• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Team Star Fox call in Krystal for Smash!

Smokey21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
195
I'll have to read all this later, But I come bearing the fruit of a day or so of labor. It's the Krystal Alyx Replacement I said I'd do.
View attachment 133549 Thanks to the glorious SFM model that Mr K calls terrible for some reason, Featuring jigglebones everywhere you'd expect, full facial animation, along with goodies that i've done, such as fixing the weird boot sole clipping into the floor.
View attachment 133550 Krystal's staff over her EMP Tool because I don't like not having her staff with her.
View attachment 133551 And the Gatling Gun over the Alyx Gun, featuring the AR2 muzzleflash, a model that I ripped myself, and the Assault Gatling Gun audio, also ripped by me. No I can't do anything about the pistol holdtype, the game calls for the pistol animation out of my reach.

https://mega.nz/#!VuJjibqZ!yY8thGtu4j16YXOvKbEHdeaEbHRophhkOqsiDa7c9Og

To install simply place the extracted folder (will require 7-Zip which is free and something everyone should have if they manage files) into your hl2, ep2 and/or episodic folder inside your steam folder
This mod is amazing. I installed it and started playing half-life 2 again. I still gotta play episode 2 and I never actually did, but this mod will encourage me to actually play and finish it.

Speaking of mods... I also gotta make a port of the skyrim Krystal mod to fallout 4 since a fallout 4 Krystal mod still doesn’t exist. I gotta do some more research on how to port mods from skyrim to fallout 4, but it didn’t sound too hard from what I was reading about the new geck creation kit... I’ll keep you guys posted when I do start working on it.

And I noticed that the mugen sprites are also still under way. A post was made yesterday. I’m glad that they’re still being worked on because I could never find good Krystal sprites for mugen and these ones actually look like they will end up looking pretty good in the end.
 

Gagnetar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
392
This mod is amazing. I installed it and started playing half-life 2 again. I still gotta play episode 2 and I never actually did, but this mod will encourage me to actually play and finish it.

Speaking of mods... I also gotta make a port of the skyrim Krystal mod to fallout 4 since a fallout 4 Krystal mod still doesn’t exist. I gotta do some more research on how to port mods from skyrim to fallout 4, but it didn’t sound too hard from what I was reading about the new geck creation kit... I’ll keep you guys posted when I do start working on it.

And I noticed that the mugen sprites are also still under way. A post was made yesterday. I’m glad that they’re still being worked on because I could never find good Krystal sprites for mugen and these ones actually look like they will end up looking pretty good in the end.
It'll be featured on the Krystal Archive aswell, along with a short video I made sometime next week according to the site owner.

Also sweet, I'm following him fairly closely and await ingame test content.

Another month come and gone as we draw closer to the end of year direct. Recently I saw that reggie talked about the success of going into the mobile scene. Personally I find that mobile games are a great way to expand to a casual audience aswell the short play time that miyamoto emphasized is a great place to atleast consider bringing Star Fox too. It really needs more fans going forward if it's going to justify continued games. They could expand the turn-based elements of command and create a lite-version of the on-rails sections for the actual combat, like the ship simply flies forward and you can swipe to the side to do a barrel roll or swipe upwards to do a loop and swipe downwards to shoot a bomb. The Landmaster would be able to hover instead of doing a loop. It wouldn't be difficult to make Blue Marine sections off this either

They could also make 2D on-foot sections similiar to super mario run in that you constantly move forward. Each character would have a different weapon, you could swipe upwards to jump (alternate dodge aswell as letting you get to different paths and obtaining pickups), swipe right to dodge and swipe down for a special function.
You could match the starting cast of Super Mario Run and not really miss anyone aswell, Fox, Falco, Peppy, Slippy, Krystal and Wolf

Fox: uses a reliable semi-auto blaster, special releases a reflecting pulse as a smash reference that also stuns enemies
Falco: uses a rocket launcher that deals heavy damage but can't be fired rapidly, special lets him hover invulnerable and to shoot rapidly for a short period
Peppy: uses a penetrating bolt-action laser rifle, special calls down a laser shot from the great fox which will damage everything on the screen.
Slippy: carries a sentry-gun on his back that auto-shoots enemies, if you tap at the right time it gets a damage boost, special gives him a random pick-up with chances based on his current health
Krystal: uses her staff that you can hit in succession 3-times for a combo (this lets there be multiple enemy types while allowing a melee style character to work in this lite game setting), special unleashes a powerful and large blue shot that penetrates all targets it hits
Wolf: uses an auto-charging machine gun that fires more rapidly at higher charges, special causes him to dual-wield and gives him infinite charge for a period

This would be a great way to enhance the popularity of the cast, But personally I think it does the most for Krystal herself because she would be considered one of the hardest and most unique characters to play.

Of course this isn't going to happen but the format for something like this isn't substantially complicated and might help boost a struggling franchise.
 
Last edited:

Smokey21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
195
It'll be featured on the Krystal Archive as well, along with a short video I made sometime next week according to the site owner.

Also sweet, I'm following him fairly closely and await in-game test content.

Another month come and gone as we draw closer to the end of year direct. Recently I saw that Reggie talked about the success of going into the mobile scene. Personally I find that mobile games are a great way to expand to a casual audience as well the short play time that Miyamoto emphasized is a great place to at least consider bringing Star Fox too. It really needs more fans going forward if it's going to justify continued games. They could expand the turn-based elements of command and create a lite-version of the on-rails sections for the actual combat, like the ship simply flies forward and you can swipe to the side to do a barrel roll or swipe upwards to do a loop and swipe downwards to shoot a bomb. The Land-master would be able to hover instead of doing a loop. It wouldn't be difficult to make Blue Marine sections off this either

They could also make 2D on-foot sections similar to super Mario run in that you constantly move forward. Each character would have a different weapon, you could swipe upwards to jump (alternate dodge as well as letting you get to different paths and obtaining pickups), swipe right to dodge and swipe down for a special function.
You could match the starting cast of Super Mario Run and not really miss anyone as well, Fox, Falco, Peppy, Slippy, Krystal and Wolf.

Fox: uses a reliable semi-auto blaster, special releases a reflecting pulse as a smash reference that also stuns enemies
Falco: uses a rocket launcher that deals heavy damage but can't be fired rapidly, special lets him hover invulnerable and to shoot rapidly for a short period
Peppy: uses a penetrating bolt-action laser rifle, special calls down a laser shot from the great fox which will damage everything on the screen.
Slippy: carries a sentry-gun on his back that auto-shoots enemies, if you tap at the right time it gets a damage boost, special gives him a random pick-up with chances based on his current health
Krystal: uses her staff that you can hit in succession 3-times for a combo (this lets there be multiple enemy types while allowing a melee style character to work in this lite game setting), special unleashes a powerful and large blue shot that penetrates all targets it hits
Wolf: uses an auto-charging machine gun that fires more rapidly at higher charges, special causes him to dual-wield and gives him infinite charge for a period

This would be a great way to enhance the popularity of the cast, But personally I think it does the most for Krystal herself because she would be considered one of the hardest and most unique characters to play.

Of course this isn't going to happen but the format for something like this isn't substantially complicated and might help boost a struggling franchise.
Oh hey it's up on Krystal Archive already! For anyone else here that would be interested in seeing the mod more in action.

Mobile would probably get a larger audience into the Star Fox franchise, but I don't want the game to end up on permanent mobile status if it ends up being more successful than Nintendo's main console release counterparts. Because I don't play Handheld devices, mobile included. I would likely give Star Fox a chance on mobile because it's, well Star Fox... lol.

You have some pretty cool game concepts there for a potential mobile release. Let's expand a little on Krystal's abilities because everyone else would have an innate advantage over her without a little something else, having ranged attacks and all. Maybe have her staff start out dealing slightly less damage than everyone else, but it builds up damage bonuses based on how well you play the character, like you get a damage buff that stacks up a few times and persists until you miss a target or are inactive for too long. Maybe have it stack when you complete a combo on an enemy? I dunno, more combat ideas? :p

Also, we really don't know what Nintendo plans to do with Star Fox right now, so we're inevitably stuck in permanent speculation status as to the direction the franchise will take next. Simply put, we don't know what to expect but remain hopeful that we will see something amazing next time around. If they do decide to do a mobile game, cool, I hope it does well. I just hope that they try as hard as they did with Zelda to get it out there. You guys remember how much hype they were building for Zelda back in 2016? That was some hype, lol.
 

Guybrush20X6

Creator of Lego Theory
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
15,882
NNID
Guybrush20X6
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904

Smokey21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
195
Been a while but I've made some changes the concept of Star Fox Adventures: Breath of the Wild style. And made it so everyone can leave comments on the Google Doc so feedback can happen.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ufKhDFrDp0BQEFJ71KoNh2tzWXGEkFc7bl8IrzFVJoE/edit?usp=sharing

(Gotta make sure I don't accidentally make Horizon Zero Dawn: Furry edition)
Oh cool! I like a lot of the ideas you have in here. If you’d like some feedback I’d be happy to stop by and throw some ideas around to help out. I’ve had a few of my own game ideas and things like this are always fun to just get involved with. So what kind of power ups would you get from the krazoa shrines you think? Or what kind of benefits do you get from better crafting stations? I also think that Krystal does need her own game to flesh out her character more and I’m sure that her getting her own game not having to do much with the main star fox plot line would only benefit her popularity and get her out of the current damsel in distress roll she was forced into in adventures.

