The Crystal Caves - The Yoshi Social Thread

[DarkLeviathan89]

list em off and I got you

Thanks, Tombo. Let's start with Fox and Falco. Not sure what I can do to handle their pressure, and when I do get a hit, I can't capitalize properly. Also, stage counterpick suggestions would definitely help (more so for Falco).

 

[Dyl9]

Thanks, Tombo. Let's start with Fox and Falco. Not sure what I can do to handle their pressure, and when I do get a hit, I can't capitalize properly. Also, stage counterpick suggestions would definitely help (more so for Falco).

Falco is the bane of my existence. My only losses in PM Singles pools last tourney was to Falco and Armada. I dropped shield on drill shine every time because I was panicking too much because of the lazer lockdown. He also seems to break double jump amour fairly easily and can shine spike you at relatively low percent.

 

[Damp]

The falco matchup is just silly. He can just shine away our jump armor while also being able to add insane pressure and prevent eggroll wiith his lasers. The good news is if you get him offstage he's done. So yeah, get him offstage and gimp.

 

[Mumbo]

Don't use eggroll in the Falco matchup except to recover or to techchase. As it turns out, eggroll is one of the best techchases, especially against Falco because it pops him up just enough to keep him in your control. Short hop and nair around his lasers and try to get a grab. If you can grab him you can upthrow -> juggle, downthrow -> juggle, or downthrow -> downsmash to techchase or death. If getting the grab through the laser pressure is difficult, just try to get a knockdown with a dtilt or a nair.

 

[Kudrah]

Hey, guys, so I recently went to a round robin, and here's one game I had: Kudrah v Searing Sorrow (friendly)

Now, this is the game after I lost the set to Brandon (Searing Sorrow), a really good Diddy that gives me migraines. I'll link the actual set here, but I should let you know that I started off with Mewtwo for a better matchup: Kudrah v Searing Sorrow (Round Robin set)

I'm not very proud of these matches, but they were only ones were my Yoshi was on stream. Just thought I'd show you all.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Thanks, Tombo. Let's start with Fox and Falco. Not sure what I can do to handle their pressure, and when I do get a hit, I can't capitalize properly. Also, stage counterpick suggestions would definitely help (more so for Falco).

Fox n Flaco. Gotcha.

A good way to deal with pressure from both is to know what they want.

FOX:
Go for Grabs and punish him as much as possible with Bairs
After you hit 70%~ All foxes want either an Upthrow to Uair or an Upsmash. One major approach at that point is a drillshine Upsmash. Dealing with this, you dash forwards or eggroll for a split second then immediately exit. In these cases, Fox may try to drillshine or SourNair. When he jumps, dash back, and pivot grab. You'll get the grab either for free or for grab armor damage. If you get hit by drill, CC it and shield buffer. The Fox will either do what's automatic and shine to upsmash, or shine to grab or just grab. Shine to Upsmash you can shield and punish withe either a grab or an OoS Nair. If he goes for grab, It's very likely that you will Grab Parry it, free punish of your choice. If he goes for shine grab, this is when it gets tricky. you can roll right after the shine, but ONLY ROLL PAST him, not away, because if you do that guessing a grab and he wants an Upsmash, you die. Upthrow to Uair won't kill you if you mash Jump because armor is OP

Options for fighting fox, Crouch canceling will give you a huge edge. Upthrow will lead to a free uptilt until 100%~(with correct DI) and Upthrow is a chaingrab on Fox (Upthrow, Dash back, immediate pivot grab). Simple and safe thing to do is to Upsmash after an Upthrow because it's completely free until 100%~.

Edge guarding Fox:
Nair is his bane.
If he wants to phantom to stage, shorthop/DJC float Nair.
If he wants to phantom to ledge, run off Rising Nair
If he wants to Firefox to stage or ledge, Intercept with a Rising Nair.
In all of these scenarios you want to hit him with the tip of your boot because it's disjointed. (IMPORTANT KNOWLEDGE)
if Fox is over 50%~ any of these can kill.

