The Falchions - Marth & Lucina Match-Up Discussion

[Locuan]

​

Welcome everyone to the new Marth and Lucina Match-Up Thread! Now that custom moves are being adopted throughout most competitive scenes, and both characters similarities, I am restarting the discussions in order to focus on both default and custom move scenarios. This will prove helpful in terms of updating the thread in a more timely manner, as well as keeping things organized. First, I would like to address the differences between this thread and the old ones.

1. As you will note from the match-up table below, you will see that there are boxes for both default moves as well as custom moves. These will indicate match-up scoring between both scenarios.
2. The scoring system will also be different. It will not involve match-up ratios. When indicating match-up scoring one will state if you feel the match-up is even, a small advantage, small disadvantage etc. It is best if you saw how it would work as indicated below:
   • +3 = large advantage
     +2 = moderate advantage
     +1 = small advantage
     ±0 = even
     -1 = small disadvantage
     -2 = moderate disadvantage
     -3 = large disadvantage
3. Individual threads for character discussions will be created and linked on this main thread on the second post as well as by clicking on the link for the match-up inside the table. Scheduled for weekly discussions.
4. If Marth and Lucina have a notable difference in a match-up it will be indicated in the final row of the table.

Next, let's talk general posting guidelines:

• Substantiated posts. This means, we want posts that carry relevant information instead of, "Marcina wins."
• Video/VOD backup to your information is greatly appreciated and carries more strength.
• Civil discussion. We will have both the Lucina and Marth communities pitching in their thoughts as well as members who frequent the character boards whose character we are discussing at the time. Let's get along.
• We must assume that both sides of the character discussion are using their characters to the utmost potential.

The old match-up Threads
Marth: http://smashboards.com/threads/marth-match-up-discussion-update-zss.383174/
Lucina: http://smashboards.com/threads/lucina-match-up-discussion-update-kirby.373171/
http://smashboards.com/threads/lucina-match-up-discussion-update-kirby.373171/
Match-Up Table

Special Moves Allowed| | | | | | | | | |
Default only || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?
Default + Custom || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?
Difference || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?

Special Moves Allowed| | | | | | | | | |
Default only || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?
Default + Custom || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?
Difference || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?

Special Moves Allowed| | | | | | | | | |
Default only || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?
Default + Custom || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?
Difference || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?

Special Moves Allowed| | | | | | | | | |
Default only || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?
Default + Custom || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?
Difference || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?

Special Moves Allowed| | | | | | | |
Default only || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?
Default + Custom || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?
Difference || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?

Special Moves Allowed| | | | | | | | |
Default only || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?
Default + Custom || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?
Difference || ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ?

 

[Locuan]

Shiek

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-falchions-match-up-discussion-week-1-shiek.402251/

 

[FullMoon]

Well, this is convenient. Hello lords, the Greninja boards are going to start talking about Marth and Lucina now so any contributions would be really appreciated: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...cina-sword-mii-sheik-5-18-5-25.369356/page-20

We're mainly looking for info on how to deal with your character rather than focusing on who wins the MU, so do keep that in mind if you're going to post there.

 

[Giannis]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask (if not, please move it to the right thread, sorry for the inconvenience) but I would like some guidelines on how to face Bowser. I faced a decent player in a recent tournament and he pretty much destroyed me with his grab game... Any tips/strategies?

 

[Ffamran]

REMATCH, Princess! And no, I don't need a "Beaststone" and no, my beak doesn't come off easily... well, you need some force to remove it...

Greeting, royal highnesses, the Falco boards started their ongoing Lucina matchup discussion and would like some input from the challengers of fate. Link: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4...ina-aint-a-taguel-or-a-laguz-princess.403634/.

And for learning about the MU or just for fun, there's always this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Hello mains of the Hero King (and his descendant), I'm here to talk about some MU discussion:
vs
vs

Please join us by clicking here to start discussing.

 

[Admiral_Dante]

Been lurking for a while.. but I really need advice.

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but I'm really looking for some Ness tips. Seems like I get juggled by pk thunders for days and die to Ness racking up crazy damage and then back throwing me for the stock... Only times I seem to win is when I get a counter gimp by countering his Up b and/or when I get the rare shield breaks and tipper f smashes...

I just feel like Marth should beat Ness, but I'm losing in the lamest ways...

 

[BJN39]

Hello Marths & Lucinas!

The Zelda boards have started a week-long period of discussion discussion on Marth, and we'd love it if any of you could drop by, and give some input/scores. ^ ^

Click Zelda to be teleported directly to our MU thread!

 

[Admiral_Dante]

Had a whole spiel here, but it was a pretty rough write up and the MU has changed a little imo with jab basically leading to quite reliable damage and kill setups and Ness having a little harder time getting in.

Marth has less difficulty with him now, and gimping Ness is a still alive and well. However, the mu is still a 50/50 match imo, just now Marth doesn't rely quite as heavily on gimps and hard reads to win.

 

[HeavyMetalBird]

While Roy is only a day old in smash 4, from what I've played of him marth it seems he is a good marth counter. Marth mat be ablessed to push past with well timed counters but if someone could test this a bit more that would be great. The match up is sure to change however as Roy's play and techniques have hardly developed in the current meta.

 

[Murlough]

I've hardly a Marth main (although im REALLY enjoying his character now so maybe...) but Ive been duking it out with a decent roy and we seemed to be evenly matched.

 

[OTG Paladin]

i like marth vs roy
in neutral roy doesnt really do anything that should be scaring anyone.
marths grabs put roy in a more disadvantageous position then roys throws againest marth
if the marth is always minding their distance then the roy should not be killing easily until 150 or 160

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Marths out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Marth. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Marth match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/410743/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

On an additional note, for those who want to discuss Rosalina's match-up against Lucina, head to the following link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/410745/

 

[Admiral_Dante]

I'm not even sure if we Marth mains even talk about matchups anymore.

Nah... These days we just take our time and jab into fsmash. Everybody.

 

[Zio~]

I'd like to know how's marth match up against meta knight, I can't really find a way to aproach him somewhat safety, he is just too fast on air and ground. am I really in that big disadvantage or I just suck? and if someone can give me some tips I'd appreciate.

 

[HFlash]

@ Zio~ I don't see how metaknight can be so hard. Honestly, and long as you do safe, spaced fair, f/dtilt, meta knight really doesn't have the range nor speed to reach us. Play it safe, he will probably win if you just rush has face in, as his only approach options (as stated by Ito, one of the best metaknights in the world) is to do alot of SH and either dash attack or grab. Fox or Falcon are more the characters that can give marth problems.

@ Admiral_Dante Holy cow you are right! For a character as popular as Marth, you would think hisMU thread would be more active. But to be fair hehehe....... with these regular Marth is picking up, Marth's MU spread seems to be going more and more positive, so people really don't know where he stands. He is definitely not bottom tier like he was on release, and is imo around mid tier atm with only room to improve.

 

[Lhivorde]

What do people think of the ZSS matchup? I personally have been having a hard time with it.

 

[HFlash]

What do people think of the ZSS matchup? I personally have been having a hard time with it.

I'm not sure what the general consensus is, but what exactly is it about ZSS that is giving you so much trouble? She is quicker, and can punish you harder than you can with grabs, so as with most characters going vs. ZSS, you probably want to bait her grab and play defensively. I don't see how she can punish a wall of retreating fairs. You can swat gun shots away with fair, and her nair doesn't reach. Also, don't use your double jump in the neutral, if you double jump, she can just run to where you are going to land and grab. To put it succinctly, don't get grabbed.