Jake The Preacher
The Amateur Preacher
I remember your U throw turn around punch, man that move made my head explode
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Yo das racist
1. Jab has lots of endlag so you can shield it or crouch cancel it and punish it with ease. Sure its a good move, but not OP by any means.Hey guys, I'm just stopping by to complain about DK a bit. He has some BS stuff about him that I hope gets addressed in the next patch. Now I'm not going to throw things out there barking for him to get nerfed cuz he shouldn't. He should just get tweaked to be a little less BS-ish.
Firstly, dat Jab. You beefed it up when it didn't need to. It combos and leads into grabs like nobodys business. It has incredible range for a Jab, where if he can't reach, he can do a quick Dtilt. How to change? Not sure, maybe reduce the range a little bit. I main Olimar and DK's Jab forces Olimar to be within a small area to be able to not get hit and get the grab.
DK's Grab range. This one is absurd. I'm fine with him having a large Grab box, as those giant ape arms should be able to grab far in front of him, but it extends all the back to his Butt. Cut that box off at his chest please.
DK's Fair is Bananas, the hitbox is enormous, it can linger, and it's crazy powerful, especially when used from a throw. It's also an incredibly safe edge guard (keeping the opponent from geting onto the stage from holding the ledge). It flows into Jab really well leaving little to no room for punishment, depending on if you L-cancel it properyly, or Jab once or twice, which leads into a Grab.
I get why you made it so he has more of a vertical recovery (Ness Yo-yo) but now he has virtually no problems going out after people. It seems like theres no risk on DKs end. Maybe reduce his horizontal recovery a bit for the trade? Not sure.
I don't like the term nerfing when it comes to DKs grab. He can litterally be standing there and grab from his butt. I don't want to take much away from his grab game, but when he is standing near the ledge and I just get up behind him, he can grab from behind him.1. Jab has lots of endlag so you can shield it or crouch cancel it and punish it with ease. Sure its a good move, but not OP by any means.
2. DK is a grab based character, nerfing the only thing that makes him viable makes absolutely no sense. Also, every character can grab opponents behind them in a dash grab.
3. Fair is insanely slow annd ridiculously easy to anticipate/punish in neutral. If you get hit by a lot of fairs, you are simply getting outread/outplayed and props to the DK player.
As far as hanging on the ledge, EVERY character can easily punish the lack of a sweetspot, or hanging on the ledge past invincibility frames. It is also very unsafe on shield and only leads to jab if the opponent is too slow to punish. It has no frame advantage what so ever in that case.
4. Horizontal range the is only, yes ONLY, good thing about DK'S recovery. Nerfing that also makes no sense. It's really easy to hit DK out of his up b. and if you dont want him to edgeguard you that deep all you have to do is recover low cause he cant go down there due to his terrible vertical recovery. If he consistently hits you way off stage while you are recovering, that means he is just reading you like a book and you aren't adapting. That has nothing to do with DK.
DK is a mid tier character. If he was broken like you say, there would be a LOT more high level DK'S out there. There is a reason Eli and Strong Bad dropped him, and that reason is DK simply isn't an easy character to play at higher levels. Based on what you posted, you most likely need to work on your punish game and being less predictable.
All I see is a bunch of johns and changes that would make an already mid tier character just become flat out unviable lol.Hey guys, I'm just stopping by to complain about DK a bit. He has some BS stuff about him that I hope gets addressed in the next patch. Now I'm not going to throw things out there barking for him to get nerfed cuz he shouldn't. He should just get tweaked to be a little less BS-ish.
Firstly, dat Jab. You beefed it up when it didn't need to. It combos and leads into grabs like nobodys business. It has incredible range for a Jab, where if he can't reach, he can do a quick Dtilt. How to change? Not sure, maybe reduce the range a little bit. I main Olimar and DK's Jab forces Olimar to be within a small area to be able to not get hit and get the grab.
DK's Grab range. This one is absurd. I'm fine with him having a large Grab box, as those giant ape arms should be able to grab far in front of him, but it extends all the back to his Butt. Cut that box off at his chest please.
