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The Lucario Playstyle Thread: Clean-up! Clean-up! (editing some of the sections)

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nick_phizz

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Basically I play mind games with everyone, even CPU to where they kill themselves.

And what flaming? Oh well. I don't watch videos, I know everything I do from experience.
 

tedward2000

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I vote Nick run SFW, because he knows everything already by experience.
(10 sarcasms)
-t2

Oh and Phil, If you have wifi, I've been working on Wolf.
I can get better, while you get info.
its win win, minus lag.
 

phi1ny3

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Basically I play mind games with everyone, even CPU to where they kill themselves.

And what flaming? Oh well. I don't watch videos, I know everything I do from experience.
If you read my big scary monologue (which most prolly didn't), I go by three criteria: My own experience, videos (ranging from mid-high level playing, so I'll see what works mindgame wise, and what works spacing/tech wise), and other's input. If you want to add info, it will have to be more specific than "I keep him at bay with large range", because all characters have to deal with range, and can (unless your talking about snake's nasty tilt ranges, lol jk). I don't know what you're intended purpose is from all this "aggressive" talk, but if you want to talk all the randomness you want, the lucario IRC can provide. If you want to discuss and talk more in depth the specifics of the match, I suggest you tell us what he does and what you do to counter the typical ideas. Range, like I said, is not always the ultimatum of who wins. For example, lets say you fsmash, and he shields and goes for a RAR bair, what would you do then? It is quick, has good range, and knocks good damage in, so have to have something better than mere range to answer, because range is only so good as long as it keeps the close up fight away, and if he's right there, that's not going to do you any good. Since fair is an ok option, you could use it, but only if you've spaced it so that you have already started up the animation, otherwise, you'll still eat a bair. If you shield, that too could be a good option, but the wolf can just as easily slide the bair back so that he's in his original position, and can try a different approach. The list goes on and on, but the point is, what are typical situations that have been thrown, and what a lucario of the stratified (offense, balanced, or defensive) criteria would do typically to displace, redirect, or counter the threat. All I'm saying is that it is unrealistic to give entire bias to lucario (as awesome as he is) merely for his strengths only, and the one of the ways someone gets better is to find what best negates the weaknesses.
 

Kappie

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Smash World Forums...

Reverse aerial something, meaning you flick the control stick in the opposite direction you're walking and then immediately jumping. Used much if your best aerial to approach is back air. (Like Ganon who you seem to play as, and Wolf). Used as Lucario to: edgeguard mostly, mixed up approach, turn around AS mind games?


Nick I think you should stop picking fights over here at Lucario boards, your not gonna accomplish much with it.
 

BurtonEarny

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metagaming- a broad term used to define any strategy, action, or method used in game which transecends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environments set by the game. In simple terms: useing out-of-game resources to affect one's in game decisions.

In competitive smash this definition refers to the way that players use charactes movesets. I.E. discussion on how to "use a certain character" would be metagaming in that you learn how to play that character "the best way possible". Also, it refers to stage picks in the same way.

In lay, a good definition of smash metagaming would be "the most common and generally accepted method to play a certain character, the standing of that character in terms of the rest of the smash cast, the best and worst stages for any given character, and the way in which a certain character should adapt their playstyle when facing any other given character."
 

phi1ny3

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Frigate Orpheon, Luigi's Mansion, Spear Pillar (although its not tourney legal), Yoshi's Island, are some of his best. Rainbow Cruise, Norfair (somewhat), Lylat Cruise, and Corneria are some of his bad ones.

Oh, and it has been made known to me that some of you don't know that the wolf data is done. Go read it, I might add more, but it is "finished". I'm now doing Bowser.
 

tedward2000

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"Rainbow Cruise, Norfair (somewhat), Lylat Cruise, and Corneria are some of his bad ones."

A couple of people would argue that RC (rainbow Cruise) is good for cario, so I wont go there.

Norfair is very "congested", lucario needs his space, because well thats how you play lucario, through spacing. Its a tight little map, and the lava (or acid) doesn't help.

Lylat, the wings and those platforms, they protect people from AS. And sometimes, those wings can screw with a recovery.

Corneria, ehh... maybe the fire and all of this shenanigans. Recovery isnt hindered, good luck landing a AS or any kind of smash between those platforms.

