tech skill is extremely important. don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[theONEjanitor]

Alot of people are like "its all about mindgames, tech skill is only a little important".

but i've discovered that's not really true. In order to be great at this game, you have to be able to move your character with speed and grace. you have to pull off your attacks and techniques flawlessly, because if you make just one mistake, that could lose you a stock. Moving slowly makes you very easy to predict. you have to know how to wavedash with certain characters, you absolutely MUST have mastered shffling. you should even master wavelanding and ledge teching and things like that.

Mindgames are just supplementation for tech skill.

I believe that the most important thing to know is just knowledge of the game, like what attacks to use at what time.

i dont even think "mindgames" are all that important. as long as you know what moves work and when to use them. and have the ability TO use them at will.

 

[FluxWolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYmXI-CYoc0&feature=related

gg no re

 

[mikeHAZE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlJtwaR8ZWY



get *****.

 

[FluxWolf]

ROFL all has been discussed close thread pl0x.

 

[MaNg0]

My puff doesnt have that much tek skill

and shes still a champ

 

[garbage]

Supplementation is usually used to describe the addition of vitamins and such to one's diet :D.
Supplement* is what you're thinking of.
Sorry.

 

[theONEjanitor]

@ mango....lol well jiggs you dont have to be technical. but for example, I dont practice jiggs that much, and as such My wall of pains are terrible, i miss back airs a lot. being able to do those moves flawlessly are what makes you win with jiggs. Jiggs just happens to be an easy character to play. is there even a such thing as a technical jigglypuff?

@ garbage
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/supplementation
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/supplement

@ flux
try placing in a tourney doing that

 

[MaNg0]

Jiggs happens 2 be easy 2 play??

did u just say that!!

I mean yea a low level puff is easy 2 play
BAIR BAIR BAIR BAIR BAIR BAIR BAIR BAIR BAIR BAIR.. REST

yea well try taking a match off of m2k marths With that

o yea ^_^ lol

 

[mikeHAZE]

mango don't worry people just don't understand how hard it is to shield camp and rest.


[/end burn]


DONT HURT ME MANGO. haha good **** lil ******

 

[SLyFISH]

Mango sleeps on m2k all the time with jiggulay pauufff

 

[BlargCow]

It probably depends on character, like with ganondorf or bowser l-canceling is needed, but mindgames are also necessary.

 

[Mew2King]

tech skill is probably more important than mindgames because you cover more options and more precisely having control, speed, and consistency

i dunno i just try to win the match

mango jigglypuff doesn't take much tech skill but in SSBM as a whole tech skill is really important

 

[MaNg0]

TEK SKILL IS NOT IMPORTANT!!!

have u guys seen gimpyfish fox..

DIDNT THINK SO

 

[behemoth]

I believe it is completely ignorant to say that mindgames are unimportant in SSBM.

Given two characters with equal or nearly equal skill, mindgames are the decider. If I know every attack to use in situations, every amazing combo, and can pull them off, I'm good. Perhaps even great. However, there is always going to be someone (at least one person) who is as good.

Given the math, I will win 50% of the time.

Champs don't win 50% of the time. Why? They possess the ability to out think their opponent.

Unless!

This thread is mindgames, to weaken opponents.

Well done sir.

Checkmate.

 

[slikvik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYmXI-CYoc0&feature=related

gg no re

Youtube comment from Broly : "yea for those of u who dont kno, im handicapped. i play w/ my face and 1 hand for the control stick. so, yea no l/r/z. but my spacing and timing is perfect."

He beat rob$ with no tech skill. thats crazy

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

No tech skill? Broly obviously does have techskill, he's not just spamming cstick. He's just using different parts of his body to perform the action. If anything, that takes MORE techskill =P .

I'mma have to lay down what I think the law is. Techskill gives you more fluidity, more control over your character. Being able to move around, when it is possible and prudent to do so, is huge in smash. Spacing. Guaranteed character combos often take techskill. You can try to mindgame a Marth all you want to get a grab for that uthrow-uair, but it's much easier to get a shine on marth so you can waveshine-> grab.

Also, people might be confusing mindgames with knowledge of the game. The two are clearly different. If you know that Marth can CC poke another Marth for the kill, standing there, doing nothing and waiting for the up+b to crouch the hit isn't a mindgame.

