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Super Smash Flash 2 Competitive Discussion Thread

Favorite character?


  • Total voters
    36

GangsterPuff

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Feel free to talk about anything that deals with competitive play of SSF2.
That being said, I made a rule sets for future tournaments (If there is gonna be any) that I think will be appropriate:

- 4 stocks
- 8 minutes
- All hazards are turned off.
-All items turned off.

Neutral Stages(updated):
Battlefield
Final Destination
Dream Land
Smashville
Mirror Chamber
Nintendo 3DS
Pokemon Stadium 3

If there is anyone who plays SSF2 who would post a video complication, match, or guide and link it on this thread, it would be great. Thanks. Also, this is a discussion thread, so if there is something notable that you discovered, please post it on here.
 
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Silic0n

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Why have auto dash off for some characters? Are there some that are hindered a lot from having it on?
 

[TSON]

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Yeah, I'm curious about that as well. Almost all of the dash attacks are pretty bad, why would you ban it for certain characters?
 

GangsterPuff

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My friend was playing Lloyd, and he says he is OP, one of the reason is his dash attack, all he did click the arrow key in one direction, and mash the attack button, and most character can't so **** about it, also once you are knocked offstage, it gives you a free foward air gimp which makes most characters with bad recovery instantly losses their stock. I tried to DI out of it, but somehow it doesn't work, so I suggest banning auto dash for lolyd, and so, I assume there are a few characters that also have ridiculous dash attacks, that's why I put "some" character. If there is a way to escape that combo, I'll remove it from the list.
 

Substitution

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My friend was playing Lloyd, and he says he is OP, one of the reason is his dash attack, all he did click the arrow key in one direction, and mash the attack button, and most character can't so **** about it, also once you are knocked offstage, it gives you a free foward air gimp which makes most characters with bad recovery instantly losses their stock. I tried to DI out of it, but somehow it doesn't work, so I suggest banning auto dash for lolyd, and so, I assume there are a few characters that also have ridiculous dash attacks, that's why I put "some" character. If there is a way to escape that combo, I'll remove it from the list.
So, because you had a bad experience, it should be banned.
That's not how it works.

It's like banning Tap Jump because you lost to some Sonic player who used it.
 

Silic0n

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When I play smash flash and play as Lloyd, I find that his dash attack is pretty lacking. If I had to choose one of his moves that can be considered OP, it would be double demon fang.
 

GangsterPuff

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So, because you had a bad experience, it should be banned.
That's not how it works.

It's like banning Tap Jump because you lost to some Sonic player who used it.
Since when did i say i ban it cause of my experience? Why do you counter argue everything i say? Ive wanted to ban it because its not really fair, and its inescapable. also the free combo at the end leave most characters with bad recovery no options and easily edge guarded, Also auto dash dash attack can combo into grab, tilt and airels, Thats why i wants to ban it.
 

Substitution

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Since when did i say i ban it cause of my experience? Why do you counter argue everything i say? Ive wanted to ban it because its not really fair, and its inescapable. also the free combo at the end leave most characters with bad recovery no options and easily edge guarded, Also auto dash dash attack can combo into grab, tilt and airels, Thats why i wants to ban it.
Well, I didn't hear that from this:
My friend was playing Lloyd, and he says he is OP, one of the reason is his dash attack, all he did click the arrow key in one direction, and mash the attack button, and most character can't so **** about it, also once you are knocked offstage, it gives you a free foward air gimp which makes most characters with bad recovery instantly losses their stock. I tried to DI out of it, but somehow it doesn't work, so I suggest banning auto dash for lolyd, and so, I assume there are a few characters that also have ridiculous dash attacks, that's why I put "some" character. If there is a way to escape that combo, I'll remove it from the list.
You also seem to have this hate for Lloyd.
Should he be banned too?
 

GangsterPuff

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Well, I didn't hear that from this:

You also seem to have this hate for Lloyd.
Should he be banned too?
Now you are just trying to find problems in my post, im trying to focus on the game here, and no i dont hate lolyd, hes one of my favorite character to play actually.
 

[TSON]

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DI away, or if you're at tumble percentages DI down and tech. You could even SDI up & in IIRC.
 

