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The Impact of Mii Rulings

wizrad

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Hi, I'm wizrad. Today, I'm not here to argue in favor of giving Miis their moves in tournament. I'm here to show you what the severe restriction of three characters has done to the Smash community.

When a person finds that one perfect character for them, they're ecstatic. They learn all of the aspects of their moves, their combos, their setups, their neutral game, their technical tricks, their kill moves, and everything else they can learn about their character. They search for and read guides, they watch videos of their new main in action, they discuss and share knowledge with kindred spirits, and they work in the lab for hours on end to discover everything there is to know about this character. It's a lot like falling in love. Hopefully, they get married: they find themselves a tournament and finally join the community as a whole, representing their main for all to see.

Unless that special character they've found is a Mii.

There are some people out there, like myself, who find themselves head over heels in love with one of the characters that are new to Smash, one of the Miis. For me, it's Mii Brawler. He's fast, agile, combos like a mofo, and still hits like an eighteen wheeler! I had been searching for that in the other characters in the game for months since the release of the 3DS version, but they never really clicked with me. Zero Suit Samus, Luigi, Fox, Captain Falcon, Yoshi, and the likes were all close, but not quite exactly what I wanted. So, I expanded my search area to an unlikely place: the "custom" menu. There, I created a Mii Brawler with a Mii I made to look like a shark, put him in the biker gear with the spiked knuckles, checked out all of his specials, and went online with my friends to test him out. Sharky was the best character yet, but he still felt a little odd. So, I googled something like "Mii Brawler guide" to see if I could optimize him a bit. That brought me here, to the Brawler boards and the Evo moveset discussion thread. Minimum height and weight, 1122 was the verdict. I had been running max height, medium weight, and 1232. These changes took a little getting used to, but they came to be perfect for me. I love this character, as I'm sure all of you do with your mains. So it was time to take the final step. I was going to a tournament. I looked up my area on this same site and I was confounded. "1111, guest only". And with that phrase, I was turned away.

But this isn't about me. I haven't given up yet. There are others who are being shunned by the community for the character they love. And we've lost some of them. Dapuffster, who placed 13th at Evo, was the first one to go. After showing himself as a serious contender for top placements at a major tournament, he walked away because this community would not accept his character. Mew2King, whom I'm sure you all know very well from being among the best Melee and Brawl players of all time, favors Mii Brawler, too. But he's considering dropping Smash 4 as a whole because he can't play that character as the game says it can be played and no other character brings him the same satisfaction. I've heard that KP Joey, who made it to the finals of the round robin tournament at FC Return to put up a fight against ZeRo, is also planning on quitting if Corrin or Bayonetta don't appease him like Brawler does. San, noted as one of the best Ike mains, can't show us his ridiculous Mii Gunner (with whom he three stocked me repeatedly) because of the dominant Mii rules. A friend of mine from the Mii Fighter Skype group, Rhydstone, is in the same boat as KP Joey. And I've never been given the chance to go to a real tournament because, evidently, no one wants Mii there.

And yet, although we're losing players both high in status and without any status at all, nothing is changing. Our rules keep people away from our events. Our community is shrinking, not by much, but it is shrinking. I'm not here to tell you why you should switch to allowing Miis at your tournaments. I'm here to ask you this: is it worth it?

EDIT: M2K found Cloud, but the fact that he considered dropping a Smash game after mastering the previous three still says something.
 
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Thecombosetups

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It not worth setting rules that limit 3 characters. Setting rules that limit the character would be bad for Mii mains because their character is being limited.
 
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Wintropy

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From an anecdotal perspective, I have a friend who mains Mii Brawler (specifically he mains martial arts hero Jackie Chan, which is a sentence that really does speak for itself). Our local scene runs Mii Fighters with full specials* and he frequently competes there, but most other tourneys in Ireland don't do the same and he's therefore unable to devote himself to his main as he wants to. He's tried to find another character that he can fall back on should he need to travel, but he's confessed to not having as much fun with anybody other than Mii Brawler. He's considering quitting the tournament scene entirely because he isn't getting the results he wants outside of tourneys that enable Mii Fighters to use their full specials, and that's unfortunate. As a community, we should be trying to accommodate as many people as possible within reasonable expectation.

* Height / weight is currently restricted to guest sizes by default, but that's because any Mii players we've had have no problem playing with the guest sizes. I think we'd be open to changing the rule if there was sufficient demand.

I'm not saying this to emotionally blackmail people, I'm just stating the truth. Wizrad isn't wrong in what he says, and I can personally attest to that: players, even notable ones, have dropped out of, or have considered dropping out of, the community because they can't play their favourite character.

