The King of Klones (the Ganon character design thread)

[Enderwoman]

It'd be alot lamer for sure

Unless Ganondorf had a gun instead of a sword

 

[jmanup85]

Please for the love of everything good in this world... please get banned along with Quillion already. You 2 always make these same posts and it's so annoying already. So please, get banned. Get a life, get a girlfriend/boyfriend/friend. Buy a Zelda game so you can have Ganon portrayed "as intended". Get a social life, go to school, get a job, buy a house. Just don't make any more of these ridiculous topics anymore since you obviously have quite a few to choose from to keep bumping them.

 

[Enderwoman]

Please for the love of everything good in this world... please get banned along with Quillion already. You 2 always make these same posts and it's so annoying already. So please, get banned. Get a life, get a girlfriend/boyfriend/friend. Buy a Zelda game so you can have Ganon portrayed "as intended". Get a social life, go to school, get a job, buy a house. Just don't make any more of these ridiculous topics anymore since you obviously have quite a few to choose from to keep bumping them.

Harsh, much?

Like he said, this thread is simply to discuss the possibilities. This is much better than the typical whinefest we usually get and I for one welcome this thread. As long as it doesn't become rampant with Quillion.

 

[jmanup85]

Harsh, much?

Like he said, this thread is simply to discuss the possibilities. This is much better than the typical whinefest we usually get and I for one welcome this thread. As long as it doesn't become rampant with Quillion.

Or he could have simply bumped his other thread discussing Ganon and his moveset and shifted the discussion to that instead. Ican guarantee you that there won't be a single bit of discussion from this guy about sm4sh Ganondorf and how to become a better player with him. It's just going to be more of "if you could have Ganon do x then how would his moveset change?" The guy could have bumped Quillion's post for all I care since he knows full well that they discuss that since he actively participates in those discussions.

 

[Vermanubis]

Come on now, guys. Let's keep it together a bit. Though, I think the time's come to make a central thread for "Ganon counterfactuals," i.e. "What if Ganon..."

 

[Jotari]

If you feel the premise of this thread is already covered ground then I'm willing to see it closed, but I personally created this thread because I think there was something vital that was actually lost in the arguments and has not been actually discussed in a non hostile fashion. I'm interested in theorizing and creating that's why I made this thread even though it leans more towards an aspect of the character I personally don't want to see. One of the best things about Smash in my eyes, aside from playing it, is thinking and considering what they can and can't do with it, particularly the moveset. So I am interested in hearing people's ideas for moveset regardless of how crazy or impossible they might be.

 

[PhantomShab]

Much better than the moveset he has now.

 

[Vermanubis]

Due to an admittedly silly volume of threads discussing essentially the same thing ("What if Ganon used nunchuks", "what if Ganon was a cat," etc.) I merged all such threads.

Wonder what Ganon would be like if he had his sword? Welcome.
Wonder what Ganon's moveset would be like if he were Shrek? Welcome.
Malcontent with Ganon's moveset? Want to kvetch about it? Welcome.
Wish Ganon had a cuter haircut? Welcome.

Welcome, Kings of Kontention.

 

[Z1GMA]

Verm is funny.

 

[Enderwoman]

this thread merge was a wonderful idea

god bless you verm

what if ganondorf was kawaii?

 

[Jotari]

Suggesting this now seems apropriate.
https://youtu.be/URn24CgFfLc?t=1m20s

 

[Blobface]

Ganondorf as a sausage would be a delicious, nutritious, and vicious part of a darkly unbalanced (Yin Yang y'know?) breakfast.

Anyway, if Dark Dive did 20% damage, had straight vertical knockback, and killed at about the same %'s as D-tilt, would it see more use over Dark Fists in customs?

 

[Vermanubis]

Verm is funny.

All I've ever wanted to hear. Thank you, Zig.

this thread merge was a wonderful idea

god bless you verm

what if ganondorf was kawaii?

I gotchu guys, I gotchu.

Ganondorf as a sausage would be a delicious, nutritious, and vicious part of a darkly unbalanced (Yin Yang y'know?) breakfast.

Anyway, if Dark Dive did 20% damage, had straight vertical knockback, and killed at about the same %'s as D-tilt, would it see more use over Dark Fists in customs?

Your candid, honest wit never ceases to please me, Blob, lol.

