The C-Stick Compendium - A Comprehensive Guide

[Taymond]

A very valid point, Wyvern, thank you for bringing it up. Mugwhump and I had just been discussing the mechanics behind this phenomenon in a general sense, and it did not occur to me to post that specific information. You're absolutely right, that is definitely a solid marketing point for Attack setup. It'll be added in just a minute or so.

 

[tag yeah]

very cool post, you really did alot of work with this. I'm going to try out the attack setting, personally. I always seem to smash instead of tilt . I've tried "B-sticking" already but was uncomfortable with it, maybe I'll pick it up in the future. Thanks again for the well done topic

 

[Dan_X]

Nice, thanks for compiling all of this Tavmond! Good effort!

 

[FartKnocker]

Tavmnod for prez.

Thanks for the awesome guide!

 

[mkmelee]

An amazing thread. So much info in one place.

 

[Vshadow]

Thanks a lot for putting this together. A lot of good info, I especially like the info on b-sticking techs.

 

[ducky285]

One thing you didn't mention with Tilt-sticking is that you can do f-tilts and u-tilts by pressing forward and up, respectively, while crouching or crawling. This is odd considering you can't do anything like that with the regular C-stick.

 

[Blathazar]

This is a very, very useful topic :D

Good work putting it all together!

 

[Strong Badam]

Is it worth mentioning that you can forward or upsmash out of a crouch or crawl with the Smash-C-Stick setting? :O

 

[rvs_rick]

Verry interesting, it really helped me to get better in brawl. I think you should make more guides, its verry well done and it was easy to understand.

 

[Gonzoyo]

I love b-sticking. It's a fantastic tactic, especially for Lucas and DDD.

 

[GothmoG aka CRIP]

Awww, I just thought I discovered auto-RAR, LOL, but I was obviously pretty late...

 

[Taymond]

Well, GothmoG aka CRIP, I'm glad you took the right steps in checking first to find that your discovery wasn't as groundbreaking as you thought, before posting a new thread on the matter. That was the right thing to do.

If you didn't, and I just haven't noticed your thread yet, then.. well.. in the future, check first. lol

ducky285 and Strong_Bad, I didn't mention those things in the first few drafts because it seemed knowledge that should follow from a general understanding of the C-Stick's purpose. I could be wrong in understanding what you're saying, and I could be completely wrong in thinking it's not notable. When I have an opportunity (I'm quite busy with classes the past few and the next few days) I'll look into the out-of-crawl situation and see if it's worth note. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

To all who found my guide useful, I'm glad you appreciated it and took the time to read it. In the future, I may make more guides, to those who've inquired, but probably not for some time. If I see an area that seems to get too many threads made about it, and I feel I'm capable of organizing all those questions and comments into a single thread, I may do so.

 

[GothmoG aka CRIP]

Well, GothmoG aka CRIP, I'm glad you took the right steps in checking first to find that your discovery wasn't as groundbreaking as you thought, before posting a new thread on the matter. That was the right thing to do.

If you didn't, and I just haven't noticed your thread yet, then.. well.. in the future, check first. lol

Hehe, I checked first, and has not made a thread ^_^

Anyways, as I failed to mention it in my last post, excellent compilation/guide!

 

[DSM01]

Good job. It's nice that someone finally wrapped everything up in one place. The C-stick vs. B-stick debate is an interesting one, but I think I'll stay with the traditional Smashes setting.

 

[S2]

Really great topic.

I'm so set in my Melee ways though, I'm not bothering to learn to B-stick. Still, I can see it be useful for some players.

 

[SCOTU]

@scotu, I really think you need to test C-Stick SDI again. It's incredibly easy to see, unless I'm wildly mistaken about what I'm witnissing. Just, like mugwhump suggested, toss a Smart Bomb at yourself and slam the C-Stick around. Be sure not to try at any speed lower than 2/3, however, as the C-Stick will not register correctly at 1/4 or 1/2 speed.

That is how I tested it, it's pretty clearly not there. I've also tested it with normal attacks such as rapid As and death kicks. If you're saying it doesn't register correctly at slower speeds (as in for SDI), thats because you're not holding it long enough XD.

 

[mugwhump]

^Wat

But

Then how do you explain all the, like... moving around? We must be doing something very differently. Huh.

Here's what happens for me: I throw smart bomb at Bowser. Bowser smashes the cstick. Bowser moves exactly how he does when I smash the analogue stick. Is this not happening for you?

Is your controller set to smashes? Are you in regular speed? Is your c-stick functioning properly? Are you using the Japanese version (I'm testing with the American one). I've really got no idea why you're not seeing it.

 

[billywill]

ah thanks very useful guide keep up the good work

 

[Taymond]

Yeah, I'm with mugwhump still, on this one. I can't believe we're getting such different results. *laughs* I just tested again, and I'm still getting the same result. C-Stick Smashes and Specials SDI.

