Data The Dark Arts of Ganon (Match-Up Discussion)

[Blobface]

Just a side note, but I'd recommend default Wizkick for DK. He has nasty juggles, and dropkick is surprisingly unhelpful against storm punch. In fact, you can outright insta-die if you dropkick at the same time he storm punches, since you build insane vertical velocity and fly into they blastzone.

 

[Xinc]

I've played a few Diddy's online and this is my feedback.

Diddy's agile, but his flaws like in recovery, which is good for Ganon. Monkey Flip is somewhat predictable and has limited range. A well timed Nair will swat Diddy away. If he tries to recover from down under, tip man ought to do it.

On the ground, try your best to remain grounded. A large portion of ground moves outrange his. Stay close, but respect Diddy's aerials and monkey flip range. Down Tilt is great for spacing, as well as forward tilt/pivot forward tilt. If he's in the air, a well timed forward air can also hit Diddy's fair.

Flame Choke is a great way to ground Diddy when he's grounded or if you get it on him aerial-wise. Down Tilt out of choke can net a kill at later percents.

 

[Abbey Street]

I've noticed that Ganon's dash attack allows him to ignore Diddy's bananas if they're on the ground, much like his Wizkick. As in they don't interact at all unless Ganon's DA finishes right on top of it.

Still checking interactions with thrown bananas, and it looks like (as with many weak projectiles) both moves beat thrown bananas when timed properly. Will continue experimenting tonight.

EDIT: It looks like Ganon can also catch a thrown banana during his dash attack so that's something to consider as well.

 

[Xinc]

I've noticed that Ganon's dash attack allows him to ignore Diddy's bananas if they're on the ground, much like his Wizkick. As in they don't interact at all unless Ganon's DA finishes right on top of it.

Still checking interactions with thrown bananas, and it looks like (as with many weak projectiles) both moves beat thrown bananas when timed properly. Will continue experimenting tonight.

EDIT: It looks like Ganon can also catch a thrown banana during his dash attack so that's something to consider as well.

So in other words, it appears Ganondorf will be using dash attack far more in this matchup.

 

[Opana]

When I went to bair spike a Diddy out of barrels he slide up the stage instead of spiking, I guess due to his unique barrel break animation or something. This was a bit ago on the ds. Around that time I also realized Dair is pretty much an instant kill, that unique animation doesn't let him act right away and knockback seems amplified a bit.

Anyway I'd put it 60:40 Diddy as most of his specials and kill moves have enough lag to be punishable from my experience. Diddy can camp us but both it's not as effective as others we're used to dealing with and his Banana can be deadly in either players hands. Diddy has a good neutral otherwise with proper spacing and decisions which is bad for us but as I said he has enough openings to be hit. Hoo hah is still good but it won't be bumping this up to 65:35 like I'd have put it before, it doesn't kill as well and we do have an anti juggle tool in wizkick used sparingly. If they read di wrong and uair sometimes I can hit with an uair semi spike and actually suggest this in juggle scenarios here and their. It takes some practice but both recoverys are punishable, especially monkey flip so keep hat in mind. Diddy has a good offstage game but varying recovery at high and low heights helps alleviate our issues a lot through my exp. Then of course flame choke is always nice and forces a tech or eat a dtilt, and if they tech that can lead to a better option like fsmash or dair.

 

[Xinc]

I'm pretty sure I don't need to bump this since this is stickied, but is there any more feedback? This is pretty little. I've requested assistance from the Diddy Kong boards. (Is everyone doing their finals now?)

@ Vermanubis @Ray_Kalm @JmacAttack @ HeavyLobster got anything?

 

[HeavyLobster]

Don't have much to offer, as I haven't really played many good Diddys. Really just don't get grabbed and try to read their Monkey Flip habits. Choke -> Ftilt is really nice for putting them in a bad position if they don't tech. Other than that it's just generic Ganon stuff like being patient and waiting for punish opportunities.