I realise that the common response is that you can play the character (in most events), you just can't change their specials, but that's not really playing the full character: it's playing a restricted version of the character for no reason other than people don't like the idea of a character having more than four special moves. But we've debated this hot-button topic for months now and it hasn't gotten us any closer to a compromise, so I will appeal to any TOs that may be reading this:

Try having full Mii Fighter specials in your next event. Just try it. You don't have to commit to it, and you don't have to feel beholden to keep it that way, but I'd encourage you to have the option available to players. If you're concerned about Mii Fighters taking extra time to create or upload, stipulate that players have to have their custom Miis uploaded before the event officially begins, or just restrict them to using the pre-installed guest Miis as their template. Keep sizes restricted initially if you're concerned that it will upset balance or you don't have official rules instated on that front - you can always change the rule if you decide to stick with full Mii specials in future! It's very easy to do and needn't take any extra time out of the event, and it will potentially entice more people to get involved and maybe even try something new.

I'd encourage everybody that organises events to just test the waters with it and see what happens: from my experience, the benefits far outweigh the detriment you may fear it will cause to your event. If it doesn't work or it causes too many upsets, that's fine, you don't have to retain the rule. I just think it's better for everybody involved to try it out and see what happens. You never know, you may just discover something interesting!
 

wizrad

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I'm going to preemptively say that I don't want any arguing about rules here. This is about the effect, not the cause. We have other threads for that.
 

Masonomace

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I've mentioned this once before in a different thread, but it's a decent example of the effect from Mii rulings for Missouri / out-of-state tournament traveling. A group of players who were carpooling were dedicated to travel to an event. Basically, they all planned on going but ended up not. The tournament would of had more entrants & setups to use had it not limit the freedom of Mii Fighters. I wanna say that half of Missouri's scene is indecisive as a result from what I've noticed so far, but I can't say for sure if that's completely true or not.

This is why I'm still hesitating on playing MSF even as a secondary, since it'd be silly to only be playing the character at some tournaments. Players that primary a Mii Fighter pick up a secondary & play that character in case we ride & play together with friends / crewmates / peers, yet still can't pick the primary character they invested most of their time into per-say.
 

W.A.C.

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Main reason I don't bother with Mii Gunner is because of the restrictions placed on Mii's. Why bother with a character who keeps having their rules changed when I can use characters that aren't going to give me this problem? If rules with Mii's were about as lenient as they were back before EVO 2015, I would consider having tiny 3312 Mii Gunner as one of my mains. But since there are these annoying restrictions, I'm not bothering with the character. I think the character has interesting potential, but Mii Gunner's meta will go nowhere with these restrictions.
 
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T0MMY

Smash Master
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Same here in Oregon. When tournaments like Paragon used the arbitrary 1111 effective ban I officially quit maining Mii because there's no guarantee that I could play my character (2232 set) especially when one of the then popular weeklies started imitating rulesets of majors despite offering ridiculously extensive options regarding stages and customs.

My interest in real competition died and I've just been playing rather half-heartedly since because ever since I competed in Melee it was about which characters I enjoyed playing in competition (being a Pichu main speaks for itself). I don't care how bad a character is, if I like playing them then the world will see some high level play - I frequently took top 32 as a Pichu main and even took R.O.B. to top 10 at Evo. But being restricted to 1111 somehow feels more scrubby than maining Pichu, and that is saying something!

Just to put things in perspective with who I am: I have been part of the Competitive Smash scene for about a decade (I can say I have been playing Smash competitively longer than some of our members have been alive now!). In that span of time I have contributed greatly, even up to this generation: I found the One Inch Punch the first week of Japanese 3DS release (no, I didn't name it and didn't mention anything about it for fear my character was going to be banned from it), discovered the F-air "pillaring" tech, and was contender for best player in my region (Pac NW).
But the world hasn't really seen anything passionate from me due to a silly arbitrary ruling against my character. I can't even imagine being a part of this community at all if Pichu or R.O.B. were quashed, my guides would not have been written, my groups not created, and many friendships never formed from when I traveled the country attending MLGs and other majors. But I don't have to imagine how it goes this generation of Smash, because it's happening, to me and too many other Mii mains who do not get their voice heard over the vocal minority crying out "broken", "jank", "ridiculous", "OP", and of course "not fair".

The Smash Community can be an amazing one, but it isn't perfect. There are some great people doing great things and usually these issues get fixed, however this time around it's taking a long time and we have probably already lost many potentially awesome members and possible friends over this issue.
Let's work to fix this, the sooner the better.
 

BlueTerrorist

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I can attest to this. So many times I thought about quitting because I put months and a regional into Mii Gunner, only to be limited for no reason at all. As of now either Corrin or Bayonetta appeals to me (or some other character if at all) or I cant bring myself to take the community seriously and quit competitive smash 4 entirely. Nebulous has Free Mii's but most tournaments in NY don't follow this. Also practiced 1111 Gunner but something feels like it's missing something.
 

/|Sawtooth/|

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Not to sound redundant, but I thoroughly share this thread's sentiment.

