Taj is the best Mewtwo (Ask Taj Stuff Thread)

[V3ctorMan]

..Yeah.. I suppose.. ><;

but he's funnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

[KAOSTAR]

Mewtwo 4 lyfe son.

but Vman, how is the whole yoshi thing coming, I feel disconnected lol.

 

[ChivalRuse]

@VMan - Yes, but I'll never be able to use him in tournament. You're my hero by the way.

 

[V3ctorMan]

@Kaostar - the yoshi is actually coming along.. very.. VERY well... I think/hope i'm starting to turn some heads on what people think of him, but of course more time/experience/videos will show this... ^^ I'm doing all I can ya know?

@ChivalRuse - hey man, you know the saying(s) NEVER say never... ^^ it can be done... Taj did with Mewtwo.. Axe, did with Pikachu,... I'm tryin to do the same with Yoshi.. <3

It can be done... all you need is confidence.. ^^... and woot.. I'm someone's hero ^^!

<3 ChivalRuse <3

 

[SDC]

I think/hope i'm starting to turn some heads on what people think of him, but of course more time/experience/videos will show this... ^^ I'm doing all I can ya know?

Honestly Vman, because of your vids I'm beginning to think that Yoshi isn't trash tier, but really low on the low tier. So yes you are slowly but steadily improving my conception of yoshi.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Yayayayay, ^^ that's my goal(s) hopes that I'd like to achieve....

 

[Steelia]

@V3ctorMan, my younger bro "mains" Yoshi (used loosely as he doesn't dedicate time to improve, but the dino's definitely his strongest choice), showed him some of your recent vids, he was rooting for you the whole way. Definitely got a supporter here, if nowhere else. If he decides to actually pick up and get some sort of playstyle down, I wouldn't doubt if he'd follow in your lead. I think it's really neat. Just thought I'd share.

And, well, @Taj, haven't really seen any footage of your M2 in action lately. What's up with that? :C

 

[Shadow Huan]

sdc is considering going back to mewtwo? I guess heck hasnt frozen over yet lol.

the mewtwo boards have been dead for like a half a month lol, where has everybody been?

 

[KAOSTAR]

I been in the lab

 

[SDC]

sdc is considering going back to mewtwo? I guess heck hasnt frozen over yet lol.

I live in Minnesota, where hell is always frozen over.

the mewtwo boards have been dead for like a half a month lol, where has everybody been?

Getting my **** together.

I been in the lab

lolz any new discoveries in the world of Mewtwo metagame Kaos?

 

[Ocho(*8*)]

hey kaostar, do you pronounce your name like, "Chaos-star" or is it just like k-a-o-star or something like that?

I was just talking about that with someone (might've been sdc, can't really remember)

 

[Shadow Huan]

no for realz, this place was deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeead for the longest time.

are we allowed to type "hell" out now?

lol

*EDIT* i guess so.

the mewtwo metagame = "Gee I hope that my opponent doesn't know how to fight mewtwo because I'm not TAJ..." lol

seriously though, I did pretty good at the last tourny I was @, my mewtwo was in shape. He won me a few sets actually :D

 

[V3ctorMan]

Not gonna lie.. a large part of me is "missing" Mewtwo.. I might... upload a few... just to satisfy that hunger... that....

and to see if I can still play the guy ><;

 

[KAOSTAR]

@sdc, new ****...not really. just better implementation of old ****. my combos are looking pretty fat, and ive been working on covering more options and being more aggressive with follow ups. I use to back off completely after the standard combo endings. and I switched up my move distribution away from d tilt punishes/tech chases. meaning im using more fair/uair/f tilt and being able to lead in more with bair at mid percents. less sending them up and away from me and more keeping them teching giving me more opps to capitalize.

all for the better.

also its pronounced Kao similar to K.O. but slightly less emphasis on the long "O" sound. and then star.

Kay oh star

 

[The Phenom]

I been in the lab

same; lol.

I've got some Mewtwo matches if anyone wants me to upload them...I'm recording for combos right now until 2012.

 

[KAOSTAR]

if u put them up I can critique them if u would like.

2012? why

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

What does Mew2 dislike about Marth/Roy, and what does he like to do to marth/roy? I really would like to know specifics, so if you can avoid trolling me that would be really nice.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Marth and roy are totally different in terms of the MU specifics. There's one thing in common tho, mewtwo has to screw with their spacing. Doing that to Roy easier overall because it's easier to get inside of roy's range and do stuff, a smart marth can and will keep you out and win.

roy's easier to edgeguard (fall speed + subpar recovery) but marth is easier to kill off the top.

the more simple that marth plays the MU the better chance he has of beating mewtwo, roy has to be tricky, no simple stuff like *fair spam* and *tippered fsmash because you reacted a quarter second too slow*. I don't think that mewtwo has an advantage on roy but roy's definately easier to fight than marth.

oh, and neither is bothered by bsb spam, don't do it. Bsb can give you an approach option, even tho it's a weak one even against roy. Sorry if that's too general, not great @ write-ups lol

 

[KAOSTAR]

mewtwo has the adv on roy. shadow balls are pretty effective, they force sword man to act. they can be jabed tho

 

[Shadow Huan]

That's why i said it's a weak approach option. Imo roy vs m2 is even or slightly roy. Depends on the skill level of the player playing roy and the stage

 

[The Phenom]

if u put them up I can critique them if u would like.

