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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

ThoughtfulWanderer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Messages
1,054
Well, yeah, cooldown would be obvious. XD Maybe your can only use each of Isaac's three geomancy specials once each at a time, until a little bit after they vanish.

Place your stage alterations poorly, and you're in for a world of hurt, that kind of thing.
Maybe you've trapped yourself thinking that your opponent will be one side of FD, but they jumped over at the last second and cornered you behind your own wall at the ledge. Once they're set up, they cannot be replaced until you or your opponent destroys them, and that situation would really cause a "world of hurt".
 

KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
Maybe you've trapped yourself thinking that your opponent will be one side of FD, but they jumped over at the last second and cornered you behind your own wall at the ledge. Once they're set up, they cannot be replaced until you or your opponent destroys them, and that situation would really cause a "world of hurt".
I was thinking "they cannot be replaced until you or your opponent destroys them, or they go away by themselves after x seconds".
 

ThoughtfulWanderer

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,054
I was thinking "they cannot be replaced until you or your opponent destroys them, or they go away by themselves after x seconds".
Yeah, that would be a given since Villager's tree, Snake's C4, and a majority of items are like this. I should've made that clear.

I wonder if Sakurai ever thought of a mechanic like this for Isaac. I know he's big on having characters carry not just a unique moveset, but also a unique mechanic if Smash 4 is any indication. Something like that could push him over the fence on adding Isaac versus leaving him out if selectivity and being "realizable" are big factors for the top ballot winners.
 

KMDP

Smash Legend
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Messages
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Yeah, that would be a given since Villager's tree, Snake's C4, and a majority of items are like this. I should've made that clear.
I had a feeling but erred on the side of caution. :laugh:
I wonder if Sakurai ever thought of a mechanic like this for Isaac. I know he's big on having characters carry not just a unique moveset, but also a unique mechanic if Smash 4 is any indication. Something like that could push him over the fence on adding Isaac versus leaving him out if selectivity and being "realizable" are big factors for the top ballot winners.
I mean, it's kind of an easy concept to come up with for a Geomancer (well, not that easy, but I'd fully expect Sakurai to be able to come up with the concept), it might be why Sakurai has held him back so long, he wanted to do Isaac that way but the systems until now weren't able to handle it (well, except the Wii U, but the 3DS saw to that).
We'll have to wait and see.
 

ThoughtfulWanderer

Smash Lord
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Messages
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I mean, it's kind of an easy concept to come up with for a Geomancer (well, not that easy, but I'd fully expect Sakurai to be able to come up with the concept), it might be why Sakurai has held him back so long, he wanted to do Isaac that way but the systems until now weren't able to handle it (well, except the Wii U, but the 3DS saw to that).
We'll have to wait and see.
Oh no, this is getting my hopes up too much. Sakurai wanted to include Isaac back in 4, hence why his AT is gone, but an Ice Climbers/Chorus Kids/probably Inkling situation occurred. Sakurai decided it was best to keep him out until future use (which was hopefully vindicated by ballot placement), hence why's he disappeared without a trace aside from one new song. Rhythm Heaven was like this too when it gained two songs on Miiverse!

It all makes sense but I've got to be getting too ahead of myself, right?
 

KMDP

Smash Legend
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Messages
12,199
Oh no, this is getting my hopes up too much. Sakurai wanted to include Isaac back in 4, hence why his AT is gone, but an Ice Climbers/Chorus Kids/probably Inkling situation occurred. Sakurai decided it was best to keep him out until future use (which was hopefully vindicated by ballot placement), hence why's he disappeared without a trace aside from one new song. Rhythm Heaven was like this too when it gained two songs on Miiverse!

It all makes sense but I've got to be getting too ahead of myself, right?
Well, just so long as you always remember your Tin-foil Hat, it's as important to Speculation as a Towel is to Space Travel.
 

lanky_gunner

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That's a solid point, especially since his AT was missing in the last game. Which I found odd anyway, his AT wasn't elaborate in any way to exclude him from the game. Maybe he was legitimately planned to appear?
 

RandomAce

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2017
Messages
2,986
That's a solid point, especially since his AT was missing in the last game. Which I found odd anyway, his AT wasn't elaborate in any way to exclude him from the game. Maybe he was legitimately planned to appear?
I always though of this possibility. Seeing how Dark Dawn was also released during the ripe time when Sakurai was selecting newcomers.

He did say that there were characters that he planned to include in Smash 4 but weren’t due to time contrainsts. Maybe Isaac was one them? Maybe Isa Jo as well because his game also released in the right time as well but wasn’t included for the same reason?

I need my tin-foil hat!
 