GangsterPuff

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DI away, or if you're at tumble percentages DI down and tech. You could even SDI up & in IIRC.
I tried, what controller are you using? DIng away with the keyboard is really diffucult, also it's not the DI part, but the consecutive hit part, it's range and how good it is combined with dash dancing, also, it's a jab reset, which makes even a missed tech punishable.
 
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[TSON]

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I can do it with keyboard. I played a lot against a good Lloyd at Apex. Definitely escapable.
 

GangsterPuff

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I can do it with keyboard. I played a lot against a good Lloyd at Apex. Definitely escapable.
It is escapable, but most people don't have the reflex to just SDI and tech after the first hit, and most people likes to mix up dash dancing with dash attack, and every time their opponent tries to DI away, they just grab them with loyld's ridiculous grab range.

Also, I think this game should be played with four stocks cause the combos and some fast kill moves will make the game too short, also the ability to shut off hazards makes most medium size stages the same, should some stage hazards be put back?
 
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GangsterPuff

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Character guide: Kirby
Info: Kirby is a light weight character with the ability to jump 5 times, and swallow-cide game, and amazing range on both his air and ground games for such a small character, hes also great with combos, have solid kill moves, and great spacing tools.

Pros:
-Good combo ability
-Solid kill moves
-Good air game that helps him space
-Good gimping ability
-Decent range
-Swallow cide
-Easy to space with so many jumps
-Good recovery options
-Light weight makes combos on him more difficult
-Copy abilities give him the widest amount of moveset out of the entire cast (Some are more powerful too)
-Forward and Back throw near edge is a guaranteed kill


Cons:
-Extremely light weight and easy to kill
-Most of his kill moves are slow and have long landing lag
-Easily edge guarded without jumps
-Most characters who out ranges him have faster attacks
-Slow running speed
-A generally small grab range
-No good approaching option other than air spacing
-Lacks a good projectile with out copy abilities
-Forward and Back throw near edge now kills yourself

Moveset:
Ground game:

Jabs
- First hit 2%, second hit 3 percent and the jab combo does 2 percent each
- His first hit can jab reset, and follow up with a smash attack or even hammer, the consecutive hits can be jab canceled and if I assume correct, jab locked. However, it is easily escapable by simple DI
Kb: low


Forward tilt
- 9%
- Good for zoning, however, it is overshadowed by Kirby's down tilt, which have even better range.
Kb: low


Up tilt
- 7%
- Great for combos, a dash into up tilt (which can only be performed in this game) is one of Kirby's best setup, it can combo easily into aerials. It is also good for mix ups on the ground and have a fairly large hit box.
Kb: medium

Down tilt
- 6%
- Another great move, it is fast and save to use. It have to mentioned that when Kirby use this move, he moves forward a little.
Kb: low

Foward smash
- 15% - 21%
- This is one of Kirby's main kill move, it got a buff from the other games. The foward smash now shoot him foward like in Kirby's dream collection. The more you charge, the farther kirby will kick, this covers a gigantic hit box. But a charged F-smash is really predictable, so beware when using it.
Kb: high

Up smash
- 15% - 21%
- A good kill move, good for reading getup, sidestep and rolls. It cakes out quick, and if extremely powerful.
Kb: high

Down smash
- 14% - 20%
- Two hit boxes, one of which is a meteor smash. The move is pretty fast, had good knock back, and can be used to punish opponents.
Kb: high

Dash attack
- First five does 1%, last hit does 4%
- A good move, works like how it is in brawl, it is escapable, but hard to punish, it have a fast startup, and have a wide hit box that even hits behind him.
Kb: medium

Grabs:
- Had rather small range, use when under sheild pressure, or for reads and pivot grabbing.

Forward throw
- 8%
- Removing the combo potential from brawl, however, still can be follow uped by aerials like forward and up air, but is easy to escape.
- Note that it can kirby-cide, if your opponent is a stock behind or you are at high percent, don't be afraid to use it.
Kb: medium

Back throw:
- 8%
- Basically a forward throw with less combo potential, good for getting opponent off stage.
- Kirby-cide, same as forward throw, be smart when using it.
Kb: medium

Up throw:
- 9%
- Used as a kill move in brawl, however lets face it, it rarely ever kills, however it's still good for comboing and can be used to finish off your opponent on the top of a platform (Ex: battlefield)
Kb: high

Down throw:
- 11%
- His best throw, it does good damage, can combo, and even have a chain grab low percent, down throw is useful most of the time, unlike most of the other throws.
Kb: medium

Pummel:
- 1% for each
- There is not much to be said about pummeling, rack up some damage and use a throw.
Kb: n/a

Get up:

Ground getup:
- 0%
- There is a glitch that makes this attack do no damage, not much else to say.