Also, I'd totally use DD in that case. One of the primary reasons I've fallen out of love with DF as an OoS option is because the people I play have learned to DI it so well that does me more harm than good.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ganondorf as a sausage would be a delicious, nutritious, and vicious part of a darkly unbalanced (Yin Yang y'know?) breakfast.

Anyway, if Dark Dive did 20% damage, had straight vertical knockback, and killed at about the same %'s as D-tilt, would it see more use over Dark Fists in customs?

Too bad Dark Dive doesn't send people straight DOWN like in BBrawl, lol.

But yeah that version of Dark Dive would be legit for not just out of shield, but mixing up landings as well as platform pressure.

 

[PhantomShab]

So...a serious thread got turned into a joke topic all because somebody made a thread about giving Ganondorf a weapon? Was that really necessary? Couldn't have just made the "what if" thread separate and just direct future similar threads to it? Any serious discussions about fixing Ganondorf's moveset will just get buried by silly joke questions or outright ignored in favor of responding to only the silly joke questions.

Seems to just be subtly mocking those of us who want Ganondorf to be Ganondorf in Smash. Like, are we just not allowed to feel this way anymore or something?

 

[FriendlySpaceDragon@32]

I

So...a serious thread got turned into a joke topic all because somebody made a thread about giving Ganondorf a weapon? Was that really necessary? Couldn't have just made the "what if" thread separate and just direct future similar threads to it? Any serious discussions about fixing Ganondorf's moveset will just get buried by silly joke questions or outright ignored in favor of responding to only the silly joke questions.

Seems to just be subtly mocking those of us who want Ganondorf to be Ganondorf in Smash. Like, are we just not allowed to feel this way anymore or something?

I strongly recommend that bring the jokes different discussion. As I said earlier, the thread is originally designed to debate/argue a character's current moveset. Having a joke is fine, but please does not make the jokes go out of control. At this rate, it might become the Ridley debate in 4chan, IGN, or gamefaq, which are things most of people do not like. Have a separate thread would be fine if it is necessary.

 

[Enderwoman]

So...a serious thread got turned into a joke topic all because somebody made a thread about giving Ganondorf a weapon? Was that really necessary? Couldn't have just made the "what if" thread separate and just direct future similar threads to it? Any serious discussions about fixing Ganondorf's moveset will just get buried by silly joke questions or outright ignored in favor of responding to only the silly joke questions.

Seems to just be subtly mocking those of us who want Ganondorf to be Ganondorf in Smash. Like, are we just not allowed to feel this way anymore or something?

At this point I feel like discussing this IS a joke. The same routine has been repeated in this board numerous times and I for one, am sick of it. I bet a whole lot of other Ganondorf players are sick of people coming to this subforum just to complain as well.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Ganondorf as a sausage would be a delicious, nutritious, and vicious part of a darkly unbalanced (Yin Yang y'know?) breakfast.

Anyway, if Dark Dive did 20% damage, had straight vertical knockback, and killed at about the same %'s as D-tilt, would it see more use over Dark Fists in customs?

Damn...is dark fists that Beast?

 

[Wintropy]

Warlock Blade is default neutral-b

Dark Fists is default up-b

Wizkick, I dunno, always goes straight down

Any move with a kick has its animation changed to a punch

Run is slightly less wonky

Down-taunt remains the same

Are people satisfied now?

 

[Jotari]

Any move with a kick has its animation changed to a punch

What's your reasoning for this change?

 

[Vermanubis]

So...a serious thread got turned into a joke topic all because somebody made a thread about giving Ganondorf a weapon? Was that really necessary? Couldn't have just made the "what if" thread separate and just direct future similar threads to it? Any serious discussions about fixing Ganondorf's moveset will just get buried by silly joke questions or outright ignored in favor of responding to only the silly joke questions.

Seems to just be subtly mocking those of us who want Ganondorf to be Ganondorf in Smash. Like, are we just not allowed to feel this way anymore or something?

I'll admit I had a little fun, but it wasn't my intent to mock any specific wish or person, rather, to make light of the situation.

Sorry if it came off as mockery. Certainly wasn't the intent, evidenced by the fact that where most people would generally feel the need to mock somone, I just murder them. For you, the day Ganondorf merged your threads was the most important day of your life. But for Ganon it was...