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Falgor

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Well, in Spain/latinoamerican she was chosen twice as the most probably newcomer/most wanted in one of the most seen/popular websites:
Poll of April: http://www.nintenderos.com/2015/05/...l-estos-son-vuestros-candidatos-a-smash-bros/
Poll of December: http://www.nintenderos.com/2015/12/...re-la-presentacion-final-de-super-smash-bros/
Considering we speak the same language, I can see a bunch of votes from the South America countries and Mexico going to Europe, for example.

Btw, trying to be the more objective possible, which were the most discussed characters in the french websites? Do you have some important polls that some webs organizised in that time?
I could try to search the old polls, but honestly their results (characters featured very often) were very similar to the ones we could see here or on Reddit, back then (things might have changed recently, I've not lurked on French/European sites yet, since Ultimate's reveal).

That's why I always found these specific polls' results frankly weird compared to what we usually get pretty much everywhere else. Like, what kind of method did they even use? Some universes are bunched together and it makes no sense (Kirby/Metroid/Sonic???), they have different totals that add to more than 100%... And even then, Bayonetta's first place is a slim first place. Their visual on the 2nd poll is also a bit misleading since people could believe Bayonetta got more than 10k votes just for her when it was the total of votes all characters included.


Isaac's good results do make some sense since Golden Sun is very popular in Spain and Latin America, and while I could totally believe Bayonetta might be as popular (and also on Tumblr as you mentioned), ultimately the two polls were made on the exact same site (which is apparently not specialized on Smash, this does matter a little bit sometimes, as Smash Bros focused communities instinctively know relatively better what works and what doesn't) and I have no idea if it's a big site. Finally, I personally tend to stay really cautious because one poll can very well be rigged by bots, we had examples of that on Reddit once if I remember correctly, and it is hard to check.

I'd also find it quite strange if Nintendo/Sakurai/whoever managed the results mixed together Latin America and Europe, but it is a possibility.
I used a lot of words specifically to keep a discourse as balanced and rational as possible. :drshrug:
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
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Unfortunately unless Isaac becomes playable in the future and Sakurai decides to wax poetic about his past history in Smash, it seems unlikely we'll ever know for sure why he was cut as an AT.

Not knowing is just the worst, especially when it could be as noteworthy as because he was planned, or as trivial as because Sakurai just didn't bother.
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

Smash Lord
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Weyard
I want to ask you guys, if Isaac gets in as a playable fighter and you can choose one assist trophy from the Golden Sun series who would it be? I'd go with Jenna using the psynergy 'Fume'
 

Billybae10K

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Messages
602
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I want to ask you guys, if Isaac gets in as a playable fighter and you can choose one assist trophy from the Golden Sun series who would it be? I'd go with Jenna using the psynergy 'Fume'
This may be a weird choice, but I'd like to see Dulluhan or Star Magician using their signature moves. Mainly because party characters are an easy choice and I wanted to pick something people wouldn't say. Perhaps Star Magician could have different effects depending on the ball used.
 

airConditioner

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SMCU Express
I just had a stupid idea where Ivan or Sheba could be an assist using Reveal to create additional platforms

Also Alex should be a story mode boss
 

DjinnandTonic

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It would totally be one of the Venus Djinni itself as an Assist Trophy. Possible one of the other elemental Djinni, but that seems much more likely (and Smash-like?) than another player-character.
 

ThoughtfulWanderer

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Messages
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I just had a stupid idea where Ivan or Sheba could be an assist using Reveal to create additional platforms

Also Alex should be a story mode boss
I'd love if Ivan/Sheba could also use Mind Read to detect the input of the opponent right as they make it (similar to how higher level A.I. in Smash do) and cause a brief pause in time where they read it out to the user so they can react accordingly to moves they couldn't otherwise. It'd have shades of Shulk's visions from Xenoblade.
 
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N3ON

Gone Exploring
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I would say Alex as the AT due to relevance and diversity. He's important and recurring but not another Venus adept.

Of course the other option is Isaac gets in, but doesn't use Move, and a new AT is swapped in. Probably Felix, as Matthew could end up an alt.
 

Skyblade12

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Alex is a tailor made Assist Trophy. One fighting move we see him use in the games. He appears, water starts to surge beneath the opponent, and then a column of water shoots them off screen for a guaranteed KO off the top of the screen. The water doesn’t follow you, so it’s easy to avoid if you just stay moving. But similarly, if you (or someone else besides the person who called Alex) moves into it while it’s charging, it will hit you. So it’s very powerful on hectic FFAs and cramped stages (and with huge vertical potential would be great on places like Moray Towers).

Jenna should get in as her own fighter with Fume and Cycle Beam, but she can be an AT until that happens.
 

Sabrewulf238

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Oct 17, 2007
Messages
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Ireland
I had my first smash related dream for this game last night.

