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The Debate Hall Social Thread

manhunter098

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
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Orlando, Sarasota, Tampa (FL)
Here's a question for you guys; Is money free speech?
In most cases I would have to say that it isn't, though protecting those rights certainly is much easier when you have the money to defend yourself properly in court. In the US we really have a great degree of freedom in regards to expression of ideas, there are certainly threats to that free speech (like the Patriot act), but overall I dont think that money has much to do with it.
 

CRASHiC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
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Haiti Gonna Hait
I really think we should still be letting people into the Debate Hall. I think I was the last bunch to come through, or the 2nd to last, and since then, activity gradually declines. New faces promote activity because of their how excited they are to participate, and a great deal we have come to agreements on because we have debated and certain information was brought to our attention by other members. (though I think we will always be divided on economic issues hahaha). Since basically everyone of our mods are MIA, could we get Alt4 as a mod so he can activate those PG members who have earned it?

Oh well.

I'd like to recomend that the Current Event topic be on vaccines and their connection to medical disorders.
 

Crimson King

I am become death
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
28,982
I really think we should still be letting people into the Debate Hall. I think I was the last bunch to come through, or the 2nd to last, and since then, activity gradually declines. New faces promote activity because of their how excited they are to participate, and a great deal we have come to agreements on because we have debated and certain information was brought to our attention by other members. (though I think we will always be divided on economic issues hahaha). Since basically everyone of our mods are MIA, could we get Alt4 as a mod so he can activate those PG members who have earned it?

Oh well.

I'd like to recomend that the Current Event topic be on vaccines and their connection to medical disorders.
We are not adding anymore mods.
 

KrazyGlue

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
2,302
Location
Northern Virginia
I really think we should still be letting people into the Debate Hall. I think I was the last bunch to come through, or the 2nd to last, and since then, activity gradually declines. New faces promote activity because of their how excited they are to participate, and a great deal we have come to agreements on because we have debated and certain information was brought to our attention by other members. (though I think we will always be divided on economic issues hahaha). Since basically everyone of our mods are MIA, could we get Alt4 as a mod so he can activate those PG members who have earned it?

Oh well.

I'd like to recomend that the Current Event topic be on vaccines and their connection to medical disorders.
Yeah, sorry I've been late on my current event. My schoolwork suddenly spiked and I haven't had time for it. It would be nice if someone else would help run it so we could switch off on weeks.
 

CRASHiC

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Haiti Gonna Hait
"Then again, John McCain also was light-skinned and didn't speak with a Negro dialect, so maybe there's some X factor Harry Reid is missing."
http://www.theonion.com/content/amv...lly?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I don't think you should ban all federal workers from the stock market, but at a certain level there clearly is a conflict of interest from anyone with any power. If you take out every federal worker, you take out janitors and a slew of middle class average jobs who just happen to be employed by the federal government. These people have no conflict on interest and no harm comes from them trading in the stock market. Those in any sort of executive or decision making placement though should not.
 

Aesir

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
4,253
Location
Cts inconsistant antagonist
Federal Worker implies politicians such as congress men, presidents, his senior staff, senators, basically anyone who is elected who can effect policy shouldn't be allowed to have money in the stock market.

and while we're at it, corporations shouldn't be allowed to donate to campaigns.
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Chicago, IL
How exactly is the question irrelevant? The DH has more room specific mods than the GBD, and yet the DH is dead. It seems like with four moderators, this should not happen.

I said this a while ago: "At a certain point (basically where we're at now) I feel like the blame really can't be put on the Debaters themselves anymore."

I mean what ever happened to Riddle's suggestion of having Debaters "mentor" the PG'ers? All of the Debaters who responded to it seemed to like the idea and be willing to participate, yet no mod ever commented on. With four, it seems like things like that should not have happened.

What's the point of suggesting anything if it's not even going to be looked at?
 

blazedaces

Smash Lord
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Messages
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philly, PA, aim: blazedaces, msg me and we'll play
How exactly is the question irrelevant? The DH has more room specific mods than the GBD, and yet the DH is dead. It seems like with four moderators, this should not happen.

I said this a while ago: "At a certain point (basically where we're at now) I feel like the blame really can't be put on the Debaters themselves anymore."

