The Great Debatemania! PHASE 3, ROUND 5 START!

[APC99]

My Biography:

(Note: I require Snake Man's theme to accompany my biography (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLvWGaW-On8)

Long, ago, in the year 1999, there was a birth. And, what a glorious birth it was. That day, April 27th, a baby boy, named Aidan, was born. He was an artistic boy, but the gods had predestined his fate.

In the year 2010, the boy received Brawl for his Wii. And from that day on, he used his artistic abilities, cunning and intelligence for SMASH!

Also, he's a member of the Gearheads (robot-building students to fight each other), the Art Squad, the Tetris Lovers, Nintendog Support Club, the musical drama known as Little Shop of Horrors, the Illuminati, the Justice League, the X-Men, Team Star Fox and a Lost Boy in Neverland (the Once Upon A Time version, not Disney).

Movesetter, Musician, Artist, Robot Builder, Gravity Falls fan, Believer. It's time to add debater to that list.

Ladies and gentleman, the Knight of Koloktos, the Sultan of Snake Man, the Bully of Bill Cipher, the Defender of Dr. Mario, APC....99!

​

 

[LoneKonWolf]

well this thread looks good (gotta bring some popcorn when the debate begins)

can't wait to see what happens when things get rolling

 

[jaytalks]

Jaytalks
Real Name: Unknown (although, you can probably guess)
Weight: Unknown
Height: Unknown
Date of Birth: Unknown
From Sunnydale, California
Favorite Game: Chrono Trigger

Jaytalks is a person. Who at one point may have been born in fall time. A pop culture connoisseur, he tends to watch too much TV. Knows too much about comics and superheroes. Also has an addiction to watching the news. But his true love is video games. It started with the NES and the SNES, but expanded to current day. A Nintendo fan through it all. From the revelation (and cartidges) of the N64, to the gamecube's trials and tribulations. The Wii's unlikely boom and unfortunate bust. He watches the Wii U progress, hoping for its success. The Game Boy Color, The Game Boy Advance, the DS, and 3DS all have been in his pocket at one time or another.

He loves talking about video games. The Legend of Zelda, Final Fantasy, Fire Emblem, Super Smash Bros etc. Hence, the moniker of jaytalks was born.

 

[peeup]

We respected Smashchu?

Why the fudge are people still talking about SmashChu? You're so 2000 and late.

#AntiPac4Ever

 

[APC99]

Put your finger in your ear and scratch.


What does it sound like?

THE WINNING SIDE.​

​

()​

 

[Louie G.]

I WOULD LIKE TO ARGUE FOR PAC-MAN.
Pac-Man is easily the best 3rd party choice. Sure, his new form isn't quite as iconic as his 8-bit sprite, but a battle of Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, AND Pac-Man would be beyond legendary.

 

[Spears In Smash Bros.]

Sorry kid, too late. Maybe you can sign up for the next debate in a week or so.

 

[APC99]

I WOULD LIKE TO ARGUE FOR PAC-MAN.
Pac-Man is easily the best 3rd party choice. Sure, his new form isn't quite as iconic as his 8-bit sprite, but a battle of Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, AND Pac-Man would be beyond legendary.

Sorry, but the team's all filled up. Hope to see you as a spectator, though! Here, PM me and I'll listen to what you have to say 'bout Pac-Man.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Need....

Debates....

 

[KingofPhantoms]

It's off to a slow start.....I don't think it even has started yet.

But it'll be worth watching when it finally does, I'm sure.

 

[Morbi]

It's off to a slow start.....I don't think it even has started yet.

But it'll be worth watching when it finally does, I'm sure.

Yeah, you would be correct. It has not started yet. Hopefully it gains some momentum. I really want this to be something. I cannot wait to spectate the debate if its not too late. I just wanted an extra rhyme. Haha.

 

[FalKoopa]

Phase 3 needs to start soon enough.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Yeah it does seem to be dragging. This is the first session so ill hopefully improve on things that lacked. This is kind of a trial period so naturally its kind of buggy. I may have the debates start on Friday as opposed to Monday. A weekend debate. I chose Monday since best fit for the staffs schedules as well as mine.

Louie G, the time for applying is over. Feel free to apply next time!

 

[SonicMario]

Keeping an eye on this thread. I'm mainly neutral on Pac-Man, don't really mind if he gets in or not. But I'll be awaiting both sides of the argument ^^

It'd be funny if one day though in the midst of debate the character being talked about gets confirmed. xD Probably won't be for a while though, I imagine the majority of the debates will be based on Newcomers. And right now only veterans are being.