It was a really lazy trailer revealing a very short and stubby Rex (no Pyra) as playable and Isaac was a mii costume. (also Lucina got a mii costume for some reason....
 
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Isaac: Venus Adept

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I was watching the Pocket Rumble trailer on Nintendo's channel and this character instantly reminded me of Isaac with his utility hand psynergy. What do you guys think of Isaac using his hand psynergy offensively like this
 

Billybae10K

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I had my first smash related dream for this game last night.

It was a really lazy trailer revealing a very short and stubby Rex (no Pyra) as playable and Isaac was a mii costume. (also Lucina got a mii costume for some reason....
The darkest timeline right there.
 

Cos.

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
302
Location
Switzerland
I've been an avid Isaac supporter since before Brawl.

I think this might have been mentioned to some degree (but I'm not sure if it was in this thread):
If you look up smash bros in connection with a character name in google trends and do character name comparisons you can get some interesting results:

As an example a link to a comparison between "isaac" and "king k rool" looking at world wide results for the past 5 years:
google trends comparison

You can see a spike in search results for both characters around the announcement time of the poll and another spike somewhere around the time King K Rool was announced as a Mii costume.

It's fun to test this with other character names.
Sadly, I didn't find out how to get absolute search numbers... so the question of the total pool size of queries is still unclear.

Some of the names I've seen with comparable search results and spike times are:
Bayonetta, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Banjo Kazooie, Waluigi, Simon, Geno
(Ashley has a weird 1 year (edited here :/ ) pre-spike :/ )
These are only some examples I checked out. If some one can relate these to absolute numbers, that would be nice.
Hey, but at least according to google searches, Isaac might have fared okay at the ballot...
(But yeah... hope is a dangerous thing...)
 
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True Blue Warrior

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Updated support list.

  1. _Sheik
  2. 1/128
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  4. ☆Jisatsu☆
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  32. Backgammon
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  48. Browny
  49. Buddy002
  50. Bunny8093
  51. BUnit
  52. Burruni
  53. Calane
  54. CactusBlah
  55. candyissweet
  56. Capita
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  141. isaac3000
  142. Isaac: Venus Adept
  143. IvanQuote
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  149. Just a random scrub
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  174. legendofrob1
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  185. Lucanic
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  214. Mythzotick
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  216. MysticKnives
  217. N3ON
  218. Nauzgo
  219. Neo Zero
  220. Niala
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  223. Nintendokusou
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  225. NonSpecificGuy
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  319. ThatShadowLink
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  321. The One Who Wrote This
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  365. ZarroTsu
  366. ZeldaMaster
  367. ZestyÑ
  368. Zulyar
  369. Zuppo
 

Skyblade12

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Last edited:

Billybae10K

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Well, if we’re looking at those search trends...

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=smash bros king k rool,smash bros isaac,Isaac Golden Sun

Adding “Isaac Golden Sun” to the list shows a more prominent trend.

But then just add “King K. Rool” and Isaac gets crushed.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=smash bros king k rool,smash bros isaac,Isaac Golden Sun,/g/122mqnh2
It should be worth noting that King K. Rool is a much more unique and easy to search name. Isaac is a lot more common and obviously there's other languages to consider as well when it comes to localized names for Isaac. Google Trends isn't really the best indicator in that sense.
 

Hydewell

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 13, 2014
Messages
144
I could try to search the old polls, but honestly their results (characters featured very often) were very similar to the ones we could see here or on Reddit, back then (things might have changed recently, I've not lurked on French/European sites yet, since Ultimate's reveal).

That's why I always found these specific polls' results frankly weird compared to what we usually get pretty much everywhere else. Like, what kind of method did they even use? Some universes are bunched together and it makes no sense (Kirby/Metroid/Sonic???), they have different totals that add to more than 100%... And even then, Bayonetta's first place is a slim first place. Their visual on the 2nd poll is also a bit misleading since people could believe Bayonetta got more than 10k votes just for her when it was the total of votes all characters included.

Isaac's good results do make some sense since Golden Sun is very popular in Spain and Latin America, and while I could totally believe Bayonetta might be as popular (and also on Tumblr as you mentioned), ultimately the two polls were made on the exact same site (which is apparently not specialized on Smash, this does matter a little bit sometimes, as Smash Bros focused communities instinctively know relatively better what works and what doesn't) and I have no idea if it's a big site. Finally, I personally tend to stay really cautious because one poll can very well be rigged by bots, we had examples of that on Reddit once if I remember correctly, and it is hard to check.

