Super Smash Brothers Brawl : Better balanced or unbalanced?

[smash_dave]

As you all know, some of the advanced techniques used in melee have been removed, such as the wavedash, and now each character has been modified so that in can be in the same level as all the other characters, thus rendering the tier list obsolete. In a way it's nice to see people wont be using the typical Marth/Fox/Shiek characters in tournaments, but has the remodification of the game affected the fun factor or is it better this way?

 

[Kittah4]

The removal of the AT's is fine by me, the random tripping is irritating, however.

 

[SothE700k]

ugh *facepalm* There will always be tiers, and wasn't there already a thread of this?

 

[Nuvia]

It is difficult to answer a question that is based entirely on someone's opinion.

 

[guest]

Why not, you know, play the game yourself?

 

[shadydentist]

I don't think the characters have really been balanced all too much. Some bad characters got worse, and some good characters got better. But that may change.

 

[pirkid]

I lyke 1t bett3r balence'd guyz...


Seriously, why would we ever want another Marth/Fox/Falco situation?

 

[shortwanabelaker]

so far it seems a lot more balanced than melee.. we'll see what happens

 

[S2]

I've played the game and its (so far) more balanced than Melee was.


That being said, every fighting game has tiers and some characters are obviously better than others. The characters are not equal. But its more balanced than Melee.

 

[RedMage8BT]

Ink dropping makes the game more random. I like that.

 

[Doc Chronic]

from all i have seen and heard so far it appears more balanced, but until i play it its really impossible to tell

 

[Sideem Slingh]

Give the game a half a year or so, until a lot of people start reaching their characters' potentials, and then we'll know for sure if the game is balanced or not.

 

[Yuna]

The removal of advanced techs made the game more unbalanced. Before, almost every single character in the game had at least one or two moves that they could use for aerial approach because they could cancel its lag to make it at least somewhat safe. Now, certain characters still have aerial approach (like Marth). The others just suck badly and can't approach aerially at all unless they want to either get shieldgrabbed or shieldhop naired/faired/baired.

How is Ganondorf going to ever approach you aerially now, for example?

The game itself is also largely imbalanced. In Melee, the gap between the tiers existed but they weren't as extreme as now. In Brawl, your character is either Really Good to Good or Really Bad. There are almost no mediocre characters and the gaps between Really Good/Good - Mediocre - Really Bad are much larger now than in Melee.

Top vs. Bottom in Melee was nowhere near as cataclysmically "gapped" as in Brawl.

 

[joeysmash]

The removal of advanced techs made the game more unbalanced. Before, almost every single character in the game had at least one or two moves that they could use for aerial approach because they could cancel its lag to make it at least somewhat safe. Now, certain characters still have aerial approach (like Marth). The others just suck badly and can't approach aerially at all unless they want to either get shieldgrabbed or shieldhop naired/faired/baired.

How is Ganondorf going to ever approach you aerially now, for example?

The game itself is also largely imbalanced. In Melee, the gap between the tiers existed but they weren't as extreme as now. In Brawl, your character is either Really Good to Good or Really Bad. There are almost no mediocre characters and the gaps between Really Good/Good - Mediocre - Really Bad are much larger now than in Melee.

Top vs. Bottom in Melee was nowhere near as cataclysmically "gapped" as in Brawl.

you are incredible wrong. This game is now MUCH more balanced.

 

[Yuna]

you are incredible wrong. This game is now MUCH more balanced.

1) Have you played the game?
2) If you have, care to explain how the game is much more balanced now?

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

I disagree, and I've played the game.

For one thing, I don't think aerial approaches are necessary for EVERY GOD**** APPROACH. Ganondorf has a superlunge now that acts as a grab. Eats through so many attacks.

Even Ike, who's far more predictable than anyone in Melee, has the power to counteract many attacks thanks to huge hitbox, super armor, priority... The game is no longer lightning fast so prediction games actually count now.

Once again, there is no longer any need to ALWAYS APPROACH WITH AN AERIAL.

 

[NES n00b]

The game is no longer lightning fast so prediction games actually count now.

LOL, you didn't predict in Melee? XD Those darn wavedashers and l cancelers can't be predicted since they are so fast. Urggg. Totally dumbs down the gameplay.

 

[SGX]

Agreeing with Yuna on this one.

Did he say you ALWAYS need to approach with an aerial? no
Should every character have the OPTION of approaching with a decent aerial? yes

I feel like the fact that some characters can approach with aerials and not get ***** and some can't is a problem....but that's just me.

