitbox extends. It's not much, but I might not be 100% accurate. This attack basically has no vertical range. Easily short hopped over.

and fourth, utilt.



Utilt, one ape **** crazy disjointed move. Obviously as shown here, the hitbox extends much farther behind Lucas than it does in front of him. (he is facing left) The hitbox also cones upward from being a really fat hitbox at the bottom, but a really small hitbox at the top. Go figure.

First update from original post, I'm probably going to do another tonight as well. Here we go.

D smash! The first hit of it, that is. Not all the hitboxes of this attack are the same.


I checked every angle of this first hit. Too bad Lucas doesn't strike a pose and shoot both sides of him, eh? What a massive hitbox.

Fsmash!


The hitbox here, extends just slightly past the tip, but enough to make a difference, as I'm sure we've all had that encounter where we went "Holy ****, I can't believe I was in range for that." And I know we've also had that encounter with the backswing, but it's really from just standing inside Lucas body. Just standing behind him doesn't cut it. His feet are a weird hitbox too, as it rises a little bit past them.
 

c3gill

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im really looking forward to seeing U-smash.... its gonna take up half the screen.

Nice idea, good topic, and awesome pictures.
 

Tyr_03

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I think you should show the entire range of Ftilt including angled down, straight, and upward.

I like it so far. Though I have to say it's really hard to be sure of these hitboxes. It's a very difficult thing to accurately test.

Also, I have no idea how in God's name you're going to show Dair's hitbox since it shifts depending on your aerial movement speed and direction...good luck with that...
 

Irsic

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I've already thought about those things with dair. :\ It's going to be really hard but I'm going to show them as seperate hit boxes, being the part that telegraphs being a different hitbox and will shift with your momentum.

I couldn't even get all the screen shots for dsmash as it was annoying me trying to time the 2nd and 3rd hits. x_x
 

Levitas

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If you hit something with Dsmash, it'll be a lot easier to get the shot. Otherwise, you have to try for 1 frame windows on each of those hits :)
 

Irsic

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<_<

No wonder. I actually did get the third or the second hit but accidentally unpaused without saving the shot. x_x
 

Browny

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hmmmmm

Please be sure to credit my work in the original post since its quite obvious you took the idea + method from my original thread.
 

DarkLouis331

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I'm not a Lucas main, but I wish more character boards made this kind of thread. Very useful information! :bee:
 

:mad:

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I can't wait to see how disjointed downtilt is. :bee:
Nice work, Irsic. Upsmash is gonna be a riot.
 

c3gill

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This thread inspired me to make a diagram about snake:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9947/snakehitutilt.jpg

I would have posted it here with moar image tags, but I don't feel like stretching the screen, nor do I feel like resizing the image
Is it just me, or is Snake trying to..... catch a view of his "Cash and Prizes" midkick?

his head looks like its at a 90 degree angle to his neck.

and that D-smash hitbox is CRAZY. it is literally bigger than Lucas. I really like this concept of pictures to express how large/where exactly his hitbox is, rather than abstract numbers. This just gets better with the more images you add.
 

Xyless

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I'm normally the one that gets hit by it. It definitely seems like the move hits me even when there's space between me and him from behind.
 

Levitas

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I'm almost certain the hexagons on dsmash are accurate as far as where they hit.

As such, I'm pretty sure the parts you drew covering lucas are inaccurate. I usually get the reverse hit on the third spark, and each spark is bigger than the last.
 

:mad:

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No, it really doesn't. It might have a hitbox fairly low, by his feet that might affect you more. But my no means is the dsmash hitbox fairly large in the back.

Although some of these do seem fairly inaccurate.
 

Irsic

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I'm almost certain the hexagons on dsmash are accurate as far as where they hit.

As such, I'm pretty sure the parts you drew covering lucas are inaccurate. I usually get the reverse hit on the third spark, and each spark is bigger than the last.
The only wait I could get the reverse first hit of dsmash to hit was if the characters hurtbox was standing inside of me. Even if I moved them as close as possible, they weren't getting hit.

Though I'm sure if I used a fat character Like Donkey Kong or Bowser, I would have no trouble replicating that as their hurtbox extends into Lucas even when standing clean behind me. But the character I used with a more defined hurtbox, in this case, Kirby, would not get hit unless he was standing inside Lucas, and he only had to be a little inside Lucas to get hit by the first hit.

Although some of these do seem fairly inaccurate.
*sigh*

I said this is a work in progress and most are subject to change, none of them being cold hard facts.

Now, do you mind elaborating rather than just simply stating something that is no help whatsoever?
 

FireKirby7

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Irsic, how do you test these hitboxes? I remember there was some hack for Melee that allowed you to see hitboxes, is there something like that in Brawl?

Something like this:
 

Irsic

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Heh, that's a pretty awesome GIF.

Lots and lots of pausing, and slow motion. Repeat over and over for clarity.

I would stand on a platform on Battlefield and repeat a move over and over, while coming into Lucas from every angle possible with Kirby. So I'd be controlling two controllers, and then flying around myself with Kirby, also doing things like landing inside of Lucas, standing as close as possible behind him, coming from underneath, seeing if attacks can be short hopped over.

I would do all of this in normal time, then repeat every step in 1/2 speed, and if necessary, 1/4th speed.

Also, when possibly (since it's difficult with standing animations and Lucas' weird *** hitboxes :\) I would stand as close as possibly to a target and do they attack, to see if it does that whiff animation. There's an animation (easily tested on the Sandbag) where an attack that comes SO CLOSE to hitting but doesn't, theres a very little yellow/red flash that appears. Easily tested with Fox's jab and a sandbag if you don't know what I'm talking about. I had extreme difficulties though trying to get that to appear for Lucas since his attacks are so ****ing wacky.
 

Levitas

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those sparks happen on phantom hits in brawl.

FK7, unfortunately there's pretty much no way those kind of GIFs will ever happen for brawl, as the original debug was removed for the final game.
 

Irsic

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The only problem I have with giving you credit is I've been meaning to do this for months upon months now, and I had been planning to do it in this exact fashion. Just because you did it first doesn't mean you weren't he only one to have this idea.

The only reason I waited this long is because I just bought an SD card.
 

:mad:

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Credit? Is it that big of a deal? I recall MrEh doing the same thing for the Jigglypuffs awhile ago.

Any chance you can get a hitbox on PSI Magnet?
 

:mad:

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It's just that people just want other people to respect them for what they've done. :dizzy:
Credit... for a concept...
That'd be like me saying that I invented the idea for website forums and you should all credit me any time you post. Do it. I'm serious. :mad:
 

Levitas

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Whatever. The point is that it wasn't a big deal to irsic and it was to djbrowny, and this avoided a conflict.

Can we get back on topic here please?
 

:mad:

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Sorry about that, it was my fault...
Irsic, what other attacks do you have planned? I've noticed you've just picked them at random or something... try doing all of one type of move, they're a little unorganized.
 

Irsic

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Yeah, I'm doing them as I feel, really. There isn't an order as to how I'm doing these.

Yes, PsiM will be done, as well as all the range in which Lucas can tether the ledge. Don't worry. D:

I've becomed extremely swamped with homework this week, along with a tournament on friday, so right now I'm pretty busy. I'll be working on these as soon as I can. ;)
 

:mad:

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That's cool. ^^
I'd just really like to know magnet some time this month, I'm trying a magnet gimp in a MM I have against a Link player. This worked on him in the past.
 

FireKirby7

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I think PSI Magnet's hitbox is pretty much just the white circle in the middle of it.
If the opponent is touching any part of the white circle when PSIM is released, they'll get hit. :)
 
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