FALCO:

Yes, Lasers suck, but the main thing you want a Falco to do is approach so you can punish. Dair on Shield to Shine is tough, but you can shield the shine and roll away or past them or OoS Nair after it hits (very little Falcos will multishine every time they Dair your shield, it's not in their muscle memory to have to do so). Falco wants to Fsmash or Dsmash you for kill or he wants to Dair you, but Armor will let you laugh at him. Alot of Falcos will Crouch before doing either of those moves because they want to CC to Cstick(or possibly shine). If you see this, you can safely eggroll at him, but either go through him and beyond or stop just short of his Fsmash range. If you pick the first option, make sure this is a medium to long range roll, because IF you choose to go through him, he may stop you with the predicted Fsmash. In this case, you'll clank and you can: Dash back and pivot grab, go for Jabs, Dtilt him away, or DJC Nair. If you want the second option, it's a free Forwardsmash, DownSmash, Grab, etc.
I'm sure you all have seen Falcos do the whole crouch stance waiting to CC and punish, so this is a great thing to take advantage of. other than eggroll, you can space a dashgrab so you catch him in his Fsmash and either get the grab for free or take damage on grab armor. You can dash forwards, wavedash back after the bait, and get a free grab or fair or Dair or anything really.

Fighting:
Eggroll is unsafe unless you roll off a platform, with this you can be creative but make sure not to be predictable. (remember the crouch stance)
Bairs are huge in this matchup as well as grabs. Downthrow to Utilt is Guaranteed at any rational percent (same with Upsmash).
Dtilt a Falco while he's off-stage and he's auto-dead.
Falco's UpB recovery has no initial hitboxes like Fox's, so if you are close enough and he's using it to recover, Fastfall to him and Rising Nair.
Yall are so upset about Falco Shinespikes, WHY are you recovering so low?
Recover med or High or fake a recovery mid and go for ledge. If you get that low and you KNOW he's gunna go for it, eggroll in place. This way, he knocks you up and you get to recover (or he gets a jumpcancel Dair, but that will be death for him too).
If you're low enough and you're concerned about a shinespike, Jump away from the stage and get back with eggroll to airdodge.
Another Option if he's trying to meet you right when you jump is to Rising Uair as a jump. If he wins that, you get knocked up. If you win it, you get back and you can Nair to reverse the situation.


Stages!

Personally, I HATE Yoshi's Island Brawl, always an instaban from me
other than that..... these are listed best to worst IMO
(Assume that I've already banned Yoshi's Island Brawl)

FOX:

Preferred Picks:
FD (best stage for the MU IMO)
FoD
Dracs Castle (if available)
Warioware
GreenHillZone
Yoshi's

Preferred Bans:
Smashville
Battlefield
Skyworld
Dreamland
Pokemon stadium 1

FALCO:

Preferred Picks:
DreamLand
Warioware
Pokemon Stadium 2
Drac's Castle
Smashville

Preferred Bans:
Yoshi's
FoD
Lylat

I personally believe that Warioware is Yoshi's best stage (or maybe it's just my favorite). The only matchup I stay away from it for is Marth.

I hope This Helped everyone!
If you have any questions or specifics on what I do in certain situations in these Matchups, don't hesitate to ask!

 

[Kudrah]

Fox n Flaco. Gotcha.

A good way to deal with pressure from both is to know what they want.

FOX:
Go for Grabs and punish him as much as possible with Bairs
After you hit 70%~ All foxes want either an Upthrow to Uair or an Upsmash. One major approach at that point is a drillshine Upsmash. Dealing with this, you dash forwards or eggroll for a split second then immediately exit. In these cases, Fox may try to drillshine or SourNair. When he jumps, dash back, and pivot grab. You'll get the grab either for free or for grab armor damage. If you get hit by drill, CC it and shield buffer. The Fox will either do what's automatic and shine to upsmash, or shine to grab or just grab. Shine to Upsmash you can shield and punish withe either a grab or an OoS Nair. If he goes for grab, It's very likely that you will Grab Parry it, free punish of your choice. If he goes for shine grab, this is when it gets tricky. you can roll right after the shine, but ONLY ROLL PAST him, not away, because if you do that guessing a grab and he wants an Upsmash, you die. Upthrow to Uair won't kill you if you mash Jump because armor is OP