I mean what ever happened to Riddle's suggestion of having Debaters "mentor" the PG'ers? All of the Debaters who responded to it seemed to like the idea and be willing to participate, yet no mod ever commented on. With four, it seems like things like that should not have happened.

What's the point of suggesting anything if it's not even going to be looked at?
While I understand the frustration, I don't completely agree with your point of view. In what other forum are moderator's role to promote activity? A moderator is only there to... moderate. I feel the DH is a fairly moderated forum: there is almost no cursing, flaming, trolling, rules are followed, etc.

-blazed
 

Aesir

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While I understand the frustration, I don't completely agree with your point of view. In what other forum are moderator's role to promote activity? A moderator is only there to... moderate. I feel the DH is a fairly moderated forum: there is almost no cursing, flaming, trolling, rules are followed, etc.

-blazed
This! I'm probably one of the biggest trolls on smashboards or use to be rather, but I don't even attempt that in the DH because Ck rules with an iron fist and two it's so moderated any humor I might get out of it would be short lived, plus I don't wanna get kicked.
 

KrazyGlue

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
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Location
Northern Virginia
Eh... this is the wrong place to discuss moderators; such discussions belong in forum disputes. Guys, I really don't want the social thread to be closed. Let's get back to the main purpose of this thread.

--------------

On that note, Google may have to shut down operations in China due to overly-strict censorship policies! Google had been criticized in 2006 for complying with China's censorship standards. They are considering going uncensored, but such a move would put them at risk of China eliminating the service. What should Google do in this situation?
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

Smash Legend
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Chicago, IL
Eh... this is the wrong place to discuss moderators; such discussions belong in forum disputes. Guys, I really don't want the social thread to be closed. Let's get back to the main purpose of this thread.
This isn't really serious enough for Forum Disputes. I wanted to see what other people thought, not attempt to get someone demodded or complain to the admins.

If a mod tells me to shut up and get back on topic, that's fine, but I'd like my question answered.

@Blazed: I don't really know of any other rooms that are as dead as the DH. Other moderators have no need to promote activity, because there already is activity.

Also, I agree that this is a well-moderated forum. There's no need for heavy moderation because people rarely cross the line into infraction-worthy territory. But then again, if we don't need a lot of moderation, why are there four people who's job it is to moderate?
 

blazedaces

Smash Lord
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philly, PA, aim: blazedaces, msg me and we'll play
On that note, Google may have to shut down operations in China due to overly-strict censorship policies! Google had been criticized in 2006 for complying with China's censorship standards. They are considering going uncensored, but such a move would put them at risk of China eliminating the service. What should Google do in this situation?
In the article it mentions that basically Google was hacked to discover information about human-rights activists in China and other nations, which either they are assuming lead back to chinese government or they traced it there. Kind of frustrates me to think the government thinks their ends justify any means whatsoever.

On one hand I think that Google (and Yahoo) should take a stand against Chinese policy and remove their business.

On the other hand I feel there are plenty of people in China (since it's still the most populated nation in the world) who do not agree with Chinese policy, and why shouldn't they receive at least some of the benefits these businesses have to offer just because of their government?

What do you guys think? And yes, at the moment I'm ignoring the fact that to remove their business from China amounts to hundreds of millions of dollars in loss of revenue...

-blazed

Edit: @Vrael: I'm just going to have to agree with KrazyGlue. I really, really don't mind discussing the topic further with you, so if you want, start a thread or bring up the subject in the appropriate section (Forum Discussion or whatever) and provide a link, and I'll be happy to continue it there...
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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On the other hand I feel there are plenty of people in China (since it's still the most populated nation in the world) who do not agree with Chinese policy, and why shouldn't they receive at least some of the benefits these businesses have to offer just because of their government?

-blazed
I definitely agree with you, especially this paragraph. There are over a billion people living in China, and for all of those people to not be able to use Google because of the government's policies seems a bit harsh.

Edit: @Vrael: I'm just going to have to agree with KrazyGlue. I really, really don't mind discussing the topic further with you, so if you want, start a thread or bring up the subject in the appropriate section (Forum Discussion or whatever) and provide a link, and I'll be happy to continue it there...
Forum Disputes is Admins and SMods (?) only. Plus the person who brought up the thread, of course. There isn't really a "best" place to bring up the subject =/
 

KrazyGlue

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Northern Virginia
In the article it mentions that basically Google was hacked to discover information about human-rights activists in China and other nations, which either they are assuming lead back to chinese government or they traced it there. Kind of frustrates me to think the government thinks their ends justify any means whatsoever.