 

[CELTiiC]

Hey guys! DK boards are currently discussing the DK vs Ganon matchup and would love to get some input from some Ganon mains on how the matchup plays out with or without customs.

http://smashboards.com/threads/monk...atchup-thread-wave-2-falcon-charizard.396228/

 

[Xinc]

Hey guys! DK boards are currently discussing the DK vs Ganon matchup and would love to get some input from some Ganon mains on how the matchup plays out with or without customs.

http://smashboards.com/threads/monk...atchup-thread-wave-2-falcon-charizard.396228/

Very interesting. We just covered DK last matchup! Our writeup is on both page 1 (post 1) and page 12.

 

[WispBae]

...oh god it's creepy in here... turn on some lights, please guys...

...anyways...

The Doggy Boards are talking about this MU, and would appreciate your input!

Click this picture of Ganon pretending to be plane to go straight to the thread!

 

[Shmeckie]

I gotta say, fellahs, since Diddy got hit with the nerf bat I think we're actually in a pretty good way with this MU, now. A lot of Diddy's cheaper aerial shenanigans are gone, and overall he can't stay on top of us and stuff out our approaches the way he used to. Flame Choke is exceptionally effective whenever you have an opening, especially if he doesn't tech it, since that means we have a guaranteed f-tilt or d-tilt. As was mentioned earlier, dash attack gets a lot of mileage in this matchup as it stuffs a lot of Diddy's attempts at capturing momentum. Also it's great for saying no to banana peels. Furthermore, u-smash is really effective in this matchup, as it stops most of his approach options cold (beats the monkey flip clean). Also it can be used as effective bait due to how soon it can be cancelled out of.

Diddy's still an opponent to respect, but this isn't the Diddy of old. Patience and proper spacing can keep this monkey off our backs. And seriously, do not underestimate how good well-spaced u-smashes are in this MU.

 

[_Magus_]

One thing I'd add now that customs are legal is this: WDK provides us with a solid down throw followup. D throw to WDK is one of Ganon's only True Combos. I've compiled the characters and percents it works on in my (still incomplete ) guide to grabs and followups:

Spoiler

Wizard's Drop Kick

Works on: The entire roster. Yes, even floaties. The angle of WDK is perfect for comboing out of down throw.

True? Yes (on more than half the roster :D)

Summary:
As I said before, WDK's angle is perfect for comboing out of d throw, and also the low ending lag of it allows for us to punish our opponent's response afterward. (Note that some fast fallers may not be hit by WDK out of D throw at super low percents. It works on them later.) We could not ask for a more perfect move to combo out of d throw in my opinion. It also true combos on a lot of the cast, and at mid/early high percents. This is yet another reason to pray customs are tournament legal, bc WDK greatly increases the prowess of our throw game.

True Combo Percents:
: 36-49%

: 26-41%

: 45-53%

: 18-41%

: 38-71%

:10-42%

: 43-66%

: 59-71%

: 27-46%

: 26-64%

: 35-47%

: 47-50%

: 21-63%

: 28-69%

: 30-39%

: 27-68%

: 46-71%

: 28-64%

: 17-40%

: 72-85%

: 18-65%

: 18-64%

: 24-63%

: 23-65%

: 18-57%

: 45-70

: 3-27%

: 29-59%

: 31-70%

: 54-57%

: 27-44%

: 45-72%

: 19-49%

: 19-39%

: 36-49%

: 28-68

: 27-67

: 37-56%

: 28-62%

: 45-83%

: 35-56%

The reason this is so much better than d throw to Wizkick is twofold: firstly, wizkick has so much ending lag that it's very easy for the opponent to punish us after the wizkick. Secondly, the angle of WDK makes it a combo (and a true combo) for much longer than Dthrow > Wizkick. It's a reliable combo and I think it's a solid option.

 

[Xinc]

One thing I'd add now that customs are legal is this: WDK provides us with a solid down throw followup. D throw to WDK is one of Ganon's only True Combos. I've compiled the characters and percents it works on in my (still incomplete ) guide to grabs and followups:

Spoiler

Wizard's Drop Kick

Works on: The entire roster. Yes, even floaties. The angle of WDK is perfect for comboing out of down throw.

True? Yes (on more than half the roster :D)

Summary:
As I said before, WDK's angle is perfect for comboing out of d throw, and also the low ending lag of it allows for us to punish our opponent's response afterward. (Note that some fast fallers may not be hit by WDK out of D throw at super low percents. It works on them later.) We could not ask for a more perfect move to combo out of d throw in my opinion. It also true combos on a lot of the cast, and at mid/early high percents. This is yet another reason to pray customs are tournament legal, bc WDK greatly increases the prowess of our throw game.