Less than 100% getup:
- 6%
- Pretty fast, can be used as edge guarding

More than 100%
- 6%
- A lot slower, still usable.

Air game:

Netural air:
- 12%
- Netural air is good for combo, does good damage, but ends rather slowly, it's recommend not to use it off stage.
Kb: medium

Foward air:
- First hit 4%, second hit 3% and last hit 5%
- Surprisingly good range, the second hit has almost as much as his back air, it works good for follow up and combos, also good for out spacing your opponent
Kb: medium

Up air:
- 12%
- A rather good move, it is used to juggle, combo, edgeguarded, and can even kill at top of the stage.
- Theres actually a combo I found which I named: "Staircase to heaven" Basically it's just up air juggling combo followed up by the hammer
Kb: medium

Back air:
- 12%
- Any one who played kirby in brawl know this is his best air move. This move does everything well, good damage, great range, fast start up and end frames, it can kill easily, is the best spacing tool, can combo, and is widely used to edge guarded and even gimp.
Kb: high

Down air:
- 2% each
- Despite looking like a lot, it only hits 5 times and is actually the weakest of all his aerials. However, it is good for forced approach in the air, building shield pressure, and is a good meteor smash used for gimping, most characters with bad recovery easily dies after the drill.
Kb: medium

Specials:

Neutral special:
- Inhaling does 6%, spitting out does 5%
- What makes kirby kirby. And no, I'm not only talking about the abilities he absorb, I'm talking about his kirby-cide game too.
- There will be a list of all the copy abilities coming later
- Spitting out your opponent keeps your opponent away from you, Kirby's swallowing animation is now a lot faster
- Kirby-ciding is one of the dominant strategy for playing kirby, however, most opponent will see it coming. It has a increase mobility from brawl, but in exchange, you can't footstool anymore, the key to kirby-cide is too get opponent as far away from stage as possible, however, don't risk this against other characters that has good recovery (Ex: MK, jiggly) try to go as far offstage as you can since Kirby's five jump and up-special can let him make it back easily.

Forward special:
- Air first hit 13%, second hit 10% Ground 23%
- The most powerful move Kirby has, it does a ton of damage and had ridiculous knockback on the ground. In the air, it stuns your opponent with the first hit, and ive tried before, you can follow up with a second hit, dealing a massive 23%. On ground, it hits behind kirby and is a lot smoother. Ground hammer is best used for reads, follow ups, and punishes. Air combo is best for gimping, since it does less knockback.
Kb: high

Down special:
- !2% both in air and on ground
- Kirby's stone isn't a really useful move, I had slow end lag, easy to dodge and punish, and the worst of all: it become one of Kirby's weakest moves. There isn't much to say about this move, it can be used as reads, and escape juggling situations, it can also combo, but its proved more difficult than his aerial attacks. This move does however, reflects all damage other than grabs. There a a lot of cool little easter eggs surrounding this move/ (Ex. You can turn into the moon from Mojora's mask)
Kb: low



Character MUs coming soon.
Kb- knock back

It'll take a while for me to finish this, I don't have a fast computer at one, and it is rare for me to be able to use my computer at school.
 
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Silic0n

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If it's alright with you, I could post some info on some of Lloyd's pros, cons, strengths, and weaknesses.
 

GangsterPuff

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If it's alright with you, I could post some info on some of Lloyd's pros, cons, strengths, and weaknesses.
Of course, I'm glad someone actually take notice of my post aside from critics. If you can, write as much about him as u can, then maybe I can gain some knowledge for him and add on to your post.
 
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Ryu_Ken

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Here's my info on Sora:

Weight Class: Lightweight
Tier: A

Pros:
-Has exceptionally great air combos
-Almost no cooldown on most of his moves
-Very fast attacks
-Can perform very long combos
-Decent chain grab
-Doesn't go into free fall
-One of the best edge guarders in the game
Cons:
-Very few kill moves, all that need to be kept fresh
-Thundaga has a lot of start-up lag
-Finishing Leap doesn't cover much distance
-Being lightweight means that he can be killed at around 70%
-Strike Raid can leave him open if neutralized

Moves:
Standard Attack Combo: 3% first 2 hits, 4% final. 10% Total
Final hit does kb. Isn't a great set-up for combos, but can get opponents off of you at high %.