On one hand I think that Google (and Yahoo) should take a stand against Chinese policy and remove their business.

On the other hand I feel there are plenty of people in China (since it's still the most populated nation in the world) who do not agree with Chinese policy, and why shouldn't they receive at least some of the benefits these businesses have to offer just because of their government?

What do you guys think? And yes, at the moment I'm ignoring the fact that to remove their business from China amounts to hundreds of millions of dollars in loss of revenue...
Well, I think it would mainly be the other services (i.e. gmail) that people would miss most. China already has a major search engine of their own, albeit highly censored. According to a student from China who recently spoke at my school, google works fine unless a search would yield a link deemed "harmful" to the Chinese government, in which case you are simply told the network connection could not be made. A few minutes later, you can do a successful search and the "harmful" link(s) will be gone. This also happens with online news sources, such as BBC.

I'm thinking Google might be able to take the risk. According to the speaker, the government had planned to close wikipedia as well, but when word spread around, the plan was met with such opposition that the government had to back off. It should be interesting to see what happens next.

Forum Disputes is Admins and SMods (?) only. Plus the person who brought up the thread, of course. There isn't really a "best" place to bring up the subject =/
PMs or VMs then.
 

blazedaces

Smash Lord
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philly, PA, aim: blazedaces, msg me and we'll play
Well, I think it would mainly be the other services (i.e. gmail) that people would miss most. China already has a major search engine of their own, albeit highly censored. According to a student from China who recently spoke at my school, google works fine unless a search would yield a link deemed "harmful" to the Chinese government, in which case you are simply told the network connection could not be made. A few minutes later, you can do a successful search and the "harmful" link(s) will be gone. This also happens with online news sources, such as BBC.
As is the case whenever government/business attempts to censor or remove some existent technology only one thing comes to mind: what's the current workaround, and how long before it's so commonplace almost everyone with any computer skills is completely bypassing any obstacles...

Sorry but I don't believe there's no way around this... if it doesn't exist yet (which I would be willing to be a lot of money it does) it's only a matter of time before it consumes...

I'm thinking Google might be able to take the risk. According to the speaker, the government had planned to close wikipedia as well, but when word spread around, the plan was met with such opposition that the government had to back off. It should be interesting to see what happens next.
Agreed. It's interesting that simply because of opposition, the government caved. But as I mentioned above, it could be that they realized if so many opposed the idea, it would fail miserably...

-blazed
 

Aesir

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Cts inconsistant antagonist
Since succumbio actually took my request seriously, what do you guys think of having the PGer's challenge us to one on one debates in area's we're knowledgeable of? A sort of way to gauge their skill. Where the whole goal is to see how they stack up basically grading them on the coherency of their argument. If they can show coherency we vouch for him ect...

Thoughts? I realize this is what the PG basically is, but it sort of gives pger's a path to progression and they can actually pointers and what not. Besides the PG has always been a work in progress anyway, so I think any new idea would be welcomed at this point.
 

Reaver197

Smash Lord
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Sep 30, 2006
Messages
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Just out of curiosity, how many people have gotten into the DH since the PG opened up?
 

blazedaces

Smash Lord
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philly, PA, aim: blazedaces, msg me and we'll play
Since succumbio actually took my request seriously, what do you guys think of having the PGer's challenge us to one on one debates in area's we're knowledgeable of? A sort of way to gauge their skill. Where the whole goal is to see how they stack up basically grading them on the coherency of their argument. If they can show coherency we vouch for him ect...

Thoughts? I realize this is what the PG basically is, but it sort of gives pger's a path to progression and they can actually pointers and what not. Besides the PG has always been a work in progress anyway, so I think any new idea would be welcomed at this point.
Sounds like a good idea to me...

-blazed
 

Reaver197

Smash Lord
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Messages
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I had a count of PGers let in as far as visible results go.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=245215

Anything before this, you'll have to ask CK.

Hoping this helps...
Wow, that thread derailed so fast, ha ha.

Hrmm, I'm not sure that this current set-up with the DH and PG really helps there be anymore activity or meaningful debates. In a way, I think trying to make the DH so exclusive is ultimately strangling it.
 

