Teaching my friend the djc

[Kati]

I play casually with a Ness/Mario main. Having never learned djc myself, I'm wondering how I should go about teaching him it. Just giving him a video won't work, I need advice that I can use while I'm playing with him. He knows how to wavedash, and is aware of shffling, but doesn't do the latter consistantly.

Is there one aerial that yields notable results fast with the djc?

What's the l-cancel timing like for a djc..? one is already so close to the ground...

Thanks

 

[Deleted member]

I play casually with a Ness/Mario main. Having never learned djc myself, I'm wondering how I should go about teaching him it. Just giving him a video won't work, I need advice that I can use while I'm playing with him. He knows how to wavedash, and is aware of shffling, but doesn't do the latter consistantly.

Is there one aerial that yields notable results fast with the djc?

What's the l-cancel timing like for a djc..? one is already so close to the ground...

Thanks

DJC Bair. If you don't L-cancel it you get a horridly long 'get up' animation. If you DJC it close to the ground, you can pull it out in less than a second.
To teach him, tell him to double TAP the X button on his controller so that he shorthops and then do a backwards aerial. Make sure he practices short hoping A LOT before learning how to DJC.

Watch this MOFO match and see how fast his DJC Bairs come out.​

Also, I do not suggest playing Ness in Melee. I do highly suggest playing NUS in Project: M however. Same principles of DJCs from all the other games (minus Brawl) apply in P:M.

 

[Kati]

Thank you! he can definitely short hop with no problem. Is the c-stick ever used for aerial inputs in this case or just the A button?

 

[Deleted member]

Thank you! he can definitely short hop with no problem. Is the c-stick ever used for aerial inputs in this case or just the A button?

I never ever use the C-stick for aerial inputs. If you must, you can use Z as an alternative, but in all I suggest using the A button.

 

[Kati]

Z? fascinating. He'll do fine with A though.

 

[Spiffykins]

I think it's important to practice a few different ways of doing things like this. This is partially because everyone finds different ways more natural, but also because there are a few minor tricks you can do much more easily if you do it one way or another, for example retreating djc aerials which may require a 'clawed' double jump input, djc + fast fall down air is much easier and precise if the c stick is involved, and with PM's unique mechanics you also get the snappiest, fastest djc every time if you use tap jump to input the double jump, unlike X/Y which can be tricky to release quick enough to get the same result.

 

[GMaster171]

Imo you should use the c-stick as much as possible when doing aerials. It allows you to keep full movement in one direction while doing an aerial in any direction you want. For things like fair/bair its easier to use A (unless you are moving the other way) due to the fact you will already be holding the way you are doing the aerial, but if you, say, want to do a DJC uair while drifting as far to the right as possible, doing X->X->c-stick is the only way. Any other way wont travel as far (tho they all travel a decent amount)

 

[Deleted member]

I think it all depends on how you hold your controller. If you hold your controller like a ****** (like me), the Z-button method is out. I hold my controller with with what is known as the 'keyboard claw' or 'arcade grip'. It feels natural to me since I used to play games like Mahvel and Street Fighter.

 

[The_NZA]

As a Ness player, I'll attest to the comment that you'll find yourself using different button combinations to do different types of DJC. Personally, I mostly use the X->X->A button to do DJC's pristinely with my bairs and nairs. If I'm looking to juggle a spacie or do quick DJC uairs, I do X -> tapjump ->up A.

If I want to do full jumped moving uairs, I set my R button to Jump, and I use R, hold my analog stick completely to the right or left with my left hand, and use the cstick with my thumb to uair. I also sometimes use cstick to do DJC bairs, when I'm going straight up in place (like when I'm following up a successful dair popup).

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I find Tap Jump helps a lot for DJCing, but as a few have said, different combinations for different situations.

As for teaching, the way that helped me the most was uthrow -> uair -> re-grab on a dummy space animal (uthrow from 0%, for clarification). If you miss the DJC or the L-cancel, you'll most likely get a shield rather than the intended grab. Good practice tool for getting your timing down. Not to mention DJC uairs are generally the easiest to do consistently, at least for me.