Thats just from Phil, and add-on.
-t2
 

nick_phizz

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Norfair is very "congested", lucario needs his space, because well thats how you play lucario, through spacing. Its a tight little map, and the lava (or acid) doesn't help.

Lylat, the wings and those platforms, they protect people from AS. And sometimes, those wings can screw with a recovery.

Corneria, ehh... maybe the fire and all of this shenanigans. Recovery isnt hindered, good luck landing a AS or any kind of smash between those platforms.

Thats just from Phil, and add-on.
-t2
Disagreeing with everything in bold. As is see it, that's all bull. Why do people make up these imaginary problems, then having it lead to others getting it stuck in their heads so they have the same problems?

I've never had a problem with a character on any stage.
 

Col. Stauffenberg

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Disagreeing with everything in bold. As is see it, that's all bull. Why do people make up these imaginary problems, then having it lead to others getting it stuck in their heads so they have the same problems?

I've never had a problem with a character on any stage.
You've probably also never fought a decent player in your life.
 

phi1ny3

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Just to add on, Corneria is horrible because it has an extremely low vertical kill zone, which is bad for lucario's sub par vertical KO resistance, and having the back area which can make early kills is not very safe for Lucario's "aura boost" factor either.

Norfair has lava, limited spacing, and while it is easier for lucario to recover, its also easier for other characters (like heavys who need to be gimped).

Lylat screws with everyone in terms of recovery, but lucario (and space animals) are some of the ones who have a tricky time with the stage (when it tilts, it's been found that the ledge/side being tilted turns less into a regular stage and more into "wall" physics, hence why the Reversed Reverse DT glitch was possible.)

Rainbow Cruise has easy kill zones (once again bad for aura boost), and with the platform heavy stage that it is, it makes scary aerial characters (like MK) kill us easily, and should only really be used against weaker aerial games (like Diddy's).

Nick, don't put on "airs". We need to recognize that player skill is not again the only factor needed to determine. If you are so incensed to show "how great and powerful both you and your opponents are", may I suggest you at least have videos at the ready to prove it? I really don't want this thread to get locked, and with what seems to be going on, Unless you contribute to meta-game discussion instead of generalized "flaming/angsty" posting, I will have no choice but to report (which I have not ever wanted to do, but I will). SWF is here for people who can handle it, and it seems that you insist on telling us that you can't. Don't want to sound mean and somber, but like I said, if you can't handle discussing actually useful things (seriously, who's side are you on, flaming half the lucarios here who actually do know that lucario has weaknesses?), I'm going to have to remove what could close my thread down.
 

nick_phizz

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You've probably also never fought a decent player in your life.
Sorry but the logic train left about 20 minutes ago.

...may I suggest you at least have videos at the ready to prove it?
Cool. I got a video on youtube, but the way I fought in it wasn't seriously. Me and a friend of mine were messing around with our 'Items in Your Favor' theory and how the game always takes one person's side at a time.
I Ganon, and there was a bad lag... you'll see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXR3hX05ytQ

And me stating I've never had a problem with stages is flaming how?
 

Browny

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So you want us to judge your lucario...

... by posting a video with you playing as ganondorf, vs a sheik, in laggy wifi, with items on, when you both arent playing seriously, on a banned tournament stage?

WTF

asdadff
 

Alus

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Wow. Laggy play. It won't kill you.
heh... good luck mastering DI and power shielding or even landing a well placed tilt in a input delayed lag session.

but you don't play in tournaments right? so this means that you don't play competitively,you play for fun.

Then don't let things like tiers or counter picks or ATs bother you...but dont speak your mind in here either...seriously
 

nick_phizz

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Yea you seem like the kind of person I can get to know...
Don't worry about me, I've already mastered this game. I'm trying to contribute to the topic, but it seems there are 'rules' and people who keep bringing up all the irrelevant sht I say.
 

tedward2000

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Blawl (heh brawl and lol). Best typo ever.

Why even contribute to a topic, when you already have mastered a game?

"...bringing up all the irrelevant sht I say."

We are doing this because, for one, this tread isn't meant to be a "Lets help Nick Hotline". There are other threads to ask these questions, Hell you could make a "Lets help Nick Hotline".