2012? why

Sure. I guess I'll upload some then.

**** I've been testing out whether a charging shadow ball as a approach would be feasible enough to work. I don't know if any good will come from it though =/ ; thoughts?

This is why: !@-!@-!@ check the time difference from this date...!@-@!-!@ , not also this, but I'm also uploading a video on that date...
---------
Edit: lol, This morning for work I saw a shooting star and looked at my cell phone for the time...there was a 9 on the time...similar to lasts weeks shooting star with a nine, expect it was a date and not the time; 12-9-10.

 

[SDC]

Question:

Why is this bad character still my best character lol?

Why does my jiggz get wrecked and my mewtwo gets me my only win? Why lol?

 

[V3ctorMan]

Might come back to Mewtwo.. it might be for the best idk....

Post more later.. maybe..

 

[KAOSTAR]

Share your thoughts with me, Tim.

 

[SDC]

Might come back to Mewtwo.. it might be for the best idk....

Post more later.. maybe..

I'm having a similar experience. I'm realizing that I'm doing well with mewtwo, moreso then with jiggz. It's really ****ing weird, I know she's 200 billion times better as a character then he is, but I just can't get over what little "strengths" he has. I am far more accustomed to his edgeguarding techniques, I can gimp far better with mewtwo, mewtwo has a projectile, one that is chargeable, he has something that at least keeps me from getting hit by lasers as I'm recovering, for some reason I like his OOS and defensive options better (although random OOS rest with jiggz is just incomparable), nair OOS, teleport, dodging, his shield grab is faster (I think, not entirely sure on that though), I swear to god DJC shadowclaw is so goddamn fun, mewtwo's combo options are more fun. Mewtwo's bair is vastly inferior to jiggz bair, but for some strange reason I'm much better with it when it comes to edgeguarding lol. He doesn't have rest, but that means you actually have to earn your KOs, and that's something I like about him. No cheap, easy ****. Everything is earned, and when you get it, it looks and feels goddamn great. His tilts are better/more useful. Did I mention he has a projectile (albeit a bad one). I've realized that mewtwo's killing options aren't so limited at all. He has moves that combo into shadowclaw for a KO, he has dsmsash, he has ftilt/bair/upair (sometimes those moves just start up edgeguards, but still help), he of course has upthrow, but sometimes against characters with inferior recoveries, backthrow is sufficient; on light floaties a sweet spotted uptilt is a killer; charged shadowball of course, and sometimes you can even combo/tech-chase/tech-read into it; fsmash sometimes, even though that move is bad lol; once a match you can get this stupid looking dair KO, it's so cool when it works, but the hitbox comes out so slowly lol, I'm going to have to get the hitbox data on mewtwo soon; and as I said before, his edgeguarding options are actually pretty good, and I'll elaborate on those as well. Mewtwo has shadowball, bair, uair (reverse, soft, and sweetspotted all have their uses), ftilt, dsmash, SUNC, dair (lol sometimes if you're lucky), even dtilt can help against some characters, I've discovered that nair is one hell of an edgeguarding tool, oftentimes has a fox's-shine effect if you use it correctly, at certain percentages even uptilt can help, fsmash when timed right is great, if they're at high enough percents, you can aggro shadowclaw them when they're vulnerable to get a star KO. Mewtwo's recovery is arguably one of the best in the entire game. I'd say it's nearly even with jiggz, second jump-ariel is unbelievably good, confusion helps stop projectiles, and teleport is one of the best moves in the game, if you use it intelligently and don't jump into their punishment it's so damn safe, you can either go past them or to the ledge. His tech chasing options aren't bad either, wavedash dgrab, confusion, DJC shadowclaw, wavedash dtilt, charged shadowball.

TL;DR sorry for the big block of crap, but I'm better with this trash character, and I just don't why. :s

 

[V3ctorMan]

^nah, it's not character limitations for me or anything... my self esteem was a bit challenged.... I think i'm allrite...hopefully..

 

[KAOSTAR]

Yea that **** happens. A few bad games and you start doubting sometimes. LOL. the life of low tier players. Its coo either way, if u wanna play yoshi do it, but u can always come back to m2 cuz he ****ing ***** ya digg. I kno u miss them shadowballs..