I played a lot of Mii Brawler in the months leading up to EVO 2015. Finding a main was proving to be a rather difficult task for me to accomplish, with Sm4sh being not only my first Smash Bros. game that I played competitively, but my first competitive fighting game, period. The crazy amount of characters certainly didn't help my situation. I jumped between several characters: starting at Sonic and Falco (my filthy casual Brawl mains), and migrating between multiple characters: Capt. Falcon, Toon Link, Bowser Jr., Marth, Ganon, Dark Pit, R.O.B., and probably a few more that I'm forgetting about.

Around April or so, I had gone back to Sonic, having chosen to go back to my roots or whatever. I'm not sure where I heard the commotion from exactly, but I heard some talk about how powerful Mii Brawler was, so I decided to try him out. I started experimenting with him for about a week or so, and developed a great appreciation for the character. In a little while longer, I was convinced that I had a new main with the 2122 and 1122 movesets. I loved his air speed, his Feint Kick tricks, the mighty power of Helicopter Kick and Ultimate Uppercut, and I greatly appreciated the utility offered by Shot Put once I learned to space it properly. Luckily for me, the custom moveset project was being put into effect at my local tourney, so I was able to get started with Miis straight away. I was still a tournament noobcake, so bringing Mii Brawler didn't drastically improve my results, but I just felt so... comfortable with the character in a way I hadn't felt with Sonic. For a while, I co-mained Sonic and Mii Brawler, eventually switching out Sonic for Roy but eventually dropping them both down to secondaries, again, due to my greater character comfort with Mii Brawler. Weeks before EVO, I stopped bringing my Sonic into bracket and left Roy into deep secondary/pocket territory, choosing to stick with Brawler for the majority of matches. I thought that my maining situation had finally settled down.

Then EVO 2015 passed and Miis were shifted to 1111D immediately.

Whether I was ignorant of public opinion or naive to the functions of the tournament scene in general, this shift came as a shock. I couldn't perform well at all with 1111D Brawler, having practiced with a Tiny Brawler while heavily integrating Feint Kick and Helicopter Kick into my playstyle, so I had pretty much no choice but to drop him again.

So, there I was, once again scrambling for a main after finally finding one after all those months. It took me a while to find Mario, resorting to him because he was the closest thing I could find to Brawler that didn't suck at 1111.

It was only around October or so last year that I could feasibly put time into Brawler again, since I convinced my college's TO to adopt the MLG ruleset after conducting a survey of attendees.

Taking away character security is one of the worst things that you can do to a Smash player. It's like telling Shulk mains that they can't use his Monado Arts, or only letting Pac-Man use specific varieties of fruit in his Neutral-B and banning all of the rest. These are key features of the characters, and when you restrict Miis to 1111, it takes away a key feature of the character: their flexibility with moves.

So that's my story.

Also, calling Miis "not actual characters" is just insulting. I'm sorry that they take up a spot on the roster that you don't approve of, despite their attributes constantly being tweaked in balance patches and having their associated bugs dealt with like any other "real" character. Just because you're salty/disappointed doesn't mean you get to attack a player's integrity.
 
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outfoxd

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Mii gunner may well offer the stage control and trapping gameplay i wanted from DH, but with power and a better recovery.

I'll never know at this rate.
 

19_

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There was a problem fetching the tweet
LiteralGrill LiteralGrill
This needs to happen.

I anyone has any stories feel free to let capps know.
 

LiteralGrill

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Yes, let your hearts out guys. I probably got until Friday night where I could take responses. Tag me here, I'll include them. :)
 

Foie

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LiteralGrill LiteralGrill here's my story. I love smash. Play it for fun with my friends all the time. A lot of my friends are semi-competitive and I even went to a few brawl tourneys back in the day.

I have attended one smash 4 tournament, during the time before Evo 2015. Since the game came out, there wasn't a single character that I gravitated towards or picked as a main. It was rather discouraging for months on end. That is until I found mii braver. I saw a YouTube video of his cool tricks, made the most kick*** Jackie Chan, practiced a lot, and went to my first tourney with some 50 people. Had a lot of fun, did well in doubles, didn't get far in singles.

Not long after, my character was banned alongside custom moves. I haven't gone back to a tournament since then, because I haven't found any other character I have any desire to compete with.

All because the TOs in my area are stubborn, not even willing to compromise with the MLG rules despite no evidence it would hurt the scene. They literally laughed and ridiculed me when I brought it up on the community Facebook group. I was strongly turned off to competitive smash after that and even though I'd like to go to another tourney at some point, I haven't had a strong desire to make it happen.

Now I mostly just drink and play for glory with online scrubs.
 
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wizrad

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Join the Mii Support-er, I mean, Discord group! You can play Mii whatever with us. Not everyone always goes Miis, though, so it's not monotonous. Also, I suggest the Custom Fighters Discord as well, as they have more varied members with whom we can play free Miis.
 
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