I also found out that there is a new warfaremachine sfm krystal model in the cerinian gear. I figured you guys would enjoy this so I had to get up and make a post today! I think it actually looks really good!
 

Mr. Brownstone

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Messages
45
Oh cool! I like a lot of the ideas you have in here. If you’d like some feedback I’d be happy to stop by and throw some ideas around to help out. I’ve had a few of my own game ideas and things like this are always fun to just get involved with. So what kind of power ups would you get from the krazoa shrines you think? Or what kind of benefits do you get from better crafting stations? I also think that Krystal does need her own game to flesh out her character more and I’m sure that her getting her own game not having to do much with the main star fox plot line would only benefit her popularity and get her out of the current damsel in distress roll she was forced into in adventures.

I also found out that there is a new warfaremachine sfm krystal model in the cerinian gear. I figured you guys would enjoy this so I had to get up and make a post today! I think it actually looks really good!

Yeah, it's always nice to gather ideas and come up with stuff that could flesh out all these unsolved things. We all know that Krystal has much potential when it comes to that. If Krystal ever gets her own game (which is unlikely), I still want the other SF characters to appear in some kind of cameo at the end, picking her up or something.

I can't believe that some of the haters still bring up the whole damsel thing. To me, Assault and even Command redeemed Krystal from that role, entirely. And when you think about it, even in Adventures, there is more to Krystal than just that. Some of the haters just cannot see those details. Compared to Peach, Krystal's role in Adventures is still okay-ish. A lot of people don't see the obvious difference: Krystal was actually captured, in a crystal prison that drained her energy and even left her in an unconscious state. Peach, on the other hand, is still free to move in many cases and could actually fight back, but she doesn't. If Krystal was in that situation, she would totally fight back even if the odds were against her, just like on Scales' galleon. Not to mention that Krystal was willing to save an entire planet on her own. Even after losing her staff, she never seemed scared or doubtful at all. When she was released, the first thing she did was getting her staff back from Fox, so she could fight. In terms of characterization and personality, Krystal is anything but a damsel. I mean, she even taunted Scales shortly after almost falling to her death, which surely demonstrates her coolness. When it comes to the 'men always escape prisons' nonsense that Anita Sarkeesian brought up, she didn't consider that Fox had help from Slippy (SharpClaw disguise) in CloudRunner Fortress. Heck, the LightFoots would have killed Fox if it wasn't for the CloudRunner appearing out of nowhere. Also, Andross had a good reason to capture Krystal. Without her, he could've never revived himself as she was the one who could actually channel the spirits to him, meaning that Krystal has immense powers. Unfortunately, those powers were never fleshed out. But it doesn't mean that they do not exist. Yeah, so much for the damsel role. Don't get me wrong, I don't like her role in Adventures either. IMO, the only game that treated her properly was Assault and I'm glad that people are slowly waking up to realize how good Assault actually is.

I know you guys didn't need to hear all that stuff, but every time I read the word 'damsel' I get triggered, Sorry :p That SFM model looks dope, btw.
 

Gagnetar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
392
Yeah, it's always nice to gather ideas and come up with stuff that could flesh out all these unsolved things. We all know that Krystal has much potential when it comes to that. If Krystal ever gets her own game (which is unlikely), I still want the other SF characters to appear in some kind of cameo at the end, picking her up or something.

I can't believe that some of the haters still bring up the whole damsel thing. To me, Assault and even Command redeemed Krystal from that role, entirely. And when you think about it, even in Adventures, there is more to Krystal than just that. Some of the haters just cannot see those details. Compared to Peach, Krystal's role in Adventures is still okay-ish. A lot of people don't see the obvious difference: Krystal was actually captured, in a crystal prison that drained her energy and even left her in an unconscious state. Peach, on the other hand, is still free to move in many cases and could actually fight back, but she doesn't. If Krystal was in that situation, she would totally fight back even if the odds were against her, just like on Scales' galleon. Not to mention that Krystal was willing to save an entire planet on her own. Even after losing her staff, she never seemed scared or doubtful at all. When she was released, the first thing she did was getting her staff back from Fox, so she could fight. In terms of characterization and personality, Krystal is anything but a damsel. I mean, she even taunted Scales shortly after almost falling to her death, which surely demonstrates her coolness. When it comes to the 'men always escape prisons' nonsense that Anita Sarkeesian brought up, she didn't consider that Fox had help from Slippy (SharpClaw disguise) in CloudRunner Fortress. Heck, the LightFoots would have killed Fox if it wasn't for the CloudRunner appearing out of nowhere. Also, Andross had a good reason to capture Krystal. Without her, he could've never revived himself as she was the one who could actually channel the spirits to him, meaning that Krystal has immense powers. Unfortunately, those powers were never fleshed out. But it doesn't mean that they do not exist. Yeah, so much for the damsel role. Don't get me wrong, I don't like her role in Adventures either. IMO, the only game that treated her properly was Assault and I'm glad that people are slowly waking up to realize how good Assault actually is.

I know you guys didn't need to hear all that stuff, but every time I read the word 'damsel' I get triggered, Sorry :p That SFM model looks dope, btw.
I'll be sure to upgrade the mod when it comes out, it's kind of hilarious that he's charging people for the model though, I don't even know if that's legal but I doubt he cares lol. It makes the face much more krystal-like and I know some people swear by the Adventures outfit aswell.

Since we're on the damsel note, Krystal's been like 3 completely different people from all of her appearences so take your pick. it's almost like if you're a nintendo girl you basically have to be a DiD at some point, barring Samus obviously and maybe a select few others.
 

Luminario

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
1,829
Location
Your guess is as good as mine
Yeah, it's always nice to gather ideas and come up with stuff that could flesh out all these unsolved things. We all know that Krystal has much potential when it comes to that. If Krystal ever gets her own game (which is unlikely), I still want the other SF characters to appear in some kind of cameo at the end, picking her up or something.

I can't believe that some of the haters still bring up the whole damsel thing. To me, Assault and even Command redeemed Krystal from that role, entirely. And when you think about it, even in Adventures, there is more to Krystal than just that. Some of the haters just cannot see those details. Compared to Peach, Krystal's role in Adventures is still okay-ish. A lot of people don't see the obvious difference: Krystal was actually captured, in a crystal prison that drained her energy and even left her in an unconscious state. Peach, on the other hand, is still free to move in many cases and could actually fight back, but she doesn't. If Krystal was in that situation, she would totally fight back even if the odds were against her, just like on Scales' galleon. Not to mention that Krystal was willing to save an entire planet on her own. Even after losing her staff, she never seemed scared or doubtful at all. When she was released, the first thing she did was getting her staff back from Fox, so she could fight. In terms of characterization and personality, Krystal is anything but a damsel. I mean, she even taunted Scales shortly after almost falling to her death, which surely demonstrates her coolness. When it comes to the 'men always escape prisons' nonsense that Anita Sarkeesian brought up, she didn't consider that Fox had help from Slippy (SharpClaw disguise) in CloudRunner Fortress. Heck, the LightFoots would have killed Fox if it wasn't for the CloudRunner appearing out of nowhere. Also, Andross had a good reason to capture Krystal. Without her, he could've never revived himself as she was the one who could actually channel the spirits to him, meaning that Krystal has immense powers. Unfortunately, those powers were never fleshed out. But it doesn't mean that they do not exist. Yeah, so much for the damsel role. Don't get me wrong, I don't like her role in Adventures either. IMO, the only game that treated her properly was Assault and I'm glad that people are slowly waking up to realize how good Assault actually is.

I know you guys didn't need to hear all that stuff, but every time I read the word 'damsel' I get triggered, Sorry :p That SFM model looks dope, btw.
There's no need to put other women down to raise Krystal up. Peach, Zelda, and Krystal are amongst many other female Nintendo characters that have all simply been subjected to bad story writing. Peach and Krystal are absolutely able to be compared because they are both capable women relegated to being the damsels in distress and both truly do deserve better.
 

Gagnetar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
392
There's no need to put other women down to raise Krystal up. Peach, Zelda, and Krystal are amongst many other female Nintendo characters that have all simply been subjected to bad story writing. Peach and Krystal are absolutely able to be compared because they are both capable women relegated to being the damsels in distress and both truly do deserve better.
I have to agree with your first two points, no need to throw down other characters for krystal and they are both subject to bad writing but I have to disagree with both being capable women. Peach being a DiD is literally a core part of the mario rehashed storyline, it's her character, atleast in most people's eyes. Krystal being a DiD was due to the poor transition from DP to SFA, right up till the end she was supposed to be useful, this is remedied in assault where she's a fully functional team member, which ironically is just as useless as the rest of the SF team, but hey it's all about having Fox getting the highest kills right? and in Command she could probably deal with pretty much any cast member, she's play Fox for a fool for an entire story path, plus her ship is one of the best, her incredible sadism in that game is plain ridiculous, I'd rather she just be trapped in another crystal than have it again.
 

