Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[pupNapoleon]

It's great but I always find it unfair Link isnt in these ever (or even Pikachu). Both are more than important enough to be in these images imo (granted in this case it's a Rainbow so kind of can't fit em in anyway lol)

Make Ryu another shade of red, either pacman or Pikachu orange, and Link green with cloud being a turquoise

 

[TipperTheScales]

Meanwhile, in other news...

The most exciting thing for me is that NSMBU P-Switches actually look like P-Switches now.

I hope that enemies controlling the Fire Koopa Clown Cars get to shoot at you too

Make Ryu another shade of red, either pacman or Pikachu orange, and Link green with cloud being a turquoise

I'd actually go with giving Mario a more pure red and Ryu inherit Mario's then add a bit more saturation such that it becomes vermilion

Aren't Link's and Cloud's greens kinda different enough already to not warrant a turquoise? If anything I'd probably aim for a line to grass green for Link (which is how Sm4sh codifies his official color iirc)

I feel like Pac deserves pure yellow but I think for chromatic appeal a slight shift to lemon while Pika gets gold yellow would work

 

[Tr1pleDee]

It's great but I always find it unfair Link isnt in these ever (or even Pikachu). Both are more than important enough to be in these images imo (granted in this case it's a Rainbow so kind of can't fit em in anyway lol)

Make Ryu another shade of red, either pacman or Pikachu orange, and Link green with cloud being a turquoise

I considered putting those 2 in, yeah, but I only had about an hour before I had to go to school so I decided to make one just showcasing 3rd parties. I can make a version with Link and Pikachu once I get home.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Currently having an argument with PushDustIn . He thinks Bayonetta got in because NON-Nintendo fans voted for her.

I am saying she got in because she had a Nintendo exclusive title and Nintendo fans rallied around her. The series was too niche and didn't have that many non-Nintendo fans. He thinks her having a Nintendo exclusive title had nothing to do with her votes.

What side are you on?

 

[ChikoLad]

Currently having an argument with PushDustIn . He thinks Bayonetta got in because NON-Nintendo fans voted for her.

I am saying she got in because she had a Nintendo exclusive title and Nintendo fans rallied around her. The series was too niche and didn't have that many non-Nintendo fans. He thinks her having a Nintendo exclusive title had nothing to do with her votes.

What side are you on?

It was a bit of both. She would not have won with just one or the other.

And I still stand by saying that there was at least a small portion that voted for her out of the pure sex appeal aspect.

 

[Solfiner]

Currently having an argument with PushDustIn . He thinks Bayonetta got in because NON-Nintendo fans voted for her.

I am saying she got in because she had a Nintendo exclusive title and Nintendo fans rallied around her. The series was too niche and didn't have that many non-Nintendo fans. He thinks her having a Nintendo exclusive title had nothing to do with her votes.

What side are you on?

I would think that non-Nintendo fans voted for troll suggestions instead. Bayonetta 2 was recieved super well (even though it sold bad), so I'm on your team personally.

 

[Arcadenik]

Meanwhile, in other news...

The most exciting thing for me is that NSMBU P-Switches actually look like P-Switches now.

I love the P-switch doors and the fire clown cars.

Now the doors can be used like in Super Mario World where you have to hit the switch to make doors appear.

I like that the clown cars can shoot fire... now we can make SHMUP levels... even recreate Sky Pop and Marine Pop levels from Super Mario Land...

The bumpers are pretty cool. I like how they are designed after Lemmy's bouncy balls.

 

[Frostwraith]

Currently having an argument with PushDustIn . He thinks Bayonetta got in because NON-Nintendo fans voted for her.

I am saying she got in because she had a Nintendo exclusive title and Nintendo fans rallied around her. The series was too niche and didn't have that many non-Nintendo fans. He thinks her having a Nintendo exclusive title had nothing to do with her votes.

What side are you on?

I think it's entirely possible that non-Nintendo fans influenced the ballot somehow.

I've seen people that weren't that interested in Smash but the inclusion of Bayonetta managed to convince them to get a 3DS or Wii U for Smash.