Techskill also incorporates knowing when your attack finishes and timing the next attack as soon as possible. Keeps you fluid, keeps you spontaneous.

DI (both survival and combo-escaping) falls under the catagory of techskill, not mindgames. I don't think I need to relay the importance of DI. Which reminds me. Gimpyfish is LYING when he says he has no techskill. I've played him quite a few times, and his DI is freaking good when trying to recover. Like, I tipper him 4 times while he's recovering, and he still kept surviving. So people's techskill might be in different aspects of the game.

Think it through. I'm not saying mindgames aren't useful, because they are positively crucial to playing competitively.

However, because of the aforementioned reasons, techskill is simply a necessity. I don't mean you have to shine double laser edgecancel illusion waveshine onto the stage. I mean you gotta do what you gotta do - things that pros nail every single time because they're worth learning.


Notice in that gimpyfish fox video shane had 4 stock, and Gimpy had 1. Lol?

shane is Eggz, my bad.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

I hate the term "mind games."

 

[Hylian]

@ flux
try placing in a tourney doing that

Broly got 4th out of 72 by doing that.

What now?

 

[MattDotZeb]

What I really wanna know is...
there a match of Broly playing where it shows his face/hand style?
lol
I wanna see how he does that.
Does he use his nose to hit the buttons?
How the hell does he see the screen? o_O
Is he God?

 

[that 1 guy]

Azen says he doesn't consider himself to be a technical player. Does Azen suck?

Ever watch drephen? That guy can use like 1 move and win.

 

[Cruise]

i believe tech skill is extremely important, but there's a threshold to how much tech skill is necessary.
all the top players can wavedash, l cancel, tech, shffl, etc in their sleep, but that's pretty much all that's needed. it's not about what you can do, it's knowing how to use what you can do. let's be honest, the people who have insane tech skill place fairly high in tournaments, but almost never win. if OPs statement is true, why arent the insane tech players placing 1 2 3?
there's only a threshold of tech skill needed, after that it's all mindgames.
look at aniki and masashi. aniki never wavedashes as samus, even though he can, hes just more comfortable not doing so i guess, and masashi almost never short hops as fox. their playing styles work for them, seeing how they're some of the top players in japan

 

[Retroking2000]

Mango sleeps on m2k all the time with jiggulay pauufff

best posst ever

 

[Eggm]

Drephen and azen are both really technically sound, thats why they can pull off the intense mindgames they use. For example, drephens ability to react to something WD back very fast and without triangle jumping etc.. is what lets his use that gay style of WD back grab and down smash all day, both are important, the more tech skill you have the more options the have thus the more mind games possible. Execution of your mindgames is based on tech skill.

 

[Zero_KoH]

I agree with Eggm. Tech skill is definitely an important aspect.

It's sort of a prerequisite if you think about it. You might be able to think 5 paces ahead of your opponent, but if you can't actually DO the moves you are thinking of those thought processes really don't mean anything.

The same concept applies to an actual fight, for example.
You might be able to read a right hook coming from your opponent, but without knowing the technical counter measures, you're probably going to get decked.

Techskill is what allows you to use "mind games"

 

[slikvik]

No tech skill? Broly obviously does have techskill, he's not just spamming cstick. He's just using different parts of his body to perform the action. If anything, that takes MORE techskill =P .

I'mma have to lay down what I think the law is. Techskill gives you more fluidity, more control over your character. Being able to move around, when it is possible and prudent to do so, is huge in smash. Spacing. Guaranteed character combos often take techskill. You can try to mindgame a Marth all you want to get a grab for that uthrow-uair, but it's much easier to get a shine on marth so you can waveshine-> grab.

Also, people might be confusing mindgames with knowledge of the game. The two are clearly different. If you know that Marth can CC poke another Marth for the kill, standing there, doing nothing and waiting for the up+b to crouch the hit isn't a mindgame.

Techskill also incorporates knowing when your attack finishes and timing the next attack as soon as possible. Keeps you fluid, keeps you spontaneous.

DI (both survival and combo-escaping) falls under the catagory of techskill, not mindgames. I don't think I need to relay the importance of DI. Which reminds me. Gimpyfish is LYING when he says he has no techskill. I've played him quite a few times, and his DI is freaking good when trying to recover. Like, I tipper him 4 times while he's recovering, and he still kept surviving. So people's techskill might be in different aspects of the game.