True Combo Percents:
: 36-49%

: 26-41%

: 45-53%

: 18-41%

: 38-71%

:10-42%

: 43-66%

: 59-71%

: 27-46%

: 26-64%

: 35-47%

: 47-50%

: 21-63%

: 28-69%

: 30-39%

: 27-68%

: 46-71%

: 28-64%

: 17-40%

: 72-85%

: 18-65%

: 18-64%

: 24-63%

: 23-65%

: 18-57%

: 45-70

: 3-27%

: 29-59%

: 31-70%

: 54-57%

: 27-44%

: 45-72%

: 19-49%

: 19-39%

: 36-49%

: 28-68

: 27-67

: 37-56%

: 28-62%

: 45-83%

: 35-56%

The reason this is so much better than d throw to Wizkick is twofold: firstly, wizkick has so much ending lag that it's very easy for the opponent to punish us after the wizkick. Secondly, the angle of WDK makes it a combo (and a true combo) for much longer than Dthrow > Wizkick. It's a reliable combo and I think it's a solid option.

Interesting. Thanks for putting this here. I think it would be prudent to also post this in the ATs section and they'd benefit pretty well.

This is relevant to our current discussion as Diddy doesn't have the best recovery game and WDK can swat him off. If Ganon is able to ledge cancel, he can follow up with up air or forward air and make recovering difficult. Regular WizKick is alright but it's more difficult to follow up and up air is the only move possible, or neutral air.

 

[_Magus_]

Interesting. Thanks for putting this here. I think it would be prudent to also post this in the ATs section and they'd benefit pretty well.

This is relevant to our current discussion as Diddy doesn't have the best recovery game and WDK can swat him off. If Ganon is able to ledge cancel, he can follow up with up air or forward air and make recovering difficult. Regular WizKick is alright but it's more difficult to follow up and up air is the only move possible, or neutral air.

Gotcha. Will do.

 

[Dr. Bread]

diddy basically feels like a bad character + a banana at the moment.

if you hit the banana or land the command grab, you will pretty much be fine, and despite ganondorf's weight and size, up-air no longer has enough hitstun in order to string together in the slightest.

diddy's grab is also laggier now, which makes a world of difference for laggier characters like ganon.

on the other hand, if diddy triest to set up a smash attack with banana, it will be easier against large characters, so ganon suffers there.

 

[Xinc]

OK, should be done with Diddy in a day or two.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

diddy basically feels like a bad character + a banana at the moment.

if you hit the banana or land the command grab, you will pretty much be fine, and despite ganondorf's weight and size, up-air no longer has enough hitstun in order to string together in the slightest.

diddy's grab is also laggier now, which makes a world of difference for laggier characters like ganon.

on the other hand, if diddy triest to set up a smash attack with banana, it will be easier against large characters, so ganon suffers there.

The fact that so many people think he's a bad character because his hoohah doesn't kill at 70% is insane to me.

 

[Dr. Bread]

The fact that so many people think he's a bad character because his hoohah doesn't kill at 70% is insane to me.

cool now it kills at 150%... except its not a combo by then.
also you can't string uairs together at all anymore, di or no...
but im not going to discuss why when a character gets more nerfs than any character in smash 4, it does, in fact reduce their viability.

 

[Xinc]

cool now it kills at 150%... except its not a combo by then.
also you can't string uairs together at all anymore, di or no...
but im not going to discuss why when a character gets more nerfs than any character in smash 4, it does, in fact reduce their viability.

I'm not going to say he's still really good, but he's still good. His aerial mobility is still phenomenal and you can't afford to sleep on him.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Ganondorfs out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Ganondorf. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Ganondorf match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/409124/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Since 1.0.8, I've found the Marth match-up to be ridiculously unfavorable. Especially if the Marth is patient and refuses to approach or commit. I recently ran into a pretty notable Marth from Smashboards on For Glory and beat him pretty handily because he was flashy and approached. Then, like two games later, I ran into another random Marth who was absolutely awful to play against, haha. It almost went to time-out every game, because he never approached, and it felt like I had zero options to get close to him. The only games I won were the result of insanely hard reads and a lot of good fortune. The rest were lost to long wars of attrition and the inability to get any hits in the neutral.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Marth probably wins slightly against Ganon as of the patch changes as his Jab buff does help him a lot defensively against Ganon. However he still has to respect Ganon's superior range and juggle options, and Ganon still also has the ability to reverse tipman U-air Marth out of his Up-B for fairly consistent gimps.