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

A different question. I play Ness against most of my friends and I tend to do pretty well against them on neutral stages, winning or losing by a stock or two. But every time, once I start to lose, I switch to some random other character that I play and get destroyed. Even though I am capable of accomplishing risky things such as chasing my opponent off-stage and getting an awesome dair spike, or djc nair OoS, or dair tech chase followups, or even using PSI magnet. Any suggestions on how I can ease these things into my gameplay, or ways in which I can change my mindset so that I can be more daring and risky. Ness is by far my best character, but I don't ever have much faith when playing him. This might just be a lifestyle change that I need to make

 

[The_NZA]

A different question. I play Ness against most of my friends and I tend to do pretty well against them on neutral stages, winning or losing by a stock or two. But every time, once I start to lose, I switch to some random other character that I play and get destroyed. Even though I am capable of accomplishing risky things such as chasing my opponent off-stage and getting an awesome dair spike, or djc nair OoS, or dair tech chase followups, or even using PSI magnet. Any suggestions on how I can ease these things into my gameplay, or ways in which I can change my mindset so that I can be more daring and risky. Ness is by far my best character, but I don't ever have much faith when playing him. This might just be a lifestyle change that I need to make

I think the key with ness (as is true with almost every character) is focusing on one thing, committing to doing it no matter how well or badly it serves you until you are comfortable with it. SO for example, I once saw Eli play Ness in a video that was hyper aggressive close to the ground, one DJCFFL attack into another. After seeing it, I told myself I want to learn how to DJC that fast, that close to the ground. So for the next three hours of playtime, I stopped using magnet, and became more sparing with pkfire/flash, and I exclusively used DJC fast falled aerials.

Now, I didn't win every game with that style but focusing on it made my DJC's faster naturally. So that would be my advice.

Envision your training as a pyramid: the foundation is closer to the ground/more accessible but it also makes up a bigger part of the pyramid, which is his skillset. Psimagnet tricks are higher up on the pyramid: they are less accessible/harder to do, but thankfully they make up a much smaller part of the pyramid.

Instead of looking at Ness players doing amazing things and trying to replicate it, envision their skillset as a pyramid of harder to do and easier to do things (and often in this game, the easier to do is more fundamental to your success). Master it from bottom to top. I'd start with DJC, and cut all the other crap out of your play until you get that down.

 

[pipp3n3501]

I just started playing Project M (I've played melee for years and brawl) and I'm having trouble with Ness's DJC. Basically in melee I used X-X-A to do fair, bair, uair and nair out of shield. The problem I'm having is I cannot seem to get Ness to perform a DJC aerial with X-X-A combination. I feel like I'm doing it faster then I did in melee but I keep getting the same result. Ness jumps, and jumps again doing an aerial into the air with a upward momentum. I turned on tap-jump to see if it would work and it did. Its just I'm not use to using it and cant angle my aerials in odd trajectories ( like a triangle or w/e). I can mainly only do it in place with tap jump. I did get some lateral distance but its nothing like I could in melee. Any suggestions?

 

[Bryonato]

DJC is changed in PM to where if you hold jump for long enough while doing an aerial you will do a rising aerial. Mofo had this same problem iirc

 

[Kally Wally]

DJC is changed in PM to where if you hold jump for long enough while doing an aerial you will do a rising aerial. Mofo had this same problem iirc

Importantly, this only applies to Ness and Lucas so far. Peach still can't do rising aerials, and I don't think Mewtwo will be able to do them either. Jury's still out on Yoshi.

 

[LydianAlchemist]

DJC Bair. If you don't L-cancel it you get a horridly long 'get up' animation. If you DJC it close to the ground, you can pull it out in less than a second.
To teach him, tell him to double TAP the X button on his controller so that he shorthops and then do a backwards aerial. Make sure he practices short hoping A LOT before learning how to DJC.

Watch this MOFO match and see how fast his DJC Bairs come out.​

Also, I do not suggest playing Ness in Melee. I do highly suggest playing NUS in Project: M however. Same principles of DJCs from all the other games (minus Brawl) apply in P:M.

7:17 that's like the coolest thing I've ever seen :O

 

[Deleted member]

7:17 that's like the coolest thing I've ever seen :O

Yoyo Glitch - Thunder Jacket.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Thunder Jacket is legit, but the PKT barrier prediction to save himself from the perfectly-spaced knee from Hax?

That was f*cking godlike.

 

[LydianAlchemist]

Thunder Jacket is legit, but the PKT barrier prediction to save himself from the perfectly-spaced knee from Hax?

That was f*cking godlike.

he won the battle but lost the war lol