Two, if you've mastered this game, then why are you asking questions?

Wait, I just got it. You ask us these questions, just for us to answer them (which is a set up) then you to flatout deny what we say with off topic bias flame.

Yes, I believe that is it. Its a conspiracy. We the lucario board are a bunch of people who are just making stuff up, just to derail the rest of the other boards. And Nick, Nick is the Knight in Shining armor to guide people in the right direction from all of our lies and rat us out for being wrong.

We've been found out guys. Run.

I smell a troll, oh and $5 says I'ma get some flame back from this.

Happy New Year Guys!
-t2
 

phi1ny3

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Wolf has been finished a long time ago, we're discussing Bowser. You play for fun, eh? That explains a lot. This thread is to help people in a tourney setting. Actually, a good site for "fun" brawl would be here.
 

nick_phizz

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Well since I'm most likely not wanted to contribute to it just because I play for fun, I won't. Yay for you.

But what's the difference? You try to win either way.
 

BurtonEarny

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Anyway, with the bowser match...
Cant say I've had problems with any bowser I have faced(only one person I know plays anything comparable to good with him), but I can see problems being there potentially.

Bowser- great range in terms of close range moves (grab, ftilt, dtilt, jab)
Bowser mainly relies on ftilt and jab to space simply because of their good speed and range. Ftilt is an all purpose move in that it is an aproach, a spacing move, a kill move, etc. So, expect it to be one of the most used moves he will be throwing at you. In terms of approaching he has ftilt, dtilt, fair, bair, sh side b and nuetral b as his best options... all of which minus the side b are telographed(it is fast and will catch you off guard unless you watch for it). Oos he has a good grab release game, and his fast upb makes for a good punishing move. Make sure to avoid getting caught in the nuetral b, however you can di out. fsmash is going to outrange everything he has. Really you control how the pace of the match goes, because he cannot force an approach. He has REACH so care must be taken to not underestimate it. Other than that, just wear him down by punishing the approaches that you force. Watch for low percentage kills, he is very strong and may kill you sooner than your used to if he gets to mount offense. However, he shouldn't really ever get to mount that offense as he is too pressured from offensive lucario, and outranged by defensive lucario(kinda).

offensive- watch out for shield grabs as he has grab release shenanigans.his fair is pretty quick, and upb is so fast its silly.

defensive- can only really out range his ftilt with fsmash and aura sphere.
 

Alus

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Bowser- great range in terms of close range moves (grab, ftilt, dtilt, jab)

Bowser mainly relies on ftilt and jab to space simply because of their good speed and range. Ftilt is an all purpose move in that it is an approach, a spacing move, a kill move, etc. So, expect it to be one of the most used moves he will be throwing at you.

In terms of approaching he has ftilt, dtilt, fair, bair, sh side b and neutral b as his best options... all of which minus the side b are telegraphed(it is fast and will catch you off guard unless you watch for it).

Oos he has a good grab release game, and his fast upb makes for a good punishing move. Make sure to avoid getting caught in the neutral b, however you can di out. fsmash is going to out range everything he has. Really you control how the pace of the match goes, because he cannot force an approach.

He has REACH so care must be taken to not underestimate it. Other than that, just wear him down by punishing the approaches that you force. Watch for low percentage kills, he is very strong and may kill you sooner than your used to if he gets to mount offense.

However, he shouldn't really ever get to mount that offense as he is too pressured from offensive lucario, and out ranged by defensive lucario(kinda).
^
just wanted to give that some spaces (kind of hard to read squished text)
so uh.... REpost! [fixed some of the spelling too! =)]
 

tedward2000

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Go Kriby Go!
(cause everyone is talking about kirby, and a lot of ppls in the IRC are following my example of maining him)

-t2
 

phi1ny3

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OK, bowser is done for now (though I'll need Kevvviiinnn to check a bit to see if it's relevant). Enjoy!

Edit: Sounds like Kirby is my next matchup discussion, eh?
 

phi1ny3

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Question: Where are the discussions taking place? On IRC or something?
If you mean the official discussions, it's taking place in the stickied matchup thread. The one for the playstyle is here, as long as the information provided is valid and reasonable (and not blindly vague) then it can be posted in here and I will add it onto the original post. Make sure it's credible and relevant though.
 
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