Think it through. I'm not saying mindgames aren't useful, because they are positively crucial to playing competitively.

However, because of the aforementioned reasons, techskill is simply a necessity. I don't mean you have to shine double laser edgecancel illusion waveshine onto the stage. I mean you gotta do what you gotta do - things that pros nail every single time because they're worth learning.


Notice in that gimpyfish fox video shane had 4 stock, and Gimpy had 1. Lol?

shane is Eggz, my bad.

everything you said was true. He did have excellent control over his character. I meant techniques that require the use of the sheild buttons such as shffling, wave-dashing, l-cancelling, wavelanding. hes physically unable to perform any of these techniques, yet he took out a well known player. Its pretty impressive

 

[Blu-ninja]

well that depends.

everyone has techniques they would rather use than others,

if everyone did the SAME shiffl, and the SAME mind game,
smash would be boring.

if some like using mind games,like myself, i say use them over techs....
only if your good at that and not the other.

 

[pablovirus]

Tech skill is the basics (knowing how to). Mind Games bring you victory in the end (knowing when to).
And DI, which is associated with Tech skill, also has to do with mind games, like when DIing out of a Chaing Grab or out of a combo. If you always DI up, you do have the tech skills to DI, but you dont know how to use it to your advantage when your opponent is comboing you. That is, you have to predict how his/her combo will go on and try to DI or Roll tech to escape/counter.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

i believe tech skill is extremely important, but there's a threshold to how much tech skill is necessary.
all the top players can wavedash, l cancel, tech, shffl, etc in their sleep, but that's pretty much all that's needed. it's not about what you can do, it's knowing how to use what you can do. let's be honest, the people who have insane tech skill place fairly high in tournaments, but almost never win. if OPs statement is true, why arent the insane tech players placing 1 2 3?
there's only a threshold of tech skill needed, after that it's all mindgames.
look at aniki and masashi. aniki never wavedashes as samus, even though he can, hes just more comfortable not doing so i guess, and masashi almost never short hops as fox. their playing styles work for them, seeing how they're some of the top players in japan

yay for discussion.
Mindgame in DI? I thought so for a while. Maybe the people I play with are just good at reading DI, but it seems that no matter where I DI, if they are supposed to be able to continue the combo, they WILL. If I DI upwards on a move that sends me upwards (to 'mindgame' them), to catch them offguard, they will be like "lolz" and continue the combo.

It should be noted that different characters require different levels of prerequisite techskill. To play yoshi well, for example, requires quite a bit of techskill.

About masashi and aniki, you're not about to tell me they have little techskill. They are -fast-, they lcancel just about every time (despite shield lag etc), but being unpredictable isn't necessarily what makes them win. I actually think in the case of these 2 players, it's how well they react to what their opponents which is what leads them to victory. Masashi's uair chains and shine game are deadly, don't forget.

4th is hella impressive.

Yes, there's a limit to how much techskill you need. I doubt that the OP was talking about excessive techskill. Keep in mind this is character-dependent. Falco comes to mind - try placing really well in a tournament with little techskill as him.

By the way, I've played Silent Wolf several times, I actually played with him last week. Trust me, the excessive technical helps, but is not necessary =P. The speed itself is a mindgame. I ledgecancel all the time as fox, it serves as a mindgame. Back in the summer, I played SW in finals and as soon as I was touched, I took an immediate 50% or so, or was hit into a position where I was being edgeguarded.

I think the OP purpose was to help correct the newer players who I KNOW constantly hear "techskillz not that important lawl you still have a chance juss learn mindgamez" throughout the board. That being said,

MISSION: Complete!

 

[Silent Wolf]

Tech skill is nothing without midgames, but Might be more important, and is definitely the harder part of the game. When I say that it's harder, I mean in a useful sense. Diong tricks by yourself isn't very hard really. Some are, but eh. Won't get that deep into it.
Also, there is no such thing as an unecessary level of tech skill, it's just hwo you use it.

 

[FalseFalco]

The following is what each of these terms mean to me as a player.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TECH SKILL
Most people confuse tech skill with doing many fast and complicated movements at all the wrong times (or all the time).

Tech skill is the ability to do what you want, when you want to.