Forward Tilt: 8%
Has decent kb. Slow, but useful if u want to keep your Forward Smash fresh.

Forward Smash: 12% uncharged, 17% charged
One of Sora's few kill moves. Great range, but use sparingly.

Down Tilt: 4%
A combo starter. Viable as an approach or defense option.

Down Smash: 18% uncharged, 30% charged
Very disjointed. Comes out very fast and can start air combos. Depending on how you play, the opponent may never see this one coming. You can gimp certain characters with this if they are close to the ledge.

Up Tilt: 8%
Good combo extender/starter.

Up Smash: 16% uncharged, 23% charged
Good anti-air move, with the special property of blowing away enemies in the air.

Dash Attack: 9%
A decent combo extender/starter. Comes out very fast.

Neutral Air: 4% each hit, 8% total
This is the base of Sora's combos since most of his aerials can follow-up to this attack. Very useful for zero-to-death combos as it has very low kb and can be chained.

Forward Air: 8%
Has decent kb. Good to use after Finishing Leap. Note that when it lands, Sora bounces a little.

Backward Air: 4% first hit, 8% second hit, 12% total.
Another one of Sora's kill moves. Also makes him bounce a little.

Downward Air: 6%
Good combo starter and follow-up to Nair. Can be chained as well. Again, it makes him bounce a little.

Upward Air: 6%
Decent combo extender. Has low kb.

Specials:
Down Special- Thundaga (Not to be confused with Thunder, Pikachu's move): 10%
Goes through platforms and stalls Sora in the air. Has the most start-up lag out of his entire moveset and should be used for edge guarding.

Forward Special- Strike Raid: 3% each hit
Can hit a single opponent twice and if canceled in the air, makes Sora bounce a little. Low priority, but good for edge guarding.

Upward Special- Finishing Leap: 9%
This is the follow-up to Sora's air combo ender since you can cancel into it during this move. Covers little distance recovery-wise, but can be used with other specials such as firaga to go the maximum distance.

Standard Special- Firaga: 15% sweet-spotted, 7% sour-spotted
This is Sora's ultimate kill move. With high priority and high kb, it makes a great combo ender and edge guard move. Also slows Sora's descent in the air which aids in his recovery. Be sure to keep this move fresh.

Grabs:
Pummel: 3% first hit, 2% every other hit

Forward Throw: 13%
Just a move to get opponents off of you. Has decent kb.

Downward Throw: 6%
Chain grabs big and slow characters.

Upward Throw: 4%
Has the highest kb out of Sora's throws.

Backward Throw: 6%
Sets up for Fsmash or any other attack.
 
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GangsterPuff

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Thank you, now can you put in some idea about character match ups and counter picks on there? From what I know, sora doesn't do good against characters with good recovery, fast speed, or attacks.
 

Silic0n

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Character info: Lloyd

Rundown: Lloyd is a character that shines in the air since most of his aerial attacks are great for both starting and continuing combos. He also has several reliable kill moves.

Tier:B
Weight class: Medium-light

Pros and cons

Pros:

-Great combo ability
-Long ranged grab
-Great projectile(s)
-Several kill moves
-Very versatile and supports multiple play-styles and strategies
-Relatively easy to space with him
-Has a great chain-grab
-

Cons:
-Terrible recovery
-Easy to gimp
-Easy to kill
-Gets combo'd easily
-

Moveset


Ground moves

Jab: First hit 3%, Second hit 5%
These two slashes are pretty quick and can be used in combos

F-Tilt: 10%
A forward thrust that has pretty good range. It becomes lethal around 130% on heavy characters and about 100% for light characters.

D-Tilt: 9%
I haven't found many uses for this move, if anyone else can let me know.

U-Tilt: 9%
Great move for starting aerial combos; performing a U-Tilt right after dashing causes Lloyd to slide while he does the attack. This technique can be useful for spacing.

F-Smash: Uncharged 14%, Charged 20%

D-Smash: Uncharged 15%, Charged 21%

U-Smash: Uncharged 14%, Charged 20%

Aerials

N-Air: Each hit does 2%. The most damage you can do with this move is 18%
This move can be canceled with the special button or it can be canceled into Lloyd's Forward special.