 

[Vermanubis]

Since 1.0.8, I've found the Marth match-up to be ridiculously unfavorable. Especially if the Marth is patient and refuses to approach or commit. I recently ran into a pretty notable Marth from Smashboards on For Glory and beat him pretty handily because he was flashy and approached. Then, like two games later, I ran into another random Marth who was absolutely awful to play against, haha. It almost went to time-out every game, because he never approached, and it felt like I had zero options to get close to him. The only games I won were the result of insanely hard reads and a lot of good fortune. The rest were lost to long wars of attrition and the inability to get any hits in the neutral.

That's truthfully the kind of player I most like going against, since I feel most... "honest." But I know exactly what you're talking about, and for a respectable portion of the cast, if someone so chooses to not approach, that's when Ganon's power starts to mean frustratingly little. It's particularly bad against characters against whom we have no guaranteed choke follow-ups, have long tech rolls, or high mobility, e.g. Falcon, ZSS, Ike, Sheik, Marth, Lucina, Zelda, Rosa, etc.

The most outstanding example of all of this was a ZSS I fought a long time ago. Never approached, never spotdodged, teched every choke, etc.

 

[Xinc]

I have good news. Diddy should be ready tomorrow (no joke).

I don't think the marth matchup is very unfavorable. It is a bit, as long as Marth doesn't recklessly come in and attack you with his horrible frame-data sword. He gains a lot of great tools that he can use against Ganon, but he also needs to look for an opening to strike.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I have good news. Diddy should be ready tomorrow (no joke).

I don't think the marth matchup is very unfavorable. It is a bit, as long as Marth doesn't recklessly come in and attack you with his horrible frame-data sword. He gains a lot of great tools that he can use against Ganon, but he also needs to look for an opening to strike.

I don't think he really does need to look for an opening, though. If he just waits for the opening to come to him, he can beat almost any option Ganon throws out with his sword. It's one of those rare stalemates I feel Ganon is disadvantaged in for not being able to go even with trades, because of disjoints. Sort of like King Dadledingo, but a lot quicker and with fewer followups.

 

[Xinc]

Here it is. I'm open to any questions

Spoiler

Character Description: Diddy Kong (ディディーコング Didī Kongu?) is a fictional character in the Donkey Kong series of video games, first appearing in the 1994 game Donkey Kong Country. He is a young spider monkey who lives on Donkey Kong Island in the Kongo Jungle, and is identified by his red cap, which has a Nintendo logo on it, and a red shirt with two stars. He is described as the "wannabe nephew" of Donkey Kong in the Donkey Kong 64 manual and occasionally as a chimpanzee, despite his monkey-like tail. He was originally created by Donkey Kong Country developer Rare as an updated version of Donkey Kong Jr., but renamed due to Nintendo's response.

Gerudo Followups (unteched): For a full chart of Gerudo follow ups for all characters, click here. Diddy can be punished with a down tilt or a side tilt. Both are extremely strong options and kill fairly early. Furthermore, it's possible to follow up a roll away (if predicted) with a Wizard's Foot or Dash attack, while it's also possible to punish a roll behind with a down air. If Diddy does a Get Up Attack or just remains still on the ground, a pivot angled down forward smash will connect as well.


How to Deal with Projectiles: Bananas give Ganondorf a fair amount of trouble. Bananas that are thrown on the ground can be grabbed and used against Diddy with a dash attack. Or kick over it with Wizkick or any of its customs. Be careful of the end lag from the dash attack though as it could lead you to punishment if unspaced properly. Avoid getting hit with a Banana, be it either shielding, dodging, dash attack, or just avoiding it. Diddy can lead to up air followups despite the nerf of his up air due to Ganon's weight. Diddy Kong's custom Up-B, as well as default, also packs a punch when he's hit out of it, so be careful when edge guarding. On the other hand, Peanut Popgun is not a big problem for us due to the slowness of the projectile.

