The King of Klones (the Ganon character design thread)

[1FC0]

3 of Zelda's specials are Links moves.

 

[Jotari]

Link, Zelda, Sheik and TL are all fine. How is Zelda not represented well? Her specials are magic attacks from Zelda named after the goddesses and summons a recurring enemy from the franchise, she uses magic in all of her attacks (except D tilt) and her Final Smash is her signature Light Arrows. What's the problem with it?

Her attacks are named after attacks from Ocarina of Time, in which they act quite differently and are used by Link. Her magical attacks are entirely original, based on the fact that she can do magic but the only magic we have seen her use is a beam to restrain Ganon, the ability to open locked doors, disguise herself, seal beings away (when assisted) create mines and shoot a reflectable projectile, the last two of which possibly belonging to Ganon, none of which are actually used in her moveset (she also utilizes a sword in Twilight Princess which was reaffirmed in Hyrule Warriors). Point for point Ganondorf probably represents more of his series moves that Zelda does who is limited to one special and a final smash.

 

[1FC0]

Her attacks are named after attacks from Ocarina of Time, in which they act quite differently and are used by Link. Her magical attacks are entirely original, based on the fact that she can do magic but the only magic we have seen her use is a beam to restrain Ganon, the ability to open locked doors, disguise herself, seal beings away (when assisted) create mines and shoot a reflectable projectile, the last two of which possibly belonging to Ganon, none of which are actually used in her moveset (she also utilizes a sword in Twilight Princess which was reaffirmed in Hyrule Warriors). Point for point Ganondorf probably represents more of his series moves that Zelda does who is limited to one special and a final smash.

The attacks are the same moves and the are quite similiar. They just have been adjusted to Smash, this has happened to a lot of characters moves. I could name many examples if you want me to. That does not change the fact that the mves are based on Links moves and that Zelda never gets them unless it is in a newer LoZ that I did not play.

I do not blame them though I must admit that I do not think that Zelda had many canon mves to draw from.

 

[Jotari]

The attacks are the same moves and the are quite similiar. They just have been adjusted to Smash, this has happened to a lot of characters moves. I could name many examples if you want me to. That does not change the fact that the mves are based on Links moves and that Zelda never gets them unless it is in a newer LoZ that I did not play.

I do not blame them though I must admit that I do not think that Zelda had many canon mves to draw from.

Neither did Ganondorf at the time which is why we got both of them the way they are in Melee. Yet despite both their abilities being expanded further in subsequent games, people tend to rant about Ganondorf not having a sword and ignoring Zelda's sword play. I don't think she should get a sword or changed because I am happy with her current moveset, I just find it strange no one seems to complain when the case is very similar. I do hope they use some of the abilities I mentioned as alt specials in the next game though, particularly the magic mines and stun beam.

 

[Enderwoman]

3 of Zelda's specials are Links moves.

If Link's not using them then may as well give them to the character that is proficient in magic.

Her attacks are named after attacks from Ocarina of Time, in which they act quite differently and are used by Link. Her magical attacks are entirely original, based on the fact that she can do magic but the only magic we have seen her use is a beam to restrain Ganon, the ability to open locked doors, disguise herself, seal beings away (when assisted) create mines and shoot a reflectable projectile, the last two of which possibly belonging to Ganon, none of which are actually used in her moveset (she also utilizes a sword in Twilight Princess which was reaffirmed in Hyrule Warriors). Point for point Ganondorf probably represents more of his series moves that Zelda does who is limited to one special and a final smash.

If they're going to make those moves functional attacks then they pretty much HAVE to take liberties with them. Besides, they DO function like how they did in Ocarina of Time. Farore's Wind teleports you, Nayru's Love protects you from attacks and while Din's Fire doesn't match up exactly its still a fiery explosion.

Do you guys just think that everything a certain character does needs to be something they did in their games? Welp, Link has a few kicks in his moveset, he's not well represented. Better scrap the whole thing.You may as well complain about all the other liberties Smash took with movesets as well, which is like, a ton.

 

[Jotari]

If Link's not using them then may as well give them to the character that is proficient in magic.



If they're going to make those moves functional attacks then they pretty much HAVE to take liberties with them. Besides, they DO function like how they did in Ocarina of Time. Farore's Wind teleports you, Nayru's Love protects you from attacks and while Din's Fire doesn't match up exactly its still a fiery explosion.