 

[SDC]

^nah, it's not character limitations for me or anything... my self esteem was a bit challenged.... I think i'm allrite...hopefully..

Self-esteem issues? Personal problems eh? That hurts all aspects of your life. For your sake, I do indeed hope you are doing better.

If you need anyone to talk to who's been through those sorts of things multiple times, just let me know. Not that you'd want to discuss such personal matters with somebody you don't even know, but, just, ya know, offering my help. <3

 

[ItalianStallion]

I enjoy watching both your Mewtwo and Yoshi, so I wouldn't mind who you ended up with. My only request is that you continue to use both of them to some degree. Even though I don't use him, I love watching your Yoshi. You go all out with him and are so risky that anything can happen.

 

[Taj278]

^nah, it's not character limitations for me or anything... my self esteem was a bit challenged.... I think i'm allrite...hopefully..

I know what you mean...

 

[SDC]

I know what you mean...

The mewtwo boards need some therapy?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Might come back to Mewtwo.. it might be for the best idk....

Post more later.. maybe..

But I like your Yoshi.

 

[KAOSTAR]

LOL, didnt notice this before...but you can dair c.falcon thru platforms on battlefield and yoshistory. Probably works on other character stage combos but I didnt test this out yet.

Its fairly hard to do tho. I havent been able to get more than 3 in a row. You have to time it so that the foot is coming down as you hit the platform, and it just extends on thru just like falcons dair can.

Im bout to fuxx wit dis some mo

 

[KAOSTAR]

Mewtwo can get back aired by almost every character when he lands confusion, and disable doesn't have enough stun. I'd say a move is good if it gives you a viable mix up, and you don't actually get punished from landing it. Whether the move has a lot of utility or low utility doesn't matter as long as it has a specific use that isn't punishable for succeeding whether the opponent can make decisions after being hit by it or not. I make it work, because I understand that many people aren't prepared for it, and I use it sparingly. I still get utility out of it, but for the time being, you could argue that even the most incomplete moves are "useful" until punishes become more common. That's the strength of an underplayed character.

Question for Taj: I was just skimming around the boards and such, and I decided to read up on the homie Vman in the yoshi boards and I came across the lil egg lay fiasco. *****s dont play when it comes to yoshi apparently.

You had said that you didnt feel that disable or confusion were good moves I suppose in comparison to egg lay. Do you just not think they are good moves at all or just the basic melee is situational and they can all be used at some point? Im just curious on your thoughts on these moves and how you try to work them into your game. I see you fade back jump canceling disable OOs a fair amount.

Spoiler

Ive always felt that disable was a good move to a degree. REason being, while ignoring the normal bs of must be facing you, on the ground and a mid percent etc, Ive always felt it to simply be an extension.

M2s grab range is mid range, iir 12th out of the lot, but using disable which is at least 2.5 times the range and does hold them still. At low percents Im sure the opponent can just mash out, but at mid-higher percents even with mashers there is enough time to get a grab off, or choose a move more suited for the situation. Ive been taking the opportunity to just get an onstage dair off which isnt as common for a solid 16 and high stun that can be comboed off of. and more recently IVe really been liking to set gimps up around 25percent on FFs. Ive always tried to use dtilt into disable as that gimmicky launcher but that requires more percent. Recently Ive learned that at the edge a djc fair into disable has more knockback than a FC dsmash or sb at that percent and can potentially set up gimps. you can also legitimately combo into Fc shadowball at around 30-35% on FFs.

I agree confusion sucks lol. Getting baired out of it is dumb, and its a risky *** mixup to use hoping they tech or airdodge. I do like that if ppl dont kno wassup then u can get some bs on a shielding opponent. pulling ppl thru BF and ps isnt enough to make it a good move.

 

[Taj278]

It's tough to answer that question, but my short answer would be that I think they aren't good moves. They definitely have situational utility, but I have evidence of confusion, specifically, punishing me for successfully landing it. The tough part is knowing when computers skew the actual effectiveness of our moves.

Playing with Axe is proof that confusion is bad, I have very rarely succeeded in making confusion actually work in my favor upon landing it. However, I have more often than not made disable work against him when I land it. He HAS punished me for landing disable, but more often than not, I get what I want from disabling his SHFFL approach and I get a tech chase out of it.

Confusion, on the other hand, gives me about 5% success from landing it on him. He will back air me about 99% of the time. For some reason, I sometimes get successful shieldgrabs on his back airs and it ends up working for me.

The whole reason I said that Egglay isn't a BAD move is that it is evident that you can use it as a mix up with DJC approaches. It hits through shield, and regardless of it being chip damage. As KK pointed out, it is like grabbing Jiggs in Puff dittos, and AT WORST you're forced to neutral position. It isn't as laggy as confusion, but I would consider confusion on par with Egg Lay if I could ALWAYS shield the back air attempt and at worst, I got a neutral position reset, 1/3 of a second worth of invincibility or not.