KrazyGlue

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
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Location
Northern Virginia
Since succumbio actually took my request seriously, what do you guys think of having the PGer's challenge us to one on one debates in area's we're knowledgeable of? A sort of way to gauge their skill. Where the whole goal is to see how they stack up basically grading them on the coherency of their argument. If they can show coherency we vouch for him ect...

Thoughts? I realize this is what the PG basically is, but it sort of gives pger's a path to progression and they can actually pointers and what not. Besides the PG has always been a work in progress anyway, so I think any new idea would be welcomed at this point.
It's an interesting idea; I don't see why not. It would be interesting to have this kind of thing in a mentoring thread where you could give them advice if they didn't do so well. It's kind of like a combination of this idea and Riddle's idea.

Hrmm, I'm not sure that this current set-up with the DH and PG really helps there be anymore activity or meaningful debates. In a way, I think trying to make the DH so exclusive is ultimately strangling it.
Yeah but without the proving grounds, the DH will become spammy and it's really annoying to have that happen to the one room where you don't have to wade through pages of one-liners and "10chars".
 

Reaver197

Smash Lord
Joined
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Well, I think it would make more sense, and have more activity, if we just simply have one debate hall, and just allow people to apply for being able to post in the debate hall, not unlike the system they had before. Technically, anybody can get in. They then post stuff or make a thread to show their qualifications to stay or not.

I understand on the one hand, you don't just want anyone and everyone being able to say whatever, however, in the debate hall, yet, at the same time, you need to be open to people in order to allow activity and discussions/debates to take place. Maybe, not all the debates will be to the highest levels of intellectual inquiry, but, even then, they could be used to hopefully impart good, critical thinking skills to people.
 

KrazyGlue

Smash Champion
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Well, I think it would make more sense, and have more activity, if we just simply have one debate hall, and just allow people to apply for being able to post in the debate hall, not unlike the system they had before. Technically, anybody can get in. They then post stuff or make a thread to show their qualifications to stay or not.

I understand on the one hand, you don't just want anyone and everyone being able to say whatever, however, in the debate hall, yet, at the same time, you need to be open to people in order to allow activity and discussions/debates to take place. Maybe, not all the debates will be to the highest levels of intellectual inquiry, but, even then, they could be used to hopefully impart good, critical thinking skills to people.
Yeah, I've been pondering such an alternate system myself. However, I think it would be better just to accept more PGers in general. You know, the ones that have at least some level of competence, good posting quality, and who are willing to learn.

The problem with just letting anyone in the DH is that plenty of people will just "do it for the title". And there's plenty of people who will do well for a while then just stop after they realize there's nothing to strive for except having a good ol' debate.
 

RDK

Smash Hero
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Jan 3, 2006
Messages
6,390
Krazyglue, I see you in the MK ban thread lol.

Your posts are good; we've taught you well.
 

CRASHiC

Smash Hero
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RDK, I see you in the debate hall thread, doing an absolutely horrible job constantly posting things that DON'T EVEN RELATE TO WHAT THE PERSON SAID in an attempt to derail the argument to discuss only the things that YOU want to discuss in regards to the Metaknight ban.

Key example:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9381013&postcount=327

I post an explanation for bringing up Akuma in HDR, and you start talking about something that DOESN'T EVEN RELATE TO THE POINTS I BROUGHT UP.

This isn't about your stance, but the horrible debating skills you have showcased in that thread.
 

RDK

Smash Hero
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Messages
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RDK, I see you in the debate hall thread, doing an absolutely horrible job constantly posting things that DON'T EVEN RELATE TO WHAT THE PERSON SAID in an attempt to derail the argument to discuss only the things that YOU want to discuss in regards to the Metaknight ban.

Key example:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9381013&postcount=327

I post an explanation for bringing up Akuma in HDR, and you start talking about something that DOESN'T EVEN RELATE TO THE POINTS I BROUGHT UP.

This isn't about your stance, but the horrible debating skills you have showcased in that thread.
The problem was your post had nothing to do with the topic at hand either. We're talking about Brawl, not SF, or MvC2, or any other fighting game. That was just my sad attempt at salvaging something remotely relevant out of your post.