...Tuesday.

 

[PhantomShab]

At this point I feel like discussing this IS a joke. The same routine has been repeated in this board numerous times and I for one, am sick of it. I bet a whole lot of other Ganondorf players are sick of people coming to this subforum just to complain as well.

You could always ignore threads like that. You have plenty of threads here to talk about how much you love using purple Falcon Punch and purple Falcon Kick. I and others only had this one thread to discuss getting Ganondorf a fitting moveset, and now it's gone. And I mean, come on, a character with all kinds of moves to draw from in his home canon is nothing more than a slow and heavy Captain Falcon in Smash Bros. You honestly think that people will ever stop thinking that's dumb and accept it?

to make light of the situation

That sounds exactly like mockery tbh. But oh well, I don't really have much reason to visit the Ganondorf boards now that this topic has been turned into a joke, and knowing that mine and a few others' opinions are something to be laughed at. I could always find somewhere else where wanting Ganondorf to not be Captain Falcon's grandpa is welcomed, I guess.

 

[Vermanubis]

You could always ignore threads like that. You have plenty of threads here to talk about how much you love using purple Falcon Punch and purple Falcon Kick. I and others only had this one thread to discuss getting Ganondorf a fitting moveset, and now it's gone. And I mean, come on, a character with all kinds of moves to draw from in his home canon is nothing more than a slow and heavy Captain Falcon in Smash Bros. You honestly think that people will ever stop thinking that's dumb and accept it?


That sounds exactly like mockery tbh. But oh well, I don't really have much reason to visit the Ganondorf boards now that this topic has been turned into a joke, and knowing that mine and a few others' opinions are something to be laughed at. I could always find somewhere else where wanting Ganondorf to not be Captain Falcon's grandpa is welcomed, I guess.

Can't say I agree. It's one thing to laugh at someone's opinions. It's another to laugh at the chaos that ensues as multitudes of people express their opinions in a somewhat disorganized way. No one's laughing at your opinions -- as I said, I think the humor's in the dysfunction.

Though again, I do apologize if it seemed I was mocking anybody in particular -- because I wasn't. I actually enjoyed a lot of the suggestions you all made. If it makes you feel a bit better, I'd be happy to change the thread title.

 

[Blobface]

Damn...is dark fists that Beast?

Yeah, pretty much. The main reasons Dark Fists is such a "strict upgrade" is because Dark Dive is just that bad*. It's defining trait is that it moves you upward. Meanwhile, Dark Fists acts as a CQC option for a character that doesn't have any, and beats a lot of things that Ganondorf sometimes just doesn't have an answer to (Sheik Fair). The main reason Dark Fists is so good is because it replaces a move with next to no use except recovery.

@ Vermanubis do people DI out of Dark Fists often? I've rarely had that happen onstage since I find I can usually follow their DI by moving left and right as I move up. Even if they try to DI away to slip below it, rage will eventually cause the first hit to knock them too high for that to happen. Is there something I'm missing? If so, I should definitely add it to my guide.

*still better than Brawl thankfully

 

[Dark Phazon]

Yeah, pretty much. The main reasons Dark Fists is such a "strict upgrade" is because Dark Dive is just that bad*. It's defining trait is that it moves you upward. Meanwhile, Dark Fists acts as a CQC option for a character that doesn't have any, and beats a lot of things that Ganondorf sometimes just doesn't have an answer to (Sheik Fair). The main reason Dark Fists is so good is because it replaces a move with next to no use except recovery.

@ Vermanubis do people DI out of Dark Fists often? I've rarely had that happen onstage since I find I can usually follow their DI by moving left and right as I move up. Even if they try to DI away to slip below it, rage will eventually cause the first hit to knock them too high for that to happen. Is there something I'm missing? If so, I should definitely add it to my guide.

*still better than Brawl thankfully

I agree Dark Dive in Melee was beast.

Say something i was wondering?
How much % did wizkick do in melee?
Im pretty sure it had more KO more too and took more ?

Come to think of it?
Was Ganondorf stronger in melee?
I know Melee Ganon was the best but im talking about K.O potential and % damage
Power?
Amd what about Brawl? Didnt play that game much.