Do you guys just think that everything a certain character does needs to be something they did in their games? Welp, Link has a few kicks in his moveset, he's not well represented. Better scrap the whole thing.You may as well complain about all the other liberties Smash took with movesets as well, which is like, a ton.

Oh I'm not complaining about this fact. I think they took what they had and changed it to make the most appropriate moveset at the time instead of letting the history interfere with the game (because if they really wanted to use Zelda's displayed abilities, they could have used the CD-i games). It's the same deal with Ganon. They're take concepts from his original abilities, electric attacks, flight, fire, darkness, and modified them into a moveset that was appropriate for the game.

 

[PhantomShab]

Neither did Ganondorf at the time which is why we got both of them the way they are in Melee.

No, you're wrong.

The reason Ganondorf is a clone in Melee was because Sakurai added him in at the very last minute to further pad out the roster. There was already plenty to draw from with Ganondorf in terms of a moveset. A shame that potential will never be realized with Sakurai calling the shots though.

 

[MagiusNecros]

A giant dragon beast acts like a giant dragon beast. How horrible.

Incorrect. This Dragon Beast is intelligent and doesn't fight for anyone other then itself plus it is super aggressive. And generally uses it's tail a lot which it doesn't here.

And Ganondorf will compete in the next F-zero Grand Prix.

 

[Jotari]

No, you're wrong.

The reason Ganondorf is a clone in Melee was because Sakurai added him in at the very last minute to further pad out the roster. There was already plenty to draw from with Ganondorf in terms of a moveset. A shame that potential will never be realized with Sakurai calling the shots though.

There is no doubt in my mind that Ganondorf got in because they could clone him, it says as much on the official Melee website, But I don't think that detracts from my point. They still took what they had an modified it. Let's look at what Ganondorf could do in Ocarina of Time, his only appearance outside the very brief space world demo. He could fly, shoot lightning balls and punch the ground. In Melee Ganondorf can have a burst of flight (dark dive) and has electric attacks (the aforementioned dark dive, his jab and his down air). If we extend his move pool to what we've seen him do as Ganon then he can use fire, pound and has a trident. His darkness ability looks pretty flame like so I reckon it was meant to be reminiscent of his flames in ALTTP and his waves of darkness in Ocarina of Time (Captain Falcon used fire first but hat doesn't stop them drawing inspiration) and is probably also he inspiration for his explosive up tilt. The things he is missing from what we've seen him do is a free float, which they already had with another character, Peach, the trident, which not only would have been more complicate to code and animate, is something he only used in his beast form and a projectile/pound which, fair enough, would have been nice, hope we get them as an alt custom in the next game.

Now you might think I'm grasping at straws with all this but I'm not. Proof that they thought about Ganondorf's history in his moveset comes in the form of his forward aerial. This attack is completely distinct from Captain Falcon's Knee. It originates from a piece of official artwork depicting his earthquake punch and the landing animation comes from the Ocarina of Time manga. Yes, Ganondorf got in because he is a clone, but when they went to make him they still considered how he should be made. This extended further when they later gave him a new forward tilt/down tilt, side special, his entrance, changed his Warlock Punch and gave him Warlock Blade. Hopefully this trend will continue into the next game in the form of his Alternate Specials which will be able to reference his abilities without changing his core moveset.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Phantom Ganon uses a Trident. Which surprises me why we haven't received a Phantom Ganon alt to begin with.

 

[Piedro]

Phantom Ganon uses a Trident. Which surprises me why we haven't received a Phantom Ganon alt to begin with.

Isn't that the pale skinned one?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Isn't that the pale skinned one?

The one from OoT.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...f_Time).png/revision/latest?cb=20100411225535

 

[Enderwoman]

Incorrect. This Dragon Beast is intelligent and doesn't fight for anyone other then itself plus it is super aggressive. And generally uses it's tail a lot which it doesn't here.

lol, have you ever even played on the Pyrosphere?

Besides, if you're complaining about Ridley's characterization of all things then you probably don't have alot to complain about.

 

[MagiusNecros]

lol, have you ever even played on the Pyrosphere?

Besides, if you're complaining about Ridley's characterization of all things then you probably don't have alot to complain about.