Also is there a current list on what the next debates are after Pac-Man? Because there's two characters that might bring up interesting debates because of how they contrast: Ridley (The character most people on Smashboards want, but ever since the Pyrosphere stage was revealed. Chances are more arguable then ever) and Miis (The character most people on Smashboards don't want, but still considered a likely possibility)

 

[Conviction]

Due to Venus being a little busy we can't put up the poll for the next character for debate. Bare with us a little longer.

 

[FalKoopa]

Due to Venus being a little busy we can't put up the poll for the next character for debate. Bare with us a little longer.

Can I help out?

 

[Conviction]

Can I help out?

Sure, check out the PM. It should have the characters we decided on.

 

[peeup]

True fact: AntiPacs were ready to debate a week ago and the ProPacs pitifully requested extra time.

 

[Spears In Smash Bros.]

The thread was made on Monday.

 

[peeup]

Details, trivialities, and semantics.

 

[Pacack]

I'll certainly be watching the Pro-Pac side. I may join the debate when Toad comes up.

 

[APC99]

True fact: AntiPacs were ready to debate a week ago and the ProPacs pitifully requested extra time.

True Fact: Scientists can prove that withdrawal from reality can cause explosive diarrhea, weakness during motion, and disability to get facts straight.

 

[jaytalks]

Yeah it does seem to be dragging. This is the first session so ill hopefully improve on things that lacked. This is kind of a trial period so naturally its kind of buggy. I may have the debates start on Friday as opposed to Monday. A weekend debate. I chose Monday since best fit for the staffs schedules as well as mine.

Louie G, the time for applying is over. Feel free to apply next time!

Friday seems like a good time to start. When would it end? And in all honesty, I usually save all my good research for the last second, like any true student.

Due to Venus being a little busy we can't put up the poll for the next character for debate. Bare with us a little longer.

The poll will end up stuck there though, won't it? Can't we use a polling site or something?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Couple announcements guys:

1) remember to cite any sources and provide a link to them during a debate or asked by the opposing team.

2) The debate will commence in little under24 hours. Due to the fact I will be in the air traveling, I'm going to starting it around 5 am EST. I apologize if that is too early for most. Therefore, please feel free to debate at your leisure. Normally, I will start the Devates at 8-9 am.

3) any changes of the rules will be announced. Please keep track of those.

4) the character poll will be out up shortly.

5) Contact a staff member for information.

6) Greetings from Venus in Tokyo! View from my hotel room of Tokyo tower.

 

[Zzuxon]

3 am for me. Alrighty, let us get this show on the road.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Hi everyone!

So I'm sorry if this is a bit anticlimactic and sudden but I will be starting the Debate now. Phase 3 will start from now. I'm at the airport and my plane leaves at 7 pm.

The first round is for Opening Statements. Teams, please present your points and arguments. Avoid discussing about about upcoming round topics. This round is an introduction and discussion of the talking points. Please keep the debate clean and on-topic.

Phase 3
Round 1: Opening Statements
Start!!!!

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Gooood morning Smashville! The sun is shining, the birds are singing, the crowds are cheering, this is looking to be one fine day for a debate! Both sides are taking a moment to bask in the crowds' excitement and I mean could you blame them? As soon as our debaters make their way on to the stage our event will commence!

 

[Dr. Flinn]

All righty then, The Doctor is out.

Come on Propac's, gimme your best shot.

 

[Conviction]

Don't be afraid to remind your teammates or the people you are debating against about this.

 

[jaytalks]

in the name of good, clean fun, let get this thing started!
Here's our team logo, based on the original Pac-Man intro:

Still a little unclear on how opening statements work. Does each member of team introduce themselves and then say their opening statements? Or do teams take turns in introducing themselves or something like that?

 

[APC99]

Can I hear a WAKKA WAKKA?
Super Smash Bros. is at it's core a game about Nintendo's many consoles' all-stars clashing with each other in glorious battle. And, Pac-Man is an all-star beyond a shadow of doubt, even if he's a third-party character. This series was MADE for characters like Pac-Man.

Who are we? Team-Pro-Pac. ScatmansWorld25, ThatWasPeachy, Zzuxon and I (APC99) are ready to prove the pellet-pursuing Pac-Man is worthy of being in the roster of this excellent fighting game.

 

[Pacack]

Can I hear a WAKKA WAKKA?
Super Smash Bros. is at it's core a game about Nintendo's many consoles' all-stars clashing with each other in glorious battle. And, Pac-Man is an all-star beyond a shadow of doubt, even if he's a third-party character. This series was MADE for characters like Pac-Man.

Who are we? Team-Pro-Pac. ScatmansWorld25, ThatWasPeachy, Zzuxon and I (APC99) are ready to prove the pellet-pursuing Pac-Man is worthy of being in the roster of this excellent fighting game.

Love the sticker. Go Team-Pro-Pac!