DK's Fair is Bananas, the hitbox is enormous, it can linger, and it's crazy powerful, especially when used from a throw. It's also an incredibly safe edge guard (keeping the opponent from geting onto the stage from holding the ledge). It flows into Jab really well leaving little to no room for punishment, depending on if you L-cancel it properyly, or Jab once or twice, which leads into a Grab.
I get why you made it so he has more of a vertical recovery (Ness Yo-yo) but now he has virtually no problems going out after people. It seems like theres no risk on DKs end. Maybe reduce his horizontal recovery a bit for the trade? Not sure.
What kind of a situation are you in where you get back grabbed repeatedly to the point of complaining? lolI don't like the term nerfing when it comes to DKs grab. He can litterally be standing there and grab from his butt. I don't want to take much away from his grab game, but when he is standing near the ledge and I just get up behind him, he can grab from behind him.
It's not that I get hit by a lot of Nairs, but more that he can L-cancel it into a Jab grab combo really easily. This is at least against my Olimar (where this may just be a bad match up for me) who can't react or do anything quick enough to stop him.
I don't say that DK is broken. He just has some stuff that is really good. Thats not much of a bad thing, as he needs that stuff to compete against the higher tiers. The problem I may more have is that he can put me in situations where I cannot get out of them and then I get wasted. Sure, he reads me, but often the problem that I have is that he is has... say 6 options, as well as with me, but 4-5 of those 6 options will counter me.
I'll admit that I'm mostly venting, but you guys should really look at what else DK can do. He's not worth Dropping. I'm getting some recording equipment and I'll post some vids at some point showing some stuff that he can do that I haven't seen others like Strong Bad do. I should lose to the guy I fight because he's better at the game than me, but I just felt like I lose to some BS, some on DKs part, and some on Olimar's bugs part.
I get back grabed when I get up from the edge, and numorus other times when I get behind him when he grabs and he gets me. I never said that he intentionally did it to me... Technically my spacing is bad, because he can get me where I didn't think he could. Sometimes I go there on purpose and most of the times it's a fluke.What kind of a situation are you in where you get back grabbed repeatedly to the point of complaining? lol
If you are having problems with getting back grabbed, then I got some bad news for yeh. Your spacing must really be awful if your opponents intentionally do it to you. I would never use that as a sincere options against any of the top ten-ish in my region. Like, you didn't even complain about up+b oos which is ten times better than back grab.
As for your other complaints, I wouldn't even say the bulk of what you mentioned are even DK's strongest points. IMO, the one thing that keeps DK afloat in PM is how all of his moves come together. Not just his grab or fair, which admittedly are some of the best in the game, but his punish game in combination with his neutral game. He's a complete tank and each of his moves has a time and a place. He doesn't have to play as gimmicky as he did in Melee by bairing everything into oblivion, his Dtilt, Jab, and Nair work very well in alternation via use of crouch cancel. He can beat any character in neutral unless they have some kind of reliably spammable projectile which opens up for approaches (Mario's fireballs, Falco's Laser, ect.)
But to agree with you on one thing, DK's Jab is seriously something else. Jab grab is an actual combo, lol, and jab jab combos into kill against literally every character except maybe Weegee.
So Johning is now pointing out BS attributes on a character? Look, the guy I regularly fight against should beat me, because he's better than me. I'm simply pointing out things that both he and I agree are BS.I seriously can't believe this guy is still johning about DK
Mario's Fireballs are good against DK because they can double up and fly at unpredictable angles which make for unreliable countermeasures. Nairing through them works sometimes, but suppose there are two or three coming at different angles and Mario is running in afterward. Fireballs slow you down in the air which throws off timing for L-cancel as well as fastfall, and can allow for a rebuttal from Mario. He can pull up his shield and wait for you to hit it, and if you do a low nair in anticipation then you might not get (all of) the fireballs. Yes, nair is gahlike, but it's an overrated approach at best. I use it to blast through maybe one projectile at a time, but only if the opponent is already committed to an attack right behind it. Point being that nairing puts you into a prolonged commitment whereas Mario is still technically in neutral.Btw, you can Nair Marios fireballs as a great approach/defense. He has intagability on his Nair.