It sounds what you're saying is...Ganon should ALWAYS approach from the ground, with his forward B. Predictable much?

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Yes, they can be predicted. Doesn't do you too good if you're somebody like DK. I should say prediction makes power characters MORE viable in Brawl than Melee.

 

[Galt]

The thing about removing gameplay functionality is that you remove options. When you remove options, every individual advantage matters far more than it would have in, say, Melee. Due to the removal of things like dash-canceling, groundspeed isn't a huge concern here as it was in Melee, but at the same time, ground-based approaches are severely limited: if you approach on the ground, all your opponent has to do is shield, and he has the advantage. It's that simple. Combos, especially out of grabs, have been largely eliminated, so even characters with overall good movesets aren't at a particular advantage. You don't need good moves; you need one good move with killing power. Forget that nonsense you've read about how weakening damage and knockback over time will create hidden depth and combos; it simply isn't true. You need one spammable, powerful attack.

The defining factor in Brawl is range. Since most characters have similar attack speeds, it comes down to reach, especially now that priority has largely been eliminated. And there are definitely characters with huge range advantages: Marth, MetaKnight, Olimar, and maybe even ROB.

You guys may think the game is more balanced based on the fact that the mediocre characters all perform essentially the same against each other. That's because they've all been brought to the lowest common denominator. In that sense, you might say the game is more balanced that Melee *on average.* But then, you ignore the huge, insurmountable gap between the top tier characters and ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE ELSE. There won't be any random character counters, like Link doing well against Marth and Peach. The worse characters in this game are vastly worse. If you thought Fox and Marth were annoyingly overpowered in Melee, wait until a year from now, when everyone is playing Marth and MetaKnight. I'm telling you now: it's going to happen. It's unavoidable.

For random, casual play, I'd say the game is more balanced. But for competitive play, it's completely destroyed. There's no room for a player's individual skill to balance his character's weaknesses. You don't have the options to get around Marth's advantages.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

I hate to beat a dead horse but the game has been out for 10 weeks, and it seems like players are still thinking and playing in terms of Melee. Now, I may not have Brawl, but I've played enough competitive Melee and watched enough vids of both to realize this. It's gobsmackingly obvious that a lot of folks are still rocking things like Melee and not taking into account basic fighting game tactics like move prediction, commitment, and different approaches. No hate to competitive players, but unless one is playing at the absolute highest echelons of Melee this is not true at all. Techskill is the most important factor, especially to those who live and die by tournament vids. This is one of the reasons M2K is a golden god and why characters outside of the "Elite 4" have been winning tourneys lately. M2K can be considered the best tech player bar none-he's a human Perfect Control vid. However, the lower tier cats in the highest levels have been doing well due to the ingenuity it takes to get their characters to be useful. It's harder to see cleverness and "mindgaming" than it is to see awesome combos, SHFFLing and WDing.

On that note, SHFFLing and/or WD into aerials allow for relatively risk free pressure of shields and is the only real option for attacking if you aren't the ICs. The air game is king in Melee, to the point that the much lauded "options" are negligible in usage. You had the option of running, walking, and WDing in Melee; how many competitive players actually run without JC grabbing or CCing it. Who the hell walked? You could full jump or short hop, short hopping eclipsed the full jump except in rare circumstances. There are no lack of options in Brawl, it's just the dominant options (which for all intents and purposes were the only options) are gone. Change is scary, it'll take a while for people to adjust to Sakurai's forced balance between the technical and the mental. Once this happens(hopefully it will), the community will be better off for it.

At worst, those who are stuck on Melee will go back to Melee, while others will blaze new Brawl frontiers. Hell, SRK is mad hype for Brawl, and the traditional FG people have been at odds with Smashers for a while.

 

[Zek]

You guys think way too highly of yourselves. It is far too early for any of us to know how the game's balance is going to turn out. You've played the game? Good for you. The vast majority of us haven't, and only a massive number of people playing the game for many months can iron out all the intricacies and make long-term balance trends clear. You can make pessimistic theories all you want, but it has no basis in reality until the game comes out over here and we've all had time to work with it.

 

[darkNES386]

Iwata: Furthermore, you have to ensure the characters are well-balanced. Did you have any difficulties with this aspect of the game?

Sakurai: Sure did. It looks better, for example, if fast characters make smooth, clean landings, which in turn, distinguishes one character from another. If you make them too quick, however, they become hard to control and the overall balance suffers. That’s why I worked so hard to adjust each character’s attributes.