I'm also with mugwhump on the issue of ASDI now, as well, though that's irrelevant to my guide. I checked it out against Bowser's neutral B and Pit's side B. Was able to move around just by holding the Control Stick, which is what ASDI is, if I understand correctly.

My results are identical to mugwhump's, I really don't know why you're not seeing the same thing as us. I can't think of any factors other than the ones mugwhump just mentioned that might contribute.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

By the way, you can do a Dair with the C-stick on smashes and not fast fall if you want. Just don't smash the C-stick downwards. Hit it like you would hit the control stick for tilts, and you can do a Dair without fast falling.

On the contrary, you can use the C-stick alone to fast fall your other aerials if you want. Try doing a Fair with the C-stick, then while the Fair is still coming out, hit down on the C-stick with the right timing and you'll fast fall your aerial. Fun stuff :D

 

[mugwhump]

^I didn't know that... interesting

Yeah, I'm with mugwhump still, on this one. I can't believe we're getting such different results. *laughs* I just tested again, and I'm still getting the same result. C-Stick Smashes and Specials SDI.

I'm also with mugwhump on the issue of ASDI now, as well, though that's irrelevant to my guide. I checked it out against Bowser's neutral B and Pit's side B. Was able to move around just by holding the C-Stick, which is what ASDI is, if I understand correctly.

My results are identical to mugwhump's, I really don't know why you're not seeing the same thing as us. I can't think of any factors other than the ones mugwhump just mentioned that might contribute.

wat

You could ASDI by holding the c-stick? I could only do it with the analogue... I should test again.

 

[mugwhump]

wat
double post

 

[Taymond]

Oh snap, lol. I misspoke there. ASDI with Control Stick, not C-Stick! Editing post now.

 

[Taymond]

By the way, you can do a Dair with the C-stick on smashes and not fast fall if you want. Just don't smash the C-stick downwards. Hit it like you would hit the control stick for tilts, and you can do a Dair without fast falling.

On the contrary, you can use the C-stick alone to fast fall your other aerials if you want. Try doing a Fair with the C-stick, then while the Fair is still coming out, hit down on the C-stick with the right timing and you'll fast fall your aerial. Fun stuff :D

I'm afraid I disagree on both points, Panda. I could, of course, be wrong, but I'll tell you what I found trying to duplicate both of these things.

As for the first, I was completely unable to replicate what you suggest. I failed, without fail ( =D ), to not fast fall my Dair, at or after the peak of my jump, when using the C-Stick. I fast fall'd no matter how lightly I pressed the C-Stick. I believe this is further evidence to support what mugwhump and I had been discussing a page or two back, that C-Stick Smashes and Specials are automatically interpreted as Control Stick Smashes no matter how hard the C-Stick is pressed, and C-Stick Attack is automatically interpreted as a Tilt, no matter how hard the C-Stick is pressed. Further evidence, for Specials, is shown with Samus's missiles.

About the second, I believe you're off on what's happening here, too. I was definitely able to see the effect you were describing when shorthopping. The timing appeared to be pressing down on C-Stick only at the peak of the jump, not after, while a different aerial was taking place. It seemed to work as you claimed for shorthopping, but when I fullhopped and did exactly the same thing--initiated an aerial just before reaching the peak, and hit down on C-Stick at the peak--the character did indeed fast fall, but they also initiated a Dair before touching down.

I think what you're witnessing here is just an offshoot of the new buffering system. I think you're inputting one aerial on the way up, and then are buffering a fast fall'd Dair with the C-Stick. At the first available opportunity, the Dair goes, but the fastfall hits from the moment of input. On a short hop, the first aerial is unlikely to finish in time to start the Dair, but a full hop plainly shows what's happening.

Again, I could be wrong, but this is what I observed.

 

[Ilucamy]

Kudos to you. You did a great job explaining all of these techniques. Unfortunately, it's kind of complicated and I'm too lazy to learn all these techniques as they don't seem overly useful. I suggest adding a section for application as well.

 

[Taymond]

Yeah, I hope to add more to the guide at some point. Most notably, I intend to compile a list of every move that receives benefit from a Recoil Special, with comparative practical use. I also hope to get some B-Sticking and general applications up sometime, too. I've been pretty busy with school the past week, though, and will be for a bit longer, so those sections will probably have to wait.

Edit: *laughs* Oh, April Fools smashboards, you got me! stock <--> time? Brilliant. And, uh.. for testing purposes: Bowser, Captain Falcon, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Falco, Fox, Game & Watch, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Ike, Jigglypuff, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Lucas, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Meta Knight, Ness, Peach, Pikachu, Pikmin & Olimar, Pit, Pokemon Trainer, R.O.B., Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Yoshi, Zelda, Zero Suit Samus, ZSS, Zamus, Squirtle, Charizard, Ivysaur, Brawl, Melee, tripping

I sure hope this doesn't last all day. It'll make communicating pretty rough, lol.

