Suzaku Castle: Stage Research

[ParanoidDrone]

RYU HYPE TRAIN ENGAGE!

Ahem...

Suzaku Castle comes packaged with the Ryu DLC, which costs $5.99 to purchase for either the Wii U or 3DS version, or $6.99 for both versions together. At the time of this writing there is no way to purchase the stage on its own.

Previously Covered
Dream Land (64)
Final Destination & Ω Forms
PAC-LAND
75M
Skyworld
Flat Zone X
The Great Cave Offensive
Onett
Palutena's Temple
Yoshi's Island
Wily Castle
Gaur Plain
Pyrosphere
Temple
Mario Circuit (Brawl)
Boxing Ring
Port Town Aero Dive
Bridge of Eldin
Pilotwings
Jungle Hijinxs
Wrecking Crew
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium 2
Big Battlefield
Battlefield
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege
Town & City
Duck Hunt
Delfino Plaza
Kalos Pokemon League
Mario Galaxy
Coliseum
Gamer
Wii Fit Studio
Kongo Jungle 64
Windy Hill Zone
Luigi's Mansion
Norfair
Orbital Gate Assault
Woolly World
Skyloft
Garden of Hope
Mushroom Kingdom U
Wuhu Island
Mario Circuit

Layout
Suzaku Castle is Ryu's stage from Street Fighter II, with obligatory embellishments added for Smash and glorious HD. The right side is a walkoff, with both the solid main platform and a single long platform above it extending all the way to the blast zone. On the right are two smaller platforms floating over a void, with a non-functional ladder behind them. The lower such platform has grabbable ledges and can be jumped through from below. The upper such platform is standard.

Players 1 and 2 start on the upper left platform and next to the walkoff on the main platform. Players 3 and 4 start near the ledges of the main platform and the long platform above it. The Omega form has walled sides.

Suzaku Castle has no stage hazards, although some signs in the background are fragile and will break if enough attacks connect in their vicinity. New signs reappear 10 seconds after the last one is destroyed.

Still can't believe Ryu is in Smash. Bonus points if you can figure out why I chose Mega Man to be Player 2.

Summary

• Walkoff on the right side, both the main platform and the one above it.
• Two platforms on left over void, lower one has grabbable ledges.
• Fragile signs in background, no effect on battle.

 

[Xeze]

Walkoff. Automatically not suited for competitive play.

 

[Kofu]

Walkoff. Automatically not suited for competitive play.

The various transforming stages would like to have a word with you, though theirs are impermanent. I'd be willing to test it due to the platforms, but I suspect it would be fairly easy to techchase your opponent to the blast zone.

@ ParanoidDrone how large does the stage seem relative to the blast zones?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

The various transforming stages would like to have a word with you, though theirs are impermanent. I'd be willing to test it due to the platforms, but I suspect it would be fairly easy to techchase your opponent to the blast zone.

@ ParanoidDrone how large does the stage seem relative to the blast zones?

I didn't bother testing kills on Suzaku Castle, I was more concerned with Miiverse and Dream Land's blast zones. I figured there was next to no chance of Suzaku Castle being legal anyway (damn walkoffs...) so mentally it was low priority. It didn't feel overly large, but that's after a sum total of less than an hour's playtime.

Was there something specific you wanted tested?

 

[Kofu]

I didn't bother testing kills on Suzaku Castle, I was more concerned with Miiverse and Dream Land's blast zones. I figured there was next to no chance of Suzaku Castle being legal anyway (damn walkoffs...) so mentally it was low priority.

Was there something specific you wanted tested?

It just looks kind of large with close blastzones and I haven't had a chance to get it yet. More or less how close the left side is to the blastzones compared to other close stages (Smashville).

 

[ParanoidDrone]

It just looks kind of large with close blastzones and I haven't had a chance to get it yet. More or less how close the left side is to the blastzones compared to other close stages (Smashville).

Again, ballparking (and from memory to boot) but I think the left platforms were a reasonable distance from the blast zone. Think Smashville's base instead of its platform, I guess?

I may test it in more detail later but for now I don't think it's anything particularly noteworthy.

 

[Sandfall]

The various transforming stages would like to have a word with you, though theirs are impermanent. I'd be willing to test it due to the platforms, but I suspect it would be fairly easy to techchase your opponent to the blast zone.

Their impermanence is the only reason they are acceptable. Permanent walkoffs will never be suited for competitive play

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Walk off or not, that lower platform looks like one hell of a camping spot. I don't even know how you would approach someone on that platform.

