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The King of Klones (the Ganon character design thread)

_Ganondorf_

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That's probably one of the other reasons for Sakurai picking Ganondorf to be the clone: A model to use for the GameCube already existed since that Ganondorf's Melee model also is (or is based) on the one on the 2000 Spaceworld demo. He probably included the sword in one of his victory poses as an easter egg and a based shout-out to the demo where he (presumably) got the model from. Ganondorf's design would latter be updated to Twilight Princess, and his moveset would be updated to include moves inspired by that particular incarnation's non-sword moves (while the Spaceworld Sword would then be swapped out for the Sage Sword).

As for why Ganondorf has stayed a semiclone, as I've said before, Ganondorf has made his luigified Captain Falcon moveset his own and he does his own thing with it now. However, I'd like to talk more about why I feel that way: Ganondorf is one of the few Nintendo characters who can rival Captain Falcon in masculinity and this makes Ganondorf in many ways a foil to other villains like Vaati or Ghirahim, or to the heroes: Link (while the fighting style of both tend to lean more towards power and less towards skill, Link appears to rely more on his natural talent while Ganondorf relies more on his natural strength, Link also has some effeminate features which contrasts nicely with the masculine Ganondorf) and Zelda (both are reincarnations of a divine/supernatural being, but Zelda is wise, graceful, and feminine while Ganondorf is powerful, brutal, and masculine).

However, there's a key difference between them: Captain Falcon's take on the moveset makes him look like a sentai hero with a certain finesse behind his moves, but Ganondorf's take on the moveset after Brawl, makes him look absolutely BRUTAL. And both of their appearances really sell this: Captain Falcon's suit does make him look like some sort of sentai hero while Ganondorf comes in with full armor and looks that could kill.

In a way, both Captain Falcon and Ganondorf in Smash are foils to one another too: Both are masculine, strongly built men, but Captain Falcon's masculinity enhances the flashy sentai hero he's built up as in Smash while Ganondorf's is another indicator of his status as a brutal villain. Their different takes on a moveset further enhance these images in a way that makes them fit this particular Captain Falcon and Ganondorf respectively: While Captain Falcon's moveset looks flashy and has finesse behind the moves that fits with the sentai hero he is in Smash, Ganondorf's looks powerful and brutal and has properties that vastly underplay and/or remove the flash that Captain Falcon's known for, which both fits with how serious a villain he is, and fits with the series' penchant for enjoyable silliness.

As for the burger analogy: The sword was included as an easter egg due to where his model actually came from. There's no reason for him to have it: It's just something that was put in for fun due to where the model came from.
I have to disagree;
Ganondorf doesn't rely on pure power rather than skill. In any sword fight he was in he exhibits tremendous skill with the sword and also amazing acrobatic skill. If you comprare the sword fighting between Link and Ganon, Ganon's are much more fluid and are much more pin-point accurate than Link's.
Also as "masculine" that Ganondorf is, that's not necessarily his MO. He is an all powerful Dark warlock/swordsman and he displays his power to the extreme in every fight he is in.
Smash should be no different. And Sakurai can find a different character to be "a contrast" to C. Falcon. Or just have OoT Ganon with smash moveset and TP Ganon with an original moveset, I think this is the best solution actually...
 
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Rialdospaldacht

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That's probably one of the other reasons for Sakurai picking Ganondorf to be the clone: A model to use for the GameCube already existed since that Ganondorf's Melee model also is (or is based) on the one on the 2000 Spaceworld demo. He probably included the sword in one of his victory poses as an easter egg and a based shout-out to the demo where he (presumably) got the model from. Ganondorf's design would latter be updated to Twilight Princess, and his moveset would be updated to include moves inspired by that particular incarnation's non-sword moves (while the Spaceworld Sword would then be swapped out for the Sage Sword).

As for why Ganondorf has stayed a semiclone, as I've said before, Ganondorf has made his luigified Captain Falcon moveset his own and he does his own thing with it now. However, I'd like to talk more about why I feel that way: Ganondorf is one of the few Nintendo characters who can rival Captain Falcon in masculinity and this makes Ganondorf in many ways a foil to other villains like Vaati or Ghirahim, or to the heroes: Link (while the fighting style of both tend to lean more towards power and less towards skill, Link appears to rely more on his natural talent while Ganondorf relies more on his natural strength, Link also has some effeminate features which contrasts nicely with the masculine Ganondorf) and Zelda (both are reincarnations of a divine/supernatural being, but Zelda is wise, graceful, and feminine while Ganondorf is powerful, brutal, and masculine).