Options for fighting fox, Crouch canceling will give you a huge edge. Upthrow will lead to a free uptilt until 100%~(with correct DI) and Upthrow is a chaingrab on Fox (Upthrow, Dash back, immediate pivot grab). Simple and safe thing to do is to Upsmash after an Upthrow because it's completely free until 100%~.

Edge guarding Fox:
Nair is his bane.
If he wants to phantom to stage, shorthop/DJC float Nair.
If he wants to phantom to ledge, run off Rising Nair
If he wants to Firefox to stage or ledge, Intercept with a Rising Nair.
In all of these scenarios you want to hit him with the tip of your boot because it's disjointed. (IMPORTANT KNOWLEDGE)
if Fox is over 50%~ any of these can kill.

FALCO:

Yes, Lasers suck, but the main thing you want a Falco to do is approach so you can punish. Dair on Shield to Shine is tough, but you can shield the shine and roll away or past them or OoS Nair after it hits (very little Falcos will multishine every time they Dair your shield, it's not in their muscle memory to have to do so). Falco wants to Fsmash or Dsmash you for kill or he wants to Dair you, but Armor will let you laugh at him. Alot of Falcos will Crouch before doing either of those moves because they want to CC to Cstick(or possibly shine). If you see this, you can safely eggroll at him, but either go through him and beyond or stop just short of his Fsmash range. If you pick the first option, make sure this is a medium to long range roll, because IF you choose to go through him, he may stop you with the predicted Fsmash. In this case, you'll clank and you can: Dash back and pivot grab, go for Jabs, Dtilt him away, or DJC Nair. If you want the second option, it's a free Forwardsmash, DownSmash, Grab, etc.
I'm sure you all have seen Falcos do the whole crouch stance waiting to CC and punish, so this is a great thing to take advantage of. other than eggroll, you can space a dashgrab so you catch him in his Fsmash and either get the grab for free or take damage on grab armor. You can dash forwards, wavedash back after the bait, and get a free grab or fair or Dair or anything really.

Fighting:
Eggroll is unsafe unless you roll off a platform, with this you can be creative but make sure not to be predictable. (remember the crouch stance)
Bairs are huge in this matchup as well as grabs. Downthrow to Utilt is Guaranteed at any rational percent (same with Upsmash).
Dtilt a Falco while he's off-stage and he's auto-dead.
Falco's UpB recovery has no initial hitboxes like Fox's, so if you are close enough and he's using it to recover, Fastfall to him and Rising Nair.
Yall are so upset about Falco Shinespikes, WHY are you recovering so low?
Recover med or High or fake a recovery mid and go for ledge. If you get that low and you KNOW he's gunna go for it, eggroll in place. This way, he knocks you up and you get to recover (or he gets a jumpcancel Dair, but that will be death for him too).
If you're low enough and you're concerned about a shinespike, Jump away from the stage and get back with eggroll to airdodge.
Another Option if he's trying to meet you right when you jump is to Rising Uair as a jump. If he wins that, you get knocked up. If you win it, you get back and you can Nair to reverse the situation.


Stages!

Personally, I HATE Yoshi's Island Brawl, always an instaban from me
other than that..... these are listed best to worst IMO
(Assume that I've already banned Yoshi's Island Brawl)

FOX:

Preferred Picks:
FD (best stage for the MU IMO)
FoD
Dracs Castle (if available)
Warioware
GreenHillZone
Yoshi's

Preferred Bans:
Smashville
Battlefield
Skyworld
Dreamland
Pokemon stadium 1

FALCO:

Preferred Picks:
DreamLand
Warioware
Pokemon Stadium 2
Drac's Castle
Smashville

Preferred Bans:
Yoshi's
FoD
Lylat

I personally believe that Warioware is Yoshi's best stage (or maybe it's just my favorite). The only matchup I stay away from it for is Marth.