 

[jaytalks]

Can I hear a WAKKA WAKKA?
Super Smash Bros. is at it's core a game about Nintendo's many consoles' all-stars clashing with each other in glorious battle. And, Pac-Man is an all-star beyond a shadow of doubt, even if he's a third-party character. This series was MADE for characters like Pac-Man.

Who are we? Team-Pro-Pac. ScatmansWorld25, ThatWasPeachy, Zzuxon and I (APC99) are ready to prove the pellet-pursuing Pac-Man is worthy of being in the roster of this excellent fighting game.

For the sake of conceptual symmetry:
Add this in there for good measure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djWzI_60h60

The question is not about the status of Pac-Man's iconic nature. Pac-Man is important to video game history. The series was made to a battle of Nintendo All Stars. Should Pac-Man be in Super Smash Bros? Would we even be asking this question with the same amount of demand and fervor if Namco wasn't co-developing the game? Luckily, we know the answer to this based on the previous iteration of Smash:

Spoiler

Let's look how much people discussed and wanted Pac-Man in the Brawl Era, in the Smashboards community:
The Pac-Man Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/threads/the-pac-man-support-thread-wakka-wakka-wakka.72299/
10 pages
Let's do some comparison, with various characters demanded in Brawl
Another third party character: Moogle thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...-ultimate-and-final-mog-moogle-thread.132823/
17 pages
A returning veteran thread: Roy thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...pace-story-made-in-latest-post.121880/page-23
23 pages
A new franchise newcomer thread: Takamaru thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-takamaru-in-brawl-thread-added-more-material.73419/page-29
29 pages
A returning franchise newcomer thread: Daisy thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/princess-daisy-for-ssbb.72216/page-20
20 pages

The demand, support, and discussion of a possible Pac-Man character was much lower than these four example characters. There would have been some Pac-Man support, if Namco wasn't co-developing. But not at the level we've seen since the announcement of SSB4. And this isn't the only thing Pac-Man has working against him.

Introducing, Team Anti Pac-Man: Dr. Flinn as Blinky, Jaytalks as Pinky, peeup as Inky, and Spears in Smash Bros. as Clyde. Though we will be playing the role of the Ghosts for this debate, Pac-Man greatest opponent won't be us. It will be the data. Because no amount of power pellets will give him the ability to chomp away the data we have planned.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Man, I gotta tell ya, this crowd is somethin' else.

I can hear it through the booth!

John Madden

 

[APC99]

For the sake of conceptual symmetry:
Add this in there for good measure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djWzI_60h60

The question is not about the status of Pac-Man's iconic nature. Pac-Man is important to video game history. The series was made to a battle of Nintendo All Stars. Should Pac-Man be in Super Smash Bros? Would we even be asking this question with the same amount of demand and fervor if Namco wasn't co-developing the game? Luckily, we know the answer to this based on the previous iteration of Smash:

Spoiler

Let's look how much people discussed and wanted Pac-Man in the Brawl Era, in the Smashboards community:
The Pac-Man Thread: http://www.smashboards.com/threads/the-pac-man-support-thread-wakka-wakka-wakka.72299/
10 pages
Let's do some comparison, with various characters demanded in Brawl
Another third party character: Moogle thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...-ultimate-and-final-mog-moogle-thread.132823/
17 pages
A returning veteran thread: Roy thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...pace-story-made-in-latest-post.121880/page-23
23 pages
A new franchise newcomer thread: Takamaru thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-takamaru-in-brawl-thread-added-more-material.73419/page-29
29 pages
A returning franchise newcomer thread: Daisy thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/princess-daisy-for-ssbb.72216/page-20
20 pages

The demand, support, and discussion of a possible Pac-Man character was much lower than these four example characters. There would have been some Pac-Man support, if Namco wasn't co-developing. But not at the level we've seen since the announcement of SSB4. And this isn't the only thing Pac-Man has working against him.

Introducing, Team Anti Pac-Man: Dr. Flinn as Blinky, Jaytalks as Pinky, peeup as Inky, and Spears in Smash Bros. as Clyde. Though we will be playing the role of the Ghosts for this debate, Pac-Man greatest opponent won't be us. It will be the data. Because no amount of power pellets will give him the ability to chomp away the data we have planned.

By this logic of Brawl threads, Bowser Junior (8 pages) , Little Mac (9 pages), the Villager (1 page) and arguably Pac-Man's biggest competitor Lloyd Irving (4 pages) shouldn't appear in SSB4. And honestly, discussion means nothing. The amount of pages to a thread doesn't mean the character is less popular or has lower chances. For instance:

Waluigi has 21 pages currently.
Dixie Kong has 12 pages.

So Waluigi's a better fit?