However, there's a key difference between them: Captain Falcon's take on the moveset makes him look like a sentai hero with a certain finesse behind his moves, but Ganondorf's take on the moveset after Brawl, makes him look absolutely BRUTAL. And both of their appearances really sell this: Captain Falcon's suit does make him look like some sort of sentai hero while Ganondorf comes in with full armor and looks that could kill.

In a way, both Captain Falcon and Ganondorf in Smash are foils to one another too: Both are masculine, strongly built men, but Captain Falcon's masculinity enhances the flashy sentai hero he's built up as in Smash while Ganondorf's is another indicator of his status as a brutal villain. Their different takes on a moveset further enhance these images in a way that makes them fit this particular Captain Falcon and Ganondorf respectively: While Captain Falcon's moveset looks flashy and has finesse behind the moves that fits with the sentai hero he is in Smash, Ganondorf's looks powerful and brutal and has properties that vastly underplay and/or remove the flash that Captain Falcon's known for, which both fits with how serious a villain he is, and fits with the series' penchant for enjoyable silliness.

As for the burger analogy: The sword was included as an easter egg due to where his model actually came from. There's no reason for him to have it: It's just something that was put in for fun due to where the model came from.
So, tldr, the same "it fits his personality" argument instead of allowing him to do things he actually does.
 

MagiusNecros

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The go-to "defense" for Flacondorf shilling.
Yeppers. Which is why I pretty much ignore whatever Folt says on the matter.

Also Protip. To those claiming Ganondorf and Ganon are the same. This alone means Ganondorf dual wielded great swords as seen in his Beast Ganon form in OoT.

Lumps for chumps.
 
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For the one last time, do say personality or anything to Ganondorf's moveset. It s an infinite loop if one is doing it.

A promise is a promise, it is done and it has to change. If the developing team is so afraid of declone Ganondorf or includes Ridley for the pass decade. then what is point of praising the team that cannot have the guts to do something that easy? Not saying the team does not work, but the point is that the team misses the cores of the pass years.

For the one last time, don't say fit personality. It is the same as Ridley is too big argument, p.s. I want Ridley.
 

_Ganondorf_

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For the one last time, do say personality or anything to Ganondorf's moveset. It s an infinite loop if one is doing it.

A promise is a promise, it is done and it has to change. If the developing team is so afraid of declone Ganondorf or includes Ridley for the pass decade. then what is point of praising the team that cannot have the guts to do something that easy? Not saying the team does not work, but the point is that the team misses the cores of the pass years.

For the one last time, don't say fit personality. It is the same as Ridley is too big argument, p.s. I want Ridley.
Both characters made/re-made by modders for PM with limited resources (unlike the actual game makers) and besides for testers are made almost solely by themselves. And they did a heck of a job! Way better than Sakurai and his team ever did or even try to do. And although both these modders are extremely talented, Sakurai & the other developers should be ashamed that fans did a better job than they ever did...

Ganondorf:
v3.1 -
- sword & magic + duel wielding moveset
v4.1 -
- magic based moveset with 1 sword move (sword stance is yet to be added)

Ridley:
v0.75 (v1.0 has no video yet)
 

toadster101

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I don't know why people keep branding Ganondorf as a clone of Captain Falcon even though he plays completely differently.
 

_Ganondorf_

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I don't know why people keep branding Ganondorf as a clone of Captain Falcon even though he plays completely differently.
Maybe because... I don't know... At least half of his animations are a carbon copy of C. Falcon's animations? Or that his entire move set is derived from Falcon's?
Yeah the play style is different but he is still a clone/semi-clone through and through.
Only thing in Smash from his actual cannon move set is his; Final Smash, his Ftilt that he used in Twilight Princess' SWORD fight against Link.
Flame Choke is inspired from when he kills a sage with one blow, but it was more of an open hand strike than a choke but his Side special is cool with me as it's pretty original and quite different than Falcon's side special. Other than that all his moves are just slight variations on Falcon's moves *with the exception of Fair (but that isn't cannon, unless you count OoT artwork/poster). Warlock Punch = slower, stronger Flacon Punch. Wiz kick = slower, stronger Flacon Kick. Bair = slower, stronger Flacon's Bair. And the list goes on & on & on...

Are people just refusing to click/seeing the videos of the Ganondorf mods I keep posting? If anyone tells me Ganondorf isn't better off with those move sets than they must be lying through their teeth or are just completely delusional. Even better; install those mods on PM (3.02 or 3.5 respectively) and tell me he doesn't retain the same play style and "feel" as he always had just with a unique, varied and cannon move set that sets him a part as his own being and not attached to C. Falcon by proxy of sharing most of his move set with a different unrelated character. And dare I say those mods make his play style of a heavy hitter even more prominent than in any of his official smash incarnations.

He is clearly a clone/semi-clone. Which a complete disgrace to such an iconic and well thought out character with a very unique (& varied) fighting style with Swords, spells, summoning, transformations etc. there is absolutely no excuse as to why he is been a clone for 14 years already, no other character got this (horrible) treatment as at least other clones are based off other characters in their own series, and characters like Falcon, Fox, Sheik, Zelda etc. that never fight in their games get a unique move set but for a character such as Ganondorf with so many unique moves to base it on, it's just shameful. Period!

Open up the "blinders" people and stop supporting bad creative directions in regards to this series with Ganondorf being one of them. It's ok to voice discontent towards something that was made baldly. I/we/you don't have to gobble it up just because it in Smash or made by Sakurai. Every smash game is flawed in more than one way and the man is also flawed. It's perfectly expectable for someone like my self to question and complain about a bad design choice. And others who think as me shouldn't be questioned as to why we think that way. If anything in this case it the other way around...
 
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Folt

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I have to disagree;
Ganondorf doesn't rely on pure power rather than skill. In any sword fight he was in he exhibits tremendous skill with the sword and also amazing acrobatic skill. If you comprare the sword fighting between Link and Ganon, Ganon's are much more fluid and are much more pin-point accurate than Link's.
Also as "masculine" that Ganondorf is, that's not necessarily his MO. He is an all powerful Dark warlock/swordsman and he displays his power to the extreme in every fight he is in.
Smash should be no different. And Salurai can find a different character to be "a contrast" to C. Falcon. Or just have OoT Ganon with smash moveset and TP Ganon with an original moveset, I think this is the best solution actually...
The only Ganondorf I've seen that does skillful swordplay is WW Ganondorf. The rest lack a certain finesse to their moves.

And you're gonna point at acrobatic skill and hold that against Smash Ganondorf, I'll remind you that he's pretty acrobatic in Smash as well (just not as acrobatic as most Smashers).
 

MagiusNecros

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I dunno man. Really loving Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf every time I boot up the game.

A straight up Berserk Dual Wielding Swordsman is something Smash doesn't have.

Not even Pit/Pitoo can compare.

Oh BTW playable Beast Ganon coming to Hyrule Warriors soon. Another point for Koei.
 
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_Ganondorf_

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The only Ganondorf I've seen that does skillful swordplay is WW Ganondorf. The rest lack a certain finesse to their moves.

And you're gonna point at acrobatic skill and hold that against Smash Ganondorf, I'll remind you that he's pretty acrobatic in Smash as well (just not as acrobatic as most Smashers).
Twilight Ganondorf is also very acrobatic he literally leaps high in the air and than behind Link. And his sword play is very "on point" very direct strikes, and he isn't not fumbling along like Smash Ganon does. His strikes are very deliberate and are very precise.

Smash Ganon does do acrobatic things, but even still he does it in a way that looks way to sluggish and "unfocused/un-precise" and the moves them selves are just ridiculous to see (Up tilt being the worst offender) while his acrobatic skill shown in the actual games is more through high leaps/bounds using strength and quick landings and being very quick and even somewhat nimble on his feet and able to be very reactive. Shown through his blocking/countering during his sword fights. Which isn't shown what so ever with smash Ganon.

We can argue like this back and forth forever. But objectively you must admit that Smash Ganon isn't even close to representing actual Ganondorf and no excuse as to why he plays the way he does justifies it. You can like the move set and enjoy playing with him, but come on... Some objectivity can be used here it's really simple to see.

And all the Falcondorf defenders just need to stop making up excuses. He is just badly designed/represented and in any given scenario Ganondorf will never fight the way he does in smash. But it's ok! If you like him you like him, it's cool! It's awesome! More power to you! (I'm being serious btw).
But don't try and delude yourself that it's how he would play/fight if he had a choice in the matter or try and convince others of it as well cause it's just plainly wrong...
 

Piedro

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It's 2015 and people are still complaining about this?
Yes. Every character in Smash is a representation of themselves in their respective games.
Link has his bombs, sword and shield (original projectile block from the first zelda) Mario has fireballs, his jumping skills, F.L.U.D.D. etc. Ganondorf on the other hand... I think that it was a mistake to put him at the very last second in Melee. Sakurai should've waited for brawl. That 'abomination' is not Ganondorf... it is... Captain Bacon.

Another reason why i hate Melee.
 
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PhantomShab

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I don't know why people keep branding Ganondorf as a clone of Captain Falcon even though he plays completely differently.
Um...kind of because 90% of Ganondorf's moveset was ripped straight from Captain Falcon? That might have something to do with it.

It's 2015 and people are still complaining about this?
An injustice doesn't suddenly stop being an injustice just because a lot of time passes, especially when said injustice is committed time and time again without fail.
 

MagiusNecros

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Um...kind of because 90% of Ganondorf's moveset was ripped straight from Captain Falcon? That might have something to do with it.


An injustice doesn't suddenly stop being an injustice just because a lot of time passes, especially when said injustice is committed time and time again without fail.
If the guy didn't even know it probably doesn't even matter to him.
 

PhantomShab

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If the guy didn't even know it probably doesn't even matter to him.
It probably really doesn't matter at this point tbh, unless time travel becomes possible. We're stuck with Falcondorf yet again and the next Smash Bros probably won't reasonably happen until 5-7 years later, if it even happens at all. Even if it does happen, and Sakurai is directing it again, well...there goes any chances of a de-cloned Ganondorf right then and there. He'll spend dozens upon dozens upon dozens of hours into making sure his little Kid Icarus (or whatever franchise he made/brought back from the dead at the moment) characters are as well represented as possible and bloating the game with more of their content, while ignoring one of gaming's biggest villains because he honestly just doesn't give a **** about him.

Ganondorf will forever be a cheap lazy clone and all I can do is just imagine how much better he could be with a moveset that actually respected him as a character, and that just really freaking sucks. People like to brag about how "disrespectful" Ganondorf is. Well, I guess you're bound to be good at something when it's all you've ever known in your 15 years of being in Smash Bros.
 
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MagiusNecros

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Sakurai doesn't care because a accurate Ganondorf doesn't fit his vision. Much like how a accurate Ridley portrayal also doesn't fit his vision other then a thing to get beat up on.
 

Piedro

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Sakurai doesn't care because a accurate Ganondorf doesn't fit his vision. Much like how a accurate Ridley portrayal also doesn't fit his vision other then a thing to get beat up on.
So why even bother including him in the first place?
 

MagiusNecros

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So why even bother including him in the first place?
Zelda is one of Nintendo's big franchises. Smash Bros is all about the history of Nintendo characters coming together as a bunch of toy figures to fight with each other.

And roster padding.

You do raise a good point however since Sakurai said he tried to get DDD in Melee but the deadline wouldn't allow for it but he cut corners for Ganondorf. Just goes to show you where his bias is when DDD is true to character in both his appearances.

Bowser got reworked for the better with a lot of new animations, however Ganondorf while "slightly better" is still phoned in.

Some other characters are even more phoned in. Cue the Clone Corner.
 

Quillion

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Yes. Every character in Smash is a representation of themselves in their respective games.
Link has his bombs, sword and shield (original projectile block from the first zelda) Mario has fireballs, his jumping skills, F.L.U.D.D. etc. Ganondorf on the other hand... I think that it was a mistake to put him at the very last second in Melee. Sakurai should've waited for brawl. That 'abomination' is not Ganondorf... it is... Captain Bacon.

Another reason why i hate Melee.
You're right. From this point on, Ganondorf is not a playable character in ANY Smash game to me. I will never refer to that thing as Ganondorf anymore.

If only DLC could change that by actually allowing sword use as an item.
 

Piedro

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You're right. From this point on, Ganondorf is not a playable character in ANY Smash game to me. I will never refer to that thing as Ganondorf anymore.

If only DLC could change that by actually allowing sword use as an item.
'Well you've got a custom move that enables Ganondorf to use his sword.........'
NOT ENOUGH!
 

MagiusNecros

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'Well you've got a custom move that enables Ganondorf to use his sword.........'
NOT ENOUGH!
Animation is sloppy. And is just WP with the sword added to the animation. Does less damage and is basically a shield breaker. Has tipper mechanics too.
 

Atrabilious

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I'm inclined to think that the biggest issue in the moveset for Ganondorf debate is that he is essentially 'Luigified' and has a play-style all of his own, separate from C.Falcon. The fact that his current move-set represents very little of who he is in terms of his source material isn't something that should be ignored but replacing his current move-set isn't just killing off a C.Falcon clone, it's removing something that has it's own distinct flavour. Despite being derivative, his playstyle is it's own entity and removing it is not fair or beneficial for current Ganondorf players.

I think the best option would be to give Ganondorf a new move-set that embraces his appearances and actions in the Zelda games, whilst moving his current move-set to a new character. I saw someone mention F-Zero's Black Shadow earlier in the thread, C.Falcon's arch-nemesis. I think he'd be a good fit for the move-set, he's got the look of the powerful hulking bruiser type;
Unlike Ganondorf there's no issues when it comes to respecting source material because Black Shadow is just a race-car driver, there is no pre-estabished notion of how he should fight. F-Zero gets a new rep in C.Falcon's arch-nemesis, current Ganondorf players get to keep their playstyle, Ganondorf fans* get a more fitting and iconic moveset (potentially). All gain, no loss.

*not implying that people who like Ganondorf's current moveset aren't fans of his character.
 

Braydon

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The argument for keeping ganon isn't that he can win and we want to win so we want him, he's not even top tier in this game so that doesn't make sense. We want him because he has a unique and fun playstyle, which we would lose if we replaced it with a more canon set.

I think people not wanting their main completely changed, might as well be removed, is enough reason to keep him the same.

I mean, so it's not canon neither is Zelda, she uses attacks based on links spells from OoT and even though she's the twilight princess zelda she uses phantom. Zelda has the links representing it well, it's not like it lacks representation.

Is ganon a clone? Yes. Does that warrant completely changing a character people love? I don't see how.



The most important thing is that the game is fun.
 

_Ganondorf_

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I'm inclined to think that the biggest issue in the moveset for Ganondorf debate is that he is essentially 'Luigified' and has a play-style all of his own, separate from C.Falcon. The fact that his current move-set represents very little of who he is in terms of his source material isn't something that should be ignored but replacing his current move-set isn't just killing off a C.Falcon clone, it's removing something that has it's own distinct flavour. Despite being derivative, his playstyle is it's own entity and removing it is not fair or beneficial for current Ganondorf players.

I think the best option would be to give Ganondorf a new move-set that embraces his appearances and actions in the Zelda games, whilst moving his current move-set to a new character. I saw someone mention F-Zero's Black Shadow earlier in the thread, C.Falcon's arch-nemesis. I think he'd be a good fit for the move-set, he's got the look of the powerful hulking bruiser type;


Unlike Ganondorf there's no issues when it comes to respecting source material because Black Shadow is just a race-car driver, there is no pre-estabished notion of how he should fight. F-Zero gets a new rep in C.Falcon's arch-nemesis, current Ganondorf players get to keep their playstyle, Ganondorf fans* get a more fitting and iconic moveset (potentially). All gain, no loss.

*not implying that people who like Ganondorf's current moveset aren't fans of his character.
I agree with this.

And although Black Shadow (or DeathBorn) would be a cool addition to Smash that replaces current Ganon would be cool. It still will not please some fans. But even still there are other solutions like;

1) Take the same route the Triforce mod took in v4.1 (see an earlier post(s) of mine). Play style emphasis is the same hard "hitting magic infused physical warlock" but adds more emphasis on magic with 1 sword move and a float. I really can't see any fans being upset with that type of move-set overhaul if it was in the official game(s), as it's essentially the same play style but updated to be unique and more interesting.

2) Current Smash moveset goes to OoT/Melee Ganondorf and a new TP (or new LoZ game's) Ganondorf is a new character and receives a new moveset with only few similar *but not identical* things being shared between them. Like Flame Choke for OoT Ganon gets the custom move 3 variant while TP gets the original (or vice verse etc.). This scenario is a win-win situation IMHO, essentially with this literally almost everyone gets what they want.
 
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PhantomShab

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I mean, so it's not canon neither is Zelda, she uses attacks based on links spells from OoT and even though she's the twilight princess zelda she uses phantom.
Big difference, Zelda doesn't have much material to pull from for a full moveset.

Ganondorf on the other hand...
 

Braydon

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Big difference, Zelda doesn't have much material to pull from for a full moveset.

Ganondorf on the other hand...
Irrelevant, that's not the point, the point is it's not the end of the world if someone doesn't have a moveset that's wholly true to how they are in the game. And current Ganon is fun to play so people want him to stay.
 

PhantomShab

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Irrelevant, that's not the point, the point is it's not the end of the world if someone doesn't have a moveset that's wholly true to how they are in the game. And current Ganon is fun to play so people want him to stay.
I find current Ganon the furthest thing from fun tbh. And, as much as you'd like to think otherwise, it is a big deal that Ganondorf doesn't have a moveset that's faithful to him. He's not some no-name like Villager or Wii Fit Trainer, he's freaking Ganondorf. The biggest villain in Nintendo's biggest (aside from Mario) franchise. This is like if Dissidia Final Fantasy had Sephiroth fighting with nothing but punches and kicks.

People are going to call bull****, and rightfully so.
 

Braydon

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Actually think second biggest is pokemon.

Anyway I still don't see how you not liking how he plays warrants removing a playstyle a lot of people love.

The only way I'd be okay with Ganon having a new set is if someone new got the old set.
 

Braydon

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I guess you missed all the Black Shadow suggestions...
Well I don't read all 300 posts before responding, but as for Black Shadow, I don't really see Nintendo adding another F-Zero rep, I mean F-zero's not exactly the most popular game. Actually I wouldn't have even known who the Black Shadow was if they hadn't written it on the post,
 

Codaption

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.....I came into this thread despising the fact that Ganon was a clone, and by now I actually want to play him some more. Funny how that works. But hey, I'll bite. As much as I'd like to see Ganondorf with a new moveset, I don't see that happening, because most solutions being proposed just aren't likely to work.

Nintendo could easily port Ganon's current moveset onto Black Shadow (barring Flame Choke, of course), and nobody would be the wiser. Except...there's no real reason to add him to the game. Ganon, Mario, Donkey Kong....all of these are important faces that are well known. Even characters like DHD and Mac were once very well known and contributed a LOT to the videogame industry, even if they're not so well-known nowadays. Black Shadow is...what? An obscure character from an obscure game? F-Zero is another one of those once-known-but-since-forgotten games...Captain Falcon? While he's really only heard of nowadays in Smash (and MK8), he's still a gaming icon. Not to mention that he's the definitive smasher, fast and strong, able to cut foes down quick and easy. Most newcomers aren't attracted to Ganondorf, one of gaming' biggest and most interesting villains, because of his moveset similarities. Black Shadow would be forgotten about, to put it bluntly.

There's also another, simpler factor to be considered: despite being the same as Falcon in many ways, at the same time he's completely unique. Yes, I know that's an arguement a lot of people make, but that's because it's completely true.... Nobody plays even remotely like him. Change him too drastically, and we'd lose perhaps the most interesting playstyle smash has to offer.

I could also see his animations being changed, and leaving the functions of his various attacks intact... in fact, I'd like to see that very much. But how would that even work? What sort of animation would make sense to replace his Fsmash? How could you find anything worthy of replacing the mighty Dair stomp? Another good idea in theory, but in practice there's no good way to go about it.

However....I see no reason why they couldn't change small chunks of his moveset, at the very least. The reason they replaced his melee side special (the Gerudo Dragon) is because nobody used it, ever. The Flame Choke is not only MUCH more useful, but fits his playstyle a lot better. Same with a large chunk of Bowser's moveset for this game, his new Dair is basically a better Bowser Bomb. If a move is rarely used or considered useless, I see no reason to overhaul it.

Something as simple as moving Ganon's Utilt to his Dsmash (I saw somebody suggest that, it's an amazing idea), and replacing it with something similar to Mewtwo's Usmash from melee. I would like to see that, after all it's just a worse Warlock Punch as it is. Little things like that.

TD;LR: I'd like to see a non-clones Ganon, but:
-Nobody cares about Black Shadow
-Unique playstyle that defies moveset issues
-How in god's name could they do new animations!?
-Change his Utilt and Dsmash to make them more useful
Also apologies for wall of text.

Now....it's time for me to try some Ganon. :)
 
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PhantomShab

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
1,200
Well good luck with that I guess.

Just remember guys, Wario deserved better than Ganondorf in terms of movesets, according to Sakurai.

 

Piedro

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Messages
120
Well good luck with that I guess.

Just remember guys, Wario deserved better than Ganondorf in terms of movesets, according to Sakurai.
Speaking of Wario. It is kinda sad how most of Wario's source material is taken from Wario inc. series, and the original Wario Land series is getting shoved to the sidelines. Personally I prefer classic Wario, before he become farting, disgusting slob that we are presented with today.
*sigh*
Sad times........... First 'Dorf (Melee) than Wario (Brawl).... Yep, sad times.
 
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