Many times. Ridley barely uses his tail. And not in the ways he does in the games. In both Brawl and Smash U you can associate Ridley with similar attack patterns to that of Dyna Blade from the Kirby Series.

 

[Enderwoman]

Many times. Ridley barely uses his tail. And not in the ways he does in the games. In both Brawl and Smash U you can associate Ridley with similar attack patterns to that of Dyna Blade from the Kirby Series.

I don't see how him not doing everything he does in the games as screwing up his characterization...he's big, aggressive, he uses his size to attack, he fires fireballs. If its wrong that he does things slightly differently that Metroid Ridley then by that logic most, if not all character's characterizations in Smash Bros are wrong.

Also, I think you're looking too deep into his gimmick, lol

 

[Piedro]

Many times. Ridley barely uses his tail. And not in the ways he does in the games. In both Brawl and Smash U you can associate Ridley with similar attack patterns to that of Dyna Blade from the Kirby Series.

Oh come on guys. He's just a stage hazard. Just like Metal Face.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I don't see how him not doing everything he does in the games as screwing up his characterization...he's big, aggressive, he uses his size to attack, he fires fireballs. If its wrong that he does things slightly differently that Metroid Ridley then by that logic most, if not all character's characterizations in Smash Bros are wrong.

Also, I think you're looking too deep into his gimmick, lol

He also helps players if you slap him like a *****. Because that is something Ridley would do. And is an accurate portrayal.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

There isn't much care on the roster for Metroid anyway.

As it is especially niche in Japan.

 

[1FC0]

If Link's not using them then may as well give them to the character that is proficient in magic.

According to that logic they might as well give Jigglypuff Electroball since Pikachu is not using it and Jigglypuff is proficient at being a ball.

 

[Enderwoman]

According to that logic they might as well give Jigglypuff Electroball since Pikachu is not using it and Jigglypuff is proficient at being a ball.

Electroball wouldn't fit Jigglypuff at all though, she can't even learn it in her own games. The three goddess spells fit Zelda because she is a magic user and they represent something important from her franchise. It'd be pretty weird to have Jigglypuff shoot electricity, lol. Also, doesn't Zelda carry the power of the goddesses in her in her own games? It makes a ton of sense. Its more about whether or not its appropriate for the character and not that they used it in their own games.

also isn't electroball a projectile attack so why would jigglypuff do that

 

[MagiusNecros]

Electroball wouldn't fit Jigglypuff at all though, she can't even learn it in her own games. The three goddess spells fit Zelda because she is a magic user and they represent something important from her franchise. It'd be pretty weird to have Jigglypuff shoot electricity, lol. Also, doesn't Zelda carry the power of the goddesses in her in her own games? It makes a ton of sense. Its more about whether or not its appropriate for the character and not that they used it in their own games.

also isn't electroball a projectile attack so why would jigglypuff do that

Zelda is the bloodline of goddess hylia. Has nothing to do with the goddesses of creation.

That said Zelda bloodline harbors magical ability. Usually light or holy based.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Spoiler: Not related to the topic, but related to some of the things that have been said above

aggressive

he uses his size to attack

Incorrect. He most of the time just lazily flies around the stage at very low speed instead of never stopping attacking like he does in Other M (and this thing is based off that Ridley). He uses his size for attacks only in Meta Ridley fight in Metroid Prime 3 and when he is trying to crush Samus, but thats it. He does grabs her, but that can be done even without being that big (Mario tossing Bowser in 64 and Samus slamming Vorash into the wall in Other M and a lot of her Lethal Strikes in the same game are best examples of size not being important for grabbing and throwing someone). He is very inaccurate to the source - his attacks are slow, he uses his tail only once per appearance even though he uses it very often in all Metroid games, he has to use energy from those capsules to go into "Meta Ridley" form even though he could do that on his own and its not "Meta Ridley" or anything even close to that, he actually stops attacking for no reasons, he helps anyone who slaps him hard enough even though that should only result in that character getting mangled instead, etc. Obviously, its not possible to properly represent Ridley as a stage hazard without either butchering him or making stage he appears on unplayable. But its easier to represent him as a playable character since the only thing that would really go would be his size, attack power and movement speed in the air while everything else will stay if done properly. Or, you know, actual boss rather than a glorified stage hazard since in such case, you just have to worry about him being challenging enough.

then by that logic most, if not all character's characterizations in Smash Bros are wrong.