 

[TipperTheScales]

Currently having an argument with PushDustIn . He thinks Bayonetta got in because NON-Nintendo fans voted for her.

I am saying she got in because she had a Nintendo exclusive title and Nintendo fans rallied around her. The series was too niche and didn't have that many non-Nintendo fans. He thinks her having a Nintendo exclusive title had nothing to do with her votes.

What side are you on?

I'm trying to work out what motivations the non-Ninty fanbase would vote her on besides sex appeal. Compared with Ryu and Cloud who are most certainly pillars of gaming, (and also because I don't know enough about the nature of Bayo fans,) would a general gamer know enough about Bayo AND Smash to be convinced to see her make it in?

 

[Frostwraith]

I think Bayonetta may be a case in which the character is popular, but doesn't mean a lot of people have played her games.

 

[Deleted member]

Meanwhile, in other news...

The most exciting thing for me is that NSMBU P-Switches actually look like P-Switches now.

Bouncers are gonna be fun
P-Doors will allow me to change some stuff on my levels
Fire Koopa Clown Car is perfect for bullet hell levels and I'm gonna make some

Currently having an argument with PushDustIn . He thinks Bayonetta got in because NON-Nintendo fans voted for her.

I am saying she got in because she had a Nintendo exclusive title and Nintendo fans rallied around her. The series was too niche and didn't have that many non-Nintendo fans. He thinks her having a Nintendo exclusive title had nothing to do with her votes.

What side are you on?

Non-Nintendo fans wouldn't care nor vote on the ballot
It's really pissing me off how people are trying to discredit Bayonetta's popularity
"Oh, someone made a bunch of bots"
"Oh, Sakurai made the results up"
"Oh, something something salt"

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm trying to work out what motivations the non-Ninty fanbase would vote her on besides sex appeal. Compared with Ryu and Cloud who are most certainly pillars of gaming, (and also because I don't know enough about the nature of Bayo fans,) would a general gamer know enough about Bayo AND Smash to be convinced to see her make it in?

Bayonetta 1 was on Xbox 360 and PS3 way before Wii U. And those are the best selling iterations of Bayonetta.

There's your answer.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Bouncers are gonna be fun
P-Doors will allow me to change some stuff on my levels
Fire Koopa Clown Car is perfect for bullet hell levels and I'm gonna make some

Non-Nintendo fans wouldn't care nor vote on the ballot
It's really pissing me off how people are trying to discredit Bayonetta's popularity
"Oh, someone made a bunch of bots"
"Oh, Sakurai made the results up"
"Oh, something something salt"

I'm not saying she's not popular in the context of Smash, and I don't think Sakurai is making up numbers. I'm just saying that she became a popular choice for Smash because Nintendo "saved" Bayonetta 2. I don't think she would have gotten the same number of votes if Bayonetta 2 was multi-platform.

Bayonetta 1 was on Xbox 360 and PS3 way before Wii U. And those are the best selling iterations of Bayonetta.

There's your answer.

Right, but those games combined sold about 1/3 of what Resident Evil 5 sold, for example. If the game didn't have ties to Nintendo then there are many much larger franchises that non-Nintendo fans are invested in.

 

[Strofirko]

I think every single person who played bayonetta wanted her day one.
Considering the game"failed" with 0.9 million sales.
It is an unfair comparison with the few hundreds inside this smash communnity that wanted X or Y characters that the big masses,including nintendo ones, don't care for.
It is also funny seeing the reaction from most of Bayonetta supporters expecting her somehow.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not saying she's not popular in the context of Smash, and I don't think Sakurai is making up numbers. I'm just saying that she became a popular choice for Smash because Nintendo "saved" Bayonetta 2. I don't think she would have gotten the same number of votes if Bayonetta 2 was multi-platform.

I was replying to Push's side of the argument
Sorry if it wasn't clear

 

[Spazzy_D]

I love the P-switch doors and the fire clown cars.