Understanding the Matchup:

Yes, we are aware Diddy got nerfed. Ganon should still play very patiently against Diddy Kong. Diddy Kong still has a wide range of quick aerial moves with good mobility, despite having his range nerfed.

Diddy armed with a banana to hit at you is very dangerous since it can lead to grab combos, so please be careful to not get hit by his bananas. It's important to bait Diddy to throw away the bananas you can be aware of where to avoid it.

Flame choke is the best move to use on Diddy, since it resets Diddy's momentum and can net you followups. If unteched, Ganon will be able to followup with a down tilt or forward tilt, both which can kill Diddy if he fails to tech it. Near the edge, it is better to use forward tilt due to Diddy's weaker recovery and net kills fairly early, meanwhile Diddy may have to be around 115% in order to die from a down tilt.

Dash Attack is by far the best move to use in this matchup. This does not mean you should be reckless with it as it has punishable lag and is punishable on shield. Dash Attack's utilities in this matchup is 1. the burst of speed from the attack, which could mess up momentum for Diddy, 2. it catches bananas in on the ground and you can use it yourself, and 3. the weaker hitbox, if it hits Diddy, can connect to an up air. At lower percents, the strong hit of dash attack can lead to a grab, while the weak hit will do the same starting roughly 15%. At roughly mid-20s, the strong hit will lead to short hop up air, while mid-thirties up to app. 45% can have a full hop up air to connect. However, the weak hit will still connect with an up air until even 90% (and even an up smash at that percent given DI). Near the edge, up air can kill Diddy at that percent.

Up Smash is a great move in this matchup as well. Outside of Monkey Flip, the large range of Ganon's up smash stops a lot of Diddy Kong's approaches. In addition, the IASA frames can trick opponents to thinking they're safe when they are actually not.

As far as aerials go, Diddy's aerial game far out-mobilizes Ganon's. However, Ganon does have up air to clip Diddy on the off chance he goes too far high up. Additionally, Ganon has neutral air, which out-spaces Diddy's aerials, despite having a higher end lag. Ganon should make sure Diddy is never below him, in which Diddy will be able to juggle Ganon with his aerials. If in that situation, do not panic. Remember that although punishable, Wizard's Foot can net you a surprise KO, or at the very least, send Diddy away from you. Do not air dodge recklessly, nor waste your second jump.

Grabs: Down throw is your best combo move. It can lead to Dash Attack, Wizard's Foot, and up air at lower percents, while Down throw will true combo to Wizard's Dropkick (WDK) from 43-66%. Forward throw racks up damage and resets the situation. It can also be used to send Diddy off-stage, allowing us to edge guard. Back throw is a similar situation, but deals less damage than forward throw. Lastly, up throw doesn't have much viable usage here other than sending Diddy Kong up in the air. The lack of hitstun from the move as well as the distance Diddy is sent makes it difficult to followup.

Edgeguarding: Diddy Kong is not known for having a good recovery. Ganon's aerials are perfect for intercepting recoveries (every single one). RAR back air can be used to attack Diddy's that try to recover high, while down air can be used to intercept Diddy's recovering from under (but that can lead to getting hit to the barrel). Neutral air swats Diddy away and is a generally safer option compared to the rest of the aerials, but allows Ganon to safely recover back on stage, despite whether Diddy uses Monkey Flip or barrel. RAR up air/ ledge jump up air follows the same principle of RAR back air, intercepting Diddy's that try to recover from above. Falling up air off the stage clips Diddy's trying to sweetspot the stage with Monkey Flip or barrel. Lastly, forward air clashes with Monkey Flip and can swat Diddy away. If you're mid-stage and find Diddy off-stage, Wizard's Foot can boost you near the ledge. If you sweetspot the ledge, you can use any of these aerial moves to send Diddy away.

Customs to consider:

Warlock Blade: This move is slightly weaker than default Warlock Punch but has a large hitbox that rewards Ganondorf if he hits at the tip of the blade. It also has shield break properties and super armor. This move is great for stage control and, though punishable, good for interrupting approaches and momentum. Due to the slowness of all variants of Warlock Punch, neutral special isn't often used in this matchup.