Iwata: By the way, about how many different attributes does each character possess?

Sakurai: Probably more than I can count. (laughs) I would roughly say that it’s somewhere in the hundreds.


Iwata: That means, for each character, you’re assigning values to hundreds of attributes to both prevent overwhelming advantages and preserve individual strengths. Sounds like incredibly hard work.

Sakurai: All part of the job I suppose. (laughs)

Iwata: And one you can’t leave to anyone else.

Sakurai: Right.

You make the call, people.

http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/ssbb/vol7_page2.jsp

 

[Losnar]

Ink dropping makes the game more random. I like that.

Why is tripping called ink dropping here? That's stupid.

 

[darkNES386]

It's because of the player who discovered it... something to do with his name... it was lame in my opinion. I think we're trying to call it slipping now.

 

[da K.I.D.]

if thats how you feel than my kirby and sonic will meet your marth and metaknight on wi-fi on the 10th of march, in june, next year and 3 years from now and we'll see how well that idea holds up

 

[da K.I.D.]

btw that was aimed at galt

 

[darkNES386]

I don't think this game was dumbed down at all.... The fact that hit percentage AND KNOCKBACK weaken with repeating patterns in your moveset means that you need to open your mind and use your entire moveset with on the spot improvisation depending on whether or not certain moves connect. This game is going to seperate the pros from the newbies and noobs in a ridiculous way. Players are goign to be stunned wondering why their moves aren't as strong as their opponents when they keep trying to use the same good attacks over and over again.

@Da K.I.D. : are you talking to the original poster?

 

[SynikaL]

has the remodification of the game affected the fun factor or is it better this way?

Just wanna answer this specifically:

Yes. I think Brawl is boring as h3ll -- not only in relation to Melee, but fighting games in general. It's boring to watch, it's even more boring to play - -I don't even watch the videos anymore.

Due to its restrictive nature, the game simply lacks the overall sensation of discovery that a new fighting game should inspire. I'm usually somewhat excited to play the game every time I head down to Hollywood FL, hoping to try new things, and get an idea of how the game will eventually develop, only to quickly become bored when half the things I'm looking to try become grounded by the game's confining architecture.

People who truly love Smash in general or haven't played any other fighting seriously will be the ones who love Brawl the most. Enthusiasm will solace the former and a lack of context the latter. That's my opinion.

Carry on with the pointless batting of perspective-less opinions.


-Kimosabae
(I will not respond to subsequent flames)

 

[SETHMASTEROFPKMN]

So far, the game seems more balanced. From what I've seen, all of the characters are on a (almost) level playing field. Bowser can beat Fox and Marth. I've seen it. But, this is waay to early to make assumption. Wait until, say, the end of summer, when everyone has had a good two months to waste away with a controller in their hands nonstop, then check out the online scene (or tournament, if they have one by then), and we'll see how things roll.

 

[ROFLs]

It's more equal now. Not one character is good against the other.

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

The game is better balanced in that no one character truly stands out as being a suck-fest (maybe Yoshi, but people have begun to prove that wrong).

I truly think that there is a check and balances system in play this time around. Not enough to abolish a tier system, but maybe the future tiers will be a little bit less definitive.

 

[Frodnonag]

. Indeed

 

[Mama]

[/ DEADHORSE] Whip [DEADHORSE]

 

[retro gamer 6]

I lyke 1t bett3r balence'd guyz...


Seriously, why would we ever want another Marth/Fox/Falco situation?

no we wouldn't. brawl fixed that, sort of. so hopefully we have no broken characters either. brawl is more balanced in my opinion.

 

[goodkid]

It seems more balanced, but it is far too early to tell.

 

[LinkGadra]

Too soon to tell. Give it at least six months before trying to answer this one.

 

[Mama]

It seems more balanced, but it is far too early to tell.

That and tier lists are always present in fighting games and there really is no such thing as a perfectly balanced game.

 

[Super Drybones]

Too soon to tell. Give it at least six months before trying to answer this one.

by then we will have over 9000 tier lists that the writers don't realize don't matter
I will repeat tier lists arn't made here they are made in the back room

 

[NES n00b]

That and tier lists are always present in fighting games and there really is no such thing as a perfectly balanced game.

It is called Brawl with Smash Balls on duh. Tier lists r glitches and Sakurai didn't want that so he balanced characters using multicolor floating balls.