Luminario

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
1,829
Location
Your guess is as good as mine
I have to agree with your first two points, no need to throw down other characters for krystal and they are both subject to bad writing but I have to disagree with both being capable women. Peach being a DiD is literally a core part of the mario rehashed storyline, it's her character, atleast in most people's eyes. Krystal being a DiD was due to the poor transition from DP to SFA, right up till the end she was supposed to be useful, this is remedied in assault where she's a fully functional team member, which ironically is just as useless as the rest of the SF team, but hey it's all about having Fox getting the highest kills right? and in Command she could probably deal with pretty much any cast member, she's play Fox for a fool for an entire story path, plus her ship is one of the best, her incredible sadism in that game is plain ridiculous, I'd rather she just be trapped in another crystal than have it again.
Peach has been shown to be strong and capable though. Games like Super Mario Bros 2, Mario RPG, Super Princess Peach, and Super Mario 3D World have all shown her to be more than capable of defending herself, and that's not counting the multitide of spin-offs. Peach was created to be the DiD of the original SMB, I won't argue that, and while I'm glad it brought about the creation of her character it was bad writing then and it's bad writing now. Likewise Krystal's shifting personality is also bad writing, like is it so hard to make conflict while sticking to her being a compassionate telepath?
 

Tortilla Noggin

Smash Obsessed
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
20,726
Peach has been shown to be strong and capable though. Games like Super Mario Bros 2, Mario RPG, Super Princess Peach, and Super Mario 3D World have all shown her to be more than capable of defending herself, and that's not counting the multitide of spin-offs.
Am I the only one who really liked her role in Super Mario Bros. 3? For most of the game, she's not a damsel-in-distress at all - she's sending Mario letters to provide tips to him, presumably due to scoping out what's going on elsewhere. It's only at the end that that changes.
 

Mr. Brownstone

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Messages
45
Since we're on the damsel note, Krystal's been like 3 completely different people from all of her appearences so take your pick.
That sums it up perfectly ;)


I'd rather she just be trapped in another crystal than have it again.
While I despise her in Command, I'm not entirely sure which role I'd pick. I couldn't decide right away. Tough choice, at least for me.


There's no need to put other women down to raise Krystal up. Peach, Zelda, and Krystal are amongst many other female Nintendo characters that have all simply been subjected to bad story writing. Peach and Krystal are absolutely able to be compared because they are both capable women relegated to being the damsels in distress and both truly do deserve better.
That was not really my intention. I was just trying to contrast these 2 from a personality perspective. I know that Peach is a capable woman and I'm also aware of the fact that there are games in which she already proved it to some degree. However, you cannot deny that in many cases there is a certain cowardice to her character, like in Odyssey. Again, I'm not saying that she is a bad character. Many Nintendo characters (especially the girls) deserve much better, we all know that. The thing is, what's done is done. We can't change the past. That's why I just don't get people still bringing up Krystal's role in Adventures, as if it was that big a deal, but they never talk about the other games she appeared in. Anyway, I think we should rather focus on the future. That's what we're here for after all ;)
 
Last edited:

Guybrush20X6

Creator of Lego Theory
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
15,882
NNID
Guybrush20X6
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
My idea for how to work Star Fox into the Krystal game works as such: Optional for completion, essential for 100%

Throughout the game you can rewire Sharpclaw beacons to send distress signals to the worlds beyond. This has a knock-on effect on the ground of making the Sharpclaw on the ground stronger as they're given reinforcements and better equipment to stomp out whoever's sending the signal, but this is turn can help you as you can get better stuff of the ones you defeat. How many you activate changes the ending.

Low Contact Ending: Krystal defeats General Scales, obtaining the last keystone and repairing the world. But as Scales chokes out his last, he declares "he" has obtained the energy he needs and Krystal will regret making an enemy out of "him", dying before Krystal can find out who "he" is. As the Dinosaurs celebrate the defeat of the Sharpclaws, Krystal wonders if there's worse to come while Tricky assures her if there is, they'll be ready.

Mid Contact Ending: Same as before but as Krystal ponders if worse is to come, Tricky points out a flock of giant metal Cloudrunners approaching. Krystal communication device suddenly picks up voices. "Looks like we missed all the fun." "Just in time for the party though." "Oh boy, a party! Do you think they have cake?" "It's Dinosaur Planet Slippy, if they've got cake it's made of ferns or something."

Direct Contact Ending: If Krystal activates all the beacons, the story shifts significantly, as General Pepper calls in Star Fox, forcing General Scales's backer to reveal himself. From here General Scales is instead the Penultimate Boss and the final boss is the giant floating head of (drum roll please) Andross. Andross protects himself with the stolen power of the Krazoa, siphoned from the planet so Krystal and the Dinosaurs on the ground have to sabotage them, while Star Fox keeps him busy. Bonus: Activating all the Beacons grants Krystal a blaster which has unlimited ammo and a fast fire rate at the cost of low damage and a cooldown.
 

Gagnetar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
392
About a month has passed and still nothing really new to say directly about the fair vixen. However for me the recent Bayonetta stuff for switch makes me think that this was decided rather early in the ballot or perhaps even without it. So if I had to guess the ballot will have a heavier handed focus for Smash Switch and that may have been the primary intention. Seeing how cloud and bayonetta have panned out makes me think grabbing 3rd party characters are a fairly heavy investment for both companies so we shouldn't have to worry about too many of those. All of Krystal's benefits and issues still apply as we've discussed. I'm still of the mind that they're carefully perfecting the game and that's why they haven't done the Prime 4 styled announcement. The internet is so obsessed with Smash when talking about Nintendo that perhaps they just want to be careful with how they do it. If they are of this mind then I'd imagine a mix of trending character additions with easily-accessible fan favorites. That's one of her biggest advantages, her being first-party property. As time passes the trending characters fade-out with the new game releases and many may not have enough nintendo lineage to work themselves over more recent characters at the time of development but without the game's announcement I can't speculate kit competition or who any of the trending characters will be. Naturally trending characters are likely better for monetary gain, But since Krystal has a lineage and a kit backing her (albeit her lineage is rocky in terms of success) This does give her an edge among trending picks for a specific grab. It's hard to say how they'll balance these newcomers so it's quite hard to give her specific chances. On one hand if they think with money I find little point in catering the fanbase when Smash is a mainstream game so more-general popular characters seem to make more sense, Though I must admit the characters that would get the most draw at this point have some interesting complications. I know r/gaming wants Master Chief, who i'm pretty sure wouldn't work even if Microsoft played ball. As the general thread has discussed
There's quite a good selection in Smash and they have to start looking lower for characters. Depending on how much they do with Smash switch in terms of gameplay changes that will directly affect her chances. the Switch is setting a pretty high bar for nintendo games so I'm of the mind that they'll shoot for high-newcomer count as that's the primary draw of new smashes, which is only somewhat practical if they directly base Smash switch on Smash 4, which i'd rather enjoy. But somewhat in her favor during this modern age of social media companies have followed suit of caring about the vocal minority and catering to them. Though I'm curious to how far back this goes, as Krystal's internet popularity regarding Smash in other places seem to fade out after the ballot ended. If we're lucky they expanded past the ballot and searched to other places. And if we're really lucky Smashboards is taken into consideration during Smash Switch.

Nintendo also asked out for mature games to appear on the switch. That's relevant for the obvious yet unspoken reason regarding Krystal's primary relevance. According to Mr K, there was a time where Nintendo had their own forum where people could talk about anything related to nintendo, yet they blocked or removed anything furry-related, ironic because Krystal created quite a few furries. I find it difficult to imagine if NoA actually has a grasp of knowledge around Krystal that they wouldn't have some idea.
We also do have Bayonetta in the game so there's that lol.

All-in-all, Krystal has a handful of advantages over other characters, but they are marred by a few pretty meaningful downsides, I can't say I'd be surprised if she was included or excluded in Smash Switch, though most obviously I hope she makes it in.
 