 

[dav3yb]

Megaman p2 because he's the other Capcom rep?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Megaman p2 because he's the other Capcom rep?

We have a winner, folks!

 

[DeathlyFerret]

RYU HYPE TRAIN ENGAGE!
Still can't believe Ryu is in Smash. Bonus points if you can figure out why I chose Mega Man to be Player 2.

Street Fighter x Mega Man (the PC game)

P.s. Great stage analysis

 

[NimbusSpark]

Megaman p2 because he's the other Capcom rep?

Yes, agreeable, but I personally thought it was because they were both playable in the first Marvel VS Capcom. So yeah.

 

[King Omega]

Note that the breakable signs do not actually "get hit" (as in, there is no hitstop on them).

 

[infomon]

I think we should explore this stage for competitive viability. While it seems unlikely given the walk-off, the stage is unique enough that I don't think the answer is immediate.

First I'll state what I think is the main reason for walk-off banning: In theory, a player of lesser skill can "camp" near the walk-off to reduce what would typically be many complex trades and battles of skill down to very few (perhaps one) single grab-setup-of-death. Thus they can try to "get lucky" over a better player and win the match.

The typical arguments against this theory:

• If you trick your opponent into getting grabbed near the edge of the stage, then you exploited a legitimate grave error of the opponent, and deserve the win. That's legit; a smart player will not approach so carelessly.
  
• Staying near the walk-off edge is a severe disadvantage; the opponent can beat the camping with projectiles and other baits, while you are literally standing close to death.
• This "degenerate" tactic is not often seen in high-level play during walk-off transformations, so it doesn't seem as broken as people say.

There are other arguments, both for and against, and there are questionable parts of all of them. Nevertheless, let's consider the elements that make this stage particularly unique:

1. It is a relatively small stage, unlike most walk-offs. Battles will be strongly about stage-control of the middle section, safe from both extremes. Which is the same dynamic as our legal stages.
2. The walk-off section has two platforms, which adds complexity to the area near the walk-off, providing both safety to the defender as well as an approach option to the attacker. We should explore this dynamic before guessing how it plays out.
3. Why camp the walk-off, when you can camp the platform areas on the left? Both sides of this stage are big-tradeoff zones. A player in stage-control is controlling the specific area that they think gives them an advantage, but it could simultaneously work against them. That's a rich dynamic and seems as legitimate as anything.

I've been trying out scenarios on this stage, and any "degenerate" strategy seems like a double-edged sword where the better player comes out on top. Furthermore, the scenarios are complex and very character-dependent.

I'd appreciate if other players would give this stage a chance, and I'd love to test it out with some people. Thoughts?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I think we should explore this stage for competitive viability. While it seems unlikely given the walk-off, the stage is unique enough that I don't think the answer is immediate.

First I'll state what I think is the main reason for walk-off banning: In theory, a player of lesser skill can "camp" near the walk-off to reduce what would typically be many complex trades and battles of skill down to very few (perhaps one) single grab-setup-of-death. Thus they can try to "get lucky" over a better player and win the match.

The typical arguments against this theory:

• If you trick your opponent into getting grabbed near the edge of the stage, then you exploited a legitimate grave error of the opponent, and deserve the win. That's legit; a smart player will not approach so carelessly.
  
• Staying near the walk-off edge is a severe disadvantage; the opponent can beat the camping with projectiles and other baits, while you are literally standing close to death.
• This "degenerate" tactic is not often seen in high-level play during walk-off transformations, so it doesn't seem as broken as people say.

There are other arguments, both for and against, and there are questionable parts of all of them. Nevertheless, let's consider the elements that make this stage particularly unique:

1. It is a relatively small stage, unlike most walk-offs. Battles will be strongly about stage-control of the middle section, safe from both extremes. Which is the same dynamic as our legal stages.
2. The walk-off section has two platforms, which adds complexity to the area near the walk-off, providing both safety to the defender as well as an approach option to the attacker. We should explore this dynamic before guessing how it plays out.
3. Why camp the walk-off, when you can camp the platform areas on the left? Both sides of this stage are big-tradeoff zones. A player in stage-control is controlling the specific area that they think gives them an advantage, but it could simultaneously work against them. That's a rich dynamic and seems as legitimate as anything.

I've been trying out scenarios on this stage, and any "degenerate" strategy seems like a double-edged sword where the better player comes out on top. Furthermore, the scenarios are complex and very character-dependent.

I'd appreciate if other players would give this stage a chance, and I'd love to test it out with some people. Thoughts?

This thread may be an alternate place to post your thoughts on the matter depending on how much you want it to be specific to Suzaku Castle.