F-Air: 11%
Great move for continuing combos.

B-Air: Both hits do 5%
This move great for ending juggles in a way where you can still combo. Can be followed up with a forward special.

U-Air: This is a fast move that is used mostly for juggles. Lloyd can do this move three times in one full hop.

D-Air: 24% if all hits are landed.
This move is a spike. It is good for edge-guarding.

Specials

Neutral Special(Demon Fang): 7%
Lloyd's projectile. This move is good for shutting opponents down or just pressuring them so that you can move in. If you press the special button twice, Lloyd will shoot two.

Forward Special(Sonic Thrust): 9%
This is a wonderful kill move it's like a horizontal spike.

Down Special(Grave Blade): 6%
Despite it's low damage output, this move has high vertical knock-back. It is a great combo starter when it hits, but can be difficult to land since it is pretty predictable.

Up Special(Tiger Blade): This move is a pretty bad recovery due to its short vertical coverage. However, since it is so short plus the fact that it can be canceled into any aerial attack, it is great for comboing. One combo string that utilized this feature is Up-B > N-Air > Forward-B

Grabs

Lloyd has a fast and long ranged grab.

Pummel: 2%

F-Throw: 13% This throw can be chained into itself.

D-Throw: 12%

B-Throw: 7%

U-Throw 13%

More info to come later.
 

IKEkameHAMEha

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has everyone heard of the new feature in demo v0.9b??!!
I have u guys wanna know or u all know?
I wont put it here in case of spoilers
 

GangsterPuff

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Basically he means if there is a DLC, will they be allowed and will the competitive ruleset, playstyle and tier be changed?

How will expansion characters affect the competitive community? Will they be allowed?
I don't know yet, there isn't really a competitive community to begin with, this thread doesn't really get the biggest attention, but if there are expansion characters, shouldn't they act just like DLCs from other fighting game? It really depends on the character.
 
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GangsterPuff

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Can anyone teach me whats the fastest free way to record gameplay videos and upload them to YouTube?
 

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Can anyone teach me whats the fastest free way to record gameplay videos and upload them to YouTube?
It really depends on what game you're trying to record, If you are trying to record smash flash, then I'd recommend http://www.screencast-o-matic.com . If you're trying to record something else, you could use cam studio, but I haven't tried that because I use Fraps.
 

IKEkameHAMEha

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Basically he means if there is a DLC, will they be allowed and will the competitive ruleset, playstyle and tier be changed?



I don't know yet, there isn't really a competitive community to begin with, this thread doesn't really get the biggest attention, but if there are expansion characters, shouldn't they act just like DLCs from other fighting game? It really depends on the character.
oh ok
and try not to double post
I did and im sorry
 
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Silic0n

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Is there any other information revealed? How will the online be like?
I don't think that they have revealed info on the online mode, but tonight there is a smash bros direct so you should check that out.
 

GangsterPuff

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Everyone lets ban chibi-robo
Why? Can you explain in furthur detail please?
Also, it's been so long since someone posted on this thread, and since the release of beta is just around the corner, I want to renew this thread.
 

Flambo237

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naruto has a ridiculous dancus,spike,grabs, and combo potential, yet he is c tier I don't get this
 

GangsterPuff

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naruto has a ridiculous dancus,spike,grabs, and combo potential, yet he is c tier I don't get this
It might be because you are looking at the 0.9a tier.
Honestly, I think the tier list for this game is made from solely popular opinions, a lot of the things on the list are wrong. There are obivious a lot of undiscovered potentials for every single characters in the cast, I personally think Naruto should be atleast be on the low A tiers.
 
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Flambo237

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It might be because you are looking at the 0.9a tier.
Honestly, I think the tier list for this game is made from solely popular opinions, a lot of the things on the list are wrong. There are obivious a lot of undiscovered potentials for every single characters in the cast, I personally think Naruto should be atleast be on the low A tiers.
I agree, also would it be possible to make a tier list in this forum by the community
 

Flambo237

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It might be because you are looking at the 0.9a tier.
Honestly, I think the tier list for this game is made from solely popular opinions, a lot of the things on the list are wrong. There are obivious a lot of undiscovered potentials for every single characters in the cast, I personally think Naruto should be atleast be on the low A tiers.
I agree, also would it be possible to make a tier list in this forum by the community
 
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