Last edited:

Smokey21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
195
About a month has passed and still nothing really new to say directly about the fair vixen. However for me the recent Bayonetta stuff for switch makes me think that this was decided rather early in the ballot or perhaps even without it. So if I had to guess the ballot will have a heavier handed focus for Smash Switch and that may have been the primary intention. Seeing how cloud and bayonetta have panned out makes me think grabbing 3rd party characters are a fairly heavy investment for both companies so we shouldn't have to worry about too many of those. All of Krystal's benefits and issues still apply as we've discussed. I'm still of the mind that they're carefully perfecting the game and that's why they haven't done the Prime 4 styled announcement. The internet is so obsessed with Smash when talking about Nintendo that perhaps they just want to be careful with how they do it. If they are of this mind then I'd imagine a mix of trending character additions with easily-accessible fan favorites. That's one of her biggest advantages, her being first-party property. As time passes the trending characters fade-out with the new game releases and many may not have enough nintendo lineage to work themselves over more recent characters at the time of development but without the game's announcement I can't speculate kit competition or who any of the trending characters will be. Naturally trending characters are likely better for monetary gain, But since Krystal has a lineage and a kit backing her (albeit her lineage is rocky in terms of success) This does give her an edge among trending picks for a specific grab. It's hard to say how they'll balance these newcomers so it's quite hard to give her specific chances. On one hand if they think with money I find little point in catering the fanbase when Smash is a mainstream game so more-general popular characters seem to make more sense, Though I must admit the characters that would get the most draw at this point have some interesting complications. I know r/gaming wants Master Chief, who i'm pretty sure wouldn't work even if Microsoft played ball. As the general thread has discussed
There's quite a good selection in Smash and they have to start looking lower for characters. Depending on how much they do with Smash switch in terms of gameplay changes that will directly affect her chances. the Switch is setting a pretty high bar for nintendo games so I'm of the mind that they'll shoot for high-newcomer count as that's the primary draw of new smashes, which is only somewhat practical if they directly base Smash switch on Smash 4, which i'd rather enjoy. But somewhat in her favor during this modern age of social media companies have followed suit of caring about the vocal minority and catering to them. Though I'm curious to how far back this goes, as Krystal's internet popularity regarding Smash in other places seem to fade out after the ballot ended. If we're lucky they expanded past the ballot and searched to other places. And if we're really lucky Smashboards is taken into consideration during Smash Switch.

Nintendo also asked out for mature games to appear on the switch. That's relevant for the obvious yet unspoken reason regarding Krystal's primary relevance. According to Mr K, there was a time where Nintendo had their own forum where people could talk about anything related to nintendo, yet they blocked or removed anything furry-related, ironic because Krystal created quite a few furries. I find it difficult to imagine if NoA actually has a grasp of knowledge around Krystal that they wouldn't have some idea.
We also do have Bayonetta in the game so there's that lol.

All-in-all, Krystal has a handful of advantages over other characters, but they are marred by a few pretty meaningful downsides, I can't say I'd be surprised if she was included or excluded in Smash Switch, though most obviously I hope she makes it in.
Merry Krystmas you guys! I was going to make a post yesterday but I thought that today would be better, because... Christmas. ^^

A friend of mine showed me an interesting reddit post the other day. Look to the far left! It's good to see Krystal appearing on more and more of these posts that are addressed to Nintendo and their community. When I saw it yesterday it was at 23000 up votes it has now effectively doubled since then and is leveling off around 42000 up votes, happy to see some seemingly forgotten characters on there as well like RIdley and King K.Rool.

Low Contact Ending: Krystal defeats General Scales, obtaining the last keystone and repairing the world. But as Scales chokes out his last, he declares "he" has obtained the energy he needs and Krystal will regret making an enemy out of "him", dying before Krystal can find out who "he" is. As the Dinosaurs celebrate the defeat of the Sharpclaws, Krystal wonders if there's worse to come while Tricky assures her if there is, they'll be ready.

Mid Contact Ending: Same as before but as Krystal ponders if worse is to come, Tricky points out a flock of giant metal Cloudrunners approaching. Krystal communication device suddenly picks up voices. "Looks like we missed all the fun." "Just in time for the party though." "Oh boy, a party! Do you think they have cake?" "It's Dinosaur Planet Slippy, if they've got cake it's made of ferns or something."

Direct Contact Ending: If Krystal activates all the beacons, the story shifts significantly, as General Pepper calls in Star Fox, forcing General Scales's backer to reveal himself. From here General Scales is instead the Penultimate Boss and the final boss is the giant floating head of (drum roll please) Andross. Andross protects himself with the stolen power of the Krazoa, siphoned from the planet so Krystal and the Dinosaurs on the ground have to sabotage them, while Star Fox keeps him busy. Bonus: Activating all the Beacons grants Krystal a blaster which has unlimited ammo and a fast fire rate at the cost of low damage and a cooldown.
I really am a fan of the idea of difficulty scaling based off of what you do in-game. Like activating beacons and getting powerful reinforcements to the fray. Maybe it would be too difficult to beat the game with all beacons activated on the first time through and make the game have a newgame+ option kinda like dark souls or some older JRPG's. I have always been a sucker for NG+ in games! Maybe we can have stronger power-ups on the next play-through or new levels of "badass-itude" on sub-sequent playthroughs. Either way... I really loved your game ideas!

Anyways! Merry Christmas you guys! I hope you had a wonderful Christmas day! ^^
 

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
4,743
Location
Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
I really am a fan of the idea of difficulty scaling based off of what you do in-game. Like activating beacons and getting powerful reinforcements to the fray. Maybe it would be too difficult to beat the game with all beacons activated on the first time through and make the game have a newgame+ option kinda like dark souls or some older JRPG's. I have always been a sucker for NG+ in games! Maybe we can have stronger power-ups on the next play-through or new levels of "badass-itude" on sub-sequent playthroughs. Either way... I really loved your game ideas!
Anyways! Merry Christmas you guys! I hope you had a wonderful Christmas day! ^^
Starfox 64 (and, by extension, Zero) was very much about choosing your own route, with clear difficulty variation depending on the path you chose. Carrying that player control over to a less episodic game like Adventures would help keep a slightly more consistent feel across the series' two genres, whilst adding potential replay value to the latter.

Of course, 64 and Zero also ran out of real reply value after just a few runs and relied heavily on entirely self-imposed challenges to keep them fun but that was just laziness and an area in which Adventures could really up the level of polish.

It already had a secrets shop. All that would be needed would be to have that shop contain minor gameplay tweaks (less health, more health, more damage, faster attacks, whatever) that could be purchased with your (what was it, gold scarabs?) but only activated when you started a new game. Make that clear in the shop and make most of the McGuffins end game items, with too few available to purchase everything in a single run. Then you've got actual replay value.

Hell, worst comes to the worst and we can't change the story, throw in alternate character costumes as purchasable new game plus, too. Have Krystal, James and Slippy (others too if you'd like) available that way, with no need to write them into the plot.
 
Last edited:

Smokey21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
195
Starfox 64 (and, by extension, Zero) was very much about choosing your own route, with clear difficulty variation depending on the path you chose. Carrying that player control over to a less episodic game like Adventures would help keep a slightly more consistent feel across the series' two genres, whilst adding potential replay value to the latter.

Of course, 64 and Zero also ran out of real reply value after just a few runs and relied heavily on entirely self-imposed challenges to keep them fun but that was just laziness and an area in which Adventures could really up the level of polish.

It already had a secrets shop. All that would be needed would be to have that shop contain minor gameplay tweaks (less health, more health, more damage, faster attacks, whatever) that could be purchased with your (what was it, gold scarabs?) but only activated when you started a new game. Make that clear in the shop and make most of the McGuffins end game items, with too few available to purchase everything in a single run. Then you've got actual replay value.

Hell, worst comes to the worst and we can't change the story, throw in alternate character costumes as purchasable new game plus, too. Have Krystal, James and Slippy (others too if you'd like) available that way, with no need to write them into the plot.
I agree! But Zero's scaling difficulties really didn't matter, at least not in the way 64's paths did. What happened in Zero if you failed enough was that there was an invincibility mode that automatically toggles if you failed enough in the game(which I thought was a terrible idea when it was unveiled at e3 lol). An adventures styled game that focused more on the "gameplay" aspect instead of the automated staff combo system we got with the original would be a welcome sight at least in my eyes, plus I feel like it's been too long since we've had a game like that in the franchise to begin with and it has a big enough following to merit a sequel or remake imo.

Yeah Zero and 64 did run out of replay value pretty quickly for me at least, but I was able to stay with 64 much longer due to it having a decent multiplayer mode attached to the game, which I feel is something Zero was severely lacking. many people loved Assault's multiplayer mode as did I haha. The self-imposed challenge thing along with high score counts won't keep me going by itself. In hindsight, maybe if Zero didn't have gyro-wing missions I would have cared more about the high scores on certain paths.

Yeah I don't think it had a secret shop Per Se, but what it did have was "cheat tokens" that unlocked menu content and other Easter eggs, I feel like they were going to do more but development for that game was obviously so rushed. But I think I understand what you're saying... kinda like how the "Tales of" series uses "grade" to use in a secret shop that pops up after the credits for every one of their games and they have perks like keeping items and skills/equipment on next play-through or deal double damage while taking double damage as well on the next play-through. I always liked that system of doing things and am surprised how few games use a system like it.

Hah I like the idea of an aesthetic character play-through that doesn't affect the story at all. I don't think that's been done? Or I can't think of a game where something like that's been done. haha
 

Tortilla Noggin

Smash Obsessed
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
20,726
many people loved Assault's multiplayer mode as did I haha.
Honestly, if they brought that back as a separate thing in its own right, with added online-play, I would happily buy it. :laugh:

Hah I like the idea of an aesthetic character play-through that doesn't affect the story at all. I don't think that's been done? Or I can't think of a game where something like that's been done. haha
Super Mario 3D Land does this with Luigi, if memory serves - assuming that it counts, here.
 