Now the doors can be used like in Super Mario World where you have to hit the switch to make doors appear.

I like that the clown cars can shoot fire... now we can make SHMUP levels... even recreate Sky Pop and Marine Pop levels from Super Mario Land...

The bumpers are pretty cool. I like how they are designed after Lemmy's bouncy balls.

Tatanga boss character when?

 

[ChikoLad]

I was replying to Push's side of the argument
Sorry if it wasn't clear

In that case it's even more confusing.

Push's side of the argument assumes her popularity goes further than just the Nintendo fans. Whatever the reasons there could be for that, that's hardly discrediting her popularity.

 

[wedl!!]

"most Bayonetta supporters expected her"

I sure as hell didn't. I basically gave up on support for the character around Smash 4's release (but I still voted on the ballot for her. :x)

 

[Spazzy_D]

In that case it's even more confusing.

Push's side of the argument assumes her popularity goes further than just the Nintendo fans. Whatever the reasons there could be for that, that's hardly discrediting her popularity.

I'm not saying her popularity is only with Nintendo fans, I just feel that Nintendo fans are the ones that primarily voted on her here. She's kind of popular, but she's not an industry juggernaut.

 

[MasterofMonster]

Damage Up affects all weapons; however, it cannot lower the amount of hits it takes to splat an opponent, meaning that is is only useful with most weapons if the opponent has the Defense Up ability. The ability does lower the amount of time that a player using a charger needs to charge their weapon to splat an opponent, making it more useful with chargers.

http://splatoonwiki.org/wiki/Damage_Up

Yeah, looked it up on said site, and I guess it is.. true enough, I suppose? :s Thank you kindly. Shame I have used it for naught so much, haha.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm not saying she's not popular in the context of Smash, and I don't think Sakurai is making up numbers. I'm just saying that she became a popular choice for Smash because Nintendo "saved" Bayonetta 2. I don't think she would have gotten the same number of votes if Bayonetta 2 was multi-platform.



Right, but those games combined sold about 1/3 of what Resident Evil 5 sold, for example. If the game didn't have ties to Nintendo then there are many much larger franchises that non-Nintendo fans are invested in.

That doesn't matter, my point is that it wasn't just Nintendo fans or non-Nintendo fans.

And as I said earlier in the thread, people had plenty of reasons to know and like the character without playing her game, be it sex appeal, hearing about the greatness of her game and knowing it's cream of the crop of action games, etc.

Not to mention used sales which are common on other platforms and don't get accounted for in sales.

 

[epicmartin7]

So my friend has had a handful of videos recently uploaded. I just want to give you guys a sample and see if you guys see any improvements or not in it. I haven't watched it yet as I don't have time right now (tonight I will though.) So, let me know what you guys think!

Advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[PushDustIn]

1. I was saying that none of the campaigning had any effect on the actual results. (silent majority argument that I've stated for a long time).

2. Looking at the top viewed ballot prediction videos on YouTube show no signs of Bayonetta.

3. The ballot wasn't just open to Nintendo fans. We also have no idea what "acceptable means". If they wanted just Smash/ Nintendo fans they could have tied the voting to surveys on Club Nintendo. I believe they were interested in appealing to a wider audience (to some extent).

Spazzy_D said it was all Nintendo fans voting for her. I really don't think so as the time frame between her release and the ballot was too long. Most of the mentions of Bayonetta in Smash were from pre release.

Not dissing Bayonetta or her popularity, in fact I'm saying she has some general appeal.

 

[Deleted member]

Regardless, I do think there are quiet majorities out there and that the popularity of certain characters was indeed overestimated.

And yeah, people do often want characters in despite never playing their games.(I have many friends who wanted K Rool despite never playing a single DK game, same with shantae and shovel knight.)

Like seriously, one of my friends who's really upset over announcment wanted shantae in, I asked him why and he simpilily stated "I don't know, she seems to fit in I guess." Many people probably think the same thing for a multitude of characters.

 

[Champ Gold]

Currently having an argument with PushDustIn . He thinks Bayonetta got in because NON-Nintendo fans voted for her.