This is true (Shoto Clone Mario, drugged Luigi, Wrestler/hunchback Bowser, slow and laggy Samus, Snake with explosives and explosives only as weapons, Ganondorf...more-or-less, slowpoke Ike, attention-seeking Marth, etc. are inaccurate to the source).

I think i already was here or in another very similar thread, but i haven't found my post in this thread, so, i probably wasn't there.
IMO, Ganondorf just needs to have his useless/barely useful attacks (*coughUTiltcough*) replaced, added projectile, hover and reflector some aesthetic changes like making him teleport/hover during dodge rolls, run like a real man who wants you dead instead of running like he is over 90 years old (even though he could jump around better than a normal human when he was older than dirt in WW), add extra darkness GFX to his attacks, etc. All of the disrespect stuff (DAir, aerial Side B, Warlock Punch, etc) certainly should stay because this is one of the main reasons he is so fun to play as or even watch and i am sure many will want those back if they would be removed. No need to completly remake his moveset. Doesn't even needs swords (and IMO, he'd better not have any because we already have many characters who use swords in many different ways and heavy-hitting slow sword guy is already done in form of Ike).
Project M did a very good work on making him feel a lot more Ganondorf-y while still being Falcondorf in terms of moveset (just a lot better). Just needs a projectile and SSB4 USmash.

 

[PhantomShab]

There is no doubt in my mind that Ganondorf got in because they could clone him, it says as much on the official Melee website, But I don't think that detracts from my point. They still took what they had an modified it. Let's look at what Ganondorf could do in Ocarina of Time, his only appearance outside the very brief space world demo. He could fly, shoot lightning balls and punch the ground. In Melee Ganondorf can have a burst of flight (dark dive) and has electric attacks (the aforementioned dark dive, his jab and his down air). If we extend his move pool to what we've seen him do as Ganon then he can use fire, pound and has a trident. His darkness ability looks pretty flame like so I reckon it was meant to be reminiscent of his flames in ALTTP and his waves of darkness in Ocarina of Time (Captain Falcon used fire first but hat doesn't stop them drawing inspiration) and is probably also he inspiration for his explosive up tilt. The things he is missing from what we've seen him do is a free float, which they already had with another character, Peach, the trident, which not only would have been more complicate to code and animate, is something he only used in his beast form and a projectile/pound which, fair enough, would have been nice, hope we get them as an alt custom in the next game.

You really are reaching here. His purple fire isn't a reference to ALttP, it's just Falcon's fire given a re-color, nothing more. And are you saying that Sakurai couldn't give a moveset to a guy who "could fly, shoot lightning balls and punch the ground.", when he came up with movesets for characters who spent all their time in an Arwing or F-Zero machine? Yeah, I'm not buying it. Ganondorf has plenty to work with, but he was shoved into Melee last minute. Now that potential will never be realized all because of Sakurai's apparent quantity>quality mindset during Melee's development.

Now you might think I'm grasping at straws with all this but I'm not. Proof that they thought about Ganondorf's history in his moveset comes in the form of his forward aerial. This attack is completely distinct from Captain Falcon's Knee. It originates from a piece of official artwork depicting his earthquake punch and the landing animation comes from the Ocarina of Time manga. Yes, Ganondorf got in because he is a clone, but when they went to make him they still considered how he should be made. This extended further when they later gave him a new forward tilt/down tilt, side special, his entrance, changed his Warlock Punch and gave him Warlock Blade. Hopefully this trend will continue into the next game in the form of his Alternate Specials which will be able to reference his abilities without changing his core moveset.

They changed his foward-air, Sakurai does care! You can hope for his custom specials to get the Palutena special treatment. I'll hope for Sakurai to not make the next Smash so Ganondorf at least has a shot at being freaking Ganondorf.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Sakurai just needs to develop a Zelda game and characters will magically get accurate movesets.

 

[Jotari]

Oh wow. When I was listing off all the characters who used something from smash in their own games, I completely forgot to mention Kid Icarus. Brawl gave that series new designs, a new weapon and a new character.

 

[1FC0]

Electroball wouldn't fit Jigglypuff at all though, she can't even learn it in her own games.

Din's Fire/Farore's Wind/Nayru's Love wouldn't fit Zelda at all though, she can't even learn it in her own games.