Dark Fists: This move has super armor at the start and the first hit will link to the second, which is a killing blow. This can punish attempted edge guards, and has giant knock back. Also a potent OoS option. It can kill as low as 40% and delivers another potent move to Ganondorf's killing options. If launched in the air, Diddy can die at a ridiculously early percent.

Wizard's DropKick: First things first, it mitigates Ganondorf's below average recovery. Also, it's weaker than Wizkick but could also true combo Diddy at mid percents from down throw.


Stages to consider:

Battlefield/Miiverse: Though you're also victim to being juggled by aerials, Diddy's banana game is not as threatening. Also, your up airs can also juggle Diddy as well. In addition, the location of the platforms can net you a sweet spotted up smash if you are right below Diddy.

Dreamland 64: This stage is similar to Battlefield, but the ceiling is higher. This allows Ganon to live up to higher percents. Overall, Ganondorf should be focusing on killing vertically at higher percents and trying close stocks along the sides at mid high percents.


Short Summary of Matchup:

Despite Diddy's nerf, Ganon should still play very patiently against Diddy Kong. Diddy Kong still has a wide range of quick aerial moves with good mobility, despite having the weakening of his up air. Overall, Ganon outranges Diddy, being able to play the spacing game without much to worry about.

However, Diddy has access to bananas, which can lead to tripping you and a grab, which can lead to additional followups. It's important to not get hit by a banana. Luckily, all of Ganon's down B specials as well as dash attack go through the banana. Dash attack is arguably Ganon's best move in the matchup, due to the ability to followup at percents as high as 90 from a sour spot dash attack. Up Smash, dash attack, and grabs are key to this matchup.

Be sure to edge guard Diddy as well. He doesn't have a good recovery and swatting him away will very likely seal a stock.


CM Ratio of the Matchup: 45-55

Ratio of the Matchup: 45-55

Thanks to: @ A2ZOMG @ Dr. Bread @Schmeckle @ HeavyLobster @ Vermanubis @ _Magus_ @ Scarlet Jile @adom4 @ Sykkamorre @Ray_Kalm @ Opana @ Z1GMA


FOR NEXT WEEK, WE WILL BE DISCUSSING Link!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Pre-patch, we beat Link 55/45 because even though he forced Ganon to approach, his grab game was a complete joke and we bodied him in his negative state completely. We never had to take any serious risks in neutral when we could simply wait for Link to get frustrated on shield and beating him with superior pokes and midrange tools, which converted to juggles and edgeguards that Link really couldn't deal with.

Currently I believe Link wins 55/45. Not a seriously terrible matchup, but his grab range and D-throw being improved significantly now means Ganon has to be way more proactive to beat Link, and mistakes against Link get punished pretty hard. Ganon's weight is a good and bad thing against Link's D-throw, a good thing in the sense that Link doesn't have guaranteed KO confirms off D-throw on Ganon that you can't respond to by jumping and sometimes saving Wizkick, a bad thing in that his physics lend himself regardless to eating a lot of juggle strings after U-tilts, so don't be surprised if Link quickly takes you from 0-60 off a grab.

That being said, any time Ganon does get in on Link, the usual bodying him in his negative state still applies. You can effectively go ham when Link is above you or offstage. U-air destroys his negative state pretty easily.

 

[FullMoon]

Hey there practitioners of the dark arts, the Greninja boards are going to discuss the Ganondorf MU, among others, so any input would be appreciated: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...hi-roy-7-13-7-20.369356/page-23#post-19641518

We're mainly looking for info about we should deal with the King of Evil and live to tell the story, so any advice would be great

 

[Z1GMA]

45 - 55

Link's buffs are real, but it's still a pretty even MU.

 

[Vermanubis]

I'm not convicted yet of any particular ratio, but a fun thing to watch out for is that at higher percents on flat stages, Link can charge his arrow such that Ganon has literally no way in outside of hard-reading a powershield.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm not convicted yet of any particular ratio, but a fun thing to watch out for is that at higher percents on flat stages, Link can charge his arrow such that Ganon has literally no way in outside of hard-reading a powershield.