There's more pages in the Kamek thread than Mr. Resetti, Bandana Dee or Bomberman. Looks like he's the best character.

Impa has more pages than Takamaru.

Pac-Man has more pages than Little Mac OR Palutena.

And Pac-Man is quite a Nintendo All-Star, but I'll save that for the later rounds.

 

[jaytalks]

By this logic of Brawl threads, Bowser Junior (8 pages) , Little Mac (9 pages), the Villager (1 page) and arguably Pac-Man's biggest competitor Lloyd Irving (4 pages) shouldn't appear in SSB4. And honestly, discussion means nothing. The amount of pages to a thread doesn't mean the character is less popular or has lower chances. For instance:

Waluigi has 21 pages currently.
Dixie Kong has 12 pages.

So Waluigi's a better fit?

There's more pages in the Kamek thread than Mr. Resetti, Bandana Dee or Bomberman. Looks like he's the best character.

Impa has more pages than Takamaru.

Pac-Man has more pages than Little Mac OR Palutena.

And Pac-Man is quite a Nintendo All-Star, but I'll save that for the later rounds.

The question is not about the status of Pac-Man's iconic nature. Pac-Man is important to video game history. The series was made to a battle of Nintendo All Stars. Should Pac-Man be in Super Smash Bros? Would we even be asking this question with the same amount of demand and fervor if Namco wasn't co-developing the game? Luckily, we know the answer to this based on the previous iteration of Smash:

My point wasn't using pages to determine if Pac-Man will be in the game through page count. So all the characters and comparisons you brought up miss the point. Here is the exact question I asked: "Would we even be asking this question with the same amount of demand and fervor if Namco wasn't co-developing the game?" Pac-Man's name comes up in discussion naturally more because Namco is co-developing. The discussion of him being in Smash increased because Namco is co-developing. People expect him more because Namco is co-developing. I think that is without a doubt.

 

[Moon Monkey]

We are just days away from the first encounter and the 2 teams seem already to be going at it! The tension is rising for everyone's favorite 80% pie chart!

Let's save it for the ring guys!

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Right from the get-go the two teams let lose! This is tremendous, folks! It was as if the pent up excitement has exploded! But hopefully they keep this energy going for the duration of the debate!

As the host of the debates, I would like to make a few suggestions concerning the Opening Statements that I failed to go over previously.

The Opening Statements is a way for both the audience, the debaters, and the staff to gauge individual debaters. By highlighting and presenting their talking points/topics, everyone has a better image of what to expect from each debater. I would consider it unwise to throw out all your research and information at the start.

So how should you go about the Opening Statements? First, present your talking points. What will you argue on? What is your main point? Secondly, present the topic in a way that supports your statements. It is simple to say "I think character A is likely/unlikely." However, explain briefly why you think this by presenting Then correlate that to why you support/reject character A. Finally, use this time to gauge the other team and prepare some arguments to be used in the later rounds.

I hope this all makes sense.

And audience, remember to click that Like button! Liking a post is a sure way to get them the win!

Oh, and the POLL is finally up! Go to the OP to find and it and vote on the character you would like to see int he next debate!! The poll will be taken down this weekend and then winner announced next week.

Happy debating everyone!!

 

[Conviction]

For all you in school or those did do well in English class, he means a thesis. Something strong to hold yourself to as you go through these next couple of days.

 

[Spears In Smash Bros.]

My point wasn't using pages to determine if Pac-Man will be in the game through page count. So all the characters and comparisons you brought up miss the point. Here is the exact question I asked: "Would we even be asking this question with the same amount of demand and fervor if Namco wasn't co-developing the game?" Pac-Man's name comes up in discussion naturally more because Namco is co-developing. The discussion of him being in Smash increased because Namco is co-developing. People expect him more because Namco is co-developing. I think that is without a doubt.

In addition, the length of a thread discussing a character is not a good measure of that character's likelihood, rather, it is a measure of how controversial that character is.
You might note that the Brawl-era Pac-Man discussion was quite short, and that a fairly high number of the posts were dismissive of the idea of Pac-Man being in Brawl. So much, in fact, that the notion that Pac-Man would not be in Brawl wasn't very controversial at all. Waluigi and Impa, from my personal experience, are very controversial characters, for specific reasons I do not care to go into right now.
Meanwhile, characters like Palutena and Little Mac are much less divisive, and support for them is more widespread to the point where their inclusion in SSB4 is seen as near certainty in comparison, as their results in the Rate Their Chances threads can attest to.

We are just days away from the first encounter and the 2 teams seem already to be going at it! The tension is rising for everyone's favorite 80% pie chart!

Let's save it for the ring guys!

I thought that the opening statements were today. And that Pac-Man was supposed to be most of a cheese pizza, not an 80% pie chart.