 

[mugwhump]

hehe lemme try

ZSS

Oh and you're right about not being able to use a DOWNWARDS DIRECTED AERIAL OFFENSIVE MANOUVRE with the cstick without fastfalling, I couldn't get it either. D:
And yeah you can press the c-stick down whenever you're falling to fast fall

 

[MysticKenji]

Umm, you can do Ftilts with the C-stick set to S.mash, idk why you're saying you can't

 

[mugwhump]

^You can't use the c-stick to do them, though.

 

[Taymond]

MysticKenji, did you, as mugwhump suggests, think I was saying that you can't Ftilt--at all--with the C-Stick on Smash? Or were you really saying that it's possible to Ftilt by pushing both sticks left or right?

If it was the first case, then yeah, I was only referring to being able to Ftilt by pressing the C-Stick and Control stick in the same direction, the way you can Utilt or Dtilt.

If it's the second case, please let me know. I tested this a number of times, because I had a sneaking suspicion I had done it before, but I wasn't able to do it on command at all. It's possible it just requires a more precise timing. Let me know if you think I'm wrong about this, and I'll look into it more.

 

[justexisting]

This is an impressive collection, I'm happy to see something like this laid out in one place, and judging by some of the responses, it's being kept up to date, and corrected, or confirmed.

in response to the 2nd post way at the start; i use Cstick smash, primarily for arials, and occasionally my alt setup using Bstick for toon link. that way i can use the auto-RAR and retreat with specials in the air. The boomerang has the most retreat to it of course.

 

[ducky285]

So I went back and looked at crouching and crawling.

While crouching, you can u-smash, f-smash, and d-tilt with the C-Stick and each respective tilt with the A-Stick.

While crawling, you can only use d-tilt with either stick setup. You covered that with the C-Stick but not with the A-Stick. I tested this with Yoshi and Diddy Kong.

 

[MysticKenji]

You can can do ftilts out of a crouch, too.
You have to tile the c-stick diagonally down.

EDIT: WTF c-stick jabs are possible

 

[ducky285]

You can can do ftilts out of a crouch, too.
You have to tile the c-stick diagonally down.

EDIT: WTF c-stick jabs are possible

You can do any tilt out of a crouch with the A-Stick setup. I believe I said that. You just tilt the stick in the usual direction.

I ALSO said you can't do anything other than a d-tilt with either the C-Stick or A-Stick setup while CRAWLING.

Also, with A-Stick, you jab by simply hitting back on the stick while standing or walking.

 

[MysticKenji]

You can do any tilt out of a crouch with the A-Stick setup. I believe I said that. You just tilt the stick in the usual direction.

Also, with A-Stick, you jab by simply hitting back on the stick while standing or walking.

If A-stick means C-stick set to Attacks, then that's not what I mean, because I don't use that.

 

[Taymond]

If A-stick means C-stick set to Attacks, then that's not what I mean, because I don't use that.

Then how in the heck do you C-Stick a jab? Are we playing the same game? The Smash setup does Smashes or Tilts, there's no C-Stick neutral in the Smash setup. Are you sure?

 

[MysticKenji]

Control Stick = up
C-Stick = up and in the opposite direction you're facing

It also works if you switch both to down.

 

[Gishnak]

Wait, wait, wait. If you have your c-stick set to smash, and you use the c-stick to smash attack, you can't trip? This is very useful.

 

[Taymond]

Wow. MysticKenji, thank you for bringing all this to my attention. I completely missed all those particular combinations of directions when I was searching out all the possibilities I could think of to write this guide. You're absolutely right about Ftilting and Jabs. It's no secret that you can't Ftilt by pressing forward on both sticks, but I didn't think to try forward at an angle. I had assumed it would be no different. Also, I'm completely taken aback by the jab possibility. I fully did not expect that to be possible with C-Stick on Smashes. I'm adding all that info to the guide just as soon as I write this post.

With regards to Ftilting, with characters who are able to perform Angled Ftilts, I noticed that, expectedly, both sticks Forward-Up resulted in an Upwards Angled Tilt, and Forward-Down resulted in a Downward Angled Tilt. Do you know if it's possible to perform an un-angled Ftilt with such characters? Let me know, if so. I was unable to do one.

ducky285, I'm going to throw a note into the Attack section to reiterate from the Smash section. I still don't think it's worth nothing that you can still perform 2 of 3 smashes out of a crouch, as it seems like you should assume that. I only mention the peculiarities of crawling because they're not what you would expect, and merit a specific mention.

Lastly, at Gishnak, tripping only occurs during a dash. By smashing manually, sometimes your timing will not be perfect and you will Smash the Control Stick slightly before the Smash attack registers. A slight movement occurs here, and it is possible to trip because of that movement. Smashing with the C-Stick ensures that the timing is perfect, and that your character makes no move horizontally before the Smash attack, so it will not cause a trip. It's not necessarily better by definition alone, though, since if you Smash with correct timing every time the normal way, you won't trip either. But C-Sticking your smashes eliminates the possibility of accidental movement that might result in a trip.