Smokey21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
195
Honestly, if they brought that back as a separate thing in its own right, with added online-play, I would happily buy it. :laugh:
Absolutely! I have hundreds of hours on assaults multiplayer. Exponentially more than I spent on its single player! Lol *high five*

I actually wanted to verify that Krystal’s staff Rumor as well as general scales and general pepper as characters were actually rumors for myself so I had an excuse to do 1000+ games to unlock everything. Sadly once you unlocked everything there really wasn’t much to do besides tinker with other modes and do silly things like try to kill each other off other peoples arwing wings or your own :p. But that is pretty fun! Lol

Super Mario 3D Land does this with Luigi, if memory serves - assuming that it counts, here
It totally counts! Looks like it was a 3ds game which means I wouldn’t have played it sadly. I never owned a 3ds as I was mostly console/pc gamer. I did play Super Mario Land though when I was like 4. :laugh:
 
Last edited:

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
4,743
Location
Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
It totally counts! Looks like it was a 3ds game which means I wouldn’t have played it sadly. I never owned a 3ds as I was mostly console/pc gamer. I did play Super Mario Land though when I was like 4. :laugh:
The Super Mario Galaxy series had Luigi used in the same way but he definitely affected gameplay there. I don't know if he did in 3D Land.

The whole idea was very much based on the idea of combining whatever nonsense Adventures did for gameplay extending extras already with what actually gets me to replay RPGs. Which was, indeed, that grade system. I have actual months clocked on Tales of Symphonia alone.

Linking grade to hidden items (cheat tokens, golden scarabs, whatever you want to call them) instead of performance would be more in keeping with the original game (being made in a classic Nintendo and Rare style) and it would promote exploration over farming. I would, however, like to suggest that they be reobtainable each playthrough to keep players from getting all the shop content in a single 100% run and to make it so that anyone, with enough dedication, could get anything.

Procedurally generated hiding spots or ones that players could memorize? I have no idea.
 

Smokey21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
195
The Super Mario Galaxy series had Luigi used in the same way but he definitely affected gameplay there. I don't know if he did in 3D Land.

The whole idea was very much based on the idea of combining whatever nonsense Adventures did for gameplay extending extras already with what actually gets me to replay RPGs. Which was, indeed, that grade system. I have actual months clocked on Tales of Symphonia alone.

Linking grade to hidden items (cheat tokens, golden scarabs, whatever you want to call them) instead of performance would be more in keeping with the original game (being made in a classic Nintendo and Rare style) and it would promote exploration over farming. I would, however, like to suggest that they be reobtainable each playthrough to keep players from getting all the shop content in a single 100% run and to make it so that anyone, with enough dedication, could get anything.

Procedurally generated hiding spots or ones that players could memorize? I have no idea.
Ahhh I played Super Mario Galaxy, and I do remember being able to play as luigi in that as well! And yes... gameplay is definitely affected when you play as him... he jumps a little higher and moves a little different. Were his jump combos different as well? I don't remember that much about it... lol it's been a while. xD

Yeah I loved that game-play system in the "Tales of" series, the grade system is very innovative and I'm surprised that people don't utilize it more in the gaming industry. It is actually my main draw to the "Tales of" games besides every one of them having a secret dungeon with a secret ending attached to them usually, which I think would also be cool in a game setting like Star Fox Adventures. And I totally played Symphonia to death as well... don't know if I would say I have "months" of playtime on it, but definitely over 300 hours... Usually in order to fully 100% those games you had to put in 400+ hours on them with at least 5 play-throughs. I love that kind of longevity in a game! haha

Yeah I like your idea of Golden Scarabs better than what was actually used and felt incomplete in the game... kinda like the cheeses from perfect dark if you know what those were! :). and yeah the items being reobtainable would fall in line with the grade system in a similar sense that there's nearly no way that you can get everything in the secret shop in your first playthrough... like maybe we can have it so theres a very expensive item in it that makes it so more "Golden Scarab's" are generated on the next playthrough(think like double scarabs or triple similar to double or triple grade in the "Tales of" games), or a secret "mini-game" that is unlocked on the next play-through with a chance to win a bunch of them!

I would probably go with generated hiding spots if I had to choose between the two. That way there's still a sense of exploration.
 

Guybrush20X6

Creator of Lego Theory
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
15,882
NNID
Guybrush20X6
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
The first New Super Mario Bros (the only one where that "new" wasn't ironic) had a code you could input to play as Luigi too but it didn't change anything gameplay wise, only that when you ended levels you got a charming "Yay for me, Luigi!" instead.

One thing I'm debating internally for SFA: Remake, what should Krystal's story before Dinosaur Planet be? Should she have been there for a while, explaining how she knows the language or should she have just gotten there and say, her ship got shot down, justifying tutorials?
 

Freduardo

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
2,341
The first New Super Mario Bros (the only one where that "new" wasn't ironic) had a code you could input to play as Luigi too but it didn't change anything gameplay wise, only that when you ended levels you got a charming "Yay for me, Luigi!" instead.

One thing I'm debating internally for SFA: Remake, what should Krystal's story before Dinosaur Planet be? Should she have been there for a while, explaining how she knows the language or should she have just gotten there and say, her ship got shot down, justifying tutorials?
Probably have the tutorial level.

Especially if you throw in an Easter egg unlockable on later playthoughs.
 

Mr. Brownstone

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Messages
45
One thing I'm debating internally for SFA: Remake, what should Krystal's story before Dinosaur Planet be? Should she have been there for a while, explaining how she knows the language or should she have just gotten there and say, her ship got shot down, justifying tutorials?

SFA's manual specifically states that Krystal came to the planet due to the distress call sent by the EarthWalker, meaning that she hasn't been there for too long. It also hints that she may find the truth regarding Cerinia there. That's what a SFA reimagining (if it ever happens) should focus on when it comes to her character, combining her own plot with the main plot and Andross (lost tribe on Venom etc.). That way, she would have a much better "start" in the franchise. I mean, having a believable connection to the main villain is always a good thing for a newly introduced character, and it would also strengthen the bond between her and Fox. Oh, and when it comes to Krystal speaking Saurian, there are other possibilities than her being raised there (which according to the manual isn't true anyways): She either learned their language through her telepathy or Cerinia and Sauria had indeed some ties. Not to mention that Slippy was able to translate for Fox as well. I actually like the idea of her ship getting shot down or stolen by the SharpClaw. The ship that Krystal uses to board the Great Fox at the end is the same one the SharpClaw used to drop off Tricky on Ice Mountain. So it's possible they first stole it and then gave it back to her after they were freed from Scales' and Andross' tyranny, or it was theirs all along and they merely gave it to her as a present since her own ship got destroyed. Either way, I'd love to see Krystal's backstory on Cerinia as well as her journey through space before she arrived on Sauria and met the CloudRunner. Needless to say that I don't want to see her getting captured again ;) There's no reason to make Fox the only playable character in a reimagining while having Krystal only in a tutorial. There was an early SFA trailer showing even Slippy and Peppy on the surface. They were probably never supposed to be playable, though. I'd still say: The more playable characters, the better! :p It's not like the SF series has too many characters to be put in one game. That's one of the few things Command handled quite well actually. They could even throw Star Wolf into the mix, showing them in some sort of epilogue after the Sauria Crisis. We still know hardly anything about Panther and how/when he joined them. Seems like a SFA reimagining could unveil many things and make the SF universe grow and progress, to the point where actual worldbuilding can be implemented, which hasn't really been done yet. The series certainly has the potential. All they have to do is use it...
 

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
4,743
Location
Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
The cornerian military ship is not unique to her and nor is it representative of her character. Having her enter battle through her own, uniquely pterodactyl-based arwing variant would be a nice touch, though, and it wouldn't be out of place as her Final Smash. But giving that to her and not giving Falco a clone of it would be highly insulting to him.

Personally, I feel like the way assault used her telepathy as justification for more shields is what's most telling of her combat style. She's weakish, with a defensive focus but has the ability to dash in and get a good combo off when the opportunity presents itself.
 
Last edited:

Smokey21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
195
The first New Super Mario Bros (the only one where that "new" wasn't ironic) had a code you could input to play as Luigi too but it didn't change anything gameplay wise, only that when you ended levels you got a charming "Yay for me, Luigi!" instead.