The three goddess spells fit Zelda because she is a magic user and they represent something important from her franchise. It'd be pretty weird to have Jigglypuff shoot electricity, lol. Also, doesn't Zelda carry the power of the goddesses in her in her own games? It makes a ton of sense. Its more about whether or not its appropriate for the character and not that they used it in their own games.

also isn't electroball a projectile attack so why would jigglypuff do that

Zelda uses Magic but never the 3 spells Links uses. It makes no sense because it is not canon. In the Zelda franchise there are many magic users but most of them only know a subset of all the magic that there is in the franchise instead of each of them having all magic powers. It makes no sense to say that Zelda could use any magic in Smash without it being weird just because she is s magic user.
That is like saying that Jigglypuff could have any normal type move in Smash like Quick Attack or Disable without it being weird just because Jiggs is a normal type Pokemon.

 

[Poxnixles]

Oh wow. When I was listing off all the characters who used something from smash in their own games, I completely forgot to mention Kid Icarus. Brawl gave that series new designs, a new weapon and a new character.

Sakurai was in charge of Uprising too, so it's naturally some stuff would transition from Brawl to that, then that to Smash 4.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Oh wow. When I was listing off all the characters who used something from smash in their own games, I completely forgot to mention Kid Icarus. Brawl gave that series new designs, a new weapon and a new character.

Guess who worked on that Kid Icarus Uprising game.

 

[Jotari]

Oh I'm well aware Sakurai made Uprising. Even if I wasn't following the game pre launch, it's super obvious when you play it with the UI layout and Idols. He also made Kirby which is why in the Amazing Mirror, Master Hand appears and the ability he gives is Smash which gives Kirby his Smash Bros. moveset.

 

[Poxnixles]

Oh I'm well aware Sakurai made Uprising. Even if I wasn't following the game pre launch, it's super obvious when you play it with the UI layout and Idols. He also made Kirby which is why in the Amazing Mirror, Master Hand appears and the ability he gives is Smash which gives Kirby his Smash Bros. moveset.

funnily enough amazing mirror came out after sakurai stopped working on the kirby series

 

[PhantomShab]

Sakurai just needs to develop a Zelda game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ

Please keep Sakurai as far away from the Zelda series as possible. I don't want Ganondorf being a Captain Falcon clone to be canon. Not to mention he can't decide if the ReDeads (zombies, so painfully obviously zombies) are made of nothing but magic (Melee description) or clay (Smash 4). Oh, and all the fun of slowly nerfing Link in every patch for the game. "Hm, the magic bar is too much fun, so I'll just remove it entirely. Oh, and I'll nerf Link's sword jabs as well!"

Sakurai would ruin Zelda.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ

Please keep Sakurai as far away from the Zelda series as possible. I don't want Ganondorf being a Captain Falcon clone to be canon. Not to mention he can't decide if the ReDeads (zombies, so painfully obviously zombies) are made of nothing but magic (Melee description) or clay (Smash 4). Oh, and all the fun of slowly nerfing Link in every patch for the game. "Hm, the magic bar is too much fun, so I'll just remove it entirely. Oh, and I'll nerf Link's sword jabs as well!"

Sakurai would ruin Zelda.

Pff, it wouldn't matter for Ganondorf. He'd get replaced by an entirely new villain a third of the way through, everything he's accomplished in the series be retroactively their doing, and literally never be mentioned again after his death.

 

[zpxociv]

People that don't want a genuine Ganondorf moveset have no business playing smash in the first place and should leave to some other fighting game that isn't about the characters themselves because smash is absolutely about them and they should all be properly represented. Now.. G..T..F..O!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Incidentally @ PhantomShab what do you think about the changes made to Ganondorf in Project M?

 

[Piedro]

People that don't want a genuine Ganondorf moveset have no business playing smash in the first place and should leave to some other fighting game that isn't about the characters themselves because smash is absolutely about them and they should all be properly represented. Now.. G..T..F..O!

If that would be the case than Sakurai might have been using original characters, but no. He chose to use Nintendo characters so they should be properly represented. Falcondorf was added on a last minute, he should be a relic of the past by now.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Incidentally @ PhantomShab what do you think about the changes made to Ganondorf in Project M?

Still more of the same honestly. But Hyrule Warriors has spoiled me so yeah.