 

[PhantomShab]

Can't say I agree. It's one thing to laugh at someone's opinions. It's another to laugh at the chaos that ensues as multitudes of people express their opinions in a somewhat disorganized way. No one's laughing at your opinions -- as I said, I think the humor's in the dysfunction.

Though again, I do apologize if it seemed I was mocking anybody in particular -- because I wasn't. I actually enjoyed a lot of the suggestions you all made. If it makes you feel a bit better, I'd be happy to change the thread title.

I'd appreciate it if you changed this thread's title back to what it used to be and make a new thread entirely for the silly discussions. I'm sure TheTrueCorrectGuy would also object to his thread devolving into this.

 

[jmanup85]

You could always ignore threads like that. You have plenty of threads here to talk about how much you love using purple Falcon Punch and purple Falcon Kick. I and others only had this one thread to discuss getting Ganondorf a fitting moveset, and now it's gone. And I mean, come on, a character with all kinds of moves to draw from in his home canon is nothing more than a slow and heavy Captain Falcon in Smash Bros. You honestly think that people will ever stop thinking that's dumb and accept it?

There were like 5 different threads on pretty much the same subject about how his moveset should be different or what if this and what if that. If these were, let's say the Link boards, all the threads would be locked. Why not keep bumping the "one" thread and keep it at that? No, the others were made when all they had to do was change the topic of discussion in the "one" thread. It's now officially one thread and that's that.

 

[Vermanubis]

I'd appreciate it if you changed this thread's title back to what it used to be and make a new thread entirely for the silly discussions. I'm sure TheTrueCorrectGuy would also object to his thread devolving into this.

I don't see a need to make a separate thread, but I certainly see no harm in a bit more dignified name.

 

[Blobface]

Say something i was wondering?
How much % did wizkick do in melee?
Im pretty sure it had more KO more too and took more ?

Grounded Wizkick was a lot more powerful in Melee, killing from center stage around 100% or so IIRC. Aerial Wizkick was a lot weaker though.

Was Ganondorf stronger in melee?
I know Melee Ganon was the best but im talking about K.O potential and % damage
Power?
Amd what about Brawl? Didnt play that game much.

Smash 4 Ganon is a bit stronger than both if you don't count D-air. Just a small % here and there. But if you compare relative to the cast, Smash 4 Ganon is the strongest by a considerable margin.

Also, I'm really not sure Melee Ganon is the best. Even if Smash 4 Ganon ends up in low tier, Smash 4 has way less gap between characters over all, and thus he will likely end up more tourney viable than Melee Ganon anyway.

Even then, 90% of Melee Ganon being good came from chaingrabbing and having an... interesting aerial kit that benefited from L-canceling a lot.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/2FmxA.gif
Seriously what is this hitbox

 

[PhantomShab]

I don't see a need to make a separate thread

Then I guess that's it for me, since (as I said) Falcondorf supporters are now using this thread to discuss things it was never intended for, probably just to rub salt in the wound of people like me, Quillion, and the OP of this thread. As if Sakurai hasn't done that enough himself.

Have fun with the Ganondorf social thread 2.0, I guess.

 

[Vermanubis]

Then I guess that's it for me, since (as I said) Falcondorf supporters are now using this thread to discuss things it was never intended for, probably just to rub salt in the wound of people like me, Quillion, and the OP of this thread. As if Sakurai hasn't done that enough himself.

Have fun with the Ganondorf social thread 2.0, I guess.

Sorry you feel that way, Shab. Going by your reasoning though, and it is indeed an understandable one, were we to divide this thread in two for a discussion on something principally similar -- the fidelity of Ganon to his canonical self -- we'd then be forced to say that any number of subthreads thereof would be justified.

I intend on eventually making a nice thread for such things and shutting this one down so that you and your fellows don't feel too out of place and know that your presence is most welcome here. But if this won't suffice for now, then I'm afraid I don't know what to say.

On a final note, though, undermining others thoughts (Falcondorf supporters) is exactly what you called me out for not too long ago. I think if someone wants to discuss Falcondorf, they have every right to. And if they didn't before, they do now under my diabolical edict.

 

[Z1GMA]

Even if some of Ganon's animations look the same as C.Falcon's, they function a lot different.

Uair/Dair/Nair/DA, pretty much looks the same, but they're completely different moves.