One thing I'm debating internally for SFA: Remake, what should Krystal's story before Dinosaur Planet be? Should she have been there for a while, explaining how she knows the language or should she have just gotten there and say, her ship got shot down, justifying tutorials?
I like to think that if they ever did a "re-imagining" of adventures that Sauria was a special sort of training ground for Cerinians and that Krystal's staff was found on Sauria as some sort of Krazoan relic, or maybe it's just Cerinian and interfaces with everything on Cerinia by coincidence, or maybe it was created on Cerinia to be used on Sauria. Either way, I think her staff is a big part of her character and that it would be a key component in figuring out a huge part of her backstory. I like the idea that Cerinia could have ties with Sauria, maybe as a place Cerinians went as a rite of passage of sorts. Nintendo probably wouldn't do something like that, but it's fun to think about. :laugh:

SFA's manual specifically states that Krystal came to the planet due to the distress call sent by the EarthWalker, meaning that she hasn't been there for too long. It also hints that she may find the truth regarding Cerinia there. That's what a SFA reimagining (if it ever happens) should focus on when it comes to her character, combining her own plot with the main plot and Andross (lost tribe on Venom etc.). That way, she would have a much better "start" in the franchise. I mean, having a believable connection to the main villain is always a good thing for a newly introduced character, and it would also strengthen the bond between her and Fox. Oh, and when it comes to Krystal speaking Saurian, there are other possibilities than her being raised there (which according to the manual isn't true anyways): She either learned their language through her telepathy or Cerinia and Sauria had indeed some ties. Not to mention that Slippy was able to translate for Fox as well. I actually like the idea of her ship getting shot down or stolen by the SharpClaw. The ship that Krystal uses to board the Great Fox at the end is the same one the SharpClaw used to drop off Tricky on Ice Mountain. So it's possible they first stole it and then gave it back to her after they were freed from Scales' and Andross' tyranny, or it was theirs all along and they merely gave it to her as a present since her own ship got destroyed. Either way, I'd love to see Krystal's backstory on Cerinia as well as her journey through space before she arrived on Sauria and met the CloudRunner. Needless to say that I don't want to see her getting captured again ;) There's no reason to make Fox the only playable character in a reimagining while having Krystal only in a tutorial. There was an early SFA trailer showing even Slippy and Peppy on the surface. They were probably never supposed to be playable, though. I'd still say: The more playable characters, the better! :p It's not like the SF series has too many characters to be put in one game. That's one of the few things Command handled quite well actually. They could even throw Star Wolf into the mix, showing them in some sort of epilogue after the Sauria Crisis. We still know hardly anything about Panther and how/when he joined them. Seems like a SFA reimagining could unveil many things and make the SF universe grow and progress, to the point where actual worldbuilding can be implemented, which hasn't really been done yet. The series certainly has the potential. All they have to do is use it...
I would love to see more nods to Cerinia hidden throughout the game in an adventures remake to kinda help tie Krystal into the story better. I think it would only help, because what we got really wasn't enough to go off. Also, I would totally believe that the ship was originally hers but upon her arrival to Sauria it got stolen(but how would the sharpclaws figure out how to pilot it after?). After all, who remembers fighting Sharpclaws in other Star Fox games, and by other games I mean assault because that's the only "true" sequel we got after adventures. And I totally agree with you on the sentiment that Krystal should not get captured again. That was a no-no. :rolleyes:
 

Guybrush20X6

Creator of Lego Theory
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
15,882
NNID
Guybrush20X6
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
No Krystal capture.

Even if she stays playable throughout that would mean *dramatic sting* forced stealth segment *~DUN-DUN-DUUUUUN!~*
 

Mr. Brownstone

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Messages
45
I like to think that if they ever did a "re-imagining" of adventures that Sauria was a special sort of training ground for Cerinians and that Krystal's staff was found on Sauria as some sort of Krazoan relic, or maybe it's just Cerinian and interfaces with everything on Cerinia by coincidence, or maybe it was created on Cerinia to be used on Sauria. Either way, I think her staff is a big part of her character and that it would be a key component in figuring out a huge part of her backstory. I like the idea that Cerinia could have ties with Sauria, maybe as a place Cerinians went as a rite of passage of sorts. Nintendo probably wouldn't do something like that, but it's fun to think about. :laugh:

Her staff is yet another mystery. The engraved symbols can also be found in various places on Sauria. Same goes for the symbols on her outfit. Not to mention that the staff worked perfectly on Sauria. I still think that there were some ties between Cerinia and Sauria as Krystal was able to channel the Krazoa's power, which Andross was aware of, btw. It's also possible that Cerinia had a similar magical power source within its core. And yes, Nintendo will probably never mention Cerinia again. I'm not even sure if they still know about it :laugh:


I would love to see more nods to Cerinia hidden throughout the game in an adventures remake to kinda help tie Krystal into the story better. I think it would only help, because what we got really wasn't enough to go off. Also, I would totally believe that the ship was originally hers but upon her arrival to Sauria it got stolen(but how would the sharpclaws figure out how to pilot it after?). After all, who remembers fighting Sharpclaws in other Star Fox games, and by other games I mean assault because that's the only "true" sequel we got after adventures. And I totally agree with you on the sentiment that Krystal should not get captured again. That was a no-no. :rolleyes:

I'd say that space travel is a common thing in the SF universe. Sauria is no exception, especially after Andross' arrival. The EarthWalker on Dragon Rock seemed to know what robots and shield generators are. There was also this engineer in CloudRunner Fortress where they had magic-based technology. The weird thing is that the ThornTails were not familiar with technology. Didn't they even refer to Fox's Arwing as "metal bird" or something? Well, at least they know what metal is xD Oh, and what about all the ships, drones and explosive mines in Sauria's orbit? Did Andross put them there? Probably, but if any of the tribes had this kind of technology (maybe even before Andross' arrival), it would be the SharpClaw. Speaking of which, they were actually mentioned in one of the "hidden" Sauria conversations in Assault, but I know what you mean. It's surely possible that they tried fighting the Aparoids with their ships but then got wiped out, as Slippy put it. I guess you could say that Sauria has a certain degree of technology at their disposal. Scales even had a teleportation device on his belt. It's still kinda hard to determine Sauria's technological state as some things don't really add up, like why didn't they send an actual distress call instead of a telepathic one in Assault? Or was this kind of technology (provided that they still had it at that point) exclusively available to the SharpClaw? Nothing but questions, and there's so much more that needs to be explained. That's why a reimagining is needed ;)


Edit: Some other things regarding Sauria's technology just came to mind. Drakor, for instance. I know that in the original Dinosaur Planet he was supposed to be the one pulling the strings instead of Andross, but due to the transition he became a non-speaking boss. Some people, including the SF-wiki (I think), consider him a bioweapon made by Andross. I'm not sure if we could really go that far but it's certainly an interesting approach. The other big thing that I totally forgot about are the Krazoa themselves, or rather their ability to control dark matter. That could potentially explain some things, like the warping on the planet. There's even a "theory" that the beam Krystal was pushed in consisted of dark matter. Same with her crystal prison. Mere assumptions, I know, but still worth mentioning.
 
Last edited:

Smokey21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
195
No Krystal capture.

Even if she stays playable throughout that would mean *dramatic sting* forced stealth segment *~DUN-DUN-DUUUUUN!~*
As long as this "forced stealth segment" doesn't involve a "gyro-wing" or similar styled approach I would be fine with it! :laugh:

Her staff is yet another mystery. The engraved symbols can also be found in various places on Sauria. Same goes for the symbols on her outfit. Not to mention that the staff worked perfectly on Sauria. I still think that there were some ties between Cerinia and Sauria as Krystal was able to channel the Krazoa's power, which Andross was aware of, btw. It's also possible that Cerinia had a similar magical power source within its core. And yes, Nintendo will probably never mention Cerinia again. I'm not even sure if they still know about it :laugh:
Yeah her symbols were always something interesting that you were able to see all around in the game, definitely something I noticed. And yeah Andross knowing about Krystal and her power is something I would like to see explored in a future title. Although, I would rather have a new baddie than Andross over the years he has kinda become a bitter taste in my mouth, at least in the sense of him being the big baddy at the end of the game. Also, they will probably disregard Cerinia's existence in the next game, you're probably right. It still is interesting to think about, as anything about Krystal's origins I find interesting. ^^
I'd say that space travel is a common thing in the SF universe. Sauria is no exception, especially after Andross' arrival. The EarthWalker on Dragon Rock seemed to know what robots and shield generators are. There was also this engineer in CloudRunner Fortress where they had magic-based technology. The weird thing is that the ThornTails were not familiar with technology. Didn't they even refer to Fox's Arwing as "metal bird" or something? Well, at least they know what metal is xD Oh, and what about all the ships, drones and explosive mines in Sauria's orbit? Did Andross put them there? Probably, but if any of the tribes had this kind of technology (maybe even before Andross' arrival), it would be the SharpClaw. Speaking of which, they were actually mentioned in one of the "hidden" Sauria conversations in Assault, but I know what you mean. It's surely possible that they tried fighting the Aparoids with their ships but then got wiped out, as Slippy put it. I guess you could say that Sauria has a certain degree of technology at their disposal. Scales even had a teleportation device on his belt. It's still kinda hard to determine Sauria's technological state as some things don't really add up, like why didn't they send an actual distress call instead of a telepathic one in Assault? Or was this kind of technology (provided that they still had it at that point) exclusively available to the SharpClaw? Nothing but questions, and there's so much more that needs to be explained. That's why a reimagining is needed ;)
Yeah but what I was saying was that you don't really see any more "Saurian" vessels after you see "Krystal's" ship after adventures as a game. Probably just bad writing on N's part or just wanting to try to forget about adventures. And I see what you're saying about Dragon Rock and all their experiments I suppose once you went there and rampaged all their towers and Drakor himself that you put Dragon Rock back into the stone age? lol. Also the Thorntail's seem to be the Amish of Star Fox adventures, you're absolutely right about that! :laugh:. Yeah Sauria's technological state is an enigma in itself that is hard to get into due to the very lacking amount of content there is to be had on the topic. Also I wasn't sure if Scale'd device was a teleporter or a cloaking device. or both? Either way he was an interesting baddie that was replaced by Andross who is seen in 90% of Star Fox games... that's something I also feel needs to change. And amen brother. I would love an adventures reimagining, anything but SF64 again lol.