Which is hilarious really because every time we refer to some other fighting game in that topic, pro-ban cries their eyes out about how Brawl is completely different than [insert game here] and it needs its own criteria.

And you have the gall to bring up SF? Get outta here. Pro-ban is a joke.
 

RDK

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Okay, I think I see what happened here. Here's the original post I responded to:

RDK, the point of bringing up Akuma in HDR is to show those who think that we should look to past examples of when the ban things that in similar situations a banning was used, its not presenting Akuma HD as a way to argue that he should be banned but is using in in contradiction to the argument that other communities don't do this. It was originally posted by the peach player in the BR Parxis? in response to many people using Akuma as reference to a character that should be banned and to those who complained that we shouldn't ban Metaknight because of 'ban standards' as set but other games.
Notice this:

It was originally posted by the peach player in the BR Parxis? in response to many people using Akuma as reference to a character that should be banned and to those who complained that we shouldn't ban Metaknight because of 'ban standards' as set but other games.
It sounds like you're saying something about using the amount of people who use MK as an argument for banning him, which is indeed ludicrous, but after looking at it I really don't know what you're saying here. It was more a miscommunication than me derailing the topic. You have several spelling errors and a "Praxis?" smack dab in the middle of a sentence.

Then you proceeded to curse me out.


I didn't even ****ing say that and am done arguing with you over this, good ****ing day **** **** *******. Get ****ed in the head ***** *****.
I'm the one with poor debate skills?
 

CRASHiC

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I said Praxix? because I was unsure of the player's name as it is a Peach player and who follows Peach in Brawl?

Also, how does it even sound like I'm talking about popularity? In the context in which the post was made, you asked why Pro-Ban even brought up HD Akuma if they think we shouldn't live by other community standards, and I explained why HD Akuma was originally brought up by that said member of the BR who plays Peach.

I proceeded to cuss you out with good reason, because you continue to derail and ignore anything in that thread that exist outside of your own criteria for bans, and both sides Proban and Anti-ban have called you out on this behavior and yet you still continue, regardless of not having any stake or investment within the Metaknight discussion and are simply acting arrogant and self empowered and using it as a way to show yourself as 'higher' than Brawl players.
 

RDK

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I said Praxix? because I was unsure of the player's name as it is a Peach player and who follows Peach in Brawl?

Also, how does it even sound like I'm talking about popularity? In the context in which the post was made, you asked why Pro-Ban even brought up HD Akuma if they think we shouldn't live by other community standards, and I explained why HD Akuma was originally brought up by that said member of the BR who plays Peach.

I proceeded to cuss you out with good reason, because you continue to derail and ignore anything in that thread that exist outside of your own criteria for bans, and both sides Proban and Anti-ban have called you out on this behavior and yet you still continue, regardless of not having any stake or investment within the Metaknight discussion and are simply acting arrogant and self empowered and using it as a way to show yourself as 'higher' than Brawl players.
Let me ask you something Crashic, how many MK ban threads have you been present for?
 

RDK

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I don't think I'm "higher" than Brawl players. What I do think is that the majority of people who post in Brawl forums and attend Brawl tournaments don't know as much as they think they know. That thread is a prime example. People constantly challenge well-known facts and principles, and when they are corrected on it they either ignore it altogether or disappear and let other people take their place. The same arguments have been repeated ad nauseum since this entire affair has started. If people would only educate themselves we wouldn't even be having this discussion, but it's quite obvious that the majority of people on the pro-ban side are just trolls, or are pig-headed, stubborn, and ignorant of the way competitive games work.

Which is why I mainly like to just **** around with people in these types of discussions. Fight fire with fire!
 

Eor

Banned via Warnings
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I don't think I'm "higher" than Brawl players. What I do think is that the majority of people who post in Brawl forums and attend Brawl tournaments don't know as much as they think they know. That thread is a prime example. People constantly challenge well-known facts and principles, and when they are corrected on it they either ignore it altogether or disappear and let other people take their place. The same arguments have been repeated ad nauseum since this entire affair has started. If people would only educate themselves we wouldn't even be having this discussion, but it's quite obvious that the majority of people on the pro-ban side are just trolls, or are pig-headed, stubborn, and ignorant of the way competitive games work.

Which is why I mainly like to just **** around with people in these types of discussions. Fight fire with fire!
Have you done well in any tournament you've been to?
 
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