Would rather play Link on FD opposed to BF by far. BF gives him too many landing options, and if he's any good, platforms actually make it harder to approach him from the air. He can control platforms with his projectiles, and camp under them with his U-tilt and U-smash making it more obvious that you have to approach from the ground to get in.

 

[Vermanubis]

Would rather play Link on FD opposed to BF by far. BF gives him too many landing options, and if he's any good, platforms actually make it harder to approach him from the air. He can control platforms with his projectiles, and camp under them with his U-tilt and U-smash making it more obvious that you have to approach from the ground to get in.

Not entirely in disagreement there. Just mentioning that, at high percents mostly, Link, if the player's feeling sufficiently disrespectful, can camp on the opposite edge and make it obscenely tough to get close. Below percents where his arrows don't send you flying back, it's not a thing.

Smashville's my pick against Link.

 

[Rizen]

I've only played vs Ganon (or vs Link) on wifi and can't directly comment on the MU :/. In general BF is a good stage for Link. If you want a smaller stage go for Lylat then SV. Lylat messes with Link's grab and a few other attacks when the ship is tilted so Link's facing up hill.
If you have Delfino legal strike that. Same goes for similar large stages with platforms; Link loves those. The exception is Castle siege since the statues block Link's projectiles and the 3rd transformation sucks. IDK about 3DS stages.

 

[Abbey Street]

IDK about 3DS stages.

Like Wii U, BF is a great stage for Link to fight Ganondorf on, so you'll want to get rid of that. Once that's out of the way, I prefer going to Ferox due to the many situations in which Link's projectile spam does nothing, and if Ganon messes up he has a bunch of ways to tech Link's stronger attacks. Although if Link takes you to FD, it's not the end of the world.

When counterpicking I love Yoshi's. Small stage makes his projectile spam less effective, single tilting platform can throw him off, and the way the base and its ledges work makes Link's edgeguards and grabs more difficult, especially if you get the help of Big Randy.
I usually ban Prism Tower against Link due to many of the same problems as BF reappearing in this stage. In addition, one part of the map is like T&C with a much smaller base platform, and another part of the map is a walkoff. Both work heavily against Ganon in this matchup.
Brinstar is...weird. The stage transitions between alright for Link and good for Ganon depending on where the acid is. If you can keep Link away from the platforms when the acid is up, it will help tremendously. Ganondorf's edgeguarding is also pretty darn good here as well.

 

[Sykkamorre]

If the link is patient enough to wait for your attack, all of his tilts go through ours.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

If the link is patient enough to wait for your attack, all of his tilts go through ours.

However, all of Link's sword attacks are punishable on shield. Generally, we don't try to charge in though unless you're up against a suicidal Link. We'll throw a few bombs and boomerang till we can get an opening and then go in for a couple hits. Our melee attacks lack the necessary frame data to consider anything truly safe. So closing the distance is key. I'd say try to get up in Link's face, bait him out, and punish accordingly.

Just be cautious of our improved grab. We actually kind of have one now... And it's especially effective against someone like Ganon

 

[A2ZOMG]

However, all of Link's sword attacks are punishable on shield. Generally, we don't try to charge in though unless you're up against a suicidal Link. We'll throw a few bombs and boomerang till we can get an opening and then go in for a couple hits. Our melee attacks lack the necessary frame data to consider anything truly safe. So closing the distance is key. I'd say try to get up in Link's face, bait him out, and punish accordingly.

Just be cautious of our improved grab. We actually kind of have one now... And it's especially effective against someone like Ganon

Dtilt is really safe on shield, and it combos into a lot of stuff. Just worth noting.

 

[Xinc]

Heads up since I have my thesis presentation due next week: Don't expect the writeup to be done before next Saturday. Direct any complaints, queries, or comments to my inbox. I will get to you as quickly as I can. I strongly urge for more input before then.

Thanks!

 

[Lozjam]

I believe that in light of our recent power surge, we should again revisit Link. I battled some Links today, and the MU feels far easier. Dsmash alone negates many of Links moves in close quarters, and will KO no less, due to its new uses and amazing range. Furthermore, Ganondorf's shield pressure game has increased tremendously. I think we need to continue talking about Link's MU, as more testing still needs to be done.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Was thinking the same thing with a couple Ganon friendlies I got to go up against today. He's much more of a threat after the buff. The MU's probably more even now.