My bad on that, I assumed too much from your post. I doubt you will find any DK player who would be upset by the removal of his back grab, and players who would have otherwise whiffed a grab shouldn't be rewarded by a bad grab attempt, even if your spacing was bad to begin with. Point taken.I get back grabed when I get up from the edge, and numorus other times when I get behind him when he grabs and he gets me. I never said that he intentionally did it to me... Technically my spacing is bad, because he can get me where I didn't think he could. Sometimes I go there on purpose and most of the times it's a fluke.
I hate to break it to you but nothing in this game makes sense. Falco spins around in the air and if you touch his effing back you fly downward and can't come back up, let alone being hit by his feet. Hell, you don't even have to touch his feet. The hitbox extends outward so you can be kind of near them and get it. Point is that getting rid of things that don't 'make sense', if 'sense' is even definable in this context, would remove like half of the things in this game.I'm not here to complain about things that make him good. I'm complaining more about how things don't make sense for him. DK having a Back Grab doesn't make sense and I'm pretty sure its new to PM. I get Marths grab because its legacy and Ness/Mewtwo have back Grabs but thats acceptable since they are psychic.
When you say good, do you mean Melee? It certainly wasn't too good in that game. And since we're on the subject of making sense, it wouldn't make much sense for DK's jab to not go the distance it can, given how big his arms are. As POOB said, it's totally CCable. DK's jab is excellent, but is it really too good? And as a side-note, I wouldn't consider it a polarized buff. Dk's Jab reset on fast-fallers is incredible, and jab jab is my go-to option against every fast faller when I am skeptical about grab or utilt/uair.I don't want to take away his best stuff. Up B oos is fine. Personally, I think his Jab is better than it should be. It was already really good, but now, he can slaughter characters that he was already good against even more so. If anything, he pushes other characters that were below him in the tier list even lower, while not raising himself up in the tier list.
When I say DK's Jab was already good, I mean DK's 2.6 Jab. It was already really good, but now it pops them up better, allowing for easier combo's. Before it was really good at keeping someone away and can be used to get into combo's, but not it nearly gaurentees a Grab/Nair/Bair. I was just saying that it was amazing before, and it got a buff when we didn't think it was nessicary.When you say good, do you mean Melee? It certainly wasn't too good in that game. And since we're on the subject of making sense, it wouldn't make much sense for DK's jab to not go the distance it can, given how big his arms are. As POOB said, it's totally CCable. DK's jab is excellent, but is it really too good? And as a side-note, I wouldn't consider it a polarized buff. Dk's Jab reset on fast-fallers is incredible, and jab jab is my go-to option against every fast faller when I am skeptical about grab or utilt/uair.
As I already said, None of the things you listed are good in and of themselves. DK's range in combination with his weight and damage output make him a tank, not any particular move. If you played me instead of your buddy, you'd be complaining about Up+b sweetspots, dtilt, and fair spike instead of everything you listed in your post. If you want my advice, Predict the jab sequence and run up and crouch cancel. Free punish for you, ggs. DI away until about 55% (use common sense, please, this doesn't apply when you're offstage), and then DI up and slightly away from the stage until around 80-90% to avoid dying while still escaping combos. Fron that point he can still kill you because he is Donkey Kong (guaranteed KOs against every character which is why I love him), but he can't 0-death you.
Fair on shield is a huge frame disadvantage stop saying it easily links into jab lol. You just need to work on your OOS game.When I say DK's Jab was already good, I mean DK's 2.6 Jab. It was already really good, but now it pops them up better, allowing for easier combo's. Before it was really good at keeping someone away and can be used to get into combo's, but not it nearly gaurentees a Grab/Nair/Bair. I was just saying that it was amazing before, and it got a buff when we didn't think it was nessicary.
I also get Sweetspot Up'd, Dtilted and Fair spiked enough to want to complain about them, but I don't. I get it. I do have a problem with his Fair, because it has a surprisingly quick L-cancled recovery which links into Jab really well if shielded. I feel like it should be a smudge more punishable than it is in it's current state. It's an amazing move, and I don't think anyone would stop using it if was was tweaked a smudge. His Dtilt is so good, but I wouldn't dream of changing it.
Also, I'm not stating that they should remove everything that doesn't make sense. I'm in complete agreement with you. I was just talking about the back grab, which you agreed with.