Bair/Pummel/Dthrow/Fthrow/Uthrow/Bthrow, are pretty much the only moves that truly are clone-versions.

Actually, there are other characters in this game that fight more like C.Falcon than Ganon does.

I do agree, however, that many of Ganon's attacks (the way they look) doesn't represent him too well - doing Backflip Kicks ala Marshall Law and such.
But this is the character and moveset we've grown to love.

If they gave his moveset to Black Shadow, I'd play both Black Shadow and the new Ganon.

 

[Quillion]

♪I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!♪

I feel so honored to be considered a paragon of hatred of Falcondorf. Thanks guys!

 

[Tarry]

♪I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!♪

I feel so honored to be considered a paragon of hatred of Falcondorf. Thanks guys!

Love you too!

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Both characters made/re-made by modders for PM with limited resources (unlike the actual game makers) and besides for testers are made almost solely by themselves. And they did a heck of a job! Way better than Sakurai and his team ever did or even try to do. And although both these modders are extremely talented, Sakurai & the other developers should be ashamed that fans did a better job than they ever did...

Ganondorf:
v3.1 -

- sword & magic + duel wielding moveset
v4.1 -

- magic based moveset with 1 sword move (sword stance is yet to be added)

Ridley:
v0.75 (v1.0 has no video yet)

Putting this here again for relevancy ... a 1,000,000 times then whatever abomination Sakurai did for Ganondorf.

Whichever version you like be it Sword or Magic there is no denying the absolute superiority of these move sets^ compared to what Sakurai designed...

- Is Ganon unique? Check
- Does he retain major elements from his current play style? Check
- Is he different from Ike (idk why this is even a concern)? Check
- Is a F***ing Bad A**? Double Check!!

 

[Xinc]

Putting this here again for relevancy ... a 1,000,000 times then whatever abomination Sakurai did for Ganondorf.

Whichever version you like be it Sword or Magic there is no denying the absolute superiority of these move sets^ compared to what Sakurai designed...

- Is Ganon unique? Check
- Does he retain major elements from his current play style? Check
- Is he different from Ike (idk why this is even a concern)? Check
- Is a F***ing Bad A**? Double Check!!

I'm saying that I like it, but there are several Falcondorf things I would prefer, namely up air and maybe neutral air. Sure, Ganon doesn't flip kick, but we all have to admit the move is more viable in more ways than one. I can't imagine Ganon being that good unless his speed is buffed to PM and he receives viable movement options. Replacing up air with the uppercut from the Up-B doesn't seem to work not just aesthetically, but also competitively. I'm not really sure the purpose of neutral air, either, but if it works, I'll download this and give it a shot when I get home. It's just that the cape in the air works as neutral B too.

 

[Jotari]

I agree that it's a nice and interesting blend but there are also things I like from his vanilla moveset that I think could do with staying. Particularly his Up Tilt, it's far from the most useful move in the game but it's also far from useless. It requires very strict timing but it is effective at edge guarding and feels oh so satisfying to pull off. All it needs is a way to cancel it mid attack. It might not be something he does in the games but it's still a unique and interesting moves. I'd have to play it myself to see what all the subtle power differences are but from the looks of it his side smash doesn't have as much power on contact as it does now which would be a shame though the videos did do more to show off the neat projectile feature. I also think the Down Smash looks a bit clunky, though I would like to see his current Side Smash change in some way, maybe an energy charge pound like he does in the Oracle games. His up and side specials just seem a little strange to me. Maybe just a result of the fact that despite it's clear talent, it's still amateur, or maybe just a sense of disconnect from me. I suppose how they function in actual combat is the most important thing. Love the neutral special though. I want to keep Warlock Blade or Punch around but I definitely wouldn't object to that being an alt or even the primary special. I'm do want to retain Falcondorf because I am fond of his moveset but that doesn't mean I'm against giving him a sword stance or something to the effect that you can change to during gameplay. It seems that expanding Ganondorf's move pool to give us two characters in one is the only thing that'll make everyone happy.

 

[Xinc]

Tbh I prefer keeping his Falcondorf but being able to switch with his taunt, but make the taunt last a bit longer and activate only after it's done.

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

Why not all three? He'll be undeniably boss with all three characteristics in tandem with each other. I'll come up with a moveset and see if anyone likes it.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Honestly, why not just remove him?