 

[PhantomShab]

Incidentally @ PhantomShab what do you think about the changes made to Ganondorf in Project M?

While he's still pretty similar for the most part, I appreciate that the PM team got Ganondorf closer to being...himself, better than Sakurai could or ever will.

 

[Codaption]

While he's still pretty similar for the most part, I appreciate that the PM team got Ganondorf closer to being...himself, better than Sakurai could or ever will.

PM did a lot of things better than Sakurai. Admittedly, though, most of that is them constantly updating their game and fixing their previous mistakes, whereas Sakurai has always had to jump from smash game to smash game- PM started out very raw and undefined, but the PMBR spent their time making the game a lot better, while Sakurai didn't even have the option of doing this.

of course, we now have Smash 4 which goes and complicates things. But while both games have gone so far as to drastically change the movesets of some characters (Smash 4 Pit, PM Wario, etc.), thus far neither game has changed their characters much outside of the first version disregarding various buffs and nerfs. The only exception to this is PM Lucas, who prior to his revamp wasn't very popular and was considered to be very middling even by the PMBR themselves- even then, the only major change they made was replacing his neutral B (which was used very little anyway) and a few new normals. Everything else is still functionally almost identical to the original PM Lucas... Basically what I'm getting at is that we're probably not going to see Ganondorf, or any character, get any real changes in future patches.

So why didn't they declone Ganondorf in the first place? Chances are for the same reasons they kept him the same in PM, they didn't want to alienate Ganondorf mains from other games. You can compare Smash 4 Pit and Dedede, both of whom underwent some pretty big changes (Pit in specials moveset and Dedede in playstyle.) Pit has some new bells and whistles, but is overall still a lot like Brawl Pit- his down special is still a reflector that repels people, his side special is still pretty annoying and spammy, and his recovery is still unsafe but travels very far. Dedede underwent a change in playstyle due to the options of chaingrabbing and Waddle Dee walling being removed from his arsenal, but...as a character he hasn't changed all that much. Again, that's just his normals (and grab, which was changed for everyone), and if you main Dedede in Smash 4 you could still feasibly play him that same way in Brawl. Technically speaking, he really just lost one POSSIBLE playstyle.

Meanwhile, Ganondorf being declonified doesn't just mean a few normals and specials get brushed up. His ENTIRE kit is suddenly put under scrutiny, and that's very bad for returning Ganondorf mains. Going back to Dedede.... he didn't really change all that much on paper, but in reality his player base from Brawl suddenly had the rug pulled out from under him. We already had a very abrupt decloning in Brawl Falco, and while many people enjoy him as he is now there are also very many who don't (let's not forget why PM was made in the first place, after all...). You COULD do what they did with Pit and essentially just reskin his moves...but his moveset is already pretty much a reskinning of Captain Falcon's moveset, so that doesn't really solve the issue as well as one might hope. Warlock Punch is Warlock Punch, no matter how Zelda-y you make it look. Meanwhile, changing everything he has is going to cause an upset for a lot of players who like him just as he is, who'll be drowned out by the myriad of people who like the new ganon and left to wish for their old main back. Sakurai DOES care for the people who play this game, and that includes these sorts of players.

As awesome as giving him a trident or the like would be, chances are it won't happen that way. At the very least, he's still changing slowly from game to game, which does as much to satisfy everyone as much as possible. That's more than I think his successor is going to do if there is one. (Frankly, I find it silly that people think having a new game developer will suddenly make Ganondorf not a clone. Chances are he or she will care a lot less than Sakurai, who at least makes an effort to accurately portray characters and for the most part does so very well. Nobody here can deny that he at least tries, as it's the reason why Ganon being a clone is such a big deal in the first place.)

 

[Jotari]

I think its pretty well acknowledged that Ganondorf has some pretty good custom moves. But they're still clone custom moves and I personally hope we see more diversity in the next game by giving everyone unique customs. So that being said what changes would you make to Ganondorf's specials (and only his specials, I don't want to see this becoming a I hate/love Falcondorf thread), be it minor changes in the functions of his current ones or replacing moves entirely.

 

[Piedro]

Add a small projectile to warlock thrust. It would make it more usable.

 

[WorstSSBPlayerInTheWorld]

Change his neutral b to the cape like in Project M