I am saying she got in because she had a Nintendo exclusive title and Nintendo fans rallied around her. The series was too niche and didn't have that many non-Nintendo fans. He thinks her having a Nintendo exclusive title had nothing to do with her votes.

What side are you on?

I'm on Push side.

That said, Nintendo fans had the influence as well because of the game. Remember, the first game had sold 1M on 360/PS3 and people who owned the 360 version knew how wonderful the character and game was, knew that the Wii U sequel would be incredible and it was. It won so many GOTY awards last year.


Bayonetta had influence from every spectrum so saying it was from Non-Nintendo or total Nintendo fans were her supporters

It was BOTH SIDES

 

[Strofirko]

On this argument we can consider also the fans of the hack'n slash genre as a whole,not many can have a wii u,but likes Bayonetta somehow,considering the game is the spiritual sucessor of one of the role models of the genre (Devil May Cry),and the character was the most accessible by nintendo,I can see where some of the votes came from.

 

[Spazzy_D]

1. I was saying that none of the campaigning had any effect on the actual results. (silent majority argument that I've stated for a long time).

2. Looking at the top viewed ballot prediction videos on YouTube show no signs of Bayonetta.

3. The ballot wasn't just open to Nintendo fans. We also have no idea what "acceptable means". If they wanted just Smash/ Nintendo fans they could have tied the voting to surveys on Club Nintendo. I believe they were interested in appealing to a wider audience (to some extent).

Spazzy_D said it was all Nintendo fans voting for her. I really don't think so as the time frame between her release and the ballot was too long. Most of the mentions of Bayonetta in Smash were from pre release.

Not dissing Bayonetta or her popularity, in fact I'm saying she has some general appeal.

The issue is that it's a niche series, and Nintendo continued to use her in promotions. She is not top 10 on most best PS3 or Xbox 360 games lists. There are bigger characters out there. People were talking about her as a Smash rep since the game was announed as a Nintendo exclusive.

Also, point 1 is that top viewed on YouTube don't include her, and point 2 is that campaigns had no effect. Isn't that contradictory?

 

[Frostwraith]

I'm with Push here. Character popularity doesn't just come from people who play the games.

The fact non-Nintendo fans voted for Bayonetta wouldn't discredit her popularity. It would mean that she's popular among the gaming community overall, rather than just the Nintendo fandom.

Don't you remember the backlash from the fact Bayo2 was Wii U exclusive?

 

[Champ Gold]

The issue is that it's a niche series, and Nintendo continued to use her in promotions. She is not top 10 on most best PS3 or Xbox 360 games lists. There are bigger characters out there. People were talking about her as a Smash rep since the game was announed as a Nintendo exclusive.

Also, point 1 is that top viewed on YouTube don't include her, and point 2 is that campaigns had no effect. Isn't that contradictory?

She's not as niche as most people believe. Remember the massive backlash against Bayonetta 2 on Wii U and how so many people were upset that it wasn't on the other consoles and the BS campaign to try it get it on 360/PS3 again but it was founded out that Nintendo funded the sequel.


It's not as niche if it cause that much salt and demand for the game

 

[Spazzy_D]

I'm with Push here. Character popularity doesn't just come from people who play the games.

The fact non-Nintendo fans voted for Bayonetta wouldn't discredit her popularity. It would mean that she's popular among the gaming community overall, rather than just the Nintendo fandom.

Don't you remember the backlash from the fact Bayo2 was Wii U exclusive?

People just don't like Nintendo fans having nice things.

 

[wedl!!]

Well no that's actually because the Wii U didn't appeal to Bayo's original audience (at that time at least, and it still really doesn't). Most people didn't want to drop $250 for a console for one game.

 

[Solfiner]

Maybe I'm just too cynical to believe that non-Nintendo fans would vote for a legitimately cool character.

Really happy with her inclusion, can't wait to try her out.

 

[Frostwraith]

Bayonetta is a niche game in the sense it mostly targets more hardcore gamers.