I hope This Helped everyone!
If you have any questions or specifics on what I do in certain situations in these Matchups, don't hesitate to ask!

If I may add a little something to this massive piece of MU information, this is something I picked up from personal experience on these matchups. If you have really good aim with the egg throw, you can snipe Fox/ Falco before they can use side B using a ledge cancel up B (simply do up B right before you dash off the edge), and in doing so puts them in a position where they're forced to use up B instead.

What you do to edgeguard the up B depends on how far they're from the ledge. If they only have just enough distance to sweetspot the ledge, simply roll from the ledge and that's a stock right there. If they're closer than that, I go for an invincible rising Nair. I simply refresh my ledge invincibility by ledge cancelling a down B or an up B if you feel like tossing another egg. Alternatively, you get back onstage and abuse D tilt or D smash.

Also, learn to D smash out of shield. It's sooooo good ^_^.

 

[DarkLeviathan89]

I hope This Helped everyone!
If you have any questions or specifics on what I do in certain situations in these Matchups, don't hesitate to ask!

Definitely very helpful! Thanks again! Hope I get a chance to put this all into practice soon.

Funny you mention that Warioware is your favorite stage, I feel pretty good about going there usually as well. Dreamland is the neutral stage I try to avoid usually, less it's someone with vertical kill power like Fox (and even then, personally I prefer the air Green Hill Zone).

 

[TomBoComBo]

Definitely very helpful! Thanks again! Hope I get a chance to put this all into practice soon.

Funny you mention that Warioware is your favorite stage, I feel pretty good about going there usually as well. Dreamland is the neutral stage I try to avoid usually, less it's someone with vertical kill power like Fox (and even then, personally I prefer the air Green Hill Zone).

I think Dreamland just lets Fox move around too much and camp super hard

 

[TomBoComBo]

Examples of my play here. Check em out if you dare
https://www.youtube.com/user/messinyclive/feed

 

[didds]

I best Yoshi, got seventh in my 62 man bracket. Hopefully make twin cities, mn PR.

Beat our number 4 guy max berger. (Waka Falco Flame)

Disappointed at my first loss, turns out that when I picked the random aMSa tag for fun, it had tap jump off and I SD'd twice trying to egg stall. (never trust random tags). Lost the second game due to me losing focus in my frustration. lol Johns.

I got knocked out by a top player from Madison. He played a super campy Mario first game. It turns out that one of Yoshi's best options is to platform camp Mario if you have the top platform available, so I was able to win the first game. Then he switched to fox and dash dance camped my ass for two games in a row. He just called all my approaches and punished my impatience.

I'm getting better. and better. and better. Anyone going to Big House 4?

 

[Scatz]

Won't be there. Fox is a ***** to fight against with his speed. Yoshi's DD game has to be on point vs characters like him.

 

[didds]

I learned that the hard way, he never got impatient so I couldn't just fish for the pivot grab punish.

He lasered a lot and stalled me in his dash dance just as much. Any egg roll he would just jump to the plat form and wait for me either ignoring the move or dropping with a bair at higher percents.

And he did some really safe shine approach pressure, where he'd just jump away immediately. Very frustrating fight.

EDIT: oh yea, here's the bracket


http://mnfgc.challonge.com/HF2_PM

My tag is Dank?

 

[didds]

sorry for double post @ TomBoComBo @ Deviljho @ RaptorTEC

any of you guys going to Big House 4? I'm looking to do some dittos and talk Yoshi jazz in general

 

[Scatz]

Did your matches ever get recorded on a stream?

 

[didds]

Only the one match where I picked the crap, tap jump off tag on accident and SD'd twice, then played poorly the second game. I'll still see if I can find it since I'm sure there's something I can learn from it.