Edit: Some other things regarding Sauria's technology just came to mind. Drakor, for instance. I know that in the original Dinosaur Planet he was supposed to be the one pulling the strings instead of Andross, but due to the transition he became a non-speaking boss. Some people, including the SF-wiki (I think), consider him a bioweapon made by Andross. I'm not sure if we could really go that far but it's certainly an interesting approach. The other big thing that I totally forgot about are the Krazoa themselves, or rather their ability to control dark matter. That could potentially explain some things, like the warping on the planet. There's even a "theory" that the beam Krystal was pushed in consisted of dark matter. Same with her crystal prison. Mere assumptions, I know, but still worth mentioning.
I would have liked anything BUT Andross being the main antagonist again... so Drakor would have been a welcome change, even having scales just be the main antagonist in the game is fine because there's just so much that could be done with that in the long run. And yeah the Krazoa are an interesting topic as well because you only really hear about them a few times in the game and it's usually when you're going to get the spirits in the game. All we really know about them is from the puzzles they left behind and little hidden articles throughout the game. They probably used dark matter to get to other planets which would kind of explain the connection to Cerinia? Either way this stuff only leads to more questions.
 

Mr. Brownstone

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Messages
45
Probably just bad writing on N's part
At the end of the day, it always comes down to the bad writing :laugh:


It still is interesting to think about, as anything about Krystal's origins I find interesting. ^^
Absolutely. It always fascinated me that even though Krystal was never supposed to be a SF character, she still has a lot to give in order to make the series more interesting. She and her people can take the lore to a whole new level. They could really be the key to all of this. I don't know if you've read the 1993 Power Comic yet, but the lost tribe on Venom certainly gives me some Cerinia vibes. I know that the comic is not canon, but the tribe was still mentioned in the 64 strategy guide, so it still exists. Back then, they probably didn't want to go any further with Venom's history, but now, the canon contains more material that can be used to put it all together. And IMO, Krystal/Cerinia/Krazoa are still the only existing things that could believably flesh out the stuff from back in the day. That's quite remarkable actually, as all of these things come from a game that was never supposed to be a part of the series in the first place. I'm glad that we actually have Cerinia in the series as it, despite the bad writing, at least created a solid foundation for a great backstory (and not only for Krystal). Other SF characters, who were not "pushed" into the series, don't even have that. I know that Miyamoto doesn't care too much about the story and all that, but I still hope that Zero somewhat changed his mind, just like it did with many of the fans. We can hope, right? ;)


Oh, and while we're on the subject of Drakor, have you seen the new talking portraits for SF Event Horizon? They look absolutely amazing. A couple of months ago, he also posted the ones for the main cast.
 
Last edited:

Smokey21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
195
Absolutely. It always fascinated me that even though Krystal was never supposed to be a SF character, she still has a lot to give in order to make the series more interesting. She and her people can take the lore to a whole new level. They could really be the key to all of this.
Agreed! I just hope we don't get a new Krystal-less game in the future because someone still has their head in the past. Despite the massive amount of fans that want to see something out of Cerinia/Sauria again that are out there as well, just far less vocal about this kind of thing sadly.
I don't know if you've read the 1993 Power Comic yet, but the lost tribe on Venom certainly gives me some Cerinia vibes. I know that the comic is not canon, but the tribe was still mentioned in the 64 strategy guide, so it still exists. Back then, they probably didn't want to go any further with Venom's history, but now, the canon contains more material that can be used to put it all together.
Indeed I have! Multiple times actually! I read it in between every SF game that I play to kinda keep it fresh and maintain hype just before new titles. And I actually never thought about the possibility of the lost tribe being Cerinian, that is a cool thought actually and they could spin that in a way possibly in a future title if Nintendo pays as close attention to these details as us fans do. We all know the chances of them noticing something like that though sadly.
And IMO, Krystal/Cerinia/Krazoa are still the only existing things that could believably flesh out the stuff from back in the day. That's quite remarkable actually, as all of these things come from a game that was never supposed to be a part of the series in the first place. I'm glad that we actually have Cerinia in the series as it, despite the bad writing, at least created a solid foundation for a great backstory (and not only for Krystal).
Exactly! I don't know why Nintendo is so afraid to acknowledge the fact that it wouldn't be hard to fix many huge issues with the Franchise if they only acknowledged what has been in front of their faces for 15 years now. Atm everyone who sees Star Fox now can only think of the 64 version of the game because that's been given to us four times(SF SNES, SF64, SF64 remake, SF Zero) out of seven games. No wonder people didn't want to get Zero(bad control argument aside)
Other SF characters, who were not "pushed" into the series, don't even have that. I know that Miyamoto doesn't care too much about the story and all that, but I still hope that Zero somewhat changed his mind, just like it did with many of the fans. We can hope, right? ;)
God I hope so. He seems to think the only game that exists in the franchise is Star Fox 64, but there are many people that want to see a different game, and by different I mean not Lylat wars again. Hell I would be happy with a prequel at some point, just not now since Krystal hasn't been in a game for 12 years and her latest appearance(non-cameo) was far from graceful.
Oh, and while we're on the subject of Drakor, have you seen the new talking portraits for SF Event Horizon? They look absolutely amazing. A couple of months ago, he also posted the ones for the main cast.
I actually did... they were posted in the Krystal archive discord last night and I saw them when I was heading to bed. And I have also seen the old character portraits as well. I kinda like UndyingNephilim's version of Krystal as well and I like how she always has her staff with her, as it should be. Also, not forgotten like they did starting on assault. They seriously should have had her staff as an unlockable multiplayer item lol. I actually found a pretty good xpadder setup for my gamecube controller where I got it so the rtrigger and ltriggers bank left and right and the 2nd rtrigger deployed countermeasures. was hard to setup though because you have to get those analogs JUST right lol.
 

Tortilla Noggin

Smash Obsessed
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
20,726
Indeed I have! Multiple times actually! I read it in between every SF game that I play to kinda keep it fresh and maintain hype just before new titles. And I actually never thought about the possibility of the lost tribe being Cerinian, that is a cool thought actually and they could spin that in a way possibly in a future title if Nintendo pays as close attention to these details as us fans do. We all know the chances of them noticing something like that though sadly.
They do pay attention, so it could happen. :bee:

After all, they've canonised other elements from the US comics before. The planet Papetoon was made official in Star Fox Command, for example - it appeared in the "Fox & Falco's Faulty Victory" ending, and is the planet that Fox and Falco head for and live on for a time, before becoming G-Zero racers.

Atm everyone who sees Star Fox now can only think of the 64 version of the game because that's been given to us four times(SF SNES, SF64, SF64 remake, SF Zero) out of seven games.
To be fair, the original Star Fox is nothing like Star Fox 64. ;) Star Fox 64 has only been given to use three times.

Whilst folks like me largely aren't heard from on this topic, I can tell you that people back in the day, before there was widespread public internet access, found it off-putting - the gameplay is very different (the original SNES game was more about challenge, whereas 64 is about being super-easy for score-chasing and repeated playthroughs - even in the unlockable "Expert" mode), and the characters and world-building are all completely different.

When Star Fox 64 came along, they actually threw out everyone's original SNES backstories, even including those of all of the planets and features of the star-system, changed all of the characters' ages and personalities and even some of their names (Fox McCloud Sr. became James McCloud and was someone completely different, for example), and completely changed Corneria and its history and place in the Lylat System. The original Corneria was mostly a farming planet, and had a tiny defense-force that wasn't even really a proper military - that was why they had to hire an outside group who were famously good pilots, because nobody in Corneria's forces was up to the task of flying the prototype Arwings, and there wasn't any time to train them for it.
 
Last edited:

Smokey21

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
195
They do pay attention, so it could happen. :bee:

After all, they've canonised other elements from the US comics before. The planet Papetoon was made official in Star Fox Command, for example - it appeared in the "Fox & Falco's Faulty Victory" ending, and is the planet that Fox and Falco head for and live on for a time, before becoming G-Zero racers.


To be fair, the original Star Fox is nothing like Star Fox 64. ;) Star Fox 64 has only been given to use three times.

Whilst folks like me largely aren't heard from on this topic, I can tell you that people back in the day, before there was widespread public internet access, found it off-putting - the gameplay is very different (the original SNES game was more about challenge, whereas 64 is about being super-easy for score-chasing and repeated playthroughs - even in the unlockable "Expert" mode), and the characters and world-building are all completely different.

When Star Fox 64 came along, they actually threw out everyone's original SNES backstories, even including those of all of the planets and features of the star-system, changed all of the characters' ages and personalities and even some of their names (Fox McCloud Sr. became James McCloud and was someone completely different, for example), and completely changed Corneria and its history and place in the Lylat System. The original Corneria was mostly a farming planet, and had a tiny defense-force that wasn't even really a proper military - that was why they had to hire an outside group who were famously good pilots, because nobody in Corneria's forces was up to the task of flying the prototype Arwings, and there wasn't any time to train them for it.
I really hope so! And I knew that papetoon was in command. I just have so many reason not to want to play it despite owning it on my Wii u. Hopefully papetoon will show up in more games after command because atm it seems like they’re ignoring anything past 64 after Command came out. Although it was nice seeing some love of the comic in command though at least.