I'd also find it quite strange if Nintendo/Sakurai/whoever managed the results mixed together Latin America and Europe, but it is a possibility.
I used a lot of words specifically to keep a discourse as balanced and rational as possible. :drshrug:
As I stated before, Nintenderos is a big portal who only focus on Nintendo and is crowded by casuals, so it's a important thing to have a "good results" because we know what they can vote, at least for the spanish part (one of the big cons of Isaac that some people said is he was only known in the Smash sites).

About the first poll, they just wanted to group some franchises to facilitize the search/candidates I guess. To vote, as I could see, you needed to registrate and vote in the website, and, in case you character wasn't in the list, you needed to say it in the thread (http://www.nintenderos.com/2015/04/...uieres-ver-como-luchador-en-super-smash-bros/ ). Obviously, it could happen some people had two or more accounts, but well, the same happened in the poll when some people voted using different devices and networks.

About the second one, in the picture they said the total amounts of votes, but yeah, it's misleading if you see it with Bayonetta. But well, the website is very click-baiting, so it isn't strange that they did that in purpose.

And I was refering some people could vote in the Spanish poll and the Latinoamerican poll. For example, I remember some guys of King K Rool campaign voted in the japanese poll just for increase their chances and representation of K.Rool in Japan. Maybe Nintendo protected the website not counting the votes which came from other countries, but, well, as you said, it's a possibility.

I want to ask you guys, if Isaac gets in as a playable fighter and you can choose one assist trophy from the Golden Sun series who would it be? I'd go with Jenna using the psynergy 'Fume'
I would choose the four Djinns and only one of them would stay in the stage. The venus Djinn would give the invocator more defense, the mercury one would restore the health, the jupiter one would increase the speed and the jump and the mars one the attack. Yeah, I'm a simple man.

Well, if we’re looking at those search trends...

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=smash bros king k rool,smash bros isaac,Isaac Golden Sun

Adding “Isaac Golden Sun” to the list shows a more prominent trend.

But then just add “King K. Rool” and Isaac gets crushed.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=smash bros king k rool,smash bros isaac,Isaac Golden Sun,/g/122mqnh2
If you search isaac alone it destroys King K Rool :p /jk
 
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Cos.

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Well, if we’re looking at those search trends...

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=smash bros king k rool,smash bros isaac,Isaac Golden Sun

Adding “Isaac Golden Sun” to the list shows a more prominent trend.

But then just add “King K. Rool” and Isaac gets crushed.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=smash bros king k rool,smash bros isaac,Isaac Golden Sun,/g/122mqnh2
That's fair enough, and a useful addition to all comparisons, so thanks for that. (I didn't want to focus on Isaac and King K. Rool... they were just examples :) ) Still, it is nice to put everything into some perspective. And it is interesting to note that the searches for King K. Rool are still noticeable when adding smash bros ballot to the search comparison.
google trends comparison

I'd guess that most people who voted on the ballot google smash bros ballot at some point... so that should give a ball park estimate of queries related to characters which might have been submitted to the ballot.

It's true that we won't get conclusive results using google trends, but it does provide interesting insights into relationships between different search queries. Plus, it's nice to see that Isaac didn't favor too badly in a crude Google Trends' estimate either ;)

PS: smash bros Goku beats smash bros isaac :D
 
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NoOtherPersona

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I had my first smash related dream for this game last night.

It was a really lazy trailer revealing a very short and stubby Rex (no Pyra) as playable and Isaac was a mii costume. (also Lucina got a mii costume for some reason....
So a nightmare?
 

Skyblade12

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We should also remember that Isaac isn't Isaac everywhere. If you search "Hans Golden Sun", you'll get a much smaller list of results... And if you check the geographical layout, they're all from Spain. So it's unfortunately really hard to get an accurate readout.
 

NoOtherPersona

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Skyblade12

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I think everyone who says Simon is basically piggybacking of Verglebergle. He never seemed like a huge priority character, wasn't topping any polls... But I would not object to a roster with those three newcomers.

The part of that leak that kills it for me is two FE characters being based off of pre-existing characters. Chrom based on Roy (not Ike), and...Soren based on Robin? Soren can't even wield a sword!
 

NoOtherPersona

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I think everyone who says Simon is basically piggybacking of Verglebergle. He never seemed like a huge priority character, wasn't topping any polls... But I would not object to a roster with those three newcomers.

The part of that leak that kills it for me is two FE characters being based off of pre-existing characters. Chrom based on Roy (not Ike), and...Soren based on Robin? Soren can't even wield a sword!
I feel most want simon to fill out the captain n trio which i think would be a great reunion and that he's unique since he doesn't use a sword or any other weapon that's in Smash also I only assume chrom would be Roy instead of Ike is because since Lucina plays like Marth I don't know I'm just reaching at this point
 
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D

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Comic of the Day:


Have you learned nothing from your time in Tolbi, Mia? Just cheat and knock down the coin with Psynergy or something.
 
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