The only problem I have with disable is how much time you get for hitting with it. That uncertainty is the reason why I tend to grab instead of go for tilts/DJC aerials. If he comes out in time, and CCs, I get grabbed and down throw kneed, or he SH knees me on his wake up on accident or something stupid like that.

It's not as bad as confusion in that regard, but against the general population, confusion is actually strong because people still don't know or aren't used to punishing it. I stopped developing confusion since I started playing with Axe, because it is reasonably clear that I won't get away with hitting him with it most of the time.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Fair enough. I pretty much agree with that. Both situational moves for sure.

Only thing about Disable tho is that the initial stun time is constant at each percent. Just based on their tendencies of mash and CC I try to make a decision based off that. I dont think they can full CC while disabled because they cant crouch...they can only ASDI down. At mid-higher percents is when I use the dair because I have enough time to do it based on the stun, and they will for sure fall(at minimum) from the attack giving me at least a dtilt from the missed tech. If they launch then dair has hella stun to land a follow up hit.

idk, I just feel like disable is useful for sure starting at like 80%. usually below that I go for grab or djc fair if I think I can get it.

and I like the way it handles at around 20-30s at the edge if u combo into it.

good**** tho.

 

[Taj278]

Upon further consideration, I'm willing to acknowledge that I may be cutting myself short on disable punishes against human opponents. I'm going to try go for harder punishes more often at the 30%+ range and see if that helps.

It's still a bad move with the facing requirements, start up, and the opponent grounded, but it still has its uses.

I suppose I should start training the M2 again. I've been working a bit more on my Marth (Shadow Sword), but I think I'll get to work on advancing the M2 metagame a bit more again.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Sounda amazing haha. Im gonna get to work on putting together that thread and just puttin in work to catch up lol.

Yea, I finally had to start going for bigger and badder **** out of disable because Silent Wolf kept yelling at me, just saying I know u can punish harder than grab or half charged downsmash.

lol, shadow sword, nice.

 

[KAOSTAR]

just trying some stuff out. prob not useful, but who knows

So I was just ****ing around with some AR stuff, and I realized....again, that M2 like peach/ness can do smash attacks oos.

From my exp and talking to Vman, upsmash oos is decent but thats simply jump canceled and probably definitely the fastest lol, requiring only 1 frame to start your jump and then another to start the attack.

but Im gonna **** around with Fsmash/dsmash to see if I can even do it in a combat situation. Basically the rundown is

from shield
0 start kneebend
1
2
3
4 start DJ
5 Press A to "start nair"(you havent even left the ground yet)
6 landing 0
7 landing 1
8 landing 2
9 landing 3 Flick c stick/input smash attack
10 attack animation
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28 Fsmashhitbox
29 Fsmash
30 Dsmash hitbox
31 Dsmash

Fsmash has more range but Dsmash you get done faster because you can IASA cancel like 10 frames or so b4 the move animation ends. It takes like 15-16 frames just to drop your shield by releasing R/L.

and obviously you can just use fair or nair oos if its permitted, but they do have less range but the attacks themselves come out on frame 5. 5 to jump and then 5 to attack, so a third of the time. but maybe you can catch somebody while they are landing using fsmash or something.

and I think I can actually fsmash oos nearly frame perfectly, The reason I say this is because you only have a 2 frame window at which you can aerial and not leave the ground, so if you can do it at all then ur either frame 7 or 6. 0-4 prejump, 5 dj 6, 7 attack.

Those nairs have to be frame perfect(attack animation starts on frame 8, hitbox comes out 13) in order to just get the single hitbox and players, you, me, vman are able to do those. The hardest part is acting when the shield stun end.
.
/
.
/
.
/
.
/
.
**** LMAO, I just realized that you dont have to smash attack lol, you can do whatever you want. Its the only thing Ive tried so far but you can for sure punish falcos fsmash with your dtilt oos. Same **** from above except the dtilt comes out on frame 5 which is hella faster. Also if you hold down during your jumps and shield stun its precision thats actually doable.

I was only experimenting with the smash attack and as of right now I dont recommend trying to do them oos(except upsmash), unless ur just trying to show off and not do any damage.

Possible punishes...dtilt oos

Falco, Fsmash
Falcon Raptorboost
fox upsmash

 

[Taj278]

Interesting, time is very important, that's probably the only thing keeping me from practicing it. I feel like I'd rather just WD out of shield and play the spacing game instead of trying to F smash out of shield, which would be the only smash attack that would be useful with that technique, imo. If they're so close that you can down smash or down tilt... they'll most likely be able to grab/shield pressure you before any of that comes out anyway.

It's the main reason DJC aerials out of shield, as cool as they are, don't really work that well.