Edit: the match has yet to be uploaded. I'll try to get some more footage up soon, I've been making tons of improvements on my game and I think there is a lot to learn from my play since my DJC, waveland, and egg stall game is pretty on point. Yea, I'm tooting my own horn, I know, but Tombo can't be the only one outspokenly confident about their Yoshi

 

[RaptorTEC]

Where is Big House?

 

[TomBoComBo]

Big house is too far away, I have too much on my plate to be able to travel at this time. I'm hoping to be able to go next year maybe

 

[didds]

Where is Big House?

Romulus, Michigan

come one come all, to have the fun of all fun with fellow yoshis of the world!

I guess it's pretty far for anyone not in the midwest

 

[RaptorTEC]

Yeaaaah that's too far ;-;

 

[didds]

well maybe I just gotta make my way to New York at some point

 

[Kudrah]

Ugh, that's too far from Georgia...

 

[Damp]

Just come to GUTS3 in Connecticut this month. That's where I'll be.

 

[Knighto]

Just started picking up yoshi, and I am definitely of the opinion that he's really good! I also play sheik and I think yoshi gives the same advantage that most people don't know how to play against the character. I definitely get away with things that should be punishable.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Is it known that dash attack grabs the ledge if used almost off of it? I used it just like you see pikachu's use their dash attack and it grabbed the ledge, meaning you could proceed to egg stall to finish them off.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Is it known that dash attack grabs the ledge if used almost off of it? I used it just like you see pikachu's use their dash attack and it grabbed the ledge, meaning you could proceed to egg stall to finish them off.

yes, if you dash attack to the ledge then hold the opposite direction, you'll drop to the ledge, this works with platforms too and only 8 or 9 of the cast can do it, including Yoshi pika charzard falcon and ganon

 

[didds]

It's also just a great edge guard tool in general. Lingering hit box that hangs over the ledge, good priority, comes out quickly from dash. Niceness

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Was it in melee too?

 

[didds]

I can say I remember about melee. It may have been that you had to do a turnaround dj to insta-grab the ledge in melee.

 

[TomBoComBo]

I can say I remember about melee. It may have been that you had to do a turnaround dj to insta-grab the ledge in melee.

no, it was there, but you wouldn't turn around, you'd just go off the edge facing forward

 

[didds]

ah okay, and i meant to say that I couldn't remember exactly lol

 

[Deviljho]

yes, if you dash attack to the ledge then hold the opposite direction, you'll drop to the ledge, this works with platforms too and only 8 or 9 of the cast can do it, including Yoshi pika charzard falcon and ganon

I actually did not know this... Huh.

Also @ didds I am not going to big house 4. Idk if it's happened yet lol. I'm so out of touch. xD

 

[didds]

I actually did not know this... Huh.

Also @ didds I am not going to big house 4. Idk if it's happened yet lol. I'm so out of touch. xD

It's all good, If I make it on stream I'll be sure to post links and what not. In other news, I'm pretty sure I made my state's PR, but I'll have to wait til I know my specific placement.

 

[Scatz]

Anyone looking to play a few games late tonight (9 or 10 EST)? Trying to get myself prepared for Tipped Off 10, but work cut my practice time down to null x.x

 

[TomBoComBo]

Anyone looking to play a few games late tonight (9 or 10 EST)? Trying to get myself prepared for Tipped Off 10, but work cut my practice time down to null x.x

Netplay? I'm down

 

[didds]

Yo everybody, you're looking at Minnesota's number 7 player for PM :D

It'll be nice to see Yoshi's sexy purple face on that banner

 

[Mumbo]

Yo everybody, you're looking at Minnesota's number 7 player for PM :D

It'll be nice to see Yoshi's sexy purple face on that banner

You play purple yoshi? mm me

 

[didds]

haha, well my gf likes purple so i pick purple
but I'd love a money match. How close to west palm are you?
I got a friend and some family there.







okay i like purple

 

[Mumbo]

haha, well my gf likes purple so i pick purple
but I'd love a money match. How close to west palm are you?
I got a friend and some family there.




okay i like purple

Less than a half hour. Whos your friend? Does he go to versus?

 

[TomBoComBo]

White Yoshi FTW