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The impossible match-up.

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
Wolf vs DDD


It cant be done. No matter how well i space bair im always getting grabbed. His ground dodge is WAY to hard to punish with down smash or nair(horrible lag). Lasers are stopped by ddd projectiles....HELP!

I cant be the only one having trouble.........


vids and advice would be of great help.
 

Lv.99

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
227
Location
Pondering questions
Off the top of my head, I would have to say camp even more than you are now (it can be done). Other than that, my only advice is to use more reflector for the invincibility frames and to get away from DDD.

As to offense, I guess you would have to wait until he is in the ending lag of a move and then for an attack like f-smash or b-air. Any move that is fast and has little ending lag. Heck, even dash-cancel up smash would work because it gets the penguin away from you.
 

Blad01

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
1,476
Location
Paris, France
Jab to punish Spotdodges, and let him approach if you can. Play a lot with the Jab cancel, otherwise he will heratlessly shieldgrab you.

If ever you have to approach his shield : Bair. SH Bair > DJ, FJ Double Bair, or SH Bair > Jab. ;)
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
BRoomer
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
7,292
Location
Land's End (NorCal)
This really isn't a matchup where you should be using wolf, but no matter.

Jab really is good, use it to punish spotdodges. As Blad said, jab cancels are also VERY useful here. DDD is pretty large, so you might be able to hit him with retreating SH blasters even when he's grounded. A perfectly spaced bair shouldn't be punished, but it's still a lot easier said than done. Just play very defensive, and punish him for everything you can (beware though, DDD doesn't have too much cooldown on his attacks). Running away also works like a charm, spam retreating aerials until you can camp.
 

Turbo Ether

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
3,601
Ban FD. On other neutrals you can at least platform camp to mitigate chaingrab situations and not have to recover linearly due to non-gay ledges. FD is an automatic loss. Randoming it in the first match of the set is very very bad. With FD banned, DDD will counterpick Castle Siege or Delphino. When that happens you at least get a chance to counterpick a different character.

Also, you might want to consider running the clock on DDDs.
 

Sesshomuronay

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,458
Location
Canada, British Columbia
Wolf vs DDD


It cant be done. No matter how well i space bair im always getting grabbed. His ground dodge is WAY to hard to punish with down smash or nair(horrible lag). Lasers are stopped by ddd projectiles....HELP!

I cant be the only one having trouble.........


vids and advice would be of great help.
DEDEDE is wolfs hardest matchup. That big near infinate chaingrab he can do is really cheap.

I get owned by any dedede that knows how to perform the infinate thingy so my only advice would be is to space better or run away and spam more. Try counterpicking some ******** stage where he cant grab you as much like rainbow cruise or norfair. Oh and if he spotdodges hold a and you will eventually get him with the jab combo.
 

stevp

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
14
dont choose another character!!!! wolf conquers all. most of this has been said already but not all together. what i would do is keep quite a bit for sure as well as use the short hop reflector as your approach. once up there US F SMASH. king ddd is really heavy so if he is at less than 20% you can string together at least 3 fmashs if the stage permits. then use dsmash as ur killing move. also as far as movement along the ground goes. your should side dodge a lot. and quickly. ddd is big so you can side dodge to the other side of him and still be in range for a dsmash. hope this helps.
 

Ishiey

Mother Wolf
BRoomer
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
7,292
Location
Land's End (NorCal)
king ddd is really heavy so if he is at less than 20% you can string together at least 3 fmashs
I'm sorry, but you really need to play something besides CPUs.

And also, if DeDeDe shields one of your fsmashes, you pretty much lost your stock. Use it for guaranteed punishing ONLY.
 

Cuno56

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
88
Location
Humble, Texas
Let me remind everyone that d3 has a ledge infinite cg on wolf. I can't seem to find a vid of it, but it's similar to the ledgeCG d3 has on ...d3. (More reasons why d3 dittos are stupid, but I digress)

Point being even if wolf platform camps, if d3 gets a grab AT ANY TIME, it's a stock. [Unless you're in houston >.>]
 

PKNintendo

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
3,679
So how does it work? Do you grab Wolf near the edge, or can you CG him across the stage and infinite him near the edge? If it's option B ****.
 

Cuno56

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
88
Location
Humble, Texas
Wolf is the only space animal that can be cg'd.

And, yes, if wolf spaces absolutely perfectly he can't be shieldgrabbed. He'd have to keep that up the whole match to get rid of the massive advantage chaingrabbing gives, and even then i'm not sure that d3 doesn't still have the advantage.
 