MINDGAMES
Knowing when the right time to do what you want to is defined as mindgames. In terms of abusing key moments in competitive play, it's more important.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THESIS
"Mindgames" and "tech skill" don't really have a specific definition and therefore can't be solely relied on by themselves, or discarded as useless.

EVERYONE
sooo get *****.

 

[KingJiggyWiggy]

lol Bowser doesn't have a lot of tech skill. I bet ya didn't think of that! *FINGER SNAP*

 

[Mew2King]

there's a big difference between mindgame and playing smart, playing smart is a lot more important, that's how you win, mindgames are merely tricking your opponent. If "mindgames" covered "playing smart" in general, to win the match, then yes that is much more important, but that alone isn't as important as your ability to do what you want flawlessly and intelligent play to win. Just get good at the game and try to win the match.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

thank GOD somebody comes in and says that playing intelligently is not "mindgames"

thank you m2k.

playing intelligently is the most important, tech skill is obviously important, you shouldn't be feeling like you aren't able to do things in order to win, you should have your options and be technical enough to perform all of them consistently. this much is obvious.

not being limited in the options you have because you can actually perform all of the available options is very much an important aspect of the game, and anyone who doesn't include "spacing" in tech skill is being ridiculous.

intelligent gameplay + technical control > intelligent gameplay > technical control

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

Also, people might be confusing mindgames with knowledge of the game. The two are clearly different. If you know that Marth can CC poke another Marth for the kill, standing there, doing nothing and waiting for the up+b to crouch the hit isn't a mindgame.

DI (both survival and combo-escaping) falls under the catagory of techskill, not mindgames. I don't think I need to relay the importance of DI. Which reminds me. Gimpyfish is LYING when he says he has no techskill. I've played him quite a few times, and his DI is freaking good when trying to recover.

thank GOD somebody comes in and says that playing intelligently is not "mindgames"

thank you m2k.

HMPH!

not being limited in the options you have because you can actually perform all of the available options is very much an important aspect of the game, and anyone who doesn't include "spacing" in tech skill is being ridiculous.

HMPH!

thank you m2k and manuel.

Fix'd =/

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

wheres the i <3 m2k???




ill do it




I <3 M2K

 

[Velox]

thank GOD somebody comes in and says that playing intelligently is not "mindgames"

thank you m2k.

Agreed. Thank god somebody else said that.


Also, although basic tech skill is important, it's just so that you don't mess up something important. What people think the topic creator is referring to (hopefully he isn't...) is excessive tech skill. Silent Wolf tech skill. Although really cool, not really important to the game. However being able to do everything (l-cancel, short hop, grab behind you, etc.) is important (very important). As M2K said, solid tech skill is very important, "because you cover more options and more precisely having control, speed, and consistency".


And holy crap, M2K your last post makes me think totally different of you. Too good.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Azen says he doesn't consider himself to be a technical player. Does Azen suck?

Ever watch drephen? That guy can use like 1 move and win.

he probably means he's not "excessively" technical.

if he litereally thinks he's not technical, he's full of shiat

same for drephen. plus drephen plays sheik, who doesn't require much tech skill. drephen's just efficient, unlike 99% of people who play video games. he understands that if something is working, there is no need to change it.

and gimpyfish's post pretty much sums up what i was trying to say.

 

[snoblo]

yes, I'll give you that technical skill IS important. But if you look at all the pros and semi-pros, all their technical skill level is pretty close, so what determines who's a pro and who's not is with mindgames/experience/playing smart/etc. That's why people put the emphasis on those rather than technical skill, because in the competitive scene, good technical skill is expected.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Agreed. Thank god somebody else said that.


Also, although basic tech skill is important, it's just so that you don't mess up something important. What people think the topic creator is referring to (hopefully he isn't...) is excessive tech skill. Silent Wolf tech skill. Although really cool, not really important to the game. However being able to do everything (l-cancel, short hop, grab behind you, etc.) is important (very important). As M2K said, solid tech skill is very important, "because you cover more options and more precisely having control, speed, and consistency".


And holy crap, M2K your last post makes me think totally different of you. Too good.

I already said this. The more tech skill the better, it's how you use it. Having as much tech skill as me isn't a bad thing like you make it sound lol. Using it unnecessarily like i often do isn't key to winning though.

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

quit trying to seperate techskill and mindgames into 2 different compartments. if you are going to a be good player they are going to be symbiotic. either one will he useless without the other.