Casual players likely don't know who Bayonetta is, but she is popular within the gaming community, who probably had the bigger influence in the ballot, IMO.

Assuming all this, she would actually have advantage over Nintendo characters due to having support from non-Nintendo gamers. I doubt characters like K. Rool, Isaac and Inklings would have any support from people outside of the Nintendo fandom.

 

[Strofirko]

2. Looking at the top viewed ballot prediction videos on YouTube show no signs of Bayonetta.

You are forgetting the fan-made rules that is giant detractment on the point of view on popularity.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Bayonetta is a niche game in the sense it mostly targets more hardcore gamers.

Casual players likely don't know who Bayonetta is, but she is popular within the gaming community, who probably had the bigger influence in the ballot, IMO.

Assuming all this, she would actually have advantage over Nintendo characters due to having support from non-Nintendo gamers. I doubt characters like K. Rool, Isaac and Inklings would have any support from people outside of the Nintendo fandom.

How many non-Nintendo fans are going to care enough to vote in the first place? If they were voting just on want, there are many 360 and PS3 games that sold (a lot more), were reviewed better, and are generally more popular.

 

[Champ Gold]

People just don't like Nintendo fans having nice things.

Nope, people don't like games being on anything but the most demanded.

• Remember the massive asspain Final Fantasy 13 got when people found out that it was on Xbox 360 instead of being PS3 exclusive
• Remember when Rise of the Tomb Raider was a timed exclusive on Xbox One and how many people were upset
• The anger of Persona Q being on the 3DS
• Street Fighter V exclusive to PS4 anger
• Bloodborne on PS4 and how people were desperate for a PC port

Trust me, ******** exist no matter the platform.

 

[PushDustIn]

The issue is that it's a niche series, and Nintendo continued to use her in promotions. She is not top 10 on most best PS3 or Xbox 360 games lists. There are bigger characters out there. People were talking about her as a Smash rep since the game was announed as a Nintendo exclusive.

Also, point 1 is that top viewed on YouTube don't include her, and point 2 is that campaigns had no effect. Isn't that contradictory?

Nope, point two is proven by point one. The hardcore Smash fanbase's drive (the people watching and making the videos) to the polls had no apparent effect on the results.

 

[Frostwraith]

How many non-Nintendo fans are going to care enough to vote in the first place? If they were voting just on want, there are many 360 and PS3 games that sold (a lot more), were reviewed better, and are generally more popular.

There are plenty of gaming fans that don't stick to a console and simply play games from across the medium, regardless of console or whatever.

Yes, there are the fanboys who waste time with petty console wars, but do know that the Smash Bros. Ballot was reported by gaming media overall, thus having exposure to those gamers.

There were Bayonetta fans who got a Wii U for Bayo2. Smash fans saw the ballot as if it was a popularity contest for themselves, but forgot to look at the big picture.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Nope, people don't like games being on anything but the most demanded.

• Remember the massive asspain Final Fantasy 13 got when people found out that it was on Xbox 360 instead of being PS3 exclusive
• Remember when Rise of the Tomb Raider was a timed exclusive on Xbox One and how many people were upset
• The anger of Persona Q being on the 3DS
• Street Fighter V exclusive to PS4 anger
• Bloodborne on PS4 and how people were desperate for a PC port

Trust me, ******** exist no matter the platform.

Well, yeah, fan boy wars. I get it.

It's like small children. Or dogs. Let's say there's a bone, and neither dog is playing with it. The minute one dog starts chewing on it the other wants it.

We're all just animals.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Not to start an argument,

But do you guys think Bayonetta really won the ballot?

I'm not saying that they're lying to us. But do you think there was some tampering involved? Did they let people vote as many times as they want, thus allowing for bots to take over?

Now look, I'm fine with her inclusion and am happy for her fanbase. I'm just sort of shocked that she was never on the table for any of our discussions, yet she won. I never expected the fan polls to be an indicator (I never thought K Rool or Shantae actually "won"), but I really am confused on how she ended up being #1 Worldwide.