I can’t really agree that 64 and SNES aren’t the same game(or at least very similar still) because the end result is still fighting a giant floating space head on Venom. Sure the gameplay elements were different but the story was more or less... the same. Yes I agree that it has differences, and I was aware of those, but it wasn’t enough... at least in my eyes(and I’m sure many more) to be a separable distinction from a 64 clone.
 

Tortilla Noggin

Smash Obsessed
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
20,726
I really hope so! And I knew that papetoon was in command. I just have so many reason not to want to play it despite owning it on my Wii u. Hopefully papetoon will show up in more games after command because atm it seems like they’re ignoring anything past 64 after Command came out. Although it was nice seeing some love of the comic in command though at least.
There was also the fact that, in early builds of Star Fox 2, the character labelled as "Lady" looked to be a canonised version of Fara Phoenix from the comics, too. It certainly seems that they've always had some leaning towards considering suitable inclusions from them, which is nice.

I'd certainly like to see how they would depict Papetoon nowadays, since they showed nothing but the bar in Command. :laugh:

Sure the gameplay elements were different but the story was more or less... the same.
It really isn't, though - the motivations for everyone are different, Fox isn't a whining child, Peppy isn't a shouting old man, Slippy is simply a mechanic who's not the greatest pilot (instead of being depicted as a child-genius inspired by the likes of Battle of the Planets), and Andross is actually relatable, having been the smart child who grew up feeling underappreciated because of his peers being leagues behind him, and then carrying that into adulthood where it became destructive, and even more so after he found that his adult peers, whose council banished him, were no better. Corneria didn't create the problem in the same way, and none of the circumstances were the same as in 64.

Yes I agree that it has differences, and I was aware of those, but it wasn’t enough... at least in my eyes(and I’m sure many more) to be a separable distinction from a 64 clone.
But how can the originator be a clone of the watered-down reboot of itself? :p

They're either all clones of Star Fox for the SNES, which it's clear from the gameplay that none of them are, or they're all remakes of Star Fox 64, which seems to be the case.
 
Last edited:

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
4,743
Location
Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
When Star Fox 64 came along, they actually threw out everyone's original SNES backstories, even including those of all of the planets and features of the star-system, changed all of the characters' ages and personalities and even some of their names (Fox McCloud Sr. became James McCloud and was someone completely different, for example), and completely changed Corneria and its history and place in the Lylat System. The original Corneria was mostly a farming planet, and had a tiny defense-force that wasn't even really a proper military - that was why they had to hire an outside group who were famously good pilots, because nobody in Corneria's forces was up to the task of flying the prototype Arwings, and there wasn't any time to train them for it.
To be fair, “Fox Sr” is probably the dumbest, laziest thing that they could have called him. Good riddance to that.
The rest, I mostly can't speak for, Having very little recollection of the SNES.

I will say, though, that I like the idea of justifying team Star Fox's inclusion in such a way. It wasn't really explained in 64 and, while it didn't need to be to enjoy the game, actually maintaining a consistent, fleshed out and believable lore would definitely help push the exploration of different routes and even games within the series.

Of course, while I'm all for adding extra little details that help tidy things up like this, it does seem a little odd to me that they would have all these high tech spacecraft in production with no hope of using or even properly them.

From some brief research, however, it seems that that was Fara Phoenix's exact purpose. She's there, planes work, things go wrong, team of mercenaries have to help out. Do your job right and you might even get a new helper/love interest. Simple stuff that really would have been better off as canon than as a comic book side story.

Or perhaps the main force are busy defending an off-world military base under Bill. No more love interest element (presumably) but otherwise the same result. An explanation and a sidequest with a legitimate reward.

Only issue then would be why Corneria's forces have a major base elsewhere.
 

Tortilla Noggin

Smash Obsessed
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
20,726
To be fair, “Fox Sr” is probably the dumbest, laziest thing that they could have called him. Good riddance to that.
The rest, I mostly can't speak for, Having very little recollection of the SNES.
I actually preferred it, because it fits better with the fact that Fox and his father were clearly from a "traditonal" military family, where names seem to get passed down like that more often. That notion also fits in with how Fox handled the loss of his father in the SNES continuity (he accepted it and continued living), as compared to the N64 one (he didn't).

Creating James McCloud, who seems to be named after Captain Kirk, was seemingly the start of creating a pile of verbatim (and, to me, shallow) pastiches of scenes from other sci-fi productions, which was something that the original SNES games didn't do - those used some scenes-a-faire, but that's down to genre trappings, and they didn't outright ape entire scenes like Star Fox 64's story-scenes were often composed of. It always felt like Star Fox 64 couldn't be its own thing, because it was constantly remaking scenes from Gundam, Independence Day, and so on, and making unsubtle references to them (James and Bill spring immediately to mind, here) in a similar fashion.

I will say, though, that I like the idea of justifying team Star Fox's inclusion in such a way. It wasn't really explained in 64 and, while it didn't need to be to enjoy the game, actually maintaining a consistent, fleshed out and believable lore would definitely help push the exploration of different routes and even games within the series.
They tried to explain it in Star Fox 64's intro, but the problem is, it just doesn't mesh with what the reboot changed Corneria into, and it comes off a bit dissonant.

Where Corneria was a farming-driven planet with a small defense-force in the original continuity*, it was turned into a highly-militarised one in the Star Fox 64 continuity. Thus, calling in a team of four specialised outside mercenaries and saying that it's because their army alone can't do the job makes no sense there.

*Back in the day, when I was a kid, this caused people to easily draw comparisons to British pilots and "Dad's Army" defending a small island nation in World War II, because it was a direct parallel to the events in the SNES game. This was helped along by the fact that it was common knowledge, even back then, that Andross is called Andolf in Japan. (I personally found this to be an interesting motivation to learn more about the topic.)

Of course, while I'm all for adding extra little details that help tidy things up like this, it does seem a little odd to me that they would have all these high tech spacecraft in production with no hope of using or even properly them.
This made sense, too - you could easily infer from the information that was given that the intent was for the development of this technology to improve the reach of Corneria's tiny defense-force (since the Arwings are nimble and are capable of interplanetary travel), but that they intended to train the planet's own pilots for it once the new ships were completed. Andross taking over and enslaving the people of the not-barren (though polluted-by-Andross) SNES version of the planet Venom, and forcing them to serve in the army that he'd amassed, was obviously something that occurred before the ships and the training could be finalised. And it made sense to call in a group of specialists (billed as space adventurers in the original series, rather than the 64-lineage's mercenaries) for this.

It's worth pointing out that SNES General Pepper, unlike his N64-lineage equivalent, also wasn't the ineffectual fuddy-duddy who more-or-less goes to the Star Fox Team for everything even though he appears to be part of the authorities on a very militarised planet - which is so militarised to the point of seemingly having enormous cities that plaster his face everywhere. The original Corneria only really had one major city, and that was the one where Andross' experiments caused disasters that killed inhabitants there, resulting in his banishment. Meanwhile, SNES General Pepper was a typical military man who was often more focussed on making sure that the team he'd hired brought back his precious prototypes safely, than he was on their safety. He was a bit meaner, and he seemed much more like the sort of person who would be tasked with running the planet's defense-force - he was more believable by far, I always felt. :p (This also very much stuck out in people's minds, back in the day, in conjunction with the World War II parallels noted above.)
 
Last edited:

Gagnetar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
392
So with the smash rumor mill firing up again with Ehovash and Emily talking about smash deluxe for 2018, and the full january direct being rumored to have been delayed for February that puts it awfully close to the SF 25th anniversary at the 21st so I figure we could revive the thread again. If we do see a SF title it could reinvigorate interest for Krystal/Wolf for the inevitable DLC cycle, even if it's just the port there's no real reason not to continue character additions. It's still totally possible they made it into the game already due to ballot picks of course. Oh I've also made substantial upgrades to the Krystal Mod https://krystalarchive.com/fangames/falemirous-half-life-2-alyx-mod-version-2/
 

Guybrush20X6

Creator of Lego Theory
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
15,882
NNID
Guybrush20X6
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
So with the smash rumor mill firing up again with Ehovash and Emily talking about smash deluxe for 2018, and the full january direct being rumored to have been delayed for February that puts it awfully close to the SF 25th anniversary at the 21st so I figure we could revive the thread again. If we do see a SF title it could reinvigorate interest for Krystal/Wolf for the inevitable DLC cycle, even if it's just the port there's no real reason not to continue character additions. It's still totally possible they made it into the game already due to ballot picks of course. Oh I've also made substantial upgrades to the Krystal Mod https://krystalarchive.com/fangames/falemirous-half-life-2-alyx-mod-version-2/
Where'd you hear those rumors?

One thing about Krystal in Smash though, we've had a lot of movet ideas but no solid play-style ideas. In my head Krystal's a mid-range character who lacks some power but makes up for it in being able to poke out people from a distance.
 
Top Bottom