Loki de Thorbald

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
4
DDD is THE hardest match up for wolf, my best advice: complete your wolf with a secondary character as game and watch for he is good against falco AND dedede, this is probably your best shot.

If you wish to use wolf against DDD, here are a few tips:

_as it has already been said, never ever try FD, this is suicide

_counter pick stages where chain grabbing isn't relevent:
pirate ship/brinstar/norfair if this is possible
if not, go to battlefield

_you can't possibly chalende a good dedede on the ground, mostly because of chaingrab and spotdodge. As it has already been said, you can punish spot dodge with jab (or down tilt), but the thing is, if you succeed, you'll give 9%, if you fail, you will take 60%... and you may fail because DDD's spotdodge is awsome. Attacking a prepared dedede is really a bad idea. Your best shot on the ground is to make him make a mistake, then to unleash hell.

_use the blast as much as you can!
Let me explain, spamming your blast and DDD spams his waldle dees isn't a solution because you will get rapped, there are 2 purposes for the blast

First, dedede is very heavy, so each percent counts, a few shots of blast will help you A LOT. The idea is not to engage a battle of B spam, but as soon as you think you may hit him, just blast. If you hit, good for you, if not, well, you are pressuring him ^^

Second, wolf is known as a possible camper...use this to your advantage, when you start spaming blast, dedede will start spamming waddle dees. If you are close enought, you can take advantage of this and B air the pinguin.
the opponent will also expect a frontal attack, use this: 0 lag F air AWAY FROM HIM, DI and blast... Keep doing this, when he moves, stop this and go kick his ***, with B air

_on the ground B air is your best friend (and only), use the wall of wolf this is the best contact strategy, but not too much...it is important you realise how much you will get ***** if you fail. Don't use smashes. Jab and down tilt may be useful, also 0 lag F air with DI as I said earlier, but only perfect B air are relevent ont he grouned.

_Those are the main ideas to piss off/damage DDD, but here is the real way (if there is a way ^^) to take dedede down. As soon as he is in the air, unleash hell, this is the only moment you will have to do most of the damages, luckily for you, wolf is good a it.

_Once dedede is in the air above the ground, use B air and U air, as much as you can

_If dedede is away, before recovering, go to him and spam B air, don't try to spike. watch out for possible edgeguards

_Don't let him recover, at any cost, because once on the ground, he will be a pain in the *** again. Hit him when he goes down (be sure to use B air to avoid his up B), don't let him grab the edge (shine or B air)





This is all I think about for now, putting pressure on the ground, kicking him in the air.

A few things to watch out:
_chain grab (amazing...), if you are chain grabbed, don't lose your confidence, instead of that, spam the jab, it will prevent you from being smashed, if he takes you to the ledge, careful to his down tilt (try to DI so you won't get *****, only hit ^^)

_wall of pain: DDD's back air is a pain in the ***, watch out.

_Also on the ground: smashes. Way less trouble some than chain grab but deadly...stay always vigilent (but I think you already know that^^), you can take advantage of this.

_Tilts are also very annoying, but they can be predicted too, shield them and punish DDD. You will win if you stay focus and use every single mistakes and punish.

I hope this will help a little
 

Turbo Ether

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
3,601
Solid advice imo.

I'm starting to agree with teh_spamerer in thinking that people exaggerate how poorly Wolf does vs DDD. I'd rather use Wolf vs DDD, than Snake, because Snake vs DDD is an ABSURDLY gay and boring match for both characters, and I don't do any better anyway. Snake has to camp explosives to an extremely boring degree, whereas with Wolf I can still fight normally and win. It's easier to avoid getting grabbed as Wolf, than as Snake in general.

Idk, I don't really think Wolf has any horrificly bad matchups anymore. I got in a good amount of practice vs Falco, MK, and DDD this weekend and did well.
 

Baro

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
461
Location
LOLhio
If you're playing a D3 that does the walking chaingrab (doable on Ganondorf, Bowser, Wolf, and Wario), ready your dsmashes and ftilts. It's a LOT easier to screw up against Wolf than you may think, so be prepared to rock his face sideways when you get the chance.
 

ArcPoint

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
1,183
Location
NorCal, California.
DDD is decent as long as you don't get grabbed. As long as it's not a super big stage... then